Waterford North Quays

Kilkenny36

I am so underwhelmed by what i see with the north quays. It really will be another railway square. Nothing to encourage people over there. A few cafe's under apartment buildings that aren't great to look at. We have learnt nothing from the area around O'Connell street/Bridge street and Railway square. Leaving the private sector decide what is viable is ruining our cities. Nothing iconic here. The government have forked out 10's of millions of euro for a developer to come a build the cheapest boxes to sell for maximum profit. Anyone who says just build it, better than nothing are the same people who are responsible for O'Connell Street area and railway square. This will add nothing to the city, I get apartments are needed but Waterford is not stuck for space. The north quays should have been about a lot more. Honestly a waterfront park with no development would have been better.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142059#Comment_122142059

It could be better but it has to be commercially viable.

Kilkenny36

But it doesn't. That's just a way of thinking. Is the peoples park commercially viable? Is the mellenium plaza, the clock tower? It could be full of cultural spaces, museums, entertainment etc. Plus the apartment buildings themselves could be so much better. Not a load of shoe boxes lined up. Everyone accepts if because it's just the way it is. Here is an example of a development in Durham in UK. Similar size city to Waterford 50k population. Far superior to what's planned in Waterford.

PV_View+01-+River+View+(Medium).jpg

914

Phase 1 you would expect apartments and a hotel. One would expect the thought process is, get people living/staying there and that greatly increases the chances of further retail and other activities in later phases.

All I would like to see is a bit more ambition in the design. The post above of Durham has imagination, different shaped buildings, different colours, a bit of character.

I feel the plan now and renders just looks a bit bland and could pass for anywhere in the world, as I previously said in an earlier post it would be great to see something iconic and I'm not even speaking an extremely tall building, a building that stands out with character that when you see it in a picture you instantly go "that's Waterford".

Waterford gets one shot and one shot only at the North Quays so let's just get it right, let's not look across in 10, 20, 30, 40 (I'd be doing well to be still here for that) years and think "they had no imagination in 20s".

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142697#Comment_122142697

Nice to see your interest, but the Durham stuff is post apocalyptic crap too. CAD designed boxes from a child's puzzle posing as urban design, piled haphazardly into the riverfront space. It looks like that woeful Dundrum Town Centre in Dublin, on a larger, uglier scale. And look, WOW, one of the buildings has a sloping roof!!! Bah.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142697#Comment_122142697

I agree it could be more beautiful and interesting whilst still being functional and commercially viable.

I think in Ireland in general we've mostly boring architecture.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122142900#Comment_122142900

I agree. It should be something unique to Waterford that you immediately recognise. It's a very prominent site and the first thing visitors will see.

Maybe something that echoes Waterford Crystal or something would be more interesting.

I'm not certain the render in the article is exactly what's going in there though. We'll have to wait and see.

The thing is, I'm certain architects in Ireland study great architecture from across the world, but when it comes to actually building something, we end up with boring, functional buildings.

So I guess it's the developers vision we end up with.

greenspurs

Lots of different images when you google Waterford North Quays ….

You would hope that someone has the liathroidi to say lets be brave, lets do something different than 8 box apartment blocks !!
It will be there 'forever' , so make it good.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122136461#Comment_122136461

Looks like I was bang on the money about the apartments. It's all about apartments now. Hotel shortened by 5 storeys and so little faith in the office space that they lumped it in with the miniscule amount of retail that they offered.

Hard to get excited about anything laid out there.

Deiseen

Parking and housing. Are you not excited!!!!

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122144027#Comment_122144027

Three of those renders are falcons designs I believe

azimuth17

This is what I like, Copenhagens Old Town Indre By. Could we not do something like this on an updated scale?

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147363#Comment_122147363

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122147367#Comment_122147367

But " shur tis better than nothing" ……..

😏

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122148018#Comment_122148018

It is better than whats there but could have been so much more.

Dexpat

As usual and predictably, there’s a lot of negativity about a project that anywhere else would be delighted with.

I agree it’s disappointing that the tallest building is smaller than it was expected to be and there’s nothing iconic in the designs. There might be scope for that in later phases.

However, as has been stated by me and others, the outcome is based on what is deliverable on a riverside site that has been derelict for 20 years. No matter how much people want something different, their views are not viable in terms of design cost and/or commercial viability. That’s the reality.

This doesn’t mean that ‘shur it’s better than nothing ‘ or it’s just another railway square, or putting it down based on the amount of apartments.

Rather than being a negative, lots of apartments is exactly what the development and the city centre needs to increase vitality. The centre of most towns and cities in the western world have been hollowed out in the last 60 years. Like it or not, high density city centre living is the future, and this scheme recognizes that.

While there are more details to be seen, I certainly don’t think that we are settling for second best. The plaza on the south quays will add greenery and make a start on removing cars from that side of the river. The Waterford and Wexford greenways will meet at the site, having a huge positive effect on tourism. This will be supported by two new hotels and a conference centre to meet that demand.

The new bridge will have the potential to add an iconic element to the project. I reckon in future years it will be instantly recognizable as a symbol of Waterford.

Sure, a lot will come down to the final building designs and quality of finish, but I’m happy with the content of phase one. Maybe anyone who isn’t happy can cite research (not anecdotes) which makes a different approach more viable.

Valhalla90

The hotel could have been taller. While it’s better than dereliction there’s nothing exciting or iconic with these plans. Disappointing. I don’t like the idea of these temporary car parks either. That can be temporary for 20 years in Ireland.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150441#Comment_122150441

I'd agree with the "temporary" car parks, if they make money they will remain for an extended period of time. I'd much prefer to see a temporary Greenland park or something.

I would have loved to see some imagination with phase one but it doesn't have it. Hopefully they fill the apartments and offices and that in turn delivered phase 2 and 3 where we should see some imagination (hopefully).

I also agree with the hotel, I felt that could have been the iconic piece. Tall building with a rooftop bar or something, to put the 9 story hotel into context, the tower is 5 stories.

Perhaps that is the architects vision for the north Quays not to stand out and blend in, maintaining a focus on the south Quays.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150501#Comment_122150501

PS I am really looking forward to the development, and seeing cranes in the sky.

jelutong

Any renders available showing the Ferrybank facing side of the development?

Valhalla90

The last thing we need is carparks on both sides of the river. I feel these carparks will make them less likely to proceed with phase 2 & 3. Maybe Harcourt was hyped up too much for what they could deliver. The apartment blocks are of scale with is good but the hotel lacks any landmark presence over the city’s skyline.

914

Does anyone have the planning file number from the Munster express by any chance? Just looking for the plans on the council website

Bards

That was only pre planning notification as per planning laws ... They now have 14 days to make the actual planning application

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122149159#Comment_122149159

Stop labelling genuine concerns and criticisms as negativity. This is a far cry from what was originally expected of the site so people are understandably downbeat about the development now. I am the first to point out Waterford/Ireland's irrational negativity but I think it is warranted in this case.

The only hope is that it will drive on development in the old city but isn't that what supposedly drives us mad with Ireland? Build the houses first and worry about the other **** lately?

Deiseen

They'll probably get rid of the hotel / retail now and just add more apartments.

I was right once before....

Dexpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151773#Comment_122151773

Ehh? You haven't been right about one thing. You had an opinion about what you thought should be built. It's been shown to be completely impractical. What you want is not going to be built. How have you been right???

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122152284#Comment_122152284

I said that the delays in the planning application were because they'd gone back to the drawing board to increase the amount of housing and reduce everything else to a minimum.

That's exactly what we've gotten.

Its happening all over the world, everything is being demolished and sacrificed in favour of housing and it's happening on the North Quays now too.

Dexpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122151771#Comment_122151771

I've no problem with genuine concerns about design, car parking, height of hotel, lack of iconic buildings etc. The problem lies with some people who will never be happy whatever is built. Negativity is an in-built trait. What do you expect to see from the south quays? 'The Sydney opera house perhaps? The hanging gardens of Babylon? Herds of wilderbest sweeping majestically across the plain' Waterford is a small city of 60000. I agree that the project is not perfect but hopefully it will transform the city. It's time to look forward not back.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122152337#Comment_122152337

I'd expect something more than a rake of apartments and a hotel smaller than what Athlone has.

The majority of people in Waterford will see this for what it is, a bit of a let down.

The train station and bridge will be massive but this phase of the development leaves a lot to be desired. We can only hope that one of the next phases delivers the potential of the site.

Dexpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122150441#Comment_122150441

Yeah hopefully the 'temporary' car parks won't become permanent. That will come down to the commercial success of phase 1. It might give the council a bit of leverage in terms of buying out the private car park operators on the south quays. If there is plenty of parking on the NQ their sites will be less valuable.

In the medium term it should take a lot of traffic off the Quay and if the car parks are bought out a riverside promenade could be possible. At least a start is being made at the clock tower.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122152337#Comment_122152337

wilderbest all the way!