Poor Road Signage Pictures

murphaph

spacetweek wrote:

I think it's just whatever you're more used to seeing. Personally I thought the Irish sign was easier to understand. Some of the criticisms I'm seeing here of Irish signage (e.g. the gap being missing on the roundabout icon) seem very unimportant to me.

oftentimes the compulsory turn left sign is missing too, so ABSOLUTELY nothing to prevent a driver turing right at the entrance to a roundabout! The law is all about DETAIL.

The 'gap' it what tells you it's a roundabout! otherwise it's a junction that splits both ways. The UK TSRGD is what all their signs are based on and none are erected unless they comply with it, a legal document.

daymobrew

Many signs are made by Rennicks (who are proud to display the bad M50 south signs). Surely some of the blame lies with them, or do they tell those ordering the signs that they are wrong and get overruled?
We should ask them. And the UK company.

Edit: Groan. On the Traffic Signs Quotation page you can order those invalid pedestrian/cycle track signs.
Edit: Note the tag line - Making Irelands Roads Safer (note the lack of apostrophe in "Irelands").

daymobrew

I asked Rennicks if they highlight or reject invalid signage requests from NRA or local authorities. Unfortunately they don't (quote: it's not the manufacturer's responsibility) but they will point out obvious mistakes.
The reply admitted that there are often design errors made by consulting engineers (subcontracted by civil engineers), but again, its not our responsibility to check designs :rolleyes:

The reply finished with a glimmer of hope. Apparently the NRA is about to launch a programme to replace thousands of directional signs. This 3-4 year programme should correct many mistakes and design errors. I replied saying that Rennicks could have avoided this (probably costly) programme if they had stood up and taken some responsibility.

murphaph

Rennicks knew they'd be making money again on all those signs, why would they say no. But the question is, why don't our public servants who have wasted millions on shoddy signs get reprimanded?

murphaph

murphaph wrote:

Rennicks knew they'd be making money again on all those signs, why would they say no. But the question is, why don't our public servants who have wasted millions on shoddy signs get reprimanded?

Simple, they have probably moved to another department/setion by the time their mistakes have been noticed!

As an earlier poster stated in the UK, signs are validated before being made so mistakes are rare.

BrianD

daymobrew wrote:

The reply finished with a glimmer of hope. Apparently the NRA is about to launch a programme to replace thousands of directional signs. This 3-4 year programme should correct many mistakes and design errors. I replied saying that Rennicks could have avoided this (probably costly) programme if they had stood up and taken some responsibility.

It would be interesting to know if the NRA have a specification as to how these signs should be redesigned.

After all, if they allowed the M50/N7/N2 gantry signs to go up that were in clear contravention of DoE guidelines, how can they be trusted to get it right this time?

daymobrew

BrianD wrote:

It would be interesting to know if the NRA have a specification as to how these signs should be redesigned.

After all, if they allowed the M50/N7/N2 gantry signs to go up that were in clear contravention of DoE guidelines, how can they be trusted to get it right this time?

I plan to write to Fred Barry CEO and ask these questions.
Can someone please tell me what DoE guidelines were contravened? I'd like to have some facts mixed in with my rant.

murphaph

Well for a start all roads authorities are obliged by law to use the TSM as a guide in designing their signs. Clearly many sign 'designers' have never seen a copy!

Carawaystick

The NRA just got back to me. They're gonna review the signage at the M4/M6 junction, where there's advance signage for Kinnegad (2km and 1km) but only 500m notice of the motorway split and even then the M6 sign is wrong.

They don't seem to think there's anything wrong with the poor signage where the N6 Dual carriageway ends before Kilbeggan.

RainyDay

murphaph wrote:

But the question is, why don't our public servants who have wasted millions on shoddy signs get reprimanded?

Maybe because nobody has every made a formal complaint? Why don't you check out the complaints procedure for the relevant local authority and submit a formal complaint?

murphaph

RainyDay wrote:

Maybe because nobody has every made a formal complaint? Why don't you check out the complaints procedure for the relevant local authority and submit a formal complaint?

I have formally complained to my local authority, Fingal on more than one occasion. They don't even write back in many instances.

daymobrew

murphaph wrote:

I have formally complained to my local authority, Fingal on more than one occasion. They don't even write back in many instances.

So have I, to Fingal. You have to really hassle them to get back to you. They wear you down and eventually you give up.

Traffic wrote:

The prunning of the trees on that side of Custom House Quay would be the responsibility of the Docklands Authorithy

DCC Parks Department confirmed that the DDDA are responsible for the tree. Joe Crosbie at DDDA is reluctant to remove the tree, preferring instead for DCC Traffic section to relocate the sign. To follow up with DCC Traffic, try Dave Traynor or Ray Duffy both Traffic officers @ 222-2591.

I'd also reported tree branches obscuring a traffic light on Navan Road at Ashtown Grove. DCC Parks replied saying they'd been removed (though I haven't passed that way since then to confirm).

It's little 'wins' like this that slightly restore my faith in the local authorities, though I'm sure it'll be quickly eroded elsewhere.
Hey, Waterways Ireland (who I dislike to putting up tons of annoying swing gates on the Royal Canal towpaths), appreciated being told of broken glass, a missing life ring and an open lock this morning.

Zoney

So much in this country is reactive rather than proactive, that it's as well for people to point out issues needing attention to public authorities, politicians, private companies, etc. They are actually quite often acted on, or at least explanation given, albeit reluctantly and only because you've contacted them. The drawback is that it shouldn't be the general public's job to monitor, for example, traffic sign placement.

Still, I'm getting rather tempted to make some attempt at informing Limerick City Council and County Council and/or the ESB about two dozen or so particular failed streetlamps at various points along major routes in the city - some have been out for months. However, I can't quite bring myself to deliberately noting the specific locations/numbers of the outages next time I'm passing them, and then writing a proper email or letter.

BrianD

daymobrew wrote:

I plan to write to Fred Barry CEO and ask these questions.
Can someone please tell me what DoE guidelines were contravened? I'd like to have some facts mixed in with my rant.

I do recall a posting on this board where somebody had a link to the guidelines. The signage was very similar in design to that of the U.K.

Victor

Re-used sign and wobbly wheels.

AlekSmart

Which company is the main mover in Fingerpost Sign Manufacture and supply ?
Which company in the largest mover and shaker in the general signpost and aluminum pole sector ?.......The same criteria for Traffic Signals etc....

Now the detective work begins.....Companies Office....Shareholders Register.....Maiden Names.....Irish Names...Sons and Daughters in Graduate positions etc etc.....It just doesnt get any better or worse I reckon...........

Lot of posts referring to dis an dat in d`UK ....which leads me to wonder what all the 1916 stuff actually achieved except to set up the Free State Fingerpost Company......:mad:

murphaph

The most ridiculous thing is that Rennicks (our largest signmaker by far) operates quite successfully in the UK. Does anyone think they let shoddy signs out to UK customers on such a regular basis as they do to irish roads authorities? :rolleyes:

jrar

Weren't Rennicks mentioned in passing at one of the many tribunals in relation to someone being investigated to whom they made a political donation(s).

I'm not inferring anything illegal or dishonest by Rennicks here, just linking the name to AlekSmart's line of thought !

murphaph

murphaph wrote:

The most ridiculous thing is that Rennicks (our largest signmaker by far) operates quite successfully in the UK. Does anyone think they let shoddy signs out to UK customers on such a regular basis as they do to irish roads authorities? :rolleyes:

I would imagine that the UK customers order precisely the correct sign for the job in the first place as they must follow the rules!

But having said that, I do know of a couple of spelling mistakes that had to be corrrected afterwards & a few warning signs that had to be replaced as they gave the distances to the hazzard in metres ( there is an "anti-metrification" group active in the UK) and needed to be in yards, I believe that UK signs CAN be metric (in line with metricification that appears to be postponed indefinately) but legally should be imperial.

spacetweek

Deleted User wrote:

But having said that, I do know of a couple of spelling mistakes that had to be corrrected afterwards & a few warning signs that had to be replaced as they gave the distances to the hazzard in metres ( there is an "anti-metrification" group active in the UK) and needed to be in yards, I believe that UK signs CAN be metric (in line with metricification that appears to be postponed indefinately) but legally should be imperial.

The situation in the Uk is that metric distances are not permissible on road signage in the interests of having a coherent system, though bridge heights are the exception. However, what most councils do nowadays is that they sign in yards, but the actual distance is in metres - so when a sign says "Traffic lights 100 yds" it is actually 100 metres to the lights.

murphaph

Indeed, even in the UK, roads are designed and built in metric. Chainages used internally are all metric. Only the signs show imperial.

Alun

I seem to remember once seeing signs in the UK with 'strange' distances like 218 yards (approx 200m) but I think these were outlawed shortly afterwards, so I think they then went over to the system spacetweek mentioned, i.e. place the signs according to the metric distance, but signpost it in yards, presumably in anticipation of those stupid 'metric martyr' types dying out some day, and being replaced by a generation who were brought up entirely in metric, so they could then just change the signs over without having to move them as well.

Chris_533976

Remember the gantrys on the N25 coming up to the Kinsale Road Roundabout? They were completly wrong and the first told people to get into the wrong lane and the second encouraged people to swerve. There were desperate mistakes on the signs too.

Over the last few days, they've put up some "Get in lane" signs near the gantries on the side of the road that now completely contradict them, and are themselves wrong.

Fantastic, now we've got two completly incorrect signage systems coming up to a major interchanges that contradict eachother.

GAH!!!!

mackerski

spacetweek wrote:

However, what most councils do nowadays is that they sign in yards, but the actual distance is in metres - so when a sign says "Traffic lights 100 yds" it is actually 100 metres to the lights.

A British solution to a British problem?

Wishbone Ash

mackerski wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by spacetweek
However, what most councils do nowadays is that they sign in yards, but the actual distance is in metres - so when a sign says "Traffic lights 100 yds" it is actually 100 metres to the lights.

A British solution to a British problem?

....and the distance from the sign to the lights is determined by the stride of the worker placing the signage!

Richard

Deleted User wrote:

But having said that, I do know of a couple of spelling mistakes that had to be corrrected afterwards

There is a sign near Middletown in south Armagh that refers to somewhere called "Monoghan"!

Wishbone Ash

Does anyone else find the "USE BOTH LANES" signs at roadworks a bit silly? :rolleyes:

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Does anyone else find the "USE BOTH LANES" signs at roadworks a bit silly? :rolleyes:

No! the reason for them is to get motorists to queue in both lanes and merge AT the road works, rather than most going into the Left lane and then being narked by "queue jumpers" who use the right hand lane.

In North wales they have a special sign for "merge in turn" at the start of any single line working and "use both lanes" in advance of the roadworks.

Wishbone Ash

Deleted User wrote:

Quote:

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Does anyone else find the "USE BOTH LANES" signs at roadworks a bit silly?

No! the reason for them is to get motorists to queue in both lanes and merge AT the road works, rather than most going into the Left lane and then being narked by "queue jumpers" who use the right hand lane.

In North wales they have a special sign for "merge in turn" at the start of any single line working and "use both lanes" in advance of the roadworks.

I know why they are there dolanbaker, but it wouldn't "USE EITHER LANE" be much more appropriate?

How is one supposed to use both lanes - straddle two lanes taxi driver style? (Difficult if the lanes are seperated by cones )

Wishbone Ash

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I know why they are there dolanbaker, but it wouldn't "USE EITHER LANE" be much more appropriate?

How is one supposed to use both lanes - straddle two lanes taxi driver style? (Difficult if the lanes are seperated by cones )

Point taken, I suppose it just comes down to your interpretation of "use both lanes" as in queuing in either of the lanes or "use either lane" and queuing in one of both lanes.

Personally I think the use of "use both lanes" and "merge in turn" signs is best.