Ravings of an aging gamer!!

Vegeta

The more I see of the 360 the happier I am I didn't buy one, might buy one in a year when there are good games and its cheaper, my house mate has one and it has not impressed me one bit. PGR3 has ok graphics for a fifth generation console but not much else, it plays well but so do other driving games on older consoles like forza and gran turismo series

He argues that to get the same level of gaming anywhere else you need to buy a PC worth around 1500 euro, well fair argument but an xbox 360 needs a hdtv or computer monitor (it looks pretty average otherwise) with VGA cable so that hikes the price up a nice chunk plus a PC of that price can do many other things that a 360 cant.

Also can someone please tell me why the games are so expensive, I know they sell the consoles at a loss to make money on the games but is the result of this coughing up 70 euro a pop for the games? There is the argument that they are "next gen" so therefor cost more to develop, I say how come games like Half Life 2 (which is a better game in terms or graphics, technical merit and game play than any FPS on the 360) cost less, it was years in development and was "next gen" in its own right on the PC. This leads to only one conclusion and that is profit, Microsoft are losing lots of money on the console and making loads of it back on the games. With the current quality of the games I don't think these prices are justified.

Am I getting too old for this or is my rant a valid one??

Spitfire666

100% Valid point!
I went through a phase of buying loads of games,like two a month but now its just crazy,50 to 70 quid a game its stupid money.theres no way there worth that much sems as most can be finished in two days. I almost never buy games new anymore.Pre-owned games are still the same game and sometimes you get lucky and find one that they havnt put almost the same price as the new game on.

Ciaran500

Its a valid rant but it happens every console launch. Theres always a shortage of games worth buying and all games over priced. IIRC the SNES games were about £70 when the console first released.

Give it time and let the competition release their consoles and we should see prices dropped and more frequent high quality releases.

mcgovern

Vegeta wrote:

The more I see of the 360 the happier I am I didn't buy one, might buy one in a year when there are good games and its cheaper, my house mate has one and it has not impressed me one bit. PGR3 has ok graphics for a fifth generation console but not much else, it plays well but so do other driving games on older consoles like forza and gran turismo series

He argues that to get the same level of gaming anywhere else you need to buy a PC worth around 1500 euro, well fair argument but an xbox 360 needs a hdtv or computer monitor (it looks pretty average otherwise) with VGA cable so that hikes the price up a nice chunk plus a PC of that price can do many other things that a 360 cant.

Also can someone please tell me why the games are so expensive, I know they sell the consoles at a loss to make money on the games but is the result of this coughing up 70 euro a pop for the games? There is the argument that they are "next gen" so therefor cost more to develop, I say how come games like Half Life 2 (which is a better game in terms or graphics, technical merit and game play than any FPS on the 360) cost less, it was years in development and was "next gen" in its own right on the PC. This leads to only one conclusion and that is profit, Microsoft are losing lots of money on the console and making loads of it back on the games. With the current quality of the games I don't think these prices are justified.

Am I getting too old for this or is my rant a valid one??

Too old, €65 euro for a game is a lot I admit, but they are ~€50 for Xbox, PS2 or PSP, and were £70 for some older systems such as SNES at launch.
As for HL2, bought it for my PC when it just came out. The pain alone of Steam verifying all those files, restarting the PC about 10 times etc makes paying an extra few quid for a console version alot more attractive.

Tank Top Fever!

how old do you have to be to be an ageing gamer?

KTRIC

Tank Top Fever! wrote:

how old do you have to be to be an ageing gamer?

I bet he's really old, like 29 or something :rolleyes:

Vegeta

22 but I feel a lot older if I have to complain about the price of games. Obviously I didn't realise how much my parents were forking out for games when I was younger i.e. 70 for a snes game, I was a megadrive man myself but remember renting a snes quite a few times just to play street fighter and mario kart.

Yeah I agree that HL2 was an absolute bitch to install but still a very good game, my point there was that with HL2 you get more bang for your buck.

Alnilam

I'm 32 does that make me a silver gamer? :P

But seriously kids, The SRP (suggested retail price) for x-box 360 games in Ireland is €65.00 inc vat. if you are paying more than that, don't, there is at least 1 online store shipping games to ireland for less than that (play.com) so why pay joe retail their €70-€80 for a game that you can have delivered to your home for less all you have to do is wait a few days! and if you preorder a game they ship it to be with you on the release date.

If we as the buying public don't spend our money in retail stores they will have to bring there prices back in line or go out of business. It's not microsoft who are charging you the silly amount of cash it's the retailers

I'm really tired of hearing about "rip-off" ireland, it's so easy to blame the retailers or the government or whoever rather than admitting that the reason it's so bloody expensive is that the irish public are willing to pay it.

As for Value, Live adds so much to a game like PGR3 (I'd like to say COD2 here but the lag kills the game online for me:( ) The game could be completed on it's easiest level in a few hours and only the truly dedicated would go back to beat it again at the higher levels but with online racing you need to go back and beat it at the higher levels to get your skills to a level where you can compete with some dignity on line I'm still losing far to much for my liking and It's 3 weeks since the first time I competed all the trophies.

Maybe peeps are forgetting the days of multiplayer games meaning you had to wait your turn to play! :P

Vegeta

Alnilam wrote:

I'm 32 does that make me a silver gamer? :P

But seriously kids, The SRP (suggested retail price) for x-box 360 games in Ireland is €65.00 inc vat. if you are paying more than that, don't, there is at least 1 online store shipping games to ireland for less than that (play.com) so why pay joe retail their €70-€80 for a game that you can have delivered to your home for less all you have to do is wait a few days! and if you preorder a game they ship it to be with you on the release date.

If we as the buying public don't spend our money in retail stores they will have to bring there prices back in line or go out of business. It's not microsoft who are charging you the silly amount of cash it's the retailers

I'm really tired of hearing about "rip-off" ireland, it's so easy to blame the retailers or the government or whoever rather than admitting that the reason it's so bloody expensive is that the irish public are willing to pay it.

As for Value, Live adds so much to a game like PGR3 (I'd like to say COD2 here but the lag kills the game online for me:( ) The game could be completed on it's easiest level in a few hours and only the truly dedicated would go back to beat it again at the higher levels but with online racing you need to go back and beat it at the higher levels to get your skills to a level where you can compete with some dignity on line I'm still losing far to much for my liking and It's 3 weeks since the first time I competed all the trophies.

Maybe peeps are forgetting the days of multiplayer games meaning you had to wait your turn to play! :P

I agree with a great deal of what you're saying, I also buy most of my DVDs, games etc online on play or amazon.co.uk but I don't own an xbox 360. You can be damn sure i'd be buying my games online if I did have one.

Also live costs money as does broadband, so to fully enjoy the live experience you have to pay 60 euro a year for live and at least 200 euro (being very optimistic there) a year for broadband.

KTRIC

I've got 2 words for ya , BUY YOUR GAMES ONLINE !!!

Vegeta

read above:D

Tank Top Fever!

32 eh? cool, that means I have at least 11 good years of gaming left in me. I was scared I'd grow out of it soon

Clank

Alnilam hit the nail on the head, Live is really where PGR3 and Perfect Dark come into there own.
I completed PGR3 in 3 days on Gold, it really wasnt even worth putting in, Perfect Dark didnt bother going past Level 5 but on Live ive played both for numerous hours.
Your not too old just get Live.

Vegeta

we have live

Alnilam

so to fully enjoy the live experience you have to pay 60 euro a year for live and at least 200 euro (being very optimistic there) a year for broadband.

Yes your live subscription is less per year than a single game and it extends the life of all your games, sounds like good value to me before you even think of all the demo's, live arcade etc.

Broadband cost are a different story and I could see that being prohibitive if all you were going to do was use it for gaming but how many of us would not use broadband for other things in the home?

The glass isn't half empty you know it just depends on the angle you look at it from.

Clank

Well your rant about games prices being high is fair, but it happens every console launch, it wont change either.

An xbox 360 doesnt need a HDTV either, but your only getting half the visuals if you are still running standard definition.Its not the 360s fault that it looks average its your tv, normal tvs can only show so much.

The broadband cost doesnt come into it either, I had broadband before I got Live, I need broadband anyway.

KerranJast

It's probably a testament to how better off we are these days but I remember when I was young (I'm the same age as Vegata) my Dad rented us a Megadrive with Sonic, Golden Axe and Desert Strike for a weekend. It was like a second Christmas. I also remember my next door neighbour had a Commodore 64 and we used to spend what now seems like hours waiting for the tape drive to load games. I've young cousins now the same age I was then and they'd laugh if I tried to explain why that was so good.

Vegeta

KerranJast wrote:

It's probably a testament to how better off we are these days but I remember when I was young (I'm the same age as Vegata) my Dad rented us a Megadrive with Sonic, Golden Axe and Desert Strike for a weekend. It was like a second Christmas. I also remember my next door neighbour had a Commodore 64 and we used to spend what now seems like hours waiting for the tape drive to load games. I've young cousins now the same age I was then and they'd laugh if I tried to explain why that was so good.

Exactly, ya see that is what I'm talking about, I just don't get the same oh my god factor anymore. I could partly blame it on the marketing for building it up and up and then it turns out to be average, quite an expensive average.

People have commented that you don't need a HDTV or that I just happened to have broadband anyway so I got Live. Yes these expenses aren't necessary but what a mediocore/let down of a system without them. You get average graphics (look at god of war on PS2 and then tell me the xbox 360 looks good on a standard tv, it is nearly matched by a PS2) and average games. Not a bad console but not great or worth 410 euro. Thats just my opinion of course but the Japs know what I'm talking about and they know a thing or two about gaming.

KerranJast

I think whats happened is that they've finally hit the barrier with the resolution of the bog standard TV. The Xbox360 inside is a **** hot *literally* machine, comparable to any top of the range PC. The problem is that the output from it just can't match PC graphics anymore. Until that bottleneck is sorted i.e. High res TVs get a lot cheaper, the situation won't change. Guaranteed the same issue will arise with the PS3 and Nintendos Revolution.

VeVeX

The PS2 is highly dated at this stage. The original xbox in my opinion was a far better piece of equipment. The day I bought an xbox on release was the last time I bought a game for the PS2 bar Gran Turismo and GTA.

Maybe the 360 looks average on a SDTV but at the end of the day its a next gen console that requires next generation HDTv to take advantage of its capabilities. Within the 360s perceived lifespan nearly everybody will have a HDTV anyway.

Alnilam

Vegeta wrote:

Exactly, ya see that is what I'm talking about, I just don't get the same oh my god factor anymore. I could partly blame it on the marketing for building it up and up and then it turns out to be average, quite an expensive.

maybe cause your not a child??? or maybe your afraid to release the child within

People have commented that you don't need a HDTV or that I just happened to have broadband anyway so I got Live. Yes these expenses aren't necessary but what a mediocore/let down of a system without them. You get average graphics (look at god of war on PS2 and then tell me the xbox 360 looks good on a standard tv, it is nearly matched by a PS2) and average games.

as has already been said, the TV is the limitation and the PS2 (my last console) really did push the limits of what SDTV could display, I am lucky in so much as when my old telly died earlier this year I was able to replace it with one that was HD ready. but no next gen console is going to get better results on SDTV than the 360 because the telly is the problem.

SKY are planning to introduce HDTV broadcasts this year, will you moan about that not being any better cause you don't have a HDTV as well???

Not a bad console but not great or worth 410 euro. Thats just my opinion of course

Your entitled to your opinion but I to disagree (having used a 360 on going since the 8/12/2005) , By far my best new product/out of the box consumer electronics experience since my commodore 64.

As for your other comment, don't you think loyalty and those odd games that sell in Japan and nowhere else might have something to do with both xboxes performance in that market?

KerranJast

I would expect sales of the 360 in Japan to pick up anyway towards next Christmas. The PS3 will probably have debuted by then and people will see that is not exactly sent from Heaven (although it could be pretty damn good) plus the 360 should have a stable platform by then with some good next gen games.

Vegeta

VeVeX wrote:

The PS2 is highly dated at this stage. The original xbox in my opinion was a far better piece of equipment. The day I bought an xbox on release was the last time I bought a game for the PS2 bar Gran Turismo and GTA.

Maybe the 360 looks average on a SDTV but at the end of the day its a next gen console that requires next generation HDTv to take advantage of its capabilities. Within the 360s perceived lifespan nearly everybody will have a HDTV anyway.

Oh I agree with you guys the 360 will be amazin in about 12 months when developers can get that little bit more out of it and HDTVs come down in price. Don't get me wrong the 360 has the potential to be a much better machine than the PS2 but at the moment its not doing it, better graphics will only get you so far, the xbox also had live. Lets see them use that triple processor and GDDR3 ram with swarms of really clever enemies, lets drown the mind in visual stimulation, shut me up, prove me wrong and then i'll part with my money. Games are ok, but thats what's wrong they are only ok.

My main gripe is the price involved in getting the console up and running to its full potential and the quality of games at the moment, which I'm hoping will change in the next few months and persuade me to get one.

steviec

I've got my 360 on a high def tv now, but when I first got it and was running it in standard definition I still thought it looked amazing. We're not at the limit of what you can do on SDTV - Coronation Street looks more realistic on a SDTV than the 360 does so of course there's room for improvement. 360 games are looking far, far better than older games even in standard definition and I don't know how you could have played them and not thought that.

Anyway, graphics aren't everything, and the extra features (live, media streaming, arcade, wireless) are what make this console in my opinion. The fact that I can enjoy Need for Speed Most Wanted with the grating music EA put in being replaced by my ENTIRE music collection stored on my computer, while it's automatically paused for cut scenes too so I don't miss anything. The way I can drop out for a quick game of gauntlet/billiards/mutant storm when I feel like a change. The way I can play demos of FIFA, Condemned, NBA, Quake 4 and others without ever having to walk over to the console to change a disc. The way I can play the console without ever having to go near it and the whole area is so tidy now without wires.

As for games, Call of Duty 2, PGR3, NFS:MW are all fine games that I own for the console and considering how early in its life it is thats good going, especially since there's other games like Condemned and Kameo that I'm interested in. With others like Oblivion, and Mass Effect coming soon I think it's looking fairly healthy.

As for game prices, I remember when the euro came in that PS2 games were rounded to 65 euro at first and I don't think the console was that new then, as has been said cartridge games on older systems have also been really expensive, didn't some N64 games hit £70? The price will go down with time, taking into account inflation games in general are cheaper now than they've ever been.

Vegeta

Alnilam wrote:

maybe cause your not a child??? or maybe your afraid to release the child within



as has already been said, the TV is the limitation and the PS2 (my last console) really did push the limits of what SDTV could display, I am lucky in so much as when my old telly died earlier this year I was able to replace it with one that was HD ready. but no next gen console is going to get better results on SDTV than the 360 because the telly is the problem.

SKY are planning to introduce HDTV broadcasts this year, will you moan about that not being any better cause you don't have a HDTV as well???



Your entitled to your opinion but I to disagree (having used a 360 on going since the 8/12/2005) , By far my best new product/out of the box consumer electronics experience since my commodore 64.

As for your other comment, don't you think loyalty and those odd games that sell in Japan and nowhere else might have something to do with both xboxes performance in that market?

Ok some of our points are crossing here, with regards the HDTV issue, affording a HDTV isn't the problem. The fact remains that the games are sub par, the only area at the moment in which the 360 is better is graphically, and this graphical advantage cant be seen on the average persons tv so why bother, get a HDTV and you're playing polished turds. The arcade games on Live are better than the released games so far.

PGR3 would probably have got 90% reviews if it was on the xbox as it also has the live functions. PDZ don't even get me started on that, I went from playing battlefield 2 on the PC to that and I actully felt dumber for it. I am a very headstrong person by the way so am probably going overboard with my comments.

It didn't sell in Japan because the release line up was weak

to steviec, if you have played God of War on PS2 you will know what I mean, that has pushed the PS2 to its limits and looks fantastic, as you say graphics are not everything but 360 is depending on them at the moment and Live which was there to a lesser extent on the xbox.

steviec

Vegeta wrote:

the only area at the moment in which the 360 is better is graphically,

Like I said above, I disagree

In fact I'm currently looking into getting the xbox version of Monkey Ball because its one of my all time favourite games but I can't stand having to go unravelling gamecube cables... Mayb I'm just lazy!

Alnilam

Vegeta if I'm understanding what your saying correctly the games on the 360 are bad except for the graphics? I don't agree at all, the games that I have I am very impressed with.

PGR3 is the best racing game I have played and I have been a tourismo fan before that Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix series would have been the standard as far as I am concerned PGR3 on playability alone outdoes them both and that's before you take into account the online racing that sony has promised in the last3 versions of GT and then failed to deliver!

Kameo is the only 3D platformer that has ever held my attention for more than about an hour and COD2 is just stunning.

The only game that I have played so far on the 360 that disapointed is NBA Live and the reason that it has disapointed me is simply because I don't follow basketball and I presumed it would have an "arcade" type option so I could easily have a laugh with me meates, it doesn't and the game itself is great I just didn't research my purchase properly.

So to sum up change IS good, progress IS good, xbox360 is THE game platform standard that all others will be judged by for the foreseeable future. And don't bother mentioning the pc as a game platform, the shrinking shelf space occupied by pc games in all games stores shows how dead it is as a gaming platform.

projectmayhem

i have a 360 and am disappointed, but of all my critisisms of the machine, i've not once complained about the price. you're getting a top rate piece of hardware for (in technology terms) next-to-nothing. a similar rig for PC would cost about €2000.

however, the games suck at the moment. CoD2 is great, but it's a PC port. as is quake4 (which i didn't like anyway). PGR3 is a very sleek looking game but the engine pales in comparison to GT4 (IMO)... i don't like rpg's or most sporty games so i'm left waiting for something to catch my eye. but my eye wont be caught until they lower game prices. robbing bastards (production costs haven't gone up on these games, why should the retail price?!)

at the moment the 360 is the best platform for gaming out there. but that's due to the fact that microsoft was first out the door (something i think they may regret in the future). we still have 2 more consoles to come. one is radically different, the other is radically.. er.. powered?

of course it all comes down to games. and the fact that i only give a crap about 3 games at the most being emulated on 360 says it all. i have a bulky set of ps2 games that i refuse to let go when ps3 comes around.

as for PC gaming being dead... it's not dead. yeah, retailers are making their PC sections smaller, but that's to host the top20, rather then have a back catalogue (which never do well). then you have to factor in the fact that PC games do much more business online then console games, especially with platforms like steam and whatever EA's new one is called.

if PC gaming was dying in the last few years, Alienware and co. wouldn't be flourishing, and dell wouldn't have come up with the XPS

good day to you. pip pip.

Clank

I understand where your coming from projectmayhem.
But im not a PC gamer, used to be till I got sick of upgrading.
Thats why Quake4, COD2 etc hold interest for me, many others I suspect aswell who are not PC gamers.

You disregard PGR3 because "the engine pales in comparison to GT4", surely you dont play it just to look at it.(Id disagree with you though on the engine)

VeVeX

Clank wrote:

You disregard PGR3 because "the engine pales in comparison to GT4", surely you dont play it just to look at it.(Id disagree with you though on the engine)

The PGR3 engine is not half as advanced as GT4. There was a hell of alot more development put into Gran Turismo 4. I think Gothem is an ordinary game that got a half polish for release on the 360. Graphically it is far from perfect and as for handling and the realism its a basic arcade game.

selephonic

Another reason for the higher price is that less people own the console, hence less people will buy the games. The cost of development is spread around less. That's also one of the primary reasons PC games cost less. More people will buy them because more people have PCs than have a particular console. There is a shift happening over recent years in that regard though, with PC game sales down in favour of consoles.

By the way I'm also an eldery games playing person at 27.