Waterford North Quays

Santan

Wow there will be a boardwalk, 30,000 meters of retail now down to less than 3k and probably now just a take away chipper and another pizza shack, with the obligatory centra or mace shop as the limited food and beverage, can Leo come back down and stand in for the photo op of this announcement

Dexpat

I was originally in favour of the huge retail element in the Falcon design so that it would be a shopping destination in itself, but things have moved on. Retail has changed a lot. The site will now be a mix of hotel, offices and apartments which is probably for the best. It will allow a proper retail core to develop in the old part of this city. God knows there is plenty of vacant space for that.

Even though there won't be much retail in the development, the influx of people working and living in the city centre, plus the tourism knock on from linking the Waterford and New Ross greenways will support a much better retail offering. That will be a big draw for the rest of the region. It might take a while but the north quays will be the catalyst that should deliver that.

A lot of time has been wasted getting to this point it's probably the best approach.

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392479#Comment_120392479

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392762#Comment_120392762

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392948#Comment_120392948

Why don't ye invest your money in shopping centre's then?

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393297#Comment_120393297

Agree, makes more sense to build on existing retail core.

decies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393645#Comment_120393645

Total irrelevant comment, none of the above promised a game changing shopping experience, that basically was the main attraction of the project in the first place . As usual we will now have to settle for a fraction of the initial plans and the most important part . Time to call this out for what it is just a fudge .

new92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120392479#Comment_120392479

We're struggling to hold onto retail. Struggling to attract retail. Why's that? Some of it is out of control, like Argos and Gamestop eventually.

We're not actually lacking in retail space and the attractive CSSC has two large and empty units. Why?

They can build more units but who's filling them?

If it's about the units being too small someone should tell the Cities of Paris, Florence and London, where small units are utilized by midlevel and upmarket shops. A large retailer could move into old Debenhams or even the old Wimpy area. Is Waterford seen as attractive to retailers? They aren't racing to open here.

914

Debenhams idle, front of City square idle, Argos soon to be idle.

A 30k retail development on the north Quays would probably spell disaster for the current city centre.

If you were a major retail chain your option would be North Quays at 30k, who would come and fill the city centre?

If we can fill Debenhams, front of City square and Argos and then look at developing Micheal st that would be far better for the core city centre.

I also wouldn't rule out further retail on the North Quays. Phase one will be built, phase two and three will be open to change, if we saw a massive shift back to retail don't be surprised to see the retail capacity increase.

Dexpat

As has been said. There's no way in his environment that a huge retail development in the NQ would be viable. It would also hollow out the existing city centre.

The original retail development was only possible because Falcon claimed to have access to and could call on a large number of international retail brands who were licensed to its parent company. If the same space was built now it would be speculative.

I think part of the problem with vacant space in city square etc was due to uncertainty. Prospective retailers didn't know where the retail core would end up. At least now its clear where retail will be concentrated. The problems in retail also aren't unique to Waterford. There's no quick fix.

decies

One of the unspoken problems of retail in the city over the last 10/20 years or more ( just speak to ex retailers ) is Waterford people just don’t support their own they go to Kilkenny, cork Dublin etc in their droves we had the fad of deadacated shopping trips to New York as well . Obviously internet shopping can’t be dismissed but the whole idea of the north quays and Michael street development was to drive retail forward for the city and attract big numbers to the city from neighbouring countries. We are now left with the status quo plus a few more token retail offerings on the north quays . That’s nothing to be celebrated the exodus will continue and the retail offerings decrease around the city . Unfortunately the ship has sailed on a glorious opportunity.

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393834#Comment_120393834

It's actually not. It is easy for the three of ye to come on here and complain there is not going to be a shopping centre in the North Quays when it's not your money. The reality is it is hard to see how a shopping centre in the North Quays would be financially viable. As others said, the problems in retail aren't unique to Waterford. For god sake Oxford St in London, a city of nearly 9 million people, has a pile of empty units.

new92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393297#Comment_120393297

A more frequent rail service is also. Waterford and Limerick is a busy corridor by road and the rail doesn't serve it well. I believe it's a significant for the north quay. Waterford and Dublin rail can be made more attractive by line speed upgrades.

decies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394651#Comment_120394651

Nonsense if it was never viable they shouldn’t have promised it. Don’t promise something you can’t deliver . Plenty of projects in Ireland were built during tough times . This whole project stank from high heaven from the start . Just empty promises with no evidence at all that the original project was ever a runner . Covid and economic downturn was just a convenient excuse . Just watch other projects ( not scaled down ) pop up over the country . It’s isn’t your money what kind of nonsense argument is that, don’t promise pipe dreams unless you can deliver .

Muttley79

Retail has changed massively in the last few years.the bigger name stores are just holding onto what they've got and chances are the smaller ones are struggling or looking to exit.

The future of retail is not in bricks and mortar stores anymore.to much overheads in it.the future will be warehousing stores that can be purchased from an app on people's phones.

All the big haulage companies are building massive warehouse buildings for stock.

Waterford can adapt more quickly than other cities to change with future retail

friendlyfun

"There will be limited food and beverage, a hotel, an office block, apartments," he explained.

"Most importantly there will be a fabulous landscape boardwalk."

So we are getting a tenth of the original retail space but we should be happy because we are getting a **** boardwalk. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. All this blowing smoke up eachothers arses in photo ops and we can be really most happy about the boardwalk...

Dexpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399196#Comment_120399196

Sums up a widespread attitude of people with completely glass half empty approach to everything in life. The designs for the commercial element are being worked on and haven't even been released yet, but apparently aren't good enough. Harcourt Developments have a good track record in delivering quality projects including the Titanic Quarter in Belfast. The previous development by Falcon in hindsight was completely unrealistic. The new development reflects currently realities after careful analysis.

The city will end up with over €500m of investment right in the city centre. It's important to get it right and not to end up with a white elephant. Just because something different was promised by a previous developer doesn't mean that it can't be changed.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399055#Comment_120399055

...i think the view only approach of retail is the way forward for it, it means much smaller retail units are required, logistics has improved greatly, delivery of goods can be extremely quick nowadays, it could be possible to have delivery within the same day in some cases...

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399196#Comment_120399196

A post from the 1960. Retail is changing dramatically. Shopping centres being sold all over this country. Friend recently back from Germany tells me that massive department stores all over that country are closing and retail is in complete flux and thats in a rich country of 80something million people.

decies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120399196#Comment_120399196

It’s a Waterford thing sure we should be delighted with anything we get . There’s a reason this city has had nothing but scaled down broken promises while the rest of the country leaves us way behind . We have the motor way though don’t forget . Comparing ourselves with other countries is more nonsense this was down as a game changer for the whole southern region like Kildare village attract the crowds from all the mayor surrounding towns . You only have to look at Walsh park so we settle on developing a whole inadequate site with limited capacity that can never have floodlights . Again sure it will be grand we are lucky to get it . The local Media are just as bad hyping stuff as it’s the greatest news ever . Meanwhile the exodus of shoppers from Waterford city will continue in their droves .

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400064#Comment_120400064

What they do in other countries is relevant because trends travel internationally. To suggest otherwise is unrealistic. There are empty shops in towns all over Ireland. I wish there weren't in Waterford, and the economic rationale behind our under performance in retail over the years is unclear to me, even though the city has twice or more the retail floor space than any place else in the region. Maybe everything is too spread out? It may be to do with disposable income as the SEEM report by people in WIT showed. Maybe the loss of Waterford Crystal hurt the city more than we know and the impact lasted longer? MAybe the 40% of workers who commute to work here dont ever return to spend their earnings here? How many KK regd cars to be seen on the IDA Industrial estate were bought in Waterford? Everything is connected. The council focus on NQ over the past seven years to the exclusion of a Michael Street plan, was a complete and utter disaster and the city centre has suffered as a resut. You cant havea wasteland in New Street without it affecting people's confidence. You cant have a wrecked Ardree Hotel for teh same reason. I dont know what the new developer of the NQ is going to do, but am happy its a recognised professional company with a distinguished track record. They know the market better than you or I. Dragging in the Walsh Park thing would be better addressed to a didived and poorly led county board that insisted for years in having two county grounds and refused funding when it was available. Ill leave it at that.

Retail is changing whether you or any of us like it. I still believe that the retail future of the city is best served in the historic city centre and none of us are settling for "anything we can get". Criticising issues is one thing, finding solutions is another

hardybuck

Good to hear that the developers are pressing ahead with a greater proportion of stuff there's a shortage of in Waterford (i.e. residential, hotel and conference facilities) and a smaller proportion of stuff that there's a surplus of (retail space).

It's really important that this development is a success and Waterford doesn't end up with more empty and derelict retail space.

friendlyfun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120400064#Comment_120400064

Bang on, all we get is scraps off the the table. Martin Cullen was probably the only one who actually delivered for the city. Funny seeing people changing their minds from "Its a pity we didn't get it" to "well we don't need it anyway". Its pure defeatism. I'm just being realistic with the mentality. Same with the 24/7 cardiac care, University etc. We are far to complacent politically.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401688#Comment_120401688

I completely agree about Martin Cullen, but if anyone is being defeatist it is you and Decies and others. The fight for 24/7 is not over and that struggle shows how hard it is to get top level facilities. A second cath lab has been built against the wishes of both Dublin and Cork hospitals and 24/7 could never happen without it. A university of sorts has been delivered. We will know what that can do in the coming months. The fight is not over for either development.

People like David Cullinane who boasts of supporting a regional university rather than a Waterford one have been little help. Perhaps you both should contact him to express your displeasure?Let us know what he says!

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401688#Comment_120401688

Martin Cullen was the only one who delivered as he was a minister, we haven't had one since.

This is where Waterford needs to become smart with voting and only voting for those who actually have a chance of becoming a minister.

Valhalla90

Paudie Coffey missing out was a big loss for Waterford. He got the SDZ ball rolling for the North Quays and was pushing for the boundary extension which the city needs. Cullinane supporting this regional university is basically party before Waterford. SF want to get seats in Carlow/KK so his party is coming before his city unfortunately.

914

Fully agree, Paudie Coffey was Waterford's best shot at becoming a full minister, Cullinane obviously is SF get in.

As I said Waterford needs to learn to vote smart, rather than us putting our best chance of a minister forward we vote him out and I am really no fan of FG.

If that is in any other county Coffey skates home.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120402160#Comment_120402160

Paudie Coffey was a very decent pol and able as well. He was done by his own party who decided they were going to run three candidates in this constituency. But thats another story.

Valhalla90

I can’t see FG getting a seat here next election. They certainly don’t deserve it!

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120402494#Comment_120402494

Hard to see them getting a seat, although if they only run one candidate then Cummins may get it, and unfortunately he is no where near the pecking order of a full minister.

Out of Waterford's candidates now Cullinane is probably the only one to obtain full minister if SF can form a government.

Although he seems hellbent on the "region" bullsh1t and votes for SF will be more important in Wexford, Carlow and Kilkenny.

decies

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120401688#Comment_120401688

1000% thank god somebody gets it , the irony when you call out the truth you get called out for being negative or defeatist !!

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120404115#Comment_120404115

Its defeatism when you leave the match before its over. Its defeatism and extremely negative when a 200m investment in infrastructure and a probable 300m or more investment on site is dismissed beacuse you dont like the mix .