Should Catholics be banned from the workplace

stevenmu

Thaedydal wrote:

Thinking homosexuality is wrong for YOU doesn't make you prejudiced.
Thinking that it is wrong for anyone else and the world in general is prejudiced.

I'd disagree with you here, altough it's probably only a technicality. I personally think homosexuality is 'wrong'. Altough the way I see it, it's wrong in the same sense that somebody saying 2 + 2 = 5 is wrong. I mean that as far as I'm concerned it's just not the 'right' way to be. I don't think it's 'evil' or going to cause any huge catastrophe I just think it's the wrong ...
choice is probably the wrong word, but I think you see where I'm going. I'd even go as far as to say that I'm 'prejudiced', 'pre' equalling before/already, 'judiced' meaning judged/decided, and basically I've already decided that homosexuality is wrong (wrong being defined above). Tbh, I'm quite happy to admit that I am prejudiced against homosexuals, and I don't see anything wrong with this. I think that I'm as entitled to this opinion as the most pro-homosexuality people are (be they actual homosexuals or not, /*nods to Rozie*/) to their opinion.

When people take their prejudices and turn them into discrimination, that's a different matter i.e. not hiring someone because of their sexuality, or not being friendly/neighbourly to someon 'cos they're gay.

To tie this back into the original topic, I don't think that Catholics or homophobes (and the 2 aren't nessecarily linked these days) should be excluded from the workplace, there's a difference between being prejudiced (which I think is ok) and discriminitory (which I think isn't). As long as Catholics can agree to get along with Homosexuals (and according to their previous Pope they should, and I think with the current one too), and Homosexuals can get along with Catholics, and I don't see why they shouldn't, then there's no reason for either group to exclude the other from the workplace or any other place.



(and before anyone asks if I actually know or am friends with any homosexuals, well I only think of myself as friends with one, but she's a bit....
In general I'd be quite happy to be friends with gay people but for whatever reason the only other outwardly gay people I know are complete fúcktárds, but that's only 4 or 5, I'm more than willing to believe that most gay people are just as nice as the rest of us and I've only met the minority of dodgy ones. )

Rozie

Sangre wrote:

Hardly. I think that all homosexual acts by anyone are evil and still be tolerant of them.

This is still discriminative because of the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice, no matter what you claim to believe, this much is essentially proven, whatever causes it. If homosexual actions were a choice, it wouldn't be right to discriminate against it, but you could still potentially lay claim to that argument.

However, because of the fact that "Homosexual acts are evil" is a thoroughly non sequitor argument, you're wrong either way.

Having an "Opinion" on homosexuality is pretty stupid anyway. There is no reason how it's any different from having an "Opinion" on builders, people who drink cocoa at around 2 AM before they go to bed, drummers, and ballet dancers; except for the fact that homosexuality isn't a choice therefore it should be even more trivial an "Opinion". It's ridiculous to make a deal out of it like most people do; claiming it's some kind of scared belief.

It's not. Homosexuality is an entirely natural behaviour certain people engage in because they are wired in a way that makes them desire it. You are not. Thinking homosexuality is evil is just around about way of thinking homosexuals are somehow inferior, since they cannot live a happy life without engaging in homosexual acts, unlike heterosexual people. It's a sly and nasty way of doing it, too.

If you make a deal out of having an opinion on homosexuality anymore than you have an opinion on people with small noses, then you're just looking for trouble.

StupidLikeAFox

Homosexuality isnt a choice. Homosexual acts are choice, just because your homosexual doesnt mean you *have* to do the acts.

Also if someone says "I think homosexual acts are evil" you can say whether hes right or wrong, chances are he wont change his mind tho

Rozie

ColHol wrote:

Homosexuality isnt a choice. Homosexual acts are choice, just because your homosexual doesnt mean you *have* to do the acts.

Also if someone says "I think homosexual acts are evil" you can say whether hes right or wrong, chances are he wont change his mind tho

Homosexual acts are only a choice in the same way heterosexual acts are a choice.

Living your life completely without sex, romance, and companionship isn't terrible pleasurable. Does God tortue people just for the way they were born/conditioned?

Karl Hungus

seamus wrote:

There's enough bull**** PC stifling of freedom of expression in this world without another such thing.

Agreed.

Political Correctness offends me tbh. I would like to see it banned.

Blub2k4

seamus wrote:

Many of the Bible bashers would also swear to you that they are not catholic out of choice (rather it's just what they are).

But that would only be correct insofar as the Catholic church tells them that they are catholic for life etc etc... like myself it is something one can easily reject by not adhering to their rules, they can claim that I am still catholic but I can choose not to be, if I were aroused by visual images of naked men or other such homosexual fantasies then I could not choose to let the blood rush so to speak....

Blub2k4

Karl Hungus wrote:

Agreed.

Political Correctness offends me tbh. I would like to see it banned.

*badum tish*

Laguna

I don't think Catholics should be banned from the workplace, I don't believe in exclusion in any form. I will however concede that there's nothing more irritating than a devout Catholic who likes to push their views on you, especially so if you're an atheist or a follower of another religion. Catholicism as a religion is based on non tolerance, why can't a gay person become a priest?, why does it matter?, priests aren't supposed to be having sex with anyone in the first place (when did that ever stop them).

It says phrases in the bible such as "turn the other cheek" and "love thy neighbour", how is it that Catholics initiated the Crusades as well as many other bloody wars against opposing religions (not forgetting the fact Hitler himself was a Catholic) yet are able to pray to a God whos main mantra is loving thy neighbour/brother irrespective of your differences?.

I'm not a Catholic so maybe someone can explain to me, how can anyone *really* believe in anything about Catholicism considering it's a religion that was created by a Roman emperor who changed to being a Christian simply because he perceived the general consensus of Rome as doing the same (the very same people who used to throw Christians to Lions), surely people would rationalise anything that Catholicism preaches is derived from men who used it as a method of contro and tool of popularity?..

Sangre

I actually meant to say that one could think that all homosexual acts are evil and still be tolerant. (perhaps a freudian slip?)

Rozie you're constantly arguing your opinion as fact, please stop its rather annoying.

fly_agaric

Laguna wrote:

I will however concede that there's nothing more irritating than a devout Catholic who likes to push their views on you, especially so if you're an atheist or a follower of another religion.

Really.
There is nothing more irritating (IMO) than devotees of any religion who want to ram their creed down other people's throats. This of course includes secular types who endlessly lecture us all about the great evils of the Catholic church but are too right-on to ever dare to criticise any other religion.

Laguna wrote:

It says phrases in the bible such as "turn the other cheek" and "love thy neighbour", how is it that Catholics initiated the Crusades as well as many other bloody wars against opposing religions

The crusades happened before all that stuff to do with Martin Luther so they are part of all Western European Christian's religious history. Nice one pinning it on Catholics though. Sure isn't Catholicism the root of all evil?:rolleyes:

Laguna wrote:

(not forgetting the fact Hitler himself was a Catholic)

:rolleyes: again.

Laguna

All religion is infantile in my opinion, the thread is titled should catholics be allowed in the workplace, therefore I stay on topic and talk about Catholics, if I were to include Judaism/Islam what else what I be doing but including them for includings sake?

Laguna

fly_agaric wrote:

Sure isn't Catholicism the root of all evil?:rolleyes:

In a word, yes.

fly_agaric

Laguna wrote:

All religion is infantile in my opinion, the thread is titled should catholics be allowed in the workplace, therefore I stay on topic and talk about Catholics, if I were to include Judaism/Islam what else what I be doing but including them for includings sake?

I suppose I was nit-picking. You implied that the devout Catholics are more irritating than other religious zealots pushing the faith on their unwilling victims.

Laguna wrote:

In a word, yes.

:eek:

Laguna

Laguna wrote:

In a word, yes.

No evil existed before the Catholic Church church came into existence?

Don't be so ridiculous.

Honestly what is the point in lying so blatantly?

Laguna

Fair enough, it was a little hasty for me to say Catholicism is the root of ALL evil, yet I still feel it is a religion thats main offerings are intolerance, opression and misery.

Freddie59

Hagar wrote:

If the Pope is so much against homosexuality why does he go around dressed like a queen?

A typically disrespectful comment. At least in this country you CAN criticise the Catholic church (and others with it). If you passed the above comment about a Muslim icon you wouldn't be around very long. (Oh I forgot - they don't have freedom of speech...:eek: ).

Say what you like but at least try to show some respect. As a Catholic (and probably an a la carte one as quoted earlier) I find it sad that so many are so quick to row in with the criticisms.

This thread has swung between a Naziesque comment about banning people and icons to the downright aethiestic like the one above. As a Catholic I do not shove my religion down other people's throats, am prepared to live and let live, but am saddened to see what some Irish people descend to in their views.

Were it not for the religious institutions (and yes I too am disgusted at the activities of the paedophiles in their ranks) many in this country would not have received an education.

We are now facing into an era in Europe, where, if things are not controlled, we could see an Islamist Europe within 50 to 100 years. And compared to that, my friends, the activities of the Catholic Church will pale in comparison. Need I mention the Taleban in Afghanistan, who were seen by Osama bin Laden as 'just getting it right' with their version of a fundamentalist Muslim state.:mad:

Laguna

Freddie59 wrote:

If you passed the above comment about a Muslim icon you wouldn't be around very long. (Oh I forgot - they don't have freedom of speech...:eek: ).

Hmm, what do you know about Islam apart from what you're spoon fed by a predominantly fundamentalist Christian media?. Hey, you know what?, your comment above is

Freddie59 wrote:

A typically disrespectful comment.

Freddie59

Laguna wrote:

Hmm, what do you know about Islam apart from what you're spoon fed by a predominantly fundamentalist Christian media?. Hey, you know what?, your comment above is

Didn't see any Catholics flying planeloads of innocent people into buildings full of more innocent people.........or is that just another spoonful from a 'predominantly fundamentalist Christian media'?:eek:

And by the way if you read a book called 'Holy War Inc' it is an amazing eye opener into the Muslim psyche. I would recommend you read it before offering any further advice.;)

patzer117

Laguna wrote:

Catholicism as a religion is based on non tolerance, why can't a gay person become a priest?, why does it matter?, priests aren't supposed to be having sex with anyone in the first place (when did that ever stop them).

It says phrases in the bible such as "turn the other cheek" and "love thy neighbour", how is it that Catholics initiated the Crusades as well as many other bloody wars against opposing religions (not forgetting the fact Hitler himself was a Catholic) yet are able to pray to a God whos main mantra is loving thy neighbour/brother irrespective of your differences?.

I'm not a Catholic so maybe someone can explain to me, how can anyone *really* believe in anything about Catholicism considering it's a religion that was created by a Roman emperor who changed to being a Christian simply because he perceived the general consensus of Rome as doing the same (the very same people who used to throw Christians to Lions), surely people would rationalise anything that Catholicism preaches is derived from men who used it as a method of contro and tool of popularity?..

Hmm, on your first part well of course homosexuals are allowed become priests, just not practising homosexuals.

2nd yes it says love thy neighbour and nobody ever said homosexuals are evil, just that homosexuality is evil. Love the sinner, hate the sin. That's my belief and what Catholocism should be. As for the Crusades, get over them. Lets talk about the present. If we were to talk about what pagans did 1000 years ago you'd shoot us down too. Deal with the present. The Church has done much more good than it has bad. Surely everyone can admit that is true?

3rd Catholocism was not founded by an emperor changing to being a Christian. If you are talking about Constantine his mother told him to change and he had a dream before a battle where God appeared to him and said 'in this sign you will be victorious'. Nothing to do with pleasing the population.
And even if it was pleasing the population - well that means that the population was pro-Catholocism anyway so it wasn't founded by him in that case anyway :rolleyes: . Grr Arg again.

If you're going to sprout stuff then check the facts first.

Laguna

Freddie59 wrote:

Didn't see any Catholics flying planeloads of innocent people into buildings full of more innocent people.........or is that just another spoonful from a 'predominantly fundamentalist Christian media'?:eek:

No, the 'Christian' approach is to load up a B-52 full of every kind of bomb you can think of, drop the load on a 'suspected terrorist haven', actually let me get that right; blanket bomb (i.e. flatten), turn around, reload up with some more bombs and do it again, quite more devastating than a suicide bomber who can only kill once is it not?. Many of the people who become suicide bombers do so in response to atrocities that have happened to them as a result of western/christian actions, be they bombs/military incursions/political sanctions brought upon them by the west. Why do Christians bomb islamic states?, hmm, oil?, the need for a scapegoat?, or the all time classic; weapons of mass destruction?

Freddie59 wrote:

And by the way if you read a book called 'Holy War Inc' it is an amazing eye opener into the Muslim psyche. I would recommend you read it before offering any further advice.;)

The muslim psyche?, do you know any muslims on a social level, nay, have you ever met one?; I have, I went to school with many muslims in London and you know what?, they're normal people!, just like you and me!.

What's the psyche of people like Bush/Blair/Rumsfeld/Cheney who use your religion as a smokescreen to line their pockets full of oil money?. Does it not turn your stomach when you see murderers like Bush et al broadcast on television preaching christian values *edit* the 'American' way with all the Iraqi blood and the blood of coalition soldiers who have died all in the glorious name of globalisation?

patzer117

Again Laguna, I think you'll find the Catholic Church was against that war. And said it too, plenty of times. And Bush isn't a Catholic, and neither is Blair. Nor are most of the soldiers that are fighting/dropping bombs. Not that it makes much of a difference:rolleyes:

And please do not try to justify suicide bombing. I find that offensive and wouldn't allow you in my office. Whatever about what some Christians do, I don't think they acted in the name of the Catholic Church and the bible, while many of the muslim suicide bombers did act in the name of the Koran. That's what makes what they did something to do with their religion. Bush and Blair went to war according to you, not as Christians, but as Capitalists.

*post completely edited my apologies*

Laguna

patzer117 wrote:

Again Laguna, I think you'll find the Catholic Church was against that war. And said it too, plenty of times. And Bush isn't a Catholic, and neither is Blair. And neither are most of the soldiers that are fighting/dropping bombs. Not that it makes much of a difference:rolleyes:

They're Christian aren't they?, those who doesn't believe in the immaculate conception such as Church of England/Baptists don't fall under the Christian umbrella anymore?.

the_syco

Thaedydal wrote:

Sounds like you need a better defination of paganism and pagans

I already had the talk. I was being sarcastic.

Rozie wrote:

It's ridiculous to make a deal out of it like most people do; claiming it's some kind of scared belief.

Reread this, Rozie. Carefully. Cos you're guilty of it.

Rozie wrote:

Does God tortue people just for the way they were born/conditioned?

Yeah, seemingly so. Sex is a sin, seemingly, if you do it outside marraige.

This of course includes secular types who endlessly lecture us all about the great evils of the Catholic church but are too right-on to ever dare to criticise any other religion.

Be worried for getting banned for slagging off [strike]the towel heads[/strike] them.

Freddie59 wrote:

(Oh I forgot - they don't have freedom of speech...:eek:

Ah, STFU. We can speak freely because the church is not in charge anymore. If it were, there'd be still loads of restriction.

Freddie59 wrote:

Didn't see any Catholics flying planeloads of innocent people into buildings full of more innocent people

Aye. We just drop bombs on them. Lots of bombs. Or test your newest bomb on the japs. And then, once you know it works, test it a few times on your own soldiers.

patzer117 wrote:

Hmm, on your first part well of course homosexuals are allowed become priests, just not practising homosexuals.

For 3 years. Not practising for 3 years. If you fúck little kids, tho, they'll just move you to a new parish.

patzer117 wrote:

Catholocism was not founded by an emperor changing to being a Christian.

Aye. They picked the nice bits out of the different books, and made it out of that.

patzer117 wrote:

Not that it makes much of a difference:rolleyes:

No, lad, it doesn't make any difference. For those who plan the crashes into buildings just use religon as a tool to fight the enemy.

Laguna

I'm glad the_syco tells it like it is, maybe then I can't be dismissed as a Catholic-hater if he too sees the hypocrisy and major flaws within Catholicism. It completely slipped my mind about Catholic controlled Ireland of yesteryear, freedom of speech Freddie59?, lol, the church state banned James Bond!:rolleyes:

Freddie59

Laguna wrote:

No, the 'Christian' approach is to load up a B-52 full of every kind of bomb you can think of, drop the load on a 'suspected terrorist haven', actually let me get that right; blanket bomb (i.e. flatten), turn around, reload up with some more bombs and do it again, quite more devastating than a suicide bomber who can only kill once is it not?. Many of the people who become suicide bombers do so in response to atrocities that have happened to them as a result of western/christian actions, be they bombs/military incursions/political sanctions brought upon them by the west. Why do Christians bomb islamic states?, hmm, oil?, the need for a scapegoat?, or the all time classic; weapons of mass destruction?

The muslim psyche?, do you know any muslims on a social level, nay, have you ever met one?; I have, I went to school with many muslims in London and you know what?, they're normal people!, just like you and me!.

What's the psyche of people like Bush/Blair/Rumsfeld/Cheney who use your religion as a smokescreen to line their pockets full of oil money?. Does it not turn your stomach when you see murderers like Bush et al broadcast on television preaching christian values *edit* the 'American' way with all the Iraqi blood and the blood of coalition soldiers who have died all in the glorious name of globalisation?

I'll take the Americans ahead of a so-called culture which treats women as second-class citizens; hides behind religion (there's 77 virgins waiting on the other side when you blow yourself up); and has the audacity to stamp people into the ground in Afghanistan while driving Imperialist Western 4x4s; wearing Wrangler jeans; and toting Western-made guns.

Yes the Islamic culture is definitely forward-looking. Very normal people. You don't support wife-beating and rape by any chance - do you? The Americans have their faults - no doubt about it. Don't we all? The same 'globalisation' you so criticise has allowed you the freedom of speech to do so. What an irony! Don't think you and the scum on the streets of Hong Kong this week would get the chance to do so in Tehran (unless it was "Government" sanctioned of course).:rolleyes:

People like you make me laugh.:D Yeah - as Father Ted would say - down with that sort of thing. I'll live in the West and criticise the balls of it.......but don't ask me to live in the middle of what I purport to defend.

I suppose by justifying the slaughter at the World Trade Centre you would argue that we should hold off bombing ANY suspected terrorist camps before we are 100% sure. You live in a very happy and unrealistic place......far from the realities. Enjoy your freedom of speech, won long ago by the Western powers you so despise. It may not last much longer, given the amount of bleeding hearts out there like you.;)

Freddie59

the_syco wrote:

Ah, STFU. We can speak freely because the church is not in charge anymore. If it were, there'd be still loads of restriction.

Yeah it's great, isn't it - freedom of speech. Wouldn't last long with people like you around to defend it. As for Laguna's quote on James Bond......jsut like to remind you that, as far as I know, he wasn't a real person......:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Freddie59

patzer117 wrote:

Again Laguna, I think you'll find the Catholic Church was against that war. And said it too, plenty of times. And Bush isn't a Catholic, and neither is Blair. Nor are most of the soldiers that are fighting/dropping bombs. Not that it makes much of a difference:rolleyes:

And please do not try to justify suicide bombing. I find that offensive and wouldn't allow you in my office. Whatever about what some Christians do, I don't think they acted in the name of the Catholic Church and the bible, while many of the muslim suicide bombers did act in the name of the Koran. That's what makes what they did something to do with their religion. Bush and Blair went to war according to you, not as Christians, but as Capitalists.

*post completely edited my apologies*

Yes - but what are they supposed to do - stand idly by and let Western civilsation collapse and be beholden to a few Arabs?

lazydaisy

Im a little confused as to why Iraq and Islam and the politics of 911 are in this discussion. The Iraqi war is being led by two Protestant nations, Britain and the US. In Britain it is illegal for a Catholic to become PM and in the US there has only ever been once Catholic president, JFK.

I am no fan of the catholicism, but I do take exception to visceral support of anti-catholicism as it has too many ethnic undertones to it.

Making sweeping remarks about catholics seem to be the last remaining permission. You can't say anything about Jews or Muslims, but Catholics - it's a free for all. I myself am very anti-clerical, but making derogatory remarks about catholics is as bigoted as making them about anyone else.

Being from New York, of course I grew up and lived with and alongside Muslims. Some of them were across the river in New Jersey celebrating after the planes hit the towers, and others were outwardly disdainful of the actions and were devoted to the cleanup and recovery efforts. I find it highly ironic that non-Islamic Europeans [some on this boards] can justify actions that even the Islamic communities in the US find hateful and unjustifiable.

Laguna

Freddie59 wrote:

Yeah it's great, isn't it - freedom of speech. Wouldn't last long with people like you around to defend it. As for Laguna's quote on James Bond......jsut like to remind you that, as far as I know, he wasn't a real person......:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

By using a numerous amount of smileys who roll their eyes, do you feel they support your claims and offer what you have to say more validity?; are they your friends; do they not judge you?. Hey, lets all play that game :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Freedom of speech?, yeah, okay, no country or society on earth offers true freedom of speech, as demonstrated so often on this thread.

In your last diatribe directed at me, you suggested I sanctioned rape and wife beating which clearly demonstrates your mental level of discussion, hurling personal insults at me, that's all you have left, I'll just count the clock until you get banned for abuse.

You're an Islamophobe, you've decided all Muslims are militant, exactly the mindset the media have created and enables them to shovel more bull**** down the throat of. Lets face it, what are the odds you also think all the Polish/Latvians are <cue skanger accent> 'Taking our jobs' or immigrants are here to 'claim benefit'.

People like you hold the world back, with your 'us and them' attitude. The main difference between you and I is, I make my points as to why I dislike the CATHOLIC CHURCH and its preachings, you simply hate Muslims.

pwd

how can you not be in favour of homosexuality?
it's like saying you're not in favour of people with freckles. why'd they choose to be all freckly? fair enough they could stop being freckly by putting make-up on. really only a person wearing such make-up would feel like this you know.