MayDay DISGRACE!!!

bonkey

Originally posted by monument
20 or so trouble makers and how may guards?

At which point?

- Before teh riot police were called in to deal with the troublemakers?

or

- After the riot police were called in, but before it was apparent in hindsight that the situation wasn't going to escalate

No, I’d prefer a measured response to 20 or so trouble makers in a crowd of around 120. And police in full riot gear was not such.

Well what would have been?

Unarmoured police? (bear in mind why the riot police were called in)

Less riot police? (bear in mind comments above about escalation)

Oh - hang on...you've offered a reasonable way to do so. Hmm. Thats from a post where someone suggested that the 100 people not causing trouble should have all sat down, leaving the troublemakers standing on their own, isn't it?

I notice you snipped out those key sentences at the start...that wouldn't be because that post was actually a suggestion as to what the protestors should have done in order to prevent the riot police being needed....and not a suggestion as to what the police should have done as you protray it here. No?

So did this happen, or are you just suggesting that the police should have walked into a standing crowd of 120-ish people who's individual intent was not clear, nor were they hampered in any way from being in a prone position (i.e. sitting).

jc

Redleslie

Originally posted by Morphéus
You should have moved your protest back, although i think the best protest would have been for the ENTIRE peaceful protesting group (500 or so???) to reach the destination and SIT DOWN.

I said already there were calls to do that and I thought it was a good idea at the time but people who knew better said that everyone should stay on their feet. A small group sat down and got walloped immediately, presumably because a big bunch of people sitting down would end up being harder to push back.

Now you have 20 or so muppets, dressed in black, faces covered, standing where they can easily be seen to throw stuff, the media sees you peacefully protesting, and sees these wa*nkers that fcuked up your protest carrying on like that. The protests is peaceful you say, therefore shouldnt the Garda should be able to send out 20 or so officers safely into the protest and reprimand these people and then retreate back to the standoff point and allow you to have your sitdown protest safely and in the eyes of the media, effectively?

Oh ffs, that's wrong. The "muppets" were in the front line, they didn't throw anything and didn't have any weapons. The gardai knew they weren't in any danger from the stuff that was being lobbed by idiots further back, they knew we weren't going to be able to push our way through 4 lines of riot cops and they're not thick enough to wade into a crowd to pick up someone who threw an empty beer can or plastic bottle and risk escalating the situation unnecessarily. Like pretty much everyone I talked to who was there, I thought they did a good job overall (better than police at other protests, Genoa for example (video clip here) and they probably secretly had a good hard laugh at how easy it was to fool the plain people of Ireland (some of whom enjoy sneering at the gullibility of Americans) into believing the city was going to be razed to the ground by rabid anarchist monsters/filthy dopey hippies (take your pick).

We had a scuffle not a riot, Nepal has had proper riots and Berlin had its usual mayday shenanigans (videos here), moderate according to police.

bonkey

Originally posted by Redleslie
Oh ffs, that's wrong.

Well, blame the media report that was referenced a page or so ago, rather than those who weren't there from using the only source of information available to them up to this point.

The gardai knew they weren't in any danger from the stuff that was being lobbed by idiots further back,

You've verified this with them, yes? You've actually asked them that they knew, and they responded in the affirmative?

Or is this just supposition presented as fact?

Like pretty much everyone I talked to who was there, I thought they did a good job overall (better than police at other protests, Genoa for example (video clip here)

Glad to hear it.

and they probably secretly had a good hard laugh at how easy it was to fool the plain people of Ireland (some of whom enjoy sneering at the gullibility of Americans) into believing the city was going to be razed to the ground by rabid anarchist monsters/filthy dopey hippies (take your pick).

Just like many others probably secretly had a good laugh at how easy it is to fool the anarchists/hippies/crusties into thinking that the police are monsters who want to go and start serious fights every time there's a riot.

Its funny. I'm laughing at how both sides prior to the event made the other out to be the monster, and yet with the event having gone off with a mostly peaceful damp squib (rather than a violent bang) both sides are now aopparently completely ignoring all of that, and instead laughing at the fearful overreactions of the other side.

Its a pity Beamish isn't sold over here. I'd welcome the consistency in a world gone mad.

jc

monument

Originally posted by bonkey
Unarmoured police? (bear in mind why the riot police were called in)

[see the end of this post]

Originally posted by bonkey
Oh - hang on...you've offered a reasonable way to do so. Hmm. Thats from a post where someone suggested that the 100 people not causing trouble should have all sat down, leaving the troublemakers standing on their own, isn't it?

I quoted what I did because I was asked what the police should do, not the protesters.

Originally posted by bonkey
I notice you snipped out those key sentences at the start...that wouldn't be because that post was actually a suggestion as to what the protestors should have done in order to prevent the riot police being needed....and not a suggestion as to what the police should have done as you protray it here. No?

No, because I was asked about the police, and I replying to such.

Originally posted by bonkey
So did this happen, or are you just suggesting that the police should have walked into a standing crowd of...

I was suggesting such.

Originally posted by bonkey
...120-ish people who's individual intent was not clear, nor were they hampered in any way from being in a prone position (i.e. sitting).

All I have to say to that is god help the police if they every have to go into a nightclub or large pub... well they could always put on riot gear. :rolleyes:

All I have to say to that is god help the police if they every have to go into a nightclub or large pub... well they could always put on riot gear.

Oddly enough I'm curious to know the type of nightclub that you frequent that has fights that involves twenty or more individuals....

Nightclub fights are a lot different, in that the people that caused the trouble at the protest intentionally caused it. I.e. They came prepared to do violence. Outside a nightclub, I can't remember the last time I've seen more than 8 people fighting at the one time.... and they certainly didn't have bottles filled with sand or such to use as weapons.

I said already there were calls to do that and I thought it was a good idea at the time but people who knew better said that everyone should stay on their feet.

Who were these people that knew better? The event organisers?
<just wondering>

Oh ffs, that's wrong. The "muppets" were in the front line, they didn't throw anything and didn't have any weapons. The gardai knew they weren't in any danger from the stuff that was being lobbed by idiots further back, they knew we weren't going to be able to push our way through 4 lines of riot cops and they're not thick enough to wade into a crowd to pick up someone who threw an empty beer can or plastic bottle and risk escalating the situation unnecessarily.

ok... so where did the missiles that hit the Gardai come from? Why is it that there's this insane urge to stand toe-to-toe with an advancing Gardai line, dressed up in Riot Gear. Surely, there was some impulse in your brain that suggested the wisest thing to do was move away? And didn't you realise that by standing in front of the muppets that were throwing stuff, you providing a wonderful barrier to the police that these muppets could exploit? Oddly enough, I'm amazed at teh Gardai's restraint.

monument

Originally posted by klaz
Oddly enough I'm curious to know the type of nightclub that you frequent that has fights that involves twenty or more individuals....

Think about what I said in relation to how many police would turn up a night club/bar to how many people whose individual intent would not be clear there would be, compared with the amount of police at the riot.

People’s individual intent, which would not be clear, was what I was replying to.

Think about what I said in relation to how many police would turn up a night club/bar to how many people whose individual intent would not be clear there would be, compared with the amount of police at the riot.

Huh? I must admit you've totally lost me.

People’s individual intent, which would not be clear, was what I was replying to.

Unfortuently there is more likelyhood of a Mob mentality being present at a protest or March than at 3 am after a nightclub.

monument

Originally posted by klaz
Huh? I must admit you've totally lost me.

As I said... people’s individual intent, which would not be clear, was what I was replying to.

Jack Frost

i'm not going to claim to be well educated about politics or know anything valid to this argument and there is probably a million arguments against what i'm going to say but still: in my opinion the may day protests were a disgrace, if people want their views to be heard and taken seriously then do protest, but do so maturely, by throwing bottels and cursing at the riot police you will be ignored. go out, make your point and continue to do so until you are listened to. the police and government are not the peoples enemy (well they try not to be anyway). and i'm also aware of how water cannons and riot police are like a magnet for dumb anarcists that are just bored, so the police were asking for it too. - jack frost

pork99

I'm proud of the way the Garda handled the protests. I think it was just right, neither too light nor too heavy handed. They kept their cool, contained the situation in a professional and disciplined manner and thankfully we did not have the same f-up as at the reclaim the streets event 2 years ago.

monument

It looks as if the Irish Council for Civil Liberties at least partly agrees with my view on the policing... [typed from the printed edition]....


Irish Council for Civil Liberties calls for inquiry into May Day policing

Joe Humphereys
The Irish Times
Saturday, May 8, 2004

The Irish council for civil Liberties has called for an inquiry into the level of force used by gardaí policing anti-capitalist protests in Dublin on May Day.

Ms Aisling Reiling, director of the council, said the security operation mounted by the gardaí over the weekend was “not proportionate”, given that the threat to public disorder which had been posed by demonstrators.

“There is an obligation on the gardaí to give an account as to why force was used, and whether it was reasonably in the circumstances. We are told that there is no particular review or investigation of use of force. That is worrying because there should be a review.” She was speaking yesterday at the released footage by the organisers of the May Day protests showing an unarmed demonstrator being struck twice by a member of the Garda’s public order unit.

The footage also showed Garda water cannons being directed at people sitting on walls next (to) the Phoenix Park’s Ashtown gate. One cameraman was subsequently thrown from the wall and knocked unconscious.

Dublin Grassroots Network which organized the protest rally, said several protesters were seriously injured in the confrontation on the Navan Road. These included a woman who suffered a burst eardrum when she was hit in the side of the head by a water-cannon. More then a dozen other people suffered “severe bruising” and lacerations.

A spokeswoman for the group, Ms Liz Curry, said the Garda’s “heavy-handed” approach to the protest reflected an international trend towards the “criminalization of political dissent”.

She said Ireland was moving towards the example of the US where dissenters were knowen as “domestic terrorists”. Ms Reidy said she believed the freedom to protest was “unfairly restricted” over the weekend.

She clamed a Garda decision to station riot police at a prearranged protest meeting point at Parkgate Street was an infringement of proper procedures.

She added she was also concerned about the use of arrest, search and seizure powers in the run-up to the demonstrations was in violation of Article 5 of the European Convention of Human Rights, which guaranteed the right to individual liberty and security.

A Garda spokesman said normal practice after any major policing even wound be to hold a debriefing session, and the policing of the May Day demonstrations would be no exception.

However, he said, if there were any complaints, these should be directed to the Garda Complaints Board.