Poor Road Signage Pictures

jrar

And another example of good signage (this time with no unofficial or illegal signs to obliterate it)..........which goes to show that the various co. cos. and the NRA can do it right sometimes, It's the inconsistency of design, and the downright lazy attitude to sign placement and maintenance which is so frustrating !

murphaph

Well you've hit the nail on the head. Occasionally you see it straight from the TSM, as in your example. So why can't it be done right more often (even the UK makes mistakes, so we will never have 100% correct signage).

Now, another thing your pic illustrates is that rounded corners with the same radius on signs are perfect and look so neat, so why do our Advance Direction Signs have rounded corners of differing radii? It looks stupid and I'm almost certain they did it just to make the signs look a bit less british.

On +ve note, the ADS's on the offslip from the N4 to the R136 are bang on, complete with 3t prohibition roundels. Must get a pic of that. I have the distinct impression that an ex-british local authority person or persons works for SDCC as all their recent schemes feature very british elements. No right turn prohibition roundels in illuminated boxes on traffic lights etc. You rarely see them anywhere else, but again-so neat.

Cappo

I photographed this sign obscured by trees beside the “famine” statues at Custom House Quay and as this is the main route from the ferry port. I reckon that a lot of tourists will be on the lookout for directions when they come to this important junction. I passed it on to Dublin City Council Traffic Department on the 10th of July and got no reply - I noticed on Sunday it’s still the same!








Bad service to the long suffering motorist and dangerous as well!

murphaph

and the sopport poles are contrary to the TSM!They are square in cross section and should be circular.

That sign really annoys me because we've paid for it and it would give useful information, if one could see it! More annoying than no sign at all IMO!

Victor

Cappo wrote:

I passed it on to Dublin City Council Traffic Department on the 10th of July and got no reply - I noticed on Sunday it’s still the same!

Oddly enough, try the Parks Department - it would have been their trees that got put in after the sign

Chris_533976

It looks like the closest tree has been hacked down once, its much smaller than the other one.

jrar

Hey, when the leaves fall from the trees, you'll be able to see it fine.

Visibility for 5-6 months of the year ? ....sure that's good enough for local and tourist alike. If anyone is inconvenienced by it, they can always pull over to the nearest pedestrian and ask directions...............that's how it works in most other parts of the country !!

Cappo

I was directed to this forum by error when my post on bad signage in the motoring section was replace here.

Had a read through all the posts and I have to say it’s a fascinating read. I am also very pleased to see that there are so many like-minded people (anoraks)! out there.

Road signage is a huge factor when it comes to road safety and I am contently surprised how low a priority it gets in all discussions in the press and elsewhere.

As see on this forum – traffic signs in Ireland are probably some of the worse in Europe.

I somewhat doubt the Irish road signage manual has ever been looked at by a typographer or a graphic designer. I reckon that the book has been produced by government departments, consisting of engineers, administrators and accountants, but not experts from the design industry.

The typeface used in Ireland is based on the UK model using the font Transport designed in the 1960s but the A and I have been modified for some bizarre reason. While this font is reasonable legible it, is not used consistently and even worse, is used in all caps (all research world-wide show that upper and lower case is much easer and quicker to read). Other fonts have also crept in – presumably by sign manufactures too lazy to stick to the rule book.


There are other international fonts specifically designed for road signs. Din-Schift is used in Germany, ANWB-Uu is used in Holland, Tratex is used in Sweden and Finland and now, researchers and designers in the United Stated have produced a new highway font called Clearview.


It is high time that the Government should get to grips with the appalling standard of road signage in Ireland and perhaps this time talk to someone in the design industry.

Traffic

The prunning of the trees on that side of Custom House Quay would be the responsibility of the Docklands Authorithy

Chris_533976

Actually, I'm not sure if they're allowed to do public tree pruning during teh summer, due to nesting birds.

They should remove that tree in the autumn, full stop! What a stupid place to put a tree!

Seth Brundle

Chris_533976 wrote:

Actually, I'm not sure if they're allowed to do public tree pruning during teh summer, due to nesting birds.

It shouldn't be there anyhow!

tonc76

jrar wrote:

And another example of good signage (this time with no unofficial or illegal signs to obliterate it)..........which goes to show that the various co. cos. and the NRA can do it right sometimes, It's the inconsistency of design, and the downright lazy attitude to sign placement and maintenance which is so frustrating !

Even though the destinations are clear that sign is still technically incorrect. There should be a white strip to the left of (M4) on the left of the motorway sign

Almost right but not quite :eek:

mike65

Tom McGurk was musing on road signage on his programme this morning - head to www.rte.ie/radio1 and navigate your way!

Mike.

jrar

tonc76 wrote:

Even though the destinations are clear that sign is still technically incorrect. There should be a white strip to the left of (M4) on the left of the motorway sign

Almost right but not quite :eek:

OK, take your point, but I was just highlighting it from a everyday road-user perspective iin that it's clear and easy to read, it's facing the junction, it's facing the right way !, it's at a good height, it hasn't been defaced, and there's no clutter or older signs around it telling you where the Mountain View B&B is, or what nights the local pub has Irish trad sessions. or the fact that Francie Nolan's new Centra convenience store is due to open in Nov. 2005 etc,

It does what is sets out to do and aids the road-user, even if it doesn't conform 100% to the manual - I'd rather all signs were a model of clarity, legibility, and visibility even if they were 1% off the tech spec. ! Instead we have the worst of both worlds with non-conforming signs with poor sight-lines to them, ambiguous information on them, swinging in the wind.................

jrar

mike65 wrote:

Tom McGurk was musing on road signage on his programme this morning - head to www.rte.ie/radio1 and navigate your way!

Mike.

Just listening to it - it's come up in a discussion on tourism and tourists' experiences in this country. McGurk's viewpoint somewhere between apoplectic and seriously bemused, and wondering aloud about the muppetry conducted by the various authorities, and how no-one is responsible as usual.

One of the panel spoke of driving in the midlands during the past week and being on the "new road near Kilbeggan and there being a sign for Kilbeggan but none for Galway, so you had to know that Kilbeggan was on the Galway road" - not familiar with the road/junction in question myself, but some of the other posters on here may be

mike65

Someone e-mailed an example where a car heading to Dublin from Cork via Kilkenny (strange route) ended up in Carrick-on-Suir but the occupants did'nt know that until they asked a local. Frankly, thats just not paying attention

Mike.

jrar

jrar wrote:

One of the panel spoke of driving in the midlands during the past week and being on the "new road near Kilbeggan and there being a sign for Kilbeggan but none for Galway, so you had to know that Kilbeggan was on the Galway road" - not familiar with the road/junction in question myself, but some of the other posters on here may be

Westbound at the Killbeggan Junction, the sign has Galway "greyed out" as the road is still under construction! there are temporary orange signs for Galway at and after the junction.

In the other direction there is HUGE electronic sign flashing "DUBLIN" to direct traffic to the new road.

Richard

Now that the roads in the Republic are so much better, the signs need to be improved too. On a number of occasions I have found myself following a sign somewhere, only to come across a junction where the place is not listed.

In Gaeltacht areas, the decision to wipe out the English seems odd to me, but if they are going to do that, get rid of that horrible illegible italic font. I find it difficult to read. And warning signs, such as those outside schools schould never be in Irish only. That is dangerous and irresponsible.

Surely we should have some sort of EU-wide signage format which should take into account countries or regions with more than one official language. It would not have to be an overnight thing, but could be introduced gradually as signs need replaced. A clear legible font would keep everyone happy!

All standard warning signs have symbols identifying the hazard, the text is only there to reinforce this (the only issue I have with warning signs in the republic is the fact that they are American rather than European, WHY!).

If you don't recognise the symbol, then you need to look at the highway code.

I don't like the italic font on road signs, they are harder to read - having the English language destinations in all capitals exaggerates this difficulty.

mike65

I'd like to know why signs for Gaeltacht destinations in adjacent English speaking Ireland are in Irish only. Makes no sense at all.

Mike.

icdg

Cappo wrote:

As see on this forum – traffic signs in Ireland are probably some of the worse in Europe.

I somewhat doubt the Irish road signage manual has ever been looked at by a typographer or a graphic designer. I reckon that the book has been produced by government departments, consisting of engineers, administrators and accountants, but not experts from the design industry.

The typeface used in Ireland is based on the UK model using the font Transport designed in the 1960s but the A and I have been modified for some bizarre reason. While this font is reasonable legible it, is not used consistently and even worse, is used in all caps (all research world-wide show that upper and lower case is much easer and quicker to read). Other fonts have also crept in – presumably by sign manufactures too lazy to stick to the rule book.

Essentially the Irish directional sign system is taken directly from the UK TSRGD. The only real changes made, initally at least, was to make the English language text all-capitals. Later, in 1989, the decision was taken for some reason to italicise the Irish text (you will sometimes see old 1980s road signs with the non-italic text on it). When the UK introduced patching of destinations (the Guildford rules) we followed suit.

Irish directional signs, if done correctly, should aside from the text case issue, look more-or-less identical to UK signs. There are only two other major differences - our use of Motorway font (we use it only for M-road numbers, in all circumstances, they use it for all numbers on motorways but never on other roads), and a policy decision that map signs not be used in Ireland except for roundabouts and motorway fork signs - the TSM allows for them though, as per the sign earlier in this thread.

As for the "A" - that is because that letter doesn't exist in that form in Gaelige, so they changed it. I agree that there could be better ways of distingishing between the Irish and English text. Scotland use different colours for their text, while Wales does nothing! I prefer the Scottish method to either ours or Wales. At the very least, the Irish placename should not be itaclicised where it is the only placename (eg Dun Laoghaire / Port Laoise or any Gaeltacht placename.)

As to why Gaeltacht placenames are in Irish only - they have been since the 1960s within the Gaeltacht, but Eammon O'Cuiv decided to go one better and ban them outside the Gaeltacht too with his Official Languages Act. (In Kerry they've rebelled, and spraypainted "Dingle" back onto signposts where the council had painted it out).

Victor

mike65 wrote:

Someone e-mailed an example where a car heading to Dublin from Cork via Kilkenny (strange route) ended up in Carrick-on-Suir but the occupants did'nt know that until they asked a local. Frankly, thats just not paying attention

Maybe they had a map and were following the old T6(?).

daymobrew

Victor wrote:

Oddly enough, try the Parks Department - it would have been their trees that got put in after the sign

I wrote to the Parks Department and got the following reply:

Reply from DCC Parks wrote:

I have forwarded your email to Ed Bowden who is the District Parks Officer for the Central Area of the City and he will arrange to have the trees pruned.

Now you know who to hassle.

Victor

Result!

murphaph

Our TSM is not perfect and is horribly out of date, BUT if 90% of roadsigns adhered to it and all applicable junctions received its treatment, we would indeed have signage on a par with any developed country.

The TSM is currently under review. Chapter 8 (signs for roadworks) has been published and is a minor improvement IMO.

It has a few new bits and bobs like a Queues Likely sign, so expect one of those in the main chapter on warnung signs. The big question is: Will map type direction signs be included for general junctions?!

The TRL in the UK bid for the contract to rewrite the TSM but unfortunately they didn't get it and an irish consultancy got it. Shame-the TRL is a world leader in such things!

Cappo

murphaph wrote:

Our TSM is not perfect and is horribly out of date, BUT if 90% of roadsigns adhered to it and all applicable junctions received its treatment, we would indeed have signage on a par with any developed country.

The TSM is currently under review. Chapter 8 (signs for roadworks) has been published and is a minor improvement IMO.

It has a few new bits and bobs like a Queues Likely sign, so expect one of those in the main chapter on warnung signs. The big question is: Will map type direction signs be included for general junctions?!

The TRL in the UK bid for the contract to rewrite the TSM but unfortunately they didn't get it and an irish consultancy got it. Shame-the TRL is a world leader in such things!

At least someone is doing something about it – any idea who the consultants are – and are any members of the design profession involved (graphic designers, typographers)? Who are TRL in the UK?

Alun

Cappo wrote:

Who are TRL in the UK?

Transport Research Laboratory

http://www.trl.co.uk/

Cappo

icdg wrote:

Essentially the Irish directional sign system is taken directly from the UK TSRGD. The only real changes made, initally at least, was to make the English language text all-capitals. Later, in 1989, the decision was taken for some reason to italicise the Irish text (you will sometimes see old 1980s road signs with the non-italic text on it). When the UK introduced patching of destinations (the Guildford rules) we followed suit.

Irish directional signs, if done correctly, should aside from the text case issue, look more-or-less identical to UK signs. There are only two other major differences - our use of Motorway font (we use it only for M-road numbers, in all circumstances, they use it for all numbers on motorways but never on other roads), and a policy decision that map signs not be used in Ireland except for roundabouts and motorway fork signs - the TSM allows for them though, as per the sign earlier in this thread.

As for the "A" - that is because that letter doesn't exist in that form in Gaelige, so they changed it. I agree that there could be better ways of distingishing between the Irish and English text. Scotland use different colours for their text, while Wales does nothing! I prefer the Scottish method to either ours or Wales. At the very least, the Irish placename should not be itaclicised where it is the only placename (eg Dun Laoghaire / Port Laoise or any Gaeltacht placename.)

As to why Gaeltacht placenames are in Irish only - they have been since the 1960s within the Gaeltacht, but Eammon O'Cuiv decided to go one better and ban them outside the Gaeltacht too with his Official Languages Act. (In Kerry they've rebelled, and spraypainted "Dingle" back onto signposts where the council had painted it out).

I prefer the Scottish practice of a colour change – see some samples.

Richard

Cappo wrote:

I prefer the Scottish practice of a colour change – see some samples.

Perfect!