[Article] Luas section closed after collision

Crossley

BrianD3 wrote:

As already mentioned, there is a major culture of red light breaking in Ireland, and especially in Dublin.

Agreed. It's not speed cameras per se that we need here it's red-light cameras. Cameras at each crossing would dramatically reduce offenders. There's a test installation in Kilmainham for the last couple of years but nothing else. On which point, why do we need to have test installations when these units are tried and tested in other countries for many years? :rolleyes:

enterprise

The max permitted speed of the trams while running on street is 50kph. However they rarely get above 30kph due to dozy car drivers and people crossing the road.

I hate to say it - what we need is a few people killed by a tram. Then the public will begin to respect the trams.

Frank Grimes

enterprise wrote:

The full Red Line timetable is badly needed - and soon, not the middle-end of Nov from what I have heard.

According to the notice boards at the stops, it is running at the full timetable now.

BrianD

Hagar wrote:

I think there are a couple of key points here.

The standard of driving is appalling.
Trams are allowed travel at speeds greater than that at which cars are allowed and it takes trams take a longer to stop than cars.
Cars and trams are sharing road space and junctions unlike the bus lane scernario where buses and cars are seperated.

Accidents had to follow - this was predictable. Where are the Gardaí ?

Agreed the standard of driving is appaling.
Can you back up your statement that trams are allowed to travel faster than cars? Trams can stop faster than a car. The speed is not relevant as the car is travelling across the path of a tram. The driver reflexes will be too slow. The speed will largely dictate the force of the collision not whether it will happen or not.
Your last point does not make sense. Trams and cars do not need segregation but as it happens in most areas the tram has its own lane. all The accidents appear to have occured at signal controlled cross roads . If it there wasn't a tram line the offending driver would have hit a car, truck or a bus.

sliabh

Watch out here come the politicians: http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/10/27/story173053.html

PD Senator calls for more warning signs on Luas lines
27/10/2004 - 10:39:57

Progressive Democrats Senator Tom Morrissey has called on the Rail Procurement Agency to increase the number of warning signs along the routes of the LUAS tram lines in Dublin.

The call follows a spate of accidents in which cars have collided with the trams at busy road junctions.

The driver of a car was hospitalised following the latest crash on Capel Street this morning, while four people were hospitalised yesterday after a crash at the junction between Benburb Street and Blackhall Place.

Mr Morrissey said more warning signs were needed in order to prevent a more serious accident.

"I don't think the signs are adequate across the various lines," he said. "Obviously, it's an accident waiting to happen. I think we have to get out there and do more to make motorists aware of the potential hazards."

"Obviously, it's an accident waiting to happen." - Hah! I think the horse has bolted on the senators cliche!

Hagar

If trams are allowed travel currently at 50kph that does in fact exceed the 30mph limit on cars. I don't know for a fact that trams can stop faster than a car I rashly assumed that their stopping distance was greater. Sorry.

Luas driver reflexes should be no slower than is necessary to do the job. At lot of accidents occur at signalled controlled junctions between other vehicles so I am not surprised to see the tradition continuing. Many posters have suggested that Gardaí be deployed for a period as they were when the bus lanes were introduced, that's the sort of Garda presence I mean.

BrianD

"I don't think the signs are adequate across the various lines," he said. "Obviously, it's an accident waiting to happen. I think we have to get out there and do more to make motorists aware of the potential hazards."

Safety awareness should always be encouraged but what's inadequate about a red light on a set of traffic lights??

Hagar, the only problem with a tram doing a dead stop is that the passengers tend to go flying so I would imagine that they try some sort of controlled stop. Perhaps any Connex employees reading the board might like to offer their opinion?

HashSlinging

In Amsterdam there are a couple of deaths per year from tourists not familiar with the tram system, I think it is just a matter of time before we see the first fatality on our tracks.

MrPudding

Maybe instead of extra warning signs we could have a new light on the traffic lights. We could have a blue one above the red. So we would have green for go, amber for prepare to stop (yes that is actually what it means, not accelerate,) red for 3 more cars please (so no change there,) and then we could have blue for stop. Do you think that would work?

If you run an red light and get hit by a tram fcuk you, I am glad I hope you are never capable of driving again. I just hope you have no-one in the car with you.

This will continue until someone gets killed. And if someone does run a red light and gets killed by a tram then the blame should rest firmly with them as long as the tram driver was obeying his signals and was driving as he shoul dhave been. I hope these light jumpers get charged, or at least their insurance companies, for the damage to the trams. I have absolutely no sympathy for them and to try to blame the tram drivers for hitting someone running a red light is pathetic. Only someone with a habit of running red lights could seriously suggest such a thing.

MrP

fran

What happens when a car is involved in a crash with the luas? If the passengers sue the luas for injuries, does the luas then sue the cars owners insurance??

MrPudding

fran wrote:

What happens when a car is involved in a crash with the luas? If the passengers sue the luas for injuries, does the luas then sue the cars owners insurance??

Please God.

MrP

BrianD

Well they are already testing red light cameras in Dublin and if you break a light you will be looking at 2 (or 5) points on your licence. Plus if you are in the wrong Connex will be looking for the material and personal injury damages from your insurance on top of your own claim. You might be virtually uninsurable after such a crash (if you are in the wrong of course).

mackerski

Hagar wrote:

If trams are allowed travel currently at 50kph that does in fact exceed the 30mph limit on cars.

It exceeds it by 2km/h. Until January, when cars will gain parity. I can't see it being significant, can you?

A Dub in Glasgo

The cause of these accidents is very simple, car drivers who do not obey red lights!!!! There is no way a LUAS should do an emergency break application in these circumstances. Many many more people will be injured. It is far better that the driver of the car is injured/killed than LUAS passengers. How anyone can blame LUAS for these collisions is beyond me. Connex should be going after the car drivers for the damage caused and the consequential loss of business.

There are some serious issues with the car driving standard of some people.

magpie

Putting a garda on each junction would be a worthwhile exercise

And how much extra is that going to cost the tax-payer in shift allowances/overtime for the Guards? Remember we (the taxpayers) have already forked out €775 million for these stupid trams.

Hagar

mackerski wrote:

It exceeds it by 2km/h. Until January, when cars will gain parity. I can't see it being significant, can you?

Nahh, to be absolutely honest I was nit-picking there. I was on the ropes, what's a guy to do?

sliabh

magpie wrote:

And how much extra is that going to cost the tax-payer in shift allowances/overtime for the Guards? Remember we (the taxpayers) have already forked out €775 million for these stupid trams.

Fair enough, lets just call the whole thing a failure and shut it down.

I am sure we can get a good price for the rolling stock (though we can't really claim they have never been crashed). Someone call the guys that ripped up the tracks in the 50's to see if they can do the same thing again.

Everyone that was squeezing themselves into the trams every rush hour will just have to realise they were being selfish in trying to use a more efficient and cost effective form of transport.

I mean what were the government of the day thinking? Taking space off motorists, who are (rightly) the best users or road space. We really should just have used the money to buy cars for people that were using public transport. For that price (€775m) we could have got over 30,000 cars.

That would have solved Dublin's traffic problems, and there wouldn't be these problems of trams damaging poor kids bikes.

magpie

For that price (€775m) we could have got over 30,000 cars.

Or more to the point 15km of metro. But I take it you're being sarcastic.

MrPudding

magpie wrote:

Or more to the point 15km of metro. But I take it you're being sarcastic.

Which would get people from Sandyford and Tallaght to town and back how?



MrP

jonny68

On the whole though the LUAS (barring accidents) is a good service and about ****in time this city had a Tram system,having travelled on both lines there does seem to be a noticeable difference,on the Tallaght line you`ll get your sumbags (or chavs as the Brits call them) and on the Sandyford line you have the D4 posh knob types (****) some difference....