Should Catholics be banned from the workplace

Freddie59

Laguna wrote:

In your last diatribe directed at me, you suggested I sanctioned rape and wife beating which clearly demonstrates your mental level of discussion, hurling personal insults at me, that's all you have left, I'll just count the clock until you get banned for abuse.

You're an Islamophobe, you've decided all Muslims are militant, exactly the mindset the media have created and enables them to shovel more bull**** down the throat of. Lets face it, what are the odds you also think all the Polish/Latvians are <cue skanger accent> 'Taking our jobs' or immigrants are here to 'claim benefit'.

People like you hold the world back, with your 'us and them' attitude. The main difference between you and I is, I make my points as to why I dislike the CATHOLIC CHURCH and its preachings, you simply hate Muslims.

Quite the rubbish I would expect.:D In my 'diatribe', if you bother to read it correctly, I pointed out the well-publicised abuse and ill-treatment of women in Islamic countries. On that basis, I asked if you were in favour of rape and wife-beating in order to paint a comparison. You have not answered.

I fail to see what Polish and Latvian migrant workers have to do with this discussion. Have you some kind of problem with them or are you just unable to come up with an adequate counter-argument? Far from being an Islamophobe, I find it difficult to understand how someone can come on here and castigate the Catholic Church (as you have) but yet turn a blind eye to other religions who practice far more deadly and discriminatory policies and beliefs.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And unfortunately throughout history it has ALWAYS been a case of us and them. That's life. Think for a minute. If America did not exist the world would be a far darker place. Yes we're all in a hurry to criticise them, but when the West is in any form of danger who is the first they go running to? You have a simple choice - our current freedoms and quality of living - or the alternate universe which appeared in Afghanistan for a short while. I know which one I'll be choosing.

Cue skanger response.......

Freddie59

lazydaisy wrote:

Im a little confused as to why Iraq and Islam and the politics of 911 are in this discussion. The Iraqi war is being led by two Protestant nations, Britain and the US. In Britain it is illegal for a Catholic to become PM and in the US there has only ever been once Catholic president, JFK.

I am no fan of the catholicism, but I do take exception to visceral support of anti-catholicism as it has too many ethnic undertones to it.

Making sweeping remarks about catholics seem to be the last remaining permission. You can't say anything about Jews or Muslims, but Catholics - it's a free for all. I myself am very anti-clerical, but making derogatory remarks about catholics is as bigoted as making them about anyone else.

Being from New York, of course I grew up and lived with and alongside Muslims. Some of them were across the river in New Jersey celebrating after the planes hit the towers, and others were outwardly disdainful of the actions and were devoted to the cleanup and recovery efforts. I find it highly ironic that non-Islamic Europeans [some on this boards] can justify actions that even the Islamic communities in the US find hateful and unjustifiable.

You have got it in one. Nothing can be added to that statement. Well done.:)

stormkeeper

I find it astounding that because of the actions of a few extremists, people see fit to paint all Muslims with the same brush. I find that disgusting to be honest. I have quite a few Muslim friends over here, and I'm sure all of them would be shocked at the 9/11 bombings. Hell, with what happened at the London Bombings, I'm sure that people here are distrustful of Muslims even more, even though again, it was the work of extremists. I really hate the way that because of a minority of people who take their views too far (that may not even be in-line with their societies views), the majority get classified as evil. This does not just apply to Muslims. It applies to every group. If one person from that group did something wrong, then other people from that same group - even if they don't agree - get tarred with the same brush in that makes people think "Ah, those people, they're all the same..."

I'm pretty sure that's a form of discrimination.


Anyway, to the original topic, I don't believe Catholics should be banned from the workplace. As far as I'm concerned, if I were an employer, my take would be that if you can do the job, and keep your predjudices at the door, then you can come work for me, regardless of religion, colour or sexual orientation. But if I hear someone spout predjudicistic (that even a word?) remarks, they'd be out on their ass just as soon as they said it.

Laguna

Freddie59 wrote:

Quite the rubbish I would expect.:D In my 'diatribe', if you bother to read it correctly, I pointed out the well-publicised abuse and ill-treatment of women in Islamic countries. On that basis, I asked if you were in favour of rape and wife-beating in order to paint a comparison. You have not answered.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I have not answered, another inference I condone/promote rape and wife beating?, go **** yourself, rape/wife beating are sick practices. I'll never subscribe to your xenophobe ways :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:. Carry on living your life through your tunnel vision, I've wasted my time with you. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

(smileys included for your communicative benefit)

Laguna

patzer117 wrote:

And please do not try to justify suicide bombing. I find that offensive and wouldn't allow you in my office.

Where did I justify suicide bombings anyway?, is this what you regard a *justification*

Laguna wrote:

Many of the people who become suicide bombers do so in response to atrocities that have happened to them as a result of western/christian actions, be they bombs/military incursions/political sanctions brought upon them by the west.

Read that again and tell me if I say "I condone/promote/justify suicide bombings", I give my perception on the reasons why the people who become suicide do so.

If the western world had never interfered with the middle east, hadn't carved up Palestine to create Israel, hadn't placed sanctions on Islamic states in that region, do you think there'd be islamic suicide bombers specifically targeting the west?, I don't.
What reason (in their minds; just to spell out that I don't endorse/condone/promote/justify it, for all those purposely misconstruing what I say) would they have to do so?.

Welcome in your office?, what?

I'll say this and then I'll say no more, I'm getting tired.

I am an atheist, I don't believe in God. As someone with a background in Science, I don't believe religion is a natural practice, it has become ingrained into the human psyche over the last couple of millenia and some still have a dependency on it, that doesn't automatically mean I laugh or jibe anyone who believes different to me, that's life, different beliefs and opinions. I bear no ill will to Catholics/Muslims/Jews/Buddhists/Hindus/Sikhs nor would I mock them for their beliefs; why would I?. My problem lies with the instituions of religion themselves, the concept of religion full stop. Freddie59 has a problem with Islamics/Muslims - as a race of people, a belief I cannot and will not subscribe to. Patzer117 assumes I condone/promote/endorse suicide bombing simply because I don't take the standard Daily Mirror/The Sun stance on the issue, I don't condone it, I look at it this way, cause and effect, this concept enables me to see why the suicide bombers feel aggrieved at their treatment by what they perceive as the general 'West', when in reality it is our Governments who act for us, committing acts that many of us don't condone nor want.

fly_agaric

LOL I thought you didn't want to go off topic Laguna!

Laguna wrote:

No, the 'Christian' approach is to load up a B-52 full of every kind of bomb you can think of, drop the load on a 'suspected terrorist haven', actually let me get that right; blanket bomb (i.e. flatten), turn around, reload up with some more bombs and do it again, quite more devastating than a suicide bomber who can only kill once is it not?. Many of the people who become suicide bombers do so in response to atrocities that have happened to them as a result of western/christian actions, be they bombs/military incursions/political sanctions brought upon them by the west.

So the actions of Bush et al are a phenomenon to be laid at the door of Christianity? Not even Catholics either this time! I'd have expected the Pope to be up there cheerleading the war on the Iraqi muslims seeing as the Catholic Church is the root of all evil:) . He really missed a trick by opposing the war now didn't he.
Despite your insistance on not pinning any of the blame for the "martyrs" who blow themselves up for Allah on Islam itself (even if you think they are justified in attacking civilians in Western and Israeli cities becuase of what the US/UK/the West/Israel etc have done, not everyone else does), you are quite prepared to blame the criminal actions of Bush and the US on "Christianity", characterising bombing with B52's as the "Christian approach". No double standard there, eh!:v: :v:
So, is suicide bombing the "Islamic approach" then? Is using porcelain bombs filled with infected fleas the "Shinto Approach"?:)

Laguna wrote:

The muslim psyche?, do you know any muslims on a social level, nay, have you ever met one?; I have, I went to school with many muslims in London and you know what?, they're normal people!, just like you and me!.

You know what, many Christians (even Catholics!:eek: ) are people like you who are "normal people" who don't want to see anybody carpet-bomb with B52's, or blow themselves up to murder others. Can you believe that!

Laguna wrote:

the Iraqi blood and the blood of coalition soldiers who have died all in the glorious name of globalisation?

Since the war ended and the occupation began - who is doing most of the killing? The killing and the dying is going on in the name of Allah as much as in the name of "Globalisation".

Laguna

fly_agaric wrote:

I'd have expected the Pope to be up there cheerleading the Iraq war on the Iraqi muslims seeing as the Catholic Church is the root of all evil:) . He really missed a trick by opposing the war now didn't he.

I was big enough to admit I was over zealous saying Catholicism was the root of all evil, can you accept that?

fly_agaric wrote:

Despite your insistance on not pinning any of the blame for the "martyrs" who blow themselves up for Allah on Islam itself (even if you think they are justified in attacking civilians in Western and Israeli cities becuase of what the US/UK/the West/Israel etc have done, not everyone else does)

LET ME REPEAT THIS FOR THE SIMPLE MINDED, I DON'T FEEL SUICIDE BOMBING IS JUSTIFIED, TELL ME WHERE I SAID IT WAS

fly_agaric wrote:

Since the war ended and the occupation began - who is doing most of the killing? The killing and the dying is going on in the name of Allah as much as in the name of "Globalisation".

Maybe it continues because a sovereign nation is being occupied illegally by a military force?, discontent at being occupied?, much like Northen Ireland?, what did the catholics do to some of the British soldiers who were there?, give them sweets?

fly_agaric

Laguna wrote:

Read that again and tell me if I say "I condone/promote/justify suicide bombings", I give my perception on the reasons why the people who become suicide do so.

You implied that suicide bombing (of civilians) was a lesser evil than killing of civilians in a bombing raid. The suicide bomber can only blow himself up once and cannot kill as many as muliple bombing runs would. If it is a lesser evil, perhaps it is more easy to justify?

I think some Al Qaeda Islamic scholar has used this kind of logic to justify the use of nukes against "infidel cities" (the numbers of deaths caused would probably be only equal to or less than the numbers of deaths caused by Western interference in the middle East).

I hope this makes you feel better if you happen to become a stain on the ground when you are caught in the wrong European city if the lads do get their hands on a nuke.

fly_agaric

Laguna wrote:

I was big enough to admit I was over zealous saying Catholicism was the root of all evil, can you accept that?

Okay. I did add the to take the harm out of it a bit.

Laguna wrote:

LET ME REPEAT THIS FOR THE SIMPLE MINDED, I DON'T FEEL SUICIDE BOMBING IS JUSTIFIED, TELL ME WHERE I SAID IT WAS

See my last post.

Laguna wrote:

Maybe it continues because a sovereign nation is being occupied illegally by a military force?, discontent at being occupied?, much like Northen Ireland?, what did the catholics do to some of the British soldiers who were there?, give them sweets?

I think the Catholics were pleased to have the troops there at first.
I agree with what you say though, but I don't see the violence dying down if the US troops leave. The government will still be seen as a "US/Western puppet" in the eyes of many Iraqis. The religious and ethnic strife between Iraqis will remain a problem after the occupiers leave. Especially if some groups feel the government doesn't represent them. I'm sure it will be blamed on the US too. The Islamic extremists who want to talibanise Iraq will still be there causing trouble also.

Freddie59

Laguna wrote:

I don't believe in God.

I really feel sorry for you.:(

Laguna

Freddie59 wrote:

I really feel sorry for you.:(

I'd rather you didn't, I don't want your pity.

Sangre

Freddie59 wrote:

I really feel sorry for you.:(

hahaha!

patzer117

whether or not some Catholics support the war is irrelevant - they clearly do though. The Church were strongly against the war, as were many religious people too. The difference between the suicide bomber and the bomb dropper is that the suicide bomber is doing (in many cases, certainly 9/11) as part of his religion to kill all infidels, while the bomb dropper is doing it (according to you guys, not me, i have a completely different opinion) to spead Capitalism, not religion and in no way does religion come into the equation when he is doing it.

This thread has gone completely off topic, but that's a good thing, because at least people are now able to see that there are two sides to the arguements, and that there is a great deal of misunderstanding. Instead of banning Catholic symbols or religious zealots from the workplace, i think this thread proves dialogue to increase understanding would be more appropriate .

DamoKen

Kennett wrote:

I find it astounding that because of the actions of a few extremists, people see fit to paint all Muslims with the same brush. I find that disgusting to be honest. I have quite a few Muslim friends over here, and I'm sure all of them would be shocked at the 9/11 bombings. Hell, with what happened at the London Bombings, I'm sure that people here are distrustful of Muslims even more, even though again, it was the work of extremists. I really hate the way that because of a minority of people who take their views too far (that may not even be in-line with their societies views), the majority get classified as evil. This does not just apply to Muslims. It applies to every group. If one person from that group did something wrong, then other people from that same group - even if they don't agree - get tarred with the same brush in that makes people think "Ah, those people, they're all the same..."

I'm pretty sure that's a form of discrimination.


Anyway, to the original topic, I don't believe Catholics should be banned from the workplace. As far as I'm concerned, if I were an employer, my take would be that if you can do the job, and keep your predjudices at the door, then you can come work for me, regardless of religion, colour or sexual orientation. But if I hear someone spout predjudicistic (that even a word?) remarks, they'd be out on their ass just as soon as they said it.

I find it a little strange that you get outraged and disgusted by some of the posters views on Islam extremists, tarring with the same brush etc, stating that it is a form of discrimination, and then in the same breath go on to rationally discuss why you would not ban people of a certain religion based on their religion alone. Surely this whole topic apart from the OP's breath taking ignorance and generalisations is completely discriminatory?

stormkeeper

DamoKen wrote:

I find it a little strange that you get outraged and disgusted by some of the posters views on Islam extremists, tarring with the same brush etc, stating that it is a form of discrimination, and then in the same breath go on to rationally discuss why you would not ban people of a certain religion based on their religion alone. Surely this whole topic apart from the OP's breath taking ignorance and generalisations is completely discriminatory?

Eh, I really don't know. I really don't think I'm capable of explaining what I said at the moment...

GLaDOS

Its discrimination, would you tell a Muslim that their fired for beliving in Allah ?I should hope not.

Vangelis

How about this: Should atheists be banned from their workplace?
I don't think so, but I'm excited to see the reaction to that question.

Zombrex

Vangelis wrote:

How about this: Should atheists be banned from their workplace?

Firstly, that doesn't make sense since Atheism isn't a religion

Secondly, the OP expanded on the title of the thread by saying it is not Catholics themselves that should be banned, but displays and actions of a religious nature. So if you disagree with that, tackle that point. You would probably have a stronger argument if you said people should not be allowed put up signs on their desks that say "There is no God and we evolved from fish"

Zombrex

ScienceNerd wrote:

Would you tell a Muslim that their fired for beliving in Allah?

Certainly not, they would chop off your head and blow up your desk!

Zombrex

Think people are reading the thread title and jumping in feet first from there while failing to read the actual original post itself.

The OP was saying should Catholics be banned from being openly religious in the work place, not simply banned for being Catholics. So try to stick to the OP's point please, not just the rather badly phrased thread title.

Hobbes

Wicknight wrote:

*drivel*

That is somewhat offensive.

I should point out that a lot of the misconceptions posted here about Islam have been done to death on the Islam forum and you can get more precise details on them (failing that, ask there). I assume the muslim stuff people are posting are doing it here because it wouldn't fly in that particular forum.

Zombrex

Hobbes wrote:

That is somewhat offensive.

Its offensive to say Muslims will chop you up and blow up your desks ... who knew ...



(spot the sarcasim, in both posts)

larryone

Your posts dont come accross as sarcastic, they come accross as ignorant, bigoted and blatantly offensive.
This is a problem with online discussions - you cant type in a particular tone of voice. When you're dealing with a delicate topic like this could you please say what you mean and mean what you say?

Zombrex

larryone wrote:

Your posts dont come accross as sarcastic, they come accross as ignorant, bigoted and blatantly offensive.
This is a problem with online discussions - you cant type in a particular tone of voice. When you're dealing with a delicate topic like this could you please say what you mean and mean what you say?

Sigh ... It is true, the internet and smilies (:) ) have killed the art of writing ...

Appologies for the confusion to yourself larryone, and hobbes. As soon as I get my time machine working I will be sure to go back to 1726 and make sure Swift inserts a few ":-)" and ";-)" every second line of Gulliver's Travels and A Tale of a Tub, just in case anyone thinks he is actually supporting religious and political excess.....

of course my original post should have been -

Certainly not, they would chop off your head and blow up your desk!
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

now thats sarcasim ...

Tusky

Relgion should be a private act and should be done within ones own home.

larryone

Tusky wrote:

Relgion should be a private act and should be done within ones own home.

But religion and/or spirituality is also a matter of how you live your whole life, not just how you live at home. Those who do/dont follow particular religious paths of their choosing should be more tolerant of others, and not try to shove it down other peoples throats (IMHO). Passively having a display of whatever religious iconic items in your personal workspace or wearing such on your person is OK I reckon. Just as long as they dont try preach it actively.

Freddie59

Wicknight wrote:

Certainly not, they would chop off your head and blow up your desk!

Exactly! And they hate their religion to be berated. While they are most certainly over the top on this, it's peculiar that they then come to the West and condemn our 'immoral' values. While at the same time dragging their daughters back to Pakistan and the like for forced marriages because they don't want them to become 'Westernised'. Why do they come here in the first instance?

Freddie59

Hobbes wrote:

That is somewhat offensive.

I should point out that a lot of the misconceptions posted here about Islam have been done to death on the Islam forum and you can get more precise details on them (failing that, ask there). I assume the muslim stuff people are posting are doing it here because it wouldn't fly in that particular forum.

An exactly why wouldn't it fly? As usual they cannot take criticism (indeed hate the thought of anyone criticising their 'perfect' religion - who else would issue a death sentence for someone writing a book). If that was the case the Catholic Church would have issued death sentences for the posts here alone!

Yeah - Islam. I'm shaking in my boots. Wouldn't dare go to the Islam forum..........whooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!:rolleyes:

Freddie59

Freddie59 wrote:

Exactly! And they hate their religion to be berated. While they are most certainly over the top on this, it's peculiar that they then come to the West and condemn our 'immoral' values. While at the same time dragging their daughters back to Pakistan and the like for forced marriages because they don't want them to become 'Westernised'. Why do they come here in the first instance?

They admire our ability to make generalizations

larryone

Freddie59 wrote:

If that was the case the Catholic Church would have issued death sentences for the posts here alone!

Many people at various points in history have been executed for heresy. By Catholicism.