MayDay DISGRACE!!!

pork99

Originally posted by Victor
Iraqis are dropping accurate mortar fire at 6 miles.

Probably using something like these

http://www.desert-storm.com/VetPages/SMcDonald/2B11.html

http://www.afghanwar.spb.ru:8101/34/mfoto16.htm

Range of 7000m but not something easily concealed about the person

And they have bigger brothers. I think the Soviets manufactured mortars up to 240mm in calibre (and maybe even bigger) so big f-ing mortar indeed.

Also you need to know what you are doing. Aiming and firing weapons like these must be done by trained crews. How many people on the boards have ever laid a mortar?

Victor

Actually, they are using man portable mortars, will dig up a quote.

Originally posted by bonkey
So you'd prefer, say, a half-square-mile or so* of "our" city - surrounding the building in qustion - shut down instead? Or do you think that buildings in the city-centre are so inherently more secure than buildings in Phoenix Park that the state could have not bothered with the largest security operaiton in its history

Hey they are doing that as well. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1586873#post1586873

pork99

Originally posted by Victor
Actually, they are using man portable mortars, will dig up a quote.

Those would be either 60mm mortars, which can be carried by one person, or 82mm mortars which break down into 3 pieces, a barrel, a baseplate and a bipod so can be carried by 3 guys plus one to carry the ammunition. But the range as far as I can find out is 3-4 miles max for an 82mm. A 60mm would be shorter range again.

I suppose you could blast Farmleigh from maybe Inchicore with an 82mm and if you could get at least 2 other guys who knew how to serve a mortar but I think you you stand out like a sore thumb

Blackjack

Originally posted by Victor
So why not lock down most of Blanchardstown / Castleknock aswell seeing as they are closer than much of the Phoenix Park?

Your point being?.
In my opinion, if that is the required measure, then by all means. Without question. It would be a worse situation (again, this is MY OPINION) if we were to ignore the situation and allow it (the potentially dangerous scenario, where foreign leaders are injured or Killed) to happen, and assume that because we are an (arguably) neutral country, that people would not take advantage?.

If a minor inconvenience to your Daily existance results in the saving of someone's life, would you begrudge it?.

Again, my 0.02 (tax paid) for the difference it makes to those who give a sh!t.

Victor

Originally posted by Blackjack
Your point being?.

They are shutting down all lot of stuff they don't need to while leaving other, obvious, avenues of attack open.

Redleslie

Buying onions is suspicious behaviour now apparently.

dahamsta

Originally posted by Redleslie
Buying onions is suspicious behaviour now apparently.

I'm not a fan of IndyMedia, but I have found myself thinking that an awful lot of the media coverage I've seen has been based on reports of "intelligence" with little or no detail of what that intelligence is and where it came from. Why aren't people asking for more detail about this intelligence?

And yes, I'm afraid the phrase "agent provocateur" did enter my head in the last couple of days, mostly because the people I've seen talking about it seem to be almost looking forward to it. They're stirring shít, pure and simple.

adam

monument

Originally posted by dahamsta
I'm not a fan of IndyMedia, but I have found myself thinking that an awful lot of the media coverage I've seen has been based on reports of "intelligence" with little or no detail of what that intelligence is and where it came from. Why aren't people asking for more detail about this intelligence?

And yes, I'm afraid the phrase "agent provocateur" did enter my head in the last couple of days, mostly because the people I've seen talking about it seem to be almost looking forward to it. They're stirring shít, pure and simple.

adam

Reading the Irish Times toady I was giving the impression that they were only preparing in case of the worst, and not that they were expecting the worst.

Slightly different from the Irish Examiner’s “Garda sources” which “are claiming rioters will be… carrying hammers, crowbars and screwdrivers which could be used as weapons”

Sparks

In addition, it is believed they possess crude electronic devices capable of triggering incendiary bombs and are planning to throw bleach into the faces of gardaí, say the sources.

Yeah, I've got one of those. It's called a cigarette lighter....

bobbyjoe

Irish Examiner’s “Garda sources” which “are claiming rioters will be… carrying hammers, crowbars and screwdrivers which could be used as weapons

WSD's
Weapons of small destruction.

Tuars

Any sign of a riot yet? Could it be that someone was yanking our chain (metaphorically speaking)?

Sparks

Can I be the first to say it please?
Thanks.


"I told you so"

parasite

heh hehehe, just saw some random clueless hippy blown off his feet by a water cannon on sky news there

and others trying and failing to burn an EU flag *sigh*

sceptre

Of course the Ashtown gate is four miles from Farmleigh according to Ray Kennedy on Sky so it's not as though they're knocking on the door and asking for some capitalist pig dog tea.

mike65

Originally posted by Tuars
Any sign of a riot yet? Could it be that someone was yanking our chain (metaphorically speaking)?

Could I be the only one whos quiety pleased this has happened? After all the waiting, the tension and now the release! Ahhhhhhh.....:D

Mike.

Cork

But the water canons were clearly warranted,

What control have the organisers of these demos?

The buck clearly has to stop with them.

Marchs may start our all "Hippie & Peace and Love" but may end up with arrests.

The riot training will come in handy policing future protests and the government should invest in a couple of water cannons.

Organisers of protesters should bear some of the costs of security. Why should the tax payer pick up the bill?

Victor

Originally posted by mike65
Could I be the only one whos quiety pleased this has happened? After all the waiting, the tension and now the release! Ahhhhhhh.....:D

Imagine the violence that there is going to be outside Copper Face Jacks on the next Garda pay day, with all that overtime!

pork99

Seems the water cannons were a wise decision. Well done the authorities!

mike65

This from
http://www.indymedia.ie/index.php

8.35 WOMBLES Have Appeared at Front Line

This from
http://www.wombles.org.uk/actions/mayday2004text.php

We stand with the exploited of no country, all who have fought and continue to fight by any means against the criminality of power.

Mike.

Sparks

Pork, are you watching a different sky news?
There are less people (there were less people, that video is obviously hours old) than there were on O'Connell Street after the last rugby match in Dublin, and despite there being the largest deployment of gardai in the state's history, only 13 arrests have been made. That's less than there were on O'Connell Street on your typical friday night. This has been a disgraceful paniced waste of taxpayers money. Four million euro down the drain and every garda in the country in Dublin instead of where they're needed on a bank holiday weekend (ie. watching traffic around the country as people head out of the city for the weekend). There should be an accounting for this for McDowell at least as serious as for Cullen over the eVoting scandal.

monument

Sparks - It's by no way over.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1590802#post1590802

sceptre

Originally posted by Cork
What control have the organisers of these demos?

The buck clearly has to stop with them.

Actually, I've dealt with the duty of care issue in a post above (probably back a few pages), as have others. They don't, it doesn't.

(all joking aside I'm doing some torts revision (I haven't done torts since 1995) for my better half who has an exam on duty of care on Wednesday (if she wasn't cute I wouldn't bother) so I've a fat book under the desk at the moment and I'm not afraid to use it. Find another soapbox.

Originally posted by Sparks
there were less people, that video is obviously hours old

... and being repeated quite a bit. That bloke in the black hoodie has taken away the girl with the cut finger at least three times, that protestor has been calming down his mates at least four times, that arty shot with the cans and the bottle-kicking Garda is getting quite an airing and that bloke in the Celtic top is still braving the water cannon quite a while after his identical twin in an identical top was arrested. Plus it's rather bright on the footage considering it's dark outside now in Limerick for the past half hour so presumably also in Dublin by now.

Zombrex

Ok I am a liberal (ie leftest hippy bleeding heart) and all that jazz and I am all for the peacefull marches (well i have problems with this march, but not because it is taking place) but I would love to see how the marchers are going to spin this one because it seems pretty clear (both RTE and Sky on the ground with little time to spin or distort) that the gardi only brought forward the riot police after the started being pelted with missiles and that they did not rush the ground but slowly moved forward to push the ground back. I have seen on TV a number of men rushing into the gardi line trying to kick and hit them.

For all the fuss the marchers (and I know there a different groups and it is only a percentage that are causing trouble) make about the news only reporting the violence, come on! It is news! if you don't want the bad side reported they control your crowds better.

Meh

Originally posted by Sparks
Pork, are you watching a different sky news?
There are less people (there were less people, that video is obviously hours old) than there were on O'Connell Street after the last rugby match in Dublin, and despite there being the largest deployment of gardai in the state's history, only 13 arrests have been made. That's less than there were on O'Connell Street on your typical friday night. This has been a disgraceful paniced waste of taxpayers money.

Have you considered how much worse it could have been if those extra police and water cannon hadn't been there?

Originally posted by Cork:
Organisers of protesters should bear some of the costs of security. Why should the tax payer pick up the bill?

I wouldn't agree with that at all. Would make it far too easy for the authorities to prevent protests they didn't like, by setting an absurdly high "security" fee. €4 million (about €2 per taxpayer) is a very small price to pay for freedom of speech.

Cork

It is pity that on a day 10 new countries joined that EU that it had to be marked by this.

It was a good thing that the security forces of this state were prepared.

gandalf

Well I cannot understand people going on about the security costs for this weekend. We have 25 heads of state in the country and we should do everything in our power to protect them from whatever threats are out be they "Wombles" or Bin Ladens etc.

The only security costs I object to this year is the one in June where we are being used by George "Mission Accomplised" Jr and his bid to use Ireland to help his re-election in November, now that is a serious waste of money imho.

BTW noticed that Sky News were looping there footage quite a bit. I did get an evil happy feeling when the sky news camera team got hit but the water cannon burst. Now all we need is a good old fashioned baton charge to complete their footage

Gandalf.

Moriarty

Originally posted by Sparks
Can I be the first to say it please?
Thanks.


"I told you so"

*giggle*

If only you'd waited a few hours eh

Victor

Originally posted by sceptre
Plus it's rather bright on the footage considering it's dark outside now in Limerick for the past half hour so presumably also in Dublin by now.

Dublin is further North ... long summer nights and all that

Sparks

Originally posted by Meh
Have you considered how much worse it could have been if those extra police and water cannon hadn't been there?

<lisa simpson>
See this rock? It deters Tigers.

<homer>
How does it work?

<lisa>
Well, do you see any Tigers around here?

:rolleyes:

Meh, the Gardai deal with far more violence in an average friday night in just O'Connell Street than we're seeing here. 13 arrests, one Garda taken to hospital (which is a matter of policy rather than proof that someone was critically injured), and several broken heads from Garda batons according to the organisers. Compare that to the usual friday night urban warfare we see in Dublin and ask yourself - if they spent that four million euro on ordinary, unsexy, not-in-the-papers-all-the-time policing, how much better off would we be?
One rank-and-file garda's pay is what, 25-35k per year? That's over a hundred gardai's annual pay right there. Only 10% of what we were promised two years ago in the election by McDowell, but still....


BTW, anyone seen a riot squad member with ID numbers yet?

mike65

In Ireland, given our latitude Limerick wins over Dublin in the evening light contest!

Mike.

edit. I of course meant longitude. Limerick and Dublin are pretty much on the same latitude.