Who is/will be studying what?

Nietzschean

i spose at least u did something constructive with yer time, twas just drink'n n sleeping i did all year

Thraktor

Boston wrote:

Speaking of TP drop out rate was 20% by christmas in first year, last year.

That pisses me right off. I come up just short on points to get into the course this year and it turns out that 20% of the people who are taking up the places don't have a clue what they're getting into and drop out by Christmas, wasting places that could have been given to me and others of my ilk. Actually, speaking of which, does anyone here know if such places get offered up again on the CAO, perhaps on the vacant places list? Or will I have to attempt to change course through Trinity itself? In fact, anyone know how one might go about doing that?

If I don't manage to weasel my way into TP, I'll be doing Physics and Chemistry of Advanced Materials, which is just Trinity's fancy way of saying Material Science. I'll be fine with that, even though I'd considerably prefer TP with it's (roughly) 50:50 Physics/Maths components.

Nietzschean

you can only change courses if u have the points to do it, and the points won't drop because of them leaving, nor will they be offered as vacant places, sorry.

And i'm afraid your in no position to comment on that, you can only really see what a course is like by doing it, alot of my m8's dropped out by xmas in first year. Course is quite a shock/challange from 2nd level, though our main stumbling block was thankfully tought better this year. -- And to take an example first one to drop out was a girl who got 8A1's, which was the most that yr.In general you don't know really if you'd be capeable or even like TP/Maths, vast majority of people have no experence with the maths we do.

[EDIT]
For a general reference up to i think the 2nd week of hillary term its quite easy to change course, just talk to your tutor about it. He/She should sort it all out for you.
[/EDIT]

strawberry

I think that if you do well enough in the first year of something general like science you can change course in the second year when they start to specialise. If you can't find your tutor (sometimes they are impossible to locate), I'd go talk to someone in the students union. Like Daithi Mc Sithigh, you can't go wrong with an educ officer whose campaign was fueled by purple balloons

Nietzschean

ummm i don't follow, change to what? and science don't specialise till 3rd yr....

uary

Soon be starting scince and moving from limerick to dublin,can just hear the stab city jokes already :rolleyes:

Nietzschean

probally not alot, these dublin lot don't realise anything exists outside the pale
(also went to skool in limerick, as did me lil bro who should be in yer class i'd be guess'n)

Crash

....theres a limerick now?




why was i not informed??

MacXP_Irl

Thraktor wrote:

That pisses me right off. I come up just short on points to get into the course this year and it turns out that 20% of the people who are taking up the places don't have a clue what they're getting into and drop out by Christmas, wasting places that could have been given to me and others of my ilk.

When I did TP it was 540 points to get in to, the class started off at 21 or so, by the end it was down to 12 now thats some attrition rate.

uary wrote:

Soon be starting scince and moving from limerick to dublin,can just hear the stab city jokes already

surprisingly I didn't get a lot of that up there, besides you can always go on about how they live in the pale an extension of britain and the like...they don't seem to like that for some reason. heehee.

Nietzschean

ah u only lost 9? we lost 9 by feb
though we started @ 35 so had more to lose... i think there's about ~16 - 18 left in it..i'd check but its early

Chick

snorlax wrote:

Nursing is a great course, great fun! at least your not stuck in st james hospital like all the nurses last year off campus, there's no facilities out here where we are!
coffee's crap and a rip off at 2.60euro!

I will be in Stewarts Hospital in Palmerstown cos thats the hospital linked to my course. It'll be some fun tryin to figure out how to get out there everyday...!

Do I have to do theory elsewhere?

ApeXaviour

Thraktor wrote:

If I don't manage to weasel my way into TP, I'll be doing Physics and Chemistry of Advanced Materials, which is just Trinity's fancy way of saying Material Science. I'll be fine with that, even though I'd considerably prefer TP with it's (roughly) 50:50 Physics/Maths components.

Erm.. I don't know where you heard that cos it's anything but 50:50.
In natural sci if you study physics you do 50:50 maths/physics. TP's do A HELL of a lot more maths.
I don't think you can blame people for not knowing what they're getting into when you don't really either.
My choice subjects in natural sci were Maths, Phys and Chem (MCP). Each contributed to about equal amounts of time and work.. [incidently if you did advanced materials, you'd be studying entirely with the MCP students (most of my mates are AM) and in third year you can jump into a physics or chem degree (and vice versa) with little difficulty]

Now if you consider that the TP's have as many hours as we do, do the same physics course as us (in the same lectures, same exam papers) but don't do chemistry/geology. Then that would mean that their maths accounts for 2/3rds of their course.

Actually look here: http://www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/official/TPhysics/TPRegulations.html

Total JF TP physics lectures: 86. + 3hrs lab/wk =~ 140hrs
Total JF TP maths lectures: 321.

I think you can see the difference.. :cool:

celingfan

whats goin on anyone sayin anything against PCAM will get a stern talking to as for those tp genius's ,why can't we all be like u?!

Nietzschean

Actually thats not quite correct, it varies between the years how much maths/physics TP's do, overall their degree is 50% maths, 50% physics.

And btw, TP's have different physics papers, there is topics tp's do that you don't. Special Relativity being the example from first year.

And the maths natural sci do is nothing like the maths TP's/maths do so you can't quite correlate....

ApeXaviour

Triceradon wrote:

And btw, TP's have different physics papers, there is topics tp's do that you don't. Special Relativity being the example from first year.

Nay lad, the papers are the same. The difference amounts to ONE question on ONE paper in both JF and SF. Hardly worth mentioning.. They're not even required to be answered. [For those non physics students let me elaborate: Paper 1 SF, there are 10 questions. You must answer 5. But of the 10 questions ONE cannot be answered by TP and ONE cannot be answered by NS.]

Triceradon wrote:

And the maths natural sci do is nothing like the maths TP's/maths do so you can't quite correlate....

I agree.. Our maths is geared more specificly to it's relevance in science. But it's still maths, it takes up as much of our study as physics so what's your problem with correlation?

Your comments make me feel as if I'm pulling you off some imaginary high-horse?

Nietzschean

apexaviour wrote:

Nay lad, the papers are the same. The difference amounts to ONE question on ONE paper in both JF and SF. Hardly worth mentioning.. They're not even required to be answered. [For those non physics students let me elaborate: Paper 1 SF, there are 10 questions. You must answer 5. But of the 10 questions ONE cannot be answered by TP and ONE cannot be answered by NS.]

Different questions not mean a different paper no?:rolleyes:
And if i recall Tp's can't avoid Special rel in first year( i did sit the papers twice... )

I agree.. Our maths is geared more specificly to it's relevance in science. But it's still maths, it takes up as much of our study as physics so what's your problem with correlation?

Your previous point was that your course is more like 50:50 maths physics and TP is not, in my time in TP it was all 50:50, don't matter the hours, important stuff is the study and the exams.

and really why i was saying u can't correlate em i dunno, its been a long day

Your comments make me feel as if I'm pulling you off some imaginary high-horse?

i do believe u are the one who sounds like he's on his high horse, talk'n down to the poor fella who hasn't even started here yet. TP is offically 50:50 so he was correct.

ApeXaviour

Triceradon wrote:

Different questions not mean a different paper no?:rolleyes:

Ah here... No it doesnt. Bring that keen logic back to reality will ya! That's the problem with you abstract maths people .
The physical papers given are entirely the same (download them and you'll see). The exams are taken at the same time, the students sit inter-mixed and the SAME papers are given to everyone. ON the papers (among others) are 2 questions. One marked with a dagger, the other with an asterix these denote what cannot be answered by who. On the whole the courses are 95% the same. An accurate percentage.

Triceradon wrote:

And if i recall Tp's can't avoid Special rel in first year( i did sit the papers twice... )

Fair enough I can't be certain but I don't think this is the case anymore. I've friends in TP who've told me otherwise.

Triceradon wrote:

Your previous point was that your course is more like 50:50 maths physics and TP is not, in my time in TP it was all 50:50, don't matter the hours, important stuff is the study and the exams.

And what took more study? That was my point.

Triceradon wrote:

i do believe u are the one who sounds like he's on his high horse, talk'n down to the poor fella who hasn't even started here yet. TP is offically 50:50 so he was correct.

That was na my intention. He was angry at people coming into the course who "don't have a clue what they're getting into" when IMO neither did he. A wee bit hypocritical IMO.
I see where you're coming from with regards it being "officially" a 50:50 TSM, in reality as far as work and material is concerned (at least in the 1st 2years) it is predominantly maths.

If this is the pinnacle of our argument I dinna think we can really get anywhere unless we find out what Thraktor originally meant by "TP with it's (roughly) 50:50 Physics/Maths components". It really boils down to our interpretation of this. Was he referring to it work wise? Or what will be written on his degree? Tbh looking at it again it could be either.. Asking him won't do any good as he's obviously not going side with the person calling him a hypocrit..

Unless you want to temporarily delete the last few posts and then we PM him?

ApeXaviour

I've noticed I have a tendency to sound (as in tone) condascending when I type. Please don't take the above like that..

-D

Nietzschean

apexaviour wrote:

And what took more study? That was my point.

Maths did, but that would be because i think every single TP in my class got an A1 in physics in the leaving and 1st year physics is about 90% a re-hash of that course.In maths the started with the general assumption we all got A1's. So obviously these 2 starts of a course are going to skew the workload, as for actual time spent if u didn't do well in physics i'd recon the physics would take longer, those stupid assignments and lab reports take ages. First year Tp's in my year only got assignments from one subject, took ~2/3hrs a week i spose...most people spent more time on their lab reports....



And no you didn't come off that way....i'm afraid i'm just grouchy, 5hrs sleep and constant algebra study for the past 3/4 weeks will do that to ye...
:eek:



and well the years that count are 3rd/4th and they are 60:40 and 40:60 if i recall.

And whats physics and whats maths is a bit of a grey area, you did mechanices in physics, tho that is a maths course for TP's... so really u could class what was the hardest end of year 1st yr exam for me class a physics subject really if u wanted to

I'd check about the special rel, but its effort, i'll ask one of the TP's later on.....(regardless i don't see why any TP in their right mind would want to avoid it, its the only interesting subject taught by the physics dept in 1st yr, abit its alot better when done later by the maths dept(cause u'd go indepth with the maths behind it more...) )

Thraktor

apexaviour wrote:

If this is the pinnacle of our argument I dinna think we can really get anywhere unless we find out what Thraktor originally meant by "TP with it's (roughly) 50:50 Physics/Maths components". It really boils down to our interpretation of this. Was he referring to it work wise? Or what will be written on his degree? Tbh looking at it again it could be either.. Asking him won't do any good as he's obviously not going side with the person calling him a hypocrit..

I was referring to the fact that the degree itself, which is based on the Junior and Senior Sophister exams, is awarded with pretty much equal emphasis on the Physics and Maths componenets, although I am well aware that the first two years place an emphasis on the Maths component. The reason I mentioned this aspect, though, and I should have made it more clear, is that the Advanced Materials course takes Maths with the Science students (for the first two years, at least), which requires a pass on higher level, and is focussed towards the persuit of mathematics for scientific application, while the Theoretical Physics course takes the more challenging mathematics that the Maths students take, with the opportunity to study pure Maths as well as the Theoretical Physics side of things, which requires a B in higher level.

With regard to "knowing what I'm getting into", while I obviously can't have the sort of knowledge of people who are actually in the course, I have done my best to learn as much as I can about the course, reading all the available literature, speaking to my Maths and Physics teachers and well as people who have done the course and one or two lecturers and professors. I also attended the Maths Dept. open day last November and was very happy with the lecturers and the lectures given. The most common reason for drop-outs near the start of the course seem to be the heavy Maths components of the Freshman years, and I've looked at what's on the Junior Freshman Maths course which, according to my conversations with the above, should be quite easily within my abilities. I certainly don't think it would be an easy course that I could glide through, but it strikes me that if someone leaves any course within the first couple of weeks (which is common in TP), then they really should have put more effort into finding out what they're getting into beforehand, which I can honestly say I've done to the best of my abilities.

Pompey Magnus

pekelly wrote:

well if you have ever done anything GIS related i've probably tortured you with one of my courses or Steve's....

Well I was thinking of doing GIS this year so I might have that to look forward to !

ApeXaviour

Thraktor wrote:

I was referring to the fact that the degree itself, which is based on the Junior and Senior Sophister exams, is awarded with pretty much equal emphasis on the Physics and Maths componenets, although I am well aware that the first two years place an emphasis on the Maths component.

Yeah, NOW ya say that..

Thraktor wrote:

With regard to "knowing what I'm getting into", while I obviously can't have the sort of knowledge of people who are actually in the course, I have done my best to learn as much as I can about the course, reading all the available literature, speaking to my Maths and Physics teachers and well as people who have done the course and one or two lecturers and professors. I also attended the Maths Dept. open day last November and was very happy with the lecturers and the lectures given. The most common reason for drop-outs near the start of the course seem to be the heavy Maths components of the Freshman years, and I've looked at what's on the Junior Freshman Maths course which, according to my conversations with the above, should be quite easily within my abilities.

This was what I was concerned about. Your second choice being PCAM. Usually people would choose subjects as similar as possible to their first choice (eg in your case Maths). So it gave me an impression that you weren't so clear of what was involved. That and it being 50:50. I was mislead mostly by the latter..

Thraktor wrote:

I certainly don't think it would be an easy course that I could glide through, but it strikes me that if someone leaves any course within the first couple of weeks (which is common in TP), then they really should have put more effort into finding out what they're getting into beforehand, which I can honestly say I've done to the best of my abilities.

Well yeah it's all you can do I suppose.

Nietzschean

well just going to open days/open day lectures wouldn't tell ye if you were able for it.

but there is nothing else u can do really.....but you say that these people haven't researched their course fully, its possible they have, but you never know what its like till u do it. Most of them that left were people from around dub who had all been to the open days n so on, so knew more than country folk like me what they were getting into....
(though i stay a year till the labs just got too bording, gl to ye in PCAM....)

I dunno maybe i'm ranting, but we get put down for any assumptions we make in anything ere, so kinda rub's off...

ApeXaviour

Triceradon..
What do you do now? Still TP? What yr?

Nietzschean

na i moved to maths after first year, didn't wanna do more/longer labs......
so i'm sitting repeats so i can get into 3rd yr math...kinda didn't goto college much/at all in 2nd yr...

ApeXaviour

Triceradon wrote:

kinda didn't goto college much/at all in 2nd yr...

That just sums me up too. I can also count the amount of chemistry lectures I went to on 1 foot (watch me).. Well payin for it now (I hate you moleculor orbital theory of hetero-nuclear diatomic molecules grr :mad: ). AND as a kick in the teeth I've got a free gaf this week but I CANT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT!!!
So you're in my year then. hah I thought the labs in 2nd yr would be longer too. Turns out they're not, you still only do 3 hours a week, but you have 2 labs to do each experiment. Or is that not what you meant?

Yeah phys labs (esp the writeups) are on the best of days an acquired taste. 1st yr ones were quite boring.. 2nd yr though the got a bit more interesting but a lot more difficult..

Nietzschean

well yeah, though like in 1st year i kinda showed up about an hour or 2 late hungover and only stayed 10mins...got someone elses results to keep the superviors happy, 2 of em were dead on and i'd just chat to em while i was there, unfortunatly the other one gave me all **** marks cause i dunno..me reports were crap

well in moving to maths i got to avoid 2nd yr mechanics and had 2 comp's subjects(easy pass/marks) and stats(learning how to gamble professionally.. ) ... so twas a handy move to encorage my lazyness, we'd no assignments due in all year so i kinda dropped over to col for lunch once a week, didn't goto any lectures tho


Ahhh but now (assuming i get into 3rd yr) its half me degree so i've to work going to be one hell of a shock to the system.. lol

Thraktor

apexaviour wrote:

This was what I was concerned about. Your second choice being PCAM. Usually people would choose subjects as similar as possible to their first choice (eg in your case Maths). So it gave me an impression that you weren't so clear of what was involved. That and it being 50:50. I was mislead mostly by the latter..

I went with PCAM because I wanted to go for a Physics masters afterwards, which, afaik, I can't get into (or it would be more difficult getting into) after a pure Maths degree. Science was also on my list, but I preferred the look of the final two years of PCAM than the Physics option of Science, plus, if I'm not mistaken, the first two years of each course are identical (if taking Physics and Chemistry) which means that it shouldn't be too difficult switching over to pure Physics in Junior Sophister year, if I happen to develop a deep resentment of all things chemical by that stage.

I put Theoretical Physics on top of my CAO because it's a combination of the two subjects which I would most enjoy spending the next four years learning about, and I could turn it into a degree with job prospects after completing a masters in experimental physics. My placement of PCAM second was reality kicking in. I'm going to need a job after coming out of college, and one in material science is pretty much as good as I can hope for. I would have liked to study pure maths, but my intrests would lie merely on the academic side of things, and I can't see myself enjoying a mathematically related job other than one in academia.

Nietzschean

hrmm planning your masters before u start college? lol thats a bit of 'too well thought out' planning give ye 4yrs of drink'n on that plan n see what it looks like

ApeXaviour

Thraktor wrote:

which means that it shouldn't be too difficult switching over to pure Physics in Junior Sophister year, if I happen to develop a deep resentment of all things chemical by that stage.

Haha the story of my life (well the last year). My best mark was in chemistry JF. What you describe above happened in SF and well I'm resitting it now. I've got 35% to catch up on so put that maths mind to work and have a wild guess what I got..

Thraktor wrote:

I put Theoretical Physics on top of my CAO because it's a combination of the two subjects which I would most enjoy spending the next four years learning about, and I could turn it into a degree with job prospects after completing a masters in experimental physics. My placement of PCAM second was reality kicking in. I'm going to need a job after coming out of college, and one in material science is pretty much as good as I can hope for. I would have liked to study pure maths, but my intrests would lie merely on the academic side of things, and I can't see myself enjoying a mathematically related job other than one in academia.

Sounds like you've got yourself well researched. I take back what I said. If you ever have another question or are unsure tho, dinna hesitate to ask.