Who has right of way here?

ballooba

As far as I know from my reading of the ROTR, the driver who arrives at the junction first has right of way.

mike65

I think they should draw lots (or pistols!)

Mike.

cormie

ballooba wrote:

As far as I know from my reading of the ROTR, the driver who arrives at the junction first has right of way.

But were assuming everyone arrived at the same time:o

So it's basically down to whoever breaks the law first and goes ahead of the person to their right. Imagine that.

Seanie M

Assuming everyone arrived at the same time, the scenario should be treated as if it were at a roundabout, which is almost an identical scenario.

ballooba

If all four cars arrive at exactly the same time, you should stop your car and pray. The three Horsepowermen of the apocolypse are probably driving the other three cars. it says so in the bible.

prospect

Four roads of equal importance would never meet like that.
Two of the roads will always have a stop line or sign, where you come to a halt and wait until it is safe to proceed, this prevents the situation in your second picture occuring.
In your first picture, assuming there is no traffic going straight inside either of the cars stopped on the central line, both cars can proceed at the same time, turning in front of each other. Then the cars on the left'right road would proceed in the same manner.

Litcagral

prospect wrote:

Four roads of equal importance would never meet like that.
Two of the roads will always have a stop line or sign, where you come to a halt and wait until it is safe to proceed, this prevents the situation in your second picture occuring.QUOTE]




There are many examples of junctions like this in rural ireland - four roads of equal importance - no signage/markings etc. If there wasn't this thread wouldn't exist and the Rules of the Road booklet wouldn't need to provide advice on the matter.

(Co Donegal has many such junctions and locals users usually have their own system of deciding who informally has right of way)

69 mustang

ballooba wrote:

As far as I know from my reading of the ROTR, the driver who arrives at the junction first has right of way.

This ones spot on its a system used in America a lot as equal importance cross roads and stop signs are as common as roundabouts and half abouts here.:)

Litcagral

69 mustang wrote:

This ones spot on its a system used in America a lot as equal importance cross roads and stop signs are as common as roundabouts and half abouts here.:)

Yes but we are referring to a situation where all four vehicles arrive together on each road. Otherwise there would be no problem.

bungeecork

My 2 cents...

Picture 1 Scenario 1: North/south cars have right of way and can "hook around" each other and easily turn right. The east/west cars have to wait until the junction is clear and then could hook around each other too.

Picture 1 Scenario 2: As Picture 1 Scenario 1

Picture 2: Boy racers have priority, followed by general a55holes, followed by safe drives with low insurance premiums.

Litcagral

bungeecork wrote:

My 2 cents...

Picture 1 Scenario 1: North/south cars have right of way and can "hook around" each other and easily turn right. The east/west cars have to wait until the junction is clear and then could hook around each other too.
QUOTE]


How could the N/S cars have right of way? The four roads are of EQUAL importance and a vehicle on each road would have to come to a stop at the junction. Disregard the picture - it's not a proper representation of the senario.

toffeapple

Who evers driving a jeep or a van! at least they probably think so.....

ballooba

I'd like to see the copy of the Rules of The Road which mentions "hooking around" cars.

toffeapple

If your aunt had balls would she be your uncle???

prospect

Litcagral wrote:

There are many examples of junctions like this in rural ireland - four roads of equal importance - no signage/markings etc. If there wasn't this thread wouldn't exist and the Rules of the Road booklet wouldn't need to provide advice on the matter.

(Co Donegal has many such junctions and locals users usually have their own system of deciding who informally has right of way)

I am not doubting you, or calling you a liar. But in 11 years of driving, I personally have never come accross a junction with 4 roads of equal importance, there has always been one of the following:

1. A roundabout
2. Traffic lights
3. Staggered Junction
4. A yield sign
5. A stop line
6. A sign in advance of the junction indicating your road priority, i.e. Skinny black line or Thick black line.

Maybe the junctions you refer to have had the signs vandalised, or they are no buried in the hedging, which is not uncommon. Or maybe the stop line is worn away, covered in muck or black from tyre rubber.

Victor

Of course, one has to consider what direction each is going - vehicles travelling straight on have right of way over vehicles that are turning, with right-turning vehicles having hte least right of way.

Litcagral wrote:

the roads are very minor ones being little more that the width of a car.

In that case, nobody can proceed, because the road isn't wide enough to pass.

cormie wrote:

So it's basically down to whoever breaks the law first

No he's "taking command of the junction".

bungeecork

Litcagral wrote:

N/S cars have right of way? The four roads are of EQUAL importance (...) Disregard the picture - it's not a proper representation of the senario.

My comments were based on Picture 1, where the north/south cars are already in the junction, unlike the east/west cars

Litcagral

Victor wrote:

Of course, one has to consider what direction each is going - vehicles travelling straight on have right of way over vehicles that are turning, with right-turning vehicles having hte least right of way.In that case, nobody can proceed, because the road isn't wide enough to pass.
No he's "taking command of the junction".

Victor, if the four roads are of equal importance, one cannot go straight on. What would happen if the traffic going E/W decided to go straight on and the traffic travelling N/S also decided to go straight on. Remember, all roads are of equal importance.

Quote prospect "I am not doubting you, or calling you a liar. But in 11 years of driving, I personally have never come accross a junction with 4 roads of equal importance, there has always been one of the following:" Quote.


There is a sign on ROTR - a black cross on a yellow background with all lines of equal width. Again if these junctions didn't exist, why would ROTR give advice on them. They are not commom but they do exist. Maybe someone living in rural Co Donegal would support me on this - there are a few in the Ramelton area.

colm_mcm

what are the chances of four cars meeting at the same time at a junction where all roads are equally imoprtant in donegal?

Litcagral

colm_mcm wrote:

what are the chances of four cars meeting at the same time at a junction where all roads are equally imoprtant in donegal?

Yes, its not very likely as the roads I'm referring to are very minor often with grass in the centre. They are usually very quiet hence the absence of signage/road markings- but it is theoretically possible for four vehicles to meet at the same time. My brother has been wondering about this matter for years!

69 mustang

Litcagral wrote:

Yes but we are referring to a situation where all four vehicles arrive together on each road. Otherwise there would be no problem.

Well if that was the case all of them were in the wrong as they all should of stopped if the crossing roads were of equal importance with or with out a sign post or broken lights.:)

Litcagral

69 mustang wrote:

Well if that was the case all of them were in the wrong as they all should of stopped if the crossing roads were of equal importance with or with out a sign post or broken lights.:)

Yes that's the whole point. All four vehicles are stopped on their respective roads - but who goes into the junction first. According to the ROTR one must yield to the driver on one's right. But all these drivers will have someone on their right - therefore who goes first? (I realise it's quite an unlikely situation but it's possible).


Why is this so difficult for people to grasp????

colm_mcm

but does anyone care anymore?

69 mustang

Litcagral wrote:

Why is this so difficult for people to grasp????

That's what I thought when I read your post.

We know that type of road exists but the 1 in a million chance of each car coming to a complete stop is the point so first car to the line/edge of road goes first. As the road in question sounds like it would be hard pushed to see 4 cars in a day let alone at the same time to the second.

Or in the million option. The person who didn't shiv themselves or cut out from the near miss goes first leaving only 3 cars:)

bungeecork

Litcagral wrote:

(..) Why is this so difficult for people to grasp???? (..)

!

Litcagral

colm_mcm wrote:

but does anyone care anymore?

Yes its getting boring! Who started this thread anyway? I will try not to think about it the next time I arrive at one of these junctions.:):):)

colm_mcm

that's if you can find one!

Litcagral

colm_mcm wrote:

that's if you can find one!

There's several near my Granny's house. That's why it has interested me.

colm_mcm

you better be careful so

cormie

Litcagral wrote:

Who started this thread anyway?

I did:o

And without having to read through everything I haven't read yet, has there been a definite answer to this yet?