Ravings of an aging gamer!!

Vegeta

The more I see of the 360 the happier I am I didn't buy one, might buy one in a year when there are good games and its cheaper, my house mate has one and it has not impressed me one bit. PGR3 has ok graphics for a fifth generation console but not much else, it plays well but so do other driving games on older consoles like forza and gran turismo series

He argues that to get the same level of gaming anywhere else you need to buy a PC worth around 1500 euro, well fair argument but an xbox 360 needs a hdtv or computer monitor (it looks pretty average otherwise) with VGA cable so that hikes the price up a nice chunk plus a PC of that price can do many other things that a 360 cant.

Also can someone please tell me why the games are so expensive, I know they sell the consoles at a loss to make money on the games but is the result of this coughing up 70 euro a pop for the games? There is the argument that they are "next gen" so therefor cost more to develop, I say how come games like Half Life 2 (which is a better game in terms or graphics, technical merit and game play than any FPS on the 360) cost less, it was years in development and was "next gen" in its own right on the PC. This leads to only one conclusion and that is profit, Microsoft are losing lots of money on the console and making loads of it back on the games. With the current quality of the games I don't think these prices are justified.

Am I getting too old for this or is my rant a valid one??

Spitfire666

100% Valid point!
I went through a phase of buying loads of games,like two a month but now its just crazy,50 to 70 quid a game its stupid money.theres no way there worth that much sems as most can be finished in two days. I almost never buy games new anymore.Pre-owned games are still the same game and sometimes you get lucky and find one that they havnt put almost the same price as the new game on.

Ciaran500

Its a valid rant but it happens every console launch. Theres always a shortage of games worth buying and all games over priced. IIRC the SNES games were about £70 when the console first released.

Give it time and let the competition release their consoles and we should see prices dropped and more frequent high quality releases.

mcgovern

Vegeta wrote:

The more I see of the 360 the happier I am I didn't buy one, might buy one in a year when there are good games and its cheaper, my house mate has one and it has not impressed me one bit. PGR3 has ok graphics for a fifth generation console but not much else, it plays well but so do other driving games on older consoles like forza and gran turismo series

He argues that to get the same level of gaming anywhere else you need to buy a PC worth around 1500 euro, well fair argument but an xbox 360 needs a hdtv or computer monitor (it looks pretty average otherwise) with VGA cable so that hikes the price up a nice chunk plus a PC of that price can do many other things that a 360 cant.

Also can someone please tell me why the games are so expensive, I know they sell the consoles at a loss to make money on the games but is the result of this coughing up 70 euro a pop for the games? There is the argument that they are "next gen" so therefor cost more to develop, I say how come games like Half Life 2 (which is a better game in terms or graphics, technical merit and game play than any FPS on the 360) cost less, it was years in development and was "next gen" in its own right on the PC. This leads to only one conclusion and that is profit, Microsoft are losing lots of money on the console and making loads of it back on the games. With the current quality of the games I don't think these prices are justified.

Am I getting too old for this or is my rant a valid one??

Too old, €65 euro for a game is a lot I admit, but they are ~€50 for Xbox, PS2 or PSP, and were £70 for some older systems such as SNES at launch.
As for HL2, bought it for my PC when it just came out. The pain alone of Steam verifying all those files, restarting the PC about 10 times etc makes paying an extra few quid for a console version alot more attractive.

Tank Top Fever!

how old do you have to be to be an ageing gamer?

KTRIC

Tank Top Fever! wrote:

how old do you have to be to be an ageing gamer?

I bet he's really old, like 29 or something :rolleyes:

Vegeta

22 but I feel a lot older if I have to complain about the price of games. Obviously I didn't realise how much my parents were forking out for games when I was younger i.e. 70 for a snes game, I was a megadrive man myself but remember renting a snes quite a few times just to play street fighter and mario kart.

Yeah I agree that HL2 was an absolute bitch to install but still a very good game, my point there was that with HL2 you get more bang for your buck.

Alnilam

I'm 32 does that make me a silver gamer? :P

But seriously kids, The SRP (suggested retail price) for x-box 360 games in Ireland is €65.00 inc vat. if you are paying more than that, don't, there is at least 1 online store shipping games to ireland for less than that (play.com) so why pay joe retail their €70-€80 for a game that you can have delivered to your home for less all you have to do is wait a few days! and if you preorder a game they ship it to be with you on the release date.

If we as the buying public don't spend our money in retail stores they will have to bring there prices back in line or go out of business. It's not microsoft who are charging you the silly amount of cash it's the retailers

I'm really tired of hearing about "rip-off" ireland, it's so easy to blame the retailers or the government or whoever rather than admitting that the reason it's so bloody expensive is that the irish public are willing to pay it.

As for Value, Live adds so much to a game like PGR3 (I'd like to say COD2 here but the lag kills the game online for me:( ) The game could be completed on it's easiest level in a few hours and only the truly dedicated would go back to beat it again at the higher levels but with online racing you need to go back and beat it at the higher levels to get your skills to a level where you can compete with some dignity on line I'm still losing far to much for my liking and It's 3 weeks since the first time I competed all the trophies.

Maybe peeps are forgetting the days of multiplayer games meaning you had to wait your turn to play! :P

Vegeta

Alnilam wrote:

I'm 32 does that make me a silver gamer? :P

But seriously kids, The SRP (suggested retail price) for x-box 360 games in Ireland is €65.00 inc vat. if you are paying more than that, don't, there is at least 1 online store shipping games to ireland for less than that (play.com) so why pay joe retail their €70-€80 for a game that you can have delivered to your home for less all you have to do is wait a few days! and if you preorder a game they ship it to be with you on the release date.

If we as the buying public don't spend our money in retail stores they will have to bring there prices back in line or go out of business. It's not microsoft who are charging you the silly amount of cash it's the retailers

I'm really tired of hearing about "rip-off" ireland, it's so easy to blame the retailers or the government or whoever rather than admitting that the reason it's so bloody expensive is that the irish public are willing to pay it.

As for Value, Live adds so much to a game like PGR3 (I'd like to say COD2 here but the lag kills the game online for me:( ) The game could be completed on it's easiest level in a few hours and only the truly dedicated would go back to beat it again at the higher levels but with online racing you need to go back and beat it at the higher levels to get your skills to a level where you can compete with some dignity on line I'm still losing far to much for my liking and It's 3 weeks since the first time I competed all the trophies.

Maybe peeps are forgetting the days of multiplayer games meaning you had to wait your turn to play! :P

I agree with a great deal of what you're saying, I also buy most of my DVDs, games etc online on play or amazon.co.uk but I don't own an xbox 360. You can be damn sure i'd be buying my games online if I did have one.

Also live costs money as does broadband, so to fully enjoy the live experience you have to pay 60 euro a year for live and at least 200 euro (being very optimistic there) a year for broadband.

KTRIC

I've got 2 words for ya , BUY YOUR GAMES ONLINE !!!

Vegeta

read above:D

Tank Top Fever!

32 eh? cool, that means I have at least 11 good years of gaming left in me. I was scared I'd grow out of it soon

Clank

Alnilam hit the nail on the head, Live is really where PGR3 and Perfect Dark come into there own.
I completed PGR3 in 3 days on Gold, it really wasnt even worth putting in, Perfect Dark didnt bother going past Level 5 but on Live ive played both for numerous hours.
Your not too old just get Live.

Vegeta

we have live

Alnilam

so to fully enjoy the live experience you have to pay 60 euro a year for live and at least 200 euro (being very optimistic there) a year for broadband.

Yes your live subscription is less per year than a single game and it extends the life of all your games, sounds like good value to me before you even think of all the demo's, live arcade etc.

Broadband cost are a different story and I could see that being prohibitive if all you were going to do was use it for gaming but how many of us would not use broadband for other things in the home?

The glass isn't half empty you know it just depends on the angle you look at it from.

Clank

Well your rant about games prices being high is fair, but it happens every console launch, it wont change either.

An xbox 360 doesnt need a HDTV either, but your only getting half the visuals if you are still running standard definition.Its not the 360s fault that it looks average its your tv, normal tvs can only show so much.

The broadband cost doesnt come into it either, I had broadband before I got Live, I need broadband anyway.

KerranJast

It's probably a testament to how better off we are these days but I remember when I was young (I'm the same age as Vegata) my Dad rented us a Megadrive with Sonic, Golden Axe and Desert Strike for a weekend. It was like a second Christmas. I also remember my next door neighbour had a Commodore 64 and we used to spend what now seems like hours waiting for the tape drive to load games. I've young cousins now the same age I was then and they'd laugh if I tried to explain why that was so good.

Vegeta

KerranJast wrote:

It's probably a testament to how better off we are these days but I remember when I was young (I'm the same age as Vegata) my Dad rented us a Megadrive with Sonic, Golden Axe and Desert Strike for a weekend. It was like a second Christmas. I also remember my next door neighbour had a Commodore 64 and we used to spend what now seems like hours waiting for the tape drive to load games. I've young cousins now the same age I was then and they'd laugh if I tried to explain why that was so good.

Exactly, ya see that is what I'm talking about, I just don't get the same oh my god factor anymore. I could partly blame it on the marketing for building it up and up and then it turns out to be average, quite an expensive average.

People have commented that you don't need a HDTV or that I just happened to have broadband anyway so I got Live. Yes these expenses aren't necessary but what a mediocore/let down of a system without them. You get average graphics (look at god of war on PS2 and then tell me the xbox 360 looks good on a standard tv, it is nearly matched by a PS2) and average games. Not a bad console but not great or worth 410 euro. Thats just my opinion of course but the Japs know what I'm talking about and they know a thing or two about gaming.

KerranJast

I think whats happened is that they've finally hit the barrier with the resolution of the bog standard TV. The Xbox360 inside is a **** hot *literally* machine, comparable to any top of the range PC. The problem is that the output from it just can't match PC graphics anymore. Until that bottleneck is sorted i.e. High res TVs get a lot cheaper, the situation won't change. Guaranteed the same issue will arise with the PS3 and Nintendos Revolution.

VeVeX

The PS2 is highly dated at this stage. The original xbox in my opinion was a far better piece of equipment. The day I bought an xbox on release was the last time I bought a game for the PS2 bar Gran Turismo and GTA.

Maybe the 360 looks average on a SDTV but at the end of the day its a next gen console that requires next generation HDTv to take advantage of its capabilities. Within the 360s perceived lifespan nearly everybody will have a HDTV anyway.

Alnilam

Vegeta wrote:

Exactly, ya see that is what I'm talking about, I just don't get the same oh my god factor anymore. I could partly blame it on the marketing for building it up and up and then it turns out to be average, quite an expensive.

maybe cause your not a child??? or maybe your afraid to release the child within

People have commented that you don't need a HDTV or that I just happened to have broadband anyway so I got Live. Yes these expenses aren't necessary but what a mediocore/let down of a system without them. You get average graphics (look at god of war on PS2 and then tell me the xbox 360 looks good on a standard tv, it is nearly matched by a PS2) and average games.

as has already been said, the TV is the limitation and the PS2 (my last console) really did push the limits of what SDTV could display, I am lucky in so much as when my old telly died earlier this year I was able to replace it with one that was HD ready. but no next gen console is going to get better results on SDTV than the 360 because the telly is the problem.

SKY are planning to introduce HDTV broadcasts this year, will you moan about that not being any better cause you don't have a HDTV as well???

Not a bad console but not great or worth 410 euro. Thats just my opinion of course

Your entitled to your opinion but I to disagree (having used a 360 on going since the 8/12/2005) , By far my best new product/out of the box consumer electronics experience since my commodore 64.

As for your other comment, don't you think loyalty and those odd games that sell in Japan and nowhere else might have something to do with both xboxes performance in that market?

KerranJast

I would expect sales of the 360 in Japan to pick up anyway towards next Christmas. The PS3 will probably have debuted by then and people will see that is not exactly sent from Heaven (although it could be pretty damn good) plus the 360 should have a stable platform by then with some good next gen games.

Vegeta

VeVeX wrote:

The PS2 is highly dated at this stage. The original xbox in my opinion was a far better piece of equipment. The day I bought an xbox on release was the last time I bought a game for the PS2 bar Gran Turismo and GTA.

Maybe the 360 looks average on a SDTV but at the end of the day its a next gen console that requires next generation HDTv to take advantage of its capabilities. Within the 360s perceived lifespan nearly everybody will have a HDTV anyway.

Oh I agree with you guys the 360 will be amazin in about 12 months when developers can get that little bit more out of it and HDTVs come down in price. Don't get me wrong the 360 has the potential to be a much better machine than the PS2 but at the moment its not doing it, better graphics will only get you so far, the xbox also had live. Lets see them use that triple processor and GDDR3 ram with swarms of really clever enemies, lets drown the mind in visual stimulation, shut me up, prove me wrong and then i'll part with my money. Games are ok, but thats what's wrong they are only ok.

My main gripe is the price involved in getting the console up and running to its full potential and the quality of games at the moment, which I'm hoping will change in the next few months and persuade me to get one.

steviec

I've got my 360 on a high def tv now, but when I first got it and was running it in standard definition I still thought it looked amazing. We're not at the limit of what you can do on SDTV - Coronation Street looks more realistic on a SDTV than the 360 does so of course there's room for improvement. 360 games are looking far, far better than older games even in standard definition and I don't know how you could have played them and not thought that.

Anyway, graphics aren't everything, and the extra features (live, media streaming, arcade, wireless) are what make this console in my opinion. The fact that I can enjoy Need for Speed Most Wanted with the grating music EA put in being replaced by my ENTIRE music collection stored on my computer, while it's automatically paused for cut scenes too so I don't miss anything. The way I can drop out for a quick game of gauntlet/billiards/mutant storm when I feel like a change. The way I can play demos of FIFA, Condemned, NBA, Quake 4 and others without ever having to walk over to the console to change a disc. The way I can play the console without ever having to go near it and the whole area is so tidy now without wires.

As for games, Call of Duty 2, PGR3, NFS:MW are all fine games that I own for the console and considering how early in its life it is thats good going, especially since there's other games like Condemned and Kameo that I'm interested in. With others like Oblivion, and Mass Effect coming soon I think it's looking fairly healthy.

As for game prices, I remember when the euro came in that PS2 games were rounded to 65 euro at first and I don't think the console was that new then, as has been said cartridge games on older systems have also been really expensive, didn't some N64 games hit £70? The price will go down with time, taking into account inflation games in general are cheaper now than they've ever been.

Vegeta

Alnilam wrote:

maybe cause your not a child??? or maybe your afraid to release the child within



as has already been said, the TV is the limitation and the PS2 (my last console) really did push the limits of what SDTV could display, I am lucky in so much as when my old telly died earlier this year I was able to replace it with one that was HD ready. but no next gen console is going to get better results on SDTV than the 360 because the telly is the problem.

SKY are planning to introduce HDTV broadcasts this year, will you moan about that not being any better cause you don't have a HDTV as well???



Your entitled to your opinion but I to disagree (having used a 360 on going since the 8/12/2005) , By far my best new product/out of the box consumer electronics experience since my commodore 64.

As for your other comment, don't you think loyalty and those odd games that sell in Japan and nowhere else might have something to do with both xboxes performance in that market?

Ok some of our points are crossing here, with regards the HDTV issue, affording a HDTV isn't the problem. The fact remains that the games are sub par, the only area at the moment in which the 360 is better is graphically, and this graphical advantage cant be seen on the average persons tv so why bother, get a HDTV and you're playing polished turds. The arcade games on Live are better than the released games so far.

PGR3 would probably have got 90% reviews if it was on the xbox as it also has the live functions. PDZ don't even get me started on that, I went from playing battlefield 2 on the PC to that and I actully felt dumber for it. I am a very headstrong person by the way so am probably going overboard with my comments.

It didn't sell in Japan because the release line up was weak

to steviec, if you have played God of War on PS2 you will know what I mean, that has pushed the PS2 to its limits and looks fantastic, as you say graphics are not everything but 360 is depending on them at the moment and Live which was there to a lesser extent on the xbox.

steviec

Vegeta wrote:

the only area at the moment in which the 360 is better is graphically,

Like I said above, I disagree

In fact I'm currently looking into getting the xbox version of Monkey Ball because its one of my all time favourite games but I can't stand having to go unravelling gamecube cables... Mayb I'm just lazy!

Alnilam

Vegeta if I'm understanding what your saying correctly the games on the 360 are bad except for the graphics? I don't agree at all, the games that I have I am very impressed with.

PGR3 is the best racing game I have played and I have been a tourismo fan before that Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix series would have been the standard as far as I am concerned PGR3 on playability alone outdoes them both and that's before you take into account the online racing that sony has promised in the last3 versions of GT and then failed to deliver!

Kameo is the only 3D platformer that has ever held my attention for more than about an hour and COD2 is just stunning.

The only game that I have played so far on the 360 that disapointed is NBA Live and the reason that it has disapointed me is simply because I don't follow basketball and I presumed it would have an "arcade" type option so I could easily have a laugh with me meates, it doesn't and the game itself is great I just didn't research my purchase properly.

So to sum up change IS good, progress IS good, xbox360 is THE game platform standard that all others will be judged by for the foreseeable future. And don't bother mentioning the pc as a game platform, the shrinking shelf space occupied by pc games in all games stores shows how dead it is as a gaming platform.

projectmayhem

i have a 360 and am disappointed, but of all my critisisms of the machine, i've not once complained about the price. you're getting a top rate piece of hardware for (in technology terms) next-to-nothing. a similar rig for PC would cost about €2000.

however, the games suck at the moment. CoD2 is great, but it's a PC port. as is quake4 (which i didn't like anyway). PGR3 is a very sleek looking game but the engine pales in comparison to GT4 (IMO)... i don't like rpg's or most sporty games so i'm left waiting for something to catch my eye. but my eye wont be caught until they lower game prices. robbing bastards (production costs haven't gone up on these games, why should the retail price?!)

at the moment the 360 is the best platform for gaming out there. but that's due to the fact that microsoft was first out the door (something i think they may regret in the future). we still have 2 more consoles to come. one is radically different, the other is radically.. er.. powered?

of course it all comes down to games. and the fact that i only give a crap about 3 games at the most being emulated on 360 says it all. i have a bulky set of ps2 games that i refuse to let go when ps3 comes around.

as for PC gaming being dead... it's not dead. yeah, retailers are making their PC sections smaller, but that's to host the top20, rather then have a back catalogue (which never do well). then you have to factor in the fact that PC games do much more business online then console games, especially with platforms like steam and whatever EA's new one is called.

if PC gaming was dying in the last few years, Alienware and co. wouldn't be flourishing, and dell wouldn't have come up with the XPS

good day to you. pip pip.

Clank

I understand where your coming from projectmayhem.
But im not a PC gamer, used to be till I got sick of upgrading.
Thats why Quake4, COD2 etc hold interest for me, many others I suspect aswell who are not PC gamers.

You disregard PGR3 because "the engine pales in comparison to GT4", surely you dont play it just to look at it.(Id disagree with you though on the engine)

VeVeX

Clank wrote:

You disregard PGR3 because "the engine pales in comparison to GT4", surely you dont play it just to look at it.(Id disagree with you though on the engine)

The PGR3 engine is not half as advanced as GT4. There was a hell of alot more development put into Gran Turismo 4. I think Gothem is an ordinary game that got a half polish for release on the 360. Graphically it is far from perfect and as for handling and the realism its a basic arcade game.

selephonic

Another reason for the higher price is that less people own the console, hence less people will buy the games. The cost of development is spread around less. That's also one of the primary reasons PC games cost less. More people will buy them because more people have PCs than have a particular console. There is a shift happening over recent years in that regard though, with PC game sales down in favour of consoles.

By the way I'm also an eldery games playing person at 27.

Ciaran500

VeVeX wrote:

The PGR3 engine is not half as advanced as GT4. There was a hell of alot more development put into Gran Turismo 4. I think Gothem is an ordinary game that got a half polish for release on the 360. Graphically it is far from perfect and as for handling and the realism its a basic arcade game.

It is an arcade game, not a sim.

MadMoss

As someone in the IT industry (who has done some software work in the games industry too,) I would like to add a few points. I bought an xbox 360 before Christmas and I have now come to the conclusion how little Microsoft care for their customers and how much they just want money.

Firstly its initial cost, €300 (for the core system), I don't think this price is out of the ordinary for the price of a new console at launch. A valid point that should be made in this discussion

The price of a game for the x-box 360 varies from about €65-70 in most retail shops. IMO no game is worth this price. Is it fair to compare this price to the cost of a new movie released on DVD? While they are different industries with different markets, I think many comparisons can be drawn. A reasonable price for a game IMO is €30. €70 is ridicules. (A lot of thought put into this point BTW. I can elaborate, but it may bore u.)

I think that the way Microsoft launched the 360 is disgraceful. Many were disappointed at Christmas including younger children.

On a non-financial issue the 360 makes a lot of noise, substantially more than any console before it. As an “IT expert” I feel confident in saying that there is no reason for this other than it was released too early. Why not spend some time looking at a better cooling system? i.e. a slightly bigger, but slower fan, thus reducing noise for starters.

Backwards compatibility is a big problem. It seems that no original x-box game will work on less u have a hard disk costing u €100. It seems the emulator is on the hard disk instead of coming with the console itself, for obvious reasons. Also none of your original joy pads, memory sticks, remotes, cams, etc., etc. will work. Microsoft expects their customers to buy a whole new kit! They have a hard neck it seems.

Anyways, I hope I haven’t spoiled anyone’s console with my complaints, that not my intention. On the up side the lighting, and particle capabilities of the console really are fab, there is a lot of possibilities with this console so lets just wait and see.

Later.

xanthor

Vegeta wrote:

Also can someone please tell me why the games are so expensive?

Greed.





As for the greater fleibility thing with a PC,you're correct.

Personally, It would drive me nuts to have to change my Videocard every 6 to 9 monts and mess around with the latest version of Direct X in order to play a new game.

When one buys a console, there is certainty that games available for it will work without any need to take the console apart.... that's the main reason i go with consoles instead of PC's

KerranJast wrote:

I would expect sales of the 360 in Japan to pick up anyway towards next Christmas. The PS3 will probably have debuted by then and people will see that is not exactly sent from Heaven (although it could be pretty damn good) plus the 360 should have a stable platform by then with some good next gen games.

Bit off topic but.............

The vast majority of people who own a PS2 are casual gamers. They bought one becasue Sony marketing told them it was 'cool',and they don't see the need to own more than one current console at a time.

The marketing for the PS3 will be at least as agressive.

On top of that, although they are intersted in products/ideas from other countries, a lot of people in Japan are fiercely loyal to what they as domestic products.

Those two factors combined will mean MS can't win against Sony. Hopefully they will gain a lot of ground at least.

Vegeta

Project Mayhem and Mad Moss thanks for the comments.

To Steveic explain to me how you think PGR3 and PDZ are better than say GT4 or Halo 2 other than graphically.

PGR3 while being very fun to race is very limited in terms of modes, wow you can play it on line. I didn't see that comin.

PDZ is just weak all round, I cant think of one area that I thought it was "next gen"

I am not console bashing let me get that across, its just the games at the mo that I am unhappy with

Ciaran500

MadMoss wrote:

As someone in the IT industry (who has done some software work in the games industry too,) I would like to add a few points. I bought an xbox 360 before Christmas and I have now come to the conclusion how little Microsoft care for their customers and how much they just want money.

Just like every corporation in exsistance

MadMoss wrote:

The price of a game for the x-box 360 varies from about €65-70 in most retail shops.

They are priced like that cause they can get away with it. Its standard for any console launch, just wait it out and prices will drop with competiton.

MadMoss wrote:

I think that the way Microsoft launched the 360 is disgraceful. Many were disappointed at Christmas including younger children.

Microsoft were producing them as fast as they could, every new console and every must have christmas present has this problem.

MadMoss wrote:

Backwards compatibility is a big problem. It seems that no original x-box game will work on less u have a hard disk costing u €100. It seems the emulator is on the hard disk instead of coming with the console itself, for obvious reasons. Also none of your original joy pads, memory sticks, remotes, cams, etc., etc. will work. Microsoft expects their customers to buy a whole new kit! They have a hard neck it seems.

Once again this is standard and expected with new consoles, they take a huge hit on the console they have to get money from somewhere.

sillysquid

Give it some time, launch titles are rarely worth getting too excited about. Even Halo was over-rated.

To be honest though, I think PGR and Call Of Duty look and play wonderfully on the 360. I'm very happy with them! And while it's a fair point that a decent PC can be bought for a reasonable price, you'll find that in 18 months or so, you're gonna need to upgrade your hardware to get the best results when it comes to playing Half-Life 3 or whatever.

The reason I always invest more time/money in console gaming is that you know you're going to get a good few years worth of gaming out of your machine without the need to upgrade graphics cards etc. Also, as time progresses the quality of games available on a machine generally improves a great deal as companies master the platform. Just look at games like God Of War, Resi Evil 4, Halo 2....

Yeah I know the Xbox still had about a year left before the 360 came along and killed it, but this was more down to Microsofts desperation to get a firmer grip on the market. Consoles over pc gaming any day for me!

CiDeRmAn

The reason i invest money in a new console is so I can play the latest and best games, how long a format is to last is never a consideration.
Who cared at the Xboxes launch if it was going to die an early death?
Nope I went right out and bought one with PGR and Halo and loved every minute of it, same reason I bought a Gamecube and a PS2 at launch.
And as far as I remember the PS2 has a truely awful launch lineup compared to the games available at the time for the DC but people still went out and bought the infernal device in their droves.
The 360 is a nice machine, the games in the launch line up are pretty good overall, Perfect Darkbeing the only real let down.
I have no HD set and still can appreciate the increase in detail in each title.
So yes graphics are the most obvious area where the 360 is better that the last gen.
But to those that seem to be expecting so much more, i ask, what exactly do you want?
New Gameplay types?
New ways of entertaining ourselves?
Well, I think you are deluding yourselves, we have waited for a long time for some fundamental shift in gaming of the type when the N64 came out with Mario64 and I am afraid, you are going to be sorely disappointed.
Until the interface itself changes there is little to be done to alter ones gaming experience except to improve graphical realism or other art effects, beef up realism with graphics again and physics, better story telling and where thats not applicable the creation of more spectacular twitch games, like Geometry Wars 2.
If its a new way to play you want, wait for the Revolution, if its an evolution of gaming as you know it, the 360.
Don't kid yourself to thinking that the PS3 is going to be any different, its not, new versions of old game formats, platformers, racers, war games, FPS, RTS, etc.

And as for GT4 being a sim and PGR3 being arcade, yeah, sure, the way the cars in GT4 bounce off barriers and never recieve any damage is really, realy realistic, don't think so, its more like Pokemon for petrol heads, give me PGR, Ridge Racer and Toca any day.

And Halo being over-rated, what planet did you drop from?
It represented the biggest improvement in FPS gaming since Goldeneye and HalfLife, don't know what game you were playing pal.

Vegeta

What a lovely debate we have going here!!

I bought an N64 and PS2 at launch and didn't have to pay those prices for games, come to think of I bought a gamecube at launch also and didn't pay those game prices. I have never paid over 60 euro for a game.

And yes I expect a lot more form the 360 and PS3 games cos they are running on number crunching power houses, AI should be vastly better, the physics in all games could take a step forward, more dynamic interaction with the game environments to name the first few that come into my head.

Ok I agree that I prefer playing PGR3 driving wize cos I suck at driving games and its easire to drive in it but there is so much more depth in games like Forza and GT4

Well I suppose I should let up a little and give it a break, I just looked at all the launch titles for every console there on wikipedia and in fairness the 360 has quite a few. I suppose I'm just disappointed as I was expecting better, its my own high expectations that set me up for a fall, I'm sure I'll be impressed over the course of the year anyway with oblivion and Ghost recon of particular interest to me. I am definitely a quality over quantity man anyday

FrankGrimes

Interesting thread.

I’m normally a very shrewd consumer and will research things to death and will always buy online before purchasing. So I had heard all sorts of horror stories about overheating and noise about the 360 before I bought it, but having played the demos I couldn’t resist. Sensible part of me says I should have waited longer for a quieter and cooler version, but for once I just said screw it and bought it.

My main reason for buying it was for use as a Media Center Extender. I’m 25 and rarely play games though I do enjoy them when I get time, but the gaming side is a bonus as my focus is on using it in the living room as a source for all my media. I had the Extender setup for a few minutes but have run into a bug which is hard to resolve. Well disappointed at MS about this, but for the little while I had it essentially acting as a client of my media center pc it absolutely rocked. Media Center is my single most favourite piece of software ever and now I can dump the PC into the box bedroom and enjoy everything off it in the living room. The xbox is way too noisy but I really don’t notice it when I’m listening to my media – I had promised myself I would take it straight back if I could hear it while watching TV through the media center.

The animated transitions in the slideshows are great, and the visualizations are out of this world (though you have to stream via media connect for this as media center extender cant do it, but its all done from the one remote so whats the difference). And because its taking pride of place in my living room I’m finding I’m picking up the controller and playing more games than I expected (only got it on Sunday though).

To get the most out of the 360 I’d say you need to be using all the media aspects of it. I’m looking forward to getting the streaming setup so I can listen to my own tunes during games.

As for the gaming side, I’m pretty impressed. I have a lend of a mates €2000 philips 30inch crt while he is away for the year and the picture is simply amazing – way better than on my dads Mitsubishi black diamond. When he gets back next year I’ll be getting a HD TV and though I’m delighted with the current pic this will be even better. I have PGR3 and Quake4 (only bought this with the intention of swapping it in a week or two but girlfriend spilt water on it). Only played 30 mintues of Quake but it looks great so I might get into it, and I think PGR3 is class. I totally suck at it but think it plays very well, and the online aspect is class. I’m with most people here in thinking that the price of the games is ridiculous and totally unjustified but do have to say I feel anyone who bought a Core is only bringing extra expense on themselves cos you knew you were gonna need a HD so why not go the whole hog and spend that extra €100 up front and get €200 worth of gear you will need anyway (e.g. headset)?

Bottom line is its flawed, may not be as groundbreaking on the games side YET as some would like, but future games will improve, but it the media side of it is quality and will change your lifestyle so overall IMO it’s worth it.

Vegeta

Very constructive Frank cheers, cool to see someone get a 360 for reasons other than just gaming

MadMoss

Ciaran500 wrote:

Just like every corporation in existence

That fact doesn't negate my point. My point still stands.

Ciaran500 wrote:

They are priced like that because they can get away with it. Its standard for any console launch, just wait it out and prices will drop with competition.

Fair point I think. However, the reason they get away with it is because they have a cosy cartel with other corporations in relation to their price control. Their market would increase if the price was lower I would say.

Ciaran500 wrote:

Microsoft were producing them as fast as they could, every new console and every must have Christmas present has this problem.

You make it sound like Microsoft really cares! We as adults know the reason why Microsoft launched the 360 in the manner they did. No spin can alter their disgraceful behaviour, what I mean is, children do not understand why they are denied a toy which is heavily advertised, targeted at them, and are led to believe is available. This point cannot be argued with in my opinion.

Ciaran500 wrote:

Once again this is standard and expected with new consoles, they take a huge hit on the console they have to get money from somewhere.

I am not sure how your point relates to my complaint regarding backwards compatibility. So I think that my backwards compatibility point still stands. I am not 100% sure that all manufactures take a hit on all consoles. Can anyone else shed more light on this?

Later.

Ciaran500

MadMoss wrote:

That fact doesn't negate my point. My point still stands.

Fair point I think. However, the reason they get away with it is because they have a cosy cartel with other corporations in relation to their price control. Their market would increase if the price was lower I would say.

The point I was making is that its the same every launch or any market where one company has a monopoly. I don't know why you are suprised Microsoft is the same.[/QUOTE]

MadMoss wrote:

You make it sound like Microsoft really cares! We as adults know the reason why Microsoft launched the 360 in the manner they did. No spin can alter their disgraceful behaviour, what I mean is, children do not understand why they are denied a toy which is heavily advertised, targeted at them, and are led to believe is available. This point cannot be argued with in my opinion.

What was disgraceful about the launch? Would it be better if no kids at all got their Xbox360 for christmas so they could build up stock for the Christmas rush.

MadMoss

Ciaran500 wrote:

The point I was making is that its the same every launch or any market where one company has a monopoly. I don't know why you are surprised Microsoft is the same.

If that was your point then fair enough, I didn't cop it from your first post. At least we both seem to agree that Microsoft don't truly care about their customers and only care about maximum profits (, along with many other corporations as you say). BTW I am not surprised that Microsoft "think" this way, l was making a valid point in a debate about the xbox and its manufacturer. You are the first person to mention "surprise"; I don't think there is any need to.

Ciaran500 wrote:

What was disgraceful about the launch? Would it be better if no kids at all got their Xbox360 for Christmas so they could build up stock for the Christmas rush.

I have answered the first question already. See above.
To the second question; yes, it would have been better if no kids at all got the xbox 360 for Christmas rather than disappointing the majority. It would have been better to delay the release until they were better prepared to meet the demand. IMO anyway. As Rev. Lovejoys wife says, “Think of the children, won’t somebody please think of the children.”

Later.

mcgovern

I am not 100% sure that all manufactures take a hit on all consoles. Can anyone else shed more light on this?

Later.

Nintendo usually don't make a loss on consoles, pretty much everyone else does afaik.