[Article] Luas section closed after collision

Victor

The concept of "It's big, shiny, has lights and is moving in a defined path, how can you miss it?" comes to mind, but is self-fulfilling.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1024/luas.html

LUAS section closed after collision
24 October 2004 07:21

A section of the Luas Green Line servicing south Dublin was out of operation for around two hours last night after one of the trams was in collision with a car.

The crash happened on Upper Kilmacud Road shortly after 9.15pm.

No passenger was hurt and it is believed the motorist sustained minor injuries.

As a result, no trams operated between Kilmacud and Sandyford.

Normal service resumed before midnight.

BrianD

This sounds like a tip rather than a serious accident involving injury and It's typically Irish that nobody moves till the cops arrive. There should be some way of fast tracking these incidents so the travelling public aren't inconvenienced. Unless the tram driver went through a stop signal, it is pretty obvious who is at fault.

Hagar

Unless the Pope was driving the Luas the driver is fallible. I do wish people would stop treating the Luas drivers as Gods. If you think about it they are actually quite inexperienced in that the Luas have only been running for a couple of months. They are no better nor no worse than anyone else on the roads. They don't have any devine rights and the car driver was also a "member of the travelling public" even though he was doing it under his own steam.

"Get out of the way I'm coming through" is a bit much in my opinion.

therecklessone

Hagar wrote:

Unless the Pope was driving the Luas the driver is fallible. I do wish people would stop treating the Luas drivers as Gods. If you think about it they are actually quite inexperienced in that the Luas have only been running for a couple of months. They are no better nor no worse than anyone else on the roads. They don't have any devine rights and the car driver was also a "member of the travelling public" even though he was doing it under his own steam.

"Get out of the way I'm coming through" is a bit much in my opinion. :(

Putting the two bold quotes together I can't help but feel you've already made up your mind who's to blame. And it ain't the car driver...

Anything to back up that conclusion? Were you a witness? Are you an expert in tram vs. car collisions?

Hagar

therecklessone wrote:

You really have it in for public transport staff, don't you? What prompted you to jump to your conclusion that the tram driver was at fault? Were you a witness? Are you an expert in tram vs. car collisions? Or were you just pulling it out of your ar*e?

Where exactly did I say any of that?

therecklessone

Hagar wrote:

Where exactly did I say any of that?

Original post edited after cup of tea, hence the difference between what you've quoted and whats in my post. Sorry for the original hostility.

Anyway, read the edited post. It appears to me (based on your last sentence) that you're leaning towards blaming the Luas driver. Am I right?

Hagar

No I'm not blaming the Luas driver. What I'm saying is, it is wrong to assume that the Luas driver is always right. I accept in this instance he may well be right but it is wrong to pre-judge the car driver. There are many places where the Luas and regular traffic come into contact and people will make mistakes. Let's not demonize either the car driver or the Luas driver.
If we are not careful an attitude will creep in as it has done with some other professional drivers. Bus drivers, white van man, basically anybody driving any sort of vehicle that doesn't have to live with the repair bill after an accident.

Dub13

Hagar wrote:

If we are not careful an attitude will creep in as it has done with some other professional drivers. Bus drivers, white van man, basically anybody driving any sort of vehicle that doesn't have to live with the repair bill after an accident.

A Van Driver is not a professional driver nor is a Taxi driver.

A Dub in Glasgo

I would place a lot higher professionism in a train/tram driver over the vast majority of drivers of motor vehicles. I have seen loads of instances where motor vehicle drivers put themselves and those of train passengers in immediate danger when they do stupid things at level crossings.

My experience in the rail sector would point towards a motor vehicle driver being at fault in the majority of road/rail incidents.

maxheadroom

Hagar - assuming the luas driver did not cross a stop signal can you explain how it could possibly not be the fault of the car driver?

And, if the car driver was at fault, (s)he should have to pay for both the damage to the tram and loss of earnings for connex. Possibly also for some kind of compensation for the people who were held up over the incident.

pork99

How about a "you block the tram line and you loose your license" policy? I'd be in favour of that. (Also a "you block pedestrian crossings when there's a red light against you and you loose your license" policy would be good imho)

Victor

pork99 wrote:

How about a "you block the tram line and you loose your license" policy?

I suppose this would be an appropriate step down from "you block the railway and your car becomes splinters".

A Dub in Glasgo

And you may die!!

Crossley

Victor wrote:

one of the trams was in collision with a car

Interesting the way these incidents are reported. I'm open to correction but I don't recall a single incident to date where it was reported that the car was in collision with the tram. :rolleyes:

therecklessone

Hagar wrote:

No I'm not blaming the Luas driver. What I'm saying is, it is wrong to assume that the Luas driver is always right. I accept in this instance he may well be right but it is wrong to pre-judge the car driver.

Accepted. I jumped to conclusions myself, sorry 'bout that.

Hagar wrote:

If we are not careful an attitude will creep in as it has done with some other professional drivers. Bus drivers, white van man, basically anybody driving any sort of vehicle that doesn't have to live with the repair bill after an accident.

Previous experience suggests that driving standards of the general public are atrocious in this country. I've yet to see any bad Luas driving.

MrVestek

Correct me if i'm wrong but aren't the luas 'drivers' only there to stop the tram in an emergency? ie some eejit/car/hore/alien on the line? Im sure i heard somewhere that the trip itself is actually automated... i could be wrong tho.

FX Meister

The driver ignored a red light, slammed on the brakes and stopped directly in the path of the LUAS who did not have enough track distance to slow down and stop. Drivers in Ireland are terrible at lights, a lot of people don't stop for red lights and another huge number drive well past the line. The spa BMW driver learnt a valuable lesson

dazberry

This was on the news the other day on TV3. TBH the crash looked a fair bit more than a simple prang - there seemed to be a fair bit of damage to both the car and the Luas.

I can't remember the exact language of the report - i.e. car hit Luas or Luas hit car etc., but the report focused more on the junction than blaming either drivers. Supposedly the lighting sequence is very short - and possibly flawed - which they eluded to as being a possible cause.

D.

FX Meister

So it seems there wasn't enough of a delay to let the driver get away with driving through a red light.

BrianD

And the driver should have been aware of the presence of tram. Does he not look as he goes through a junction even he has a green?

Tarabuses

It seems that the Luas unit 4007 will be out of commission for some time.

Hagar

Another prang this morning.
Will we run out of idiots before we run out of trams?
They should have done it properly and built a proper underground Metro system.

dmeehan

Hagar wrote:

Another prang this morning.
Will we run out of idiots before we run out of trams?
system.

hopefully

FX Meister

Hagar wrote:

Another prang this morning.
Will we run out of idiots before we run out of trams?
They should have done it properly and built a proper underground Metro system.

By the time they would have finished the Metro cars would probably be obsolete

RuggieBear

FX Meister wrote:

By the time they would have finished the Metro cars would probably be obsolete

lol....

Is there any stats or info for other towns that introduced trams and incidents invloving them? I'd just be curious to know if it is us or just a normal consequnce of introducing a new form of transport on the roads....?

Victor

Anecdotally, yes, the accidents do happen or are at least reported (because they are new and diffferent and rail systems have reporting systems for all incidents rather than "ah sure it's only a scratch, how about we sort this out without the insurance").

magpie

They should have done it properly and built a proper underground Metro system.

Seamus Brennan apparently went to Spain to see how Madrid built a Metro system from scratch (which is incidentally cheap and efficient, from the the airport into town in no time) at a fraction of the estimated cost to build one in Ireland.

How did those fiendish Spaniards manage it? By wild, futuristic ideas like having a 24 hour rolling shift (which bone-idle Irish construction workers would blanch at, or demand overtime). Of course having construction workers who actually earn less than neuroscientists probably helps.

I too was amazed at the selection of a tram as a means of solving traffic problems. Given that it takes up half the lanes on the road it's quite an interesting way of making traffic flow faster. It's as if a road traffic consultant were time-travelled back from Victorian England. "What you need is trams, and lots of them". It's only surprising that they are not steam powered.

Apparently the Government plans to reintroduce gas lighting, workhouses and re-entry into Union with Great Britain as projects for future progress.

EDIT: Actually, now I come to think about it even the Victorians had an underground system.

Victor

Hagar wrote:

Another prang this morning. Will we run out of idiots before we run out of trams? They should have done it properly and built a proper underground Metro system.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1026/luas.html

Luas tram in collision at Blackhall Place
26 October 2004 09:22

It is reported that a Luas tram has collided with a car at Blackhall Place in Dublin.

It happened at about 6.45am on Benburb Street. Gardaí were at the scene.

Two people who were in the car were injured.

The area was closed off for a short time but has since reopened.

egan007

MORONS! - what's so diffucult about not entering a yellow box

Terminator

FX Meister wrote:

The driver ignored a red light, slammed on the brakes and stopped directly in the path of the LUAS who did not have enough track distance to slow down and stop. Drivers in Ireland are terrible at lights, a lot of people don't stop for red lights and another huge number drive well past the line. The spa BMW driver learnt a valuable lesson

That is so true - whenever I'm at the lights waiting to cross I always give it a second or two after its gone green before I cross over as half the time you get a silly ass flying through the red light like a bandit.

Stimpyone

here's another one....

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/10/26/story172850.html

Four injured as car collides with Luas tram
26/10/2004 - 08:20:46

Four people were taken to hospital today after a car crashed into a Luas tram in Dublin.

The accident happened before 7am at the signal junction between Blackhall Place and Benburb Street.

The car, which contained three passengers, collided with the Luas tram travelling on the Red Line from Connolly Station to Tallaght.

The passengers suffered minor injuries and were taken to hospital. The driver of the tram was also taken to hospital to be treated for shock.

Tram operator Connex said the Luas tram had been obeying the signal lights at the junction.

Spokeswoman Emma Raferty said: “In this instance, it seems like the car went into the path of the tram. Our incident team and the Gardai will be looking into this.”

The tram was taken back to the Luas depot at the Red Cow Roundabout with minor damage. Normal Luas services resumed at 8am.

Gardaí in the nearby Bridwell Station said there had been at least five accidents involving cars and Luas trams in the area.

Last month, two Luas trams collided at the St Stephen’s Green stop. The investigation into the accident is still continuing.


Driving standards in this country are appalling