Do you think it healthy for a child to have Gay Parents ?

Atreides

Originally posted by kc3po
The FACTS are that kids raised in gay homes turn out just fine. In fact it turns out that boys raised in lesbian homes are much more respectful of the women in there lives than those raised in heterosexual homes.

Fine is very subjective term, rather they probably turn out as mess up as they would have been if they where raise by a heterosexual family. Wither you like it or not all parents have a certain negative effect on there children, there are no prefect parents. The fact that you are lesbians raising kids simply means that the negative effects are different then others, as are the positive effects.

The point you make about males raised in lesbian homes are more respectful towards women, what does that mean? I've a friend raised by females and he is completely incapable of dealing with women due to his view of them as being some how better then him. I know several gentle men, all single because women go for bastards, not the respectful male.

It is important for kids to have role models of different sexes. No argument here. For us it means providing our kids with male role models whom we choose. How many "normal" or single parent families do that.

So you grom your child to be the perfect by only subjecting him to male puberty which you deem suitable? You're going to have major problems when your son hits puberty and you can no longer control the influences that he is subjected to. Its natural to want to protect your children, but you can't decide who your child will become. I don't want to come across as sound like, I'm male and therefore I know your son better then you cause you female, just that you may be faced one day with your son resenting you for the face he isn't like all the other lads. I know its a dirty word, but some kids just want to be "normal". when the rest of his friends (and he will have friends like this) are out doing the whole young male on the town bit, he won't.


All that said I find what you have said so far interesting and would be interested in hearing more about your situation.

monument

Originally posted by Skanger
You're going to have major problems when your son hits puberty and you can no longer control the influences that he is subjected to.

That sounds err... nomaly.

Atreides

Originally posted by monument
That sounds err... nomaly.

Does it? I'd say the backlash would be directed proportional to the amounth of control you tried to place the child under. Having no sense of his own male identity can lead to allot of problems. I don't really think I'm expressing my view point very well here.

The point I'm trying to make is, that no matter what the influence my father was in my life, for better or worse, he showed me as much about the man I wanted to be as he did the man I didn't want to be, you may have the first part nailed kc3po but in my experience the latter is just as important.

monument

Originally posted by Skanger
The point I'm trying to make is, that no matter what the influence my father was in my life, for better or worse, he showed me as much about the man I wanted to be as he did the man I didn't want to be, you may have the first part nailed kc3po but in my experience the latter is just as important.

Now that’s what I call a fatal flaw - issuing your argument completely invalid, showing your emotional bias to what you think is right because it is normal to you.

Atreides

Originally posted by monument
Now that’s what I call a fatal flaw - issuing your argument completely invalid, showing your emotional bias to what you think is right because it is normal to you.

Conclusion is flawed because your premise is flawed. Also I didn't mention the words right or normal. you did.

Walter Ego

Originally posted by yellum
Given the fact that civil unions and rights for same sex couples are on the way, what do you think about gay couples having kids ?

On a purely biological level how are they going to manage this?

I don't percieve gay men as a threat to the human race but gay women are scary because they can breed twice as fast as straight people. The "gay" gene would then be passed on to the next generation at a phenominal rate. Over time we could end up with a planet populated entirely with gay women who only use the odd male offspring as a source of sperm.

My personal views apart, isn't being born gay nature's subtle way of telling you that it doesn't want you to procreate?

Zulu

Originally posted by Silent Death
On a purely biological level how are they going to manage this?

I don't percieve gay men as a threat to the human race but gay women are scary because they can breed twice as fast as straight people. The "gay" gene would then be passed on to the next generation at a phenominal rate. Over time we could end up with a planet populated entirely with gay women who only use the odd male offspring as a source of sperm.

My personal views apart, isn't being born gay nature's subtle way of telling you that it doesn't want you to procreate?

sorry - but I had to laugh

monument

Originally posted by Silent Death
My personal views apart, isn't being born gay nature's subtle way of telling you that it doesn't want you to procreate?

I cant see why, it's not like just because one is gay they cant procreate.

Atreides

Originally posted by monument
I cant see why, it's not like just because one is gay they cant procreate.

It would be nice if you made some logical arguements to back up your comments about my post, so i could debate the issue with you.

Walter Ego

Originally posted by monument
I cant see why, it's not like just because one is gay they cant procreate.

My understanding was that gay implied a same sex only relationship. Two men on their own or two women on their own can't create a child. In either case a member of the opposite sex must be involved, even if only as a donor.
Now if both sexes are involved surely that means at least a bi-sexual relationship which is different from mono-sex relationship i.e. gay.

Is there any chance that a lot of the people who claim to be gay are in fact straight but crave the attention/notoriety that open gayness brings? Are many of these people living a lie? Is this why many so called gay people exhibit the natural urge to have children, because they are not gay at all but just cannot cope with inter-personal relationships in they same way as the majority of people?

Zulu

Originally posted by Silent Death
My understanding was that gay implied a same sex only relationship. Two men on their own or two women on their own can't create a child. In either case a member of the opposite sex must be involved, even if only as a donor.
Now if both sexes are involved surely that means at least a bi-sexual relationship which is different from mono-sex relationship i.e. gay.

Is there any chance that a lot of the people who claim to be gay are in fact straight but crave the attention/notoriety that open gayness brings? Are many of these people living a lie? Is this why many so called gay people exhibit the natural urge to have children, because they are not gay at all but just cannot cope with inter-personal relationships in they same way as the majority of people?

Dunno about that. I'm straight and no matter how much attention I required - dunno if I could get aroused by a man.
Women, I know, do the trick.

kc3po

The point you make about males raised in lesbian homes are more respectful towards women, what does that mean? I've a friend raised by females and he is completely incapable of dealing with women due to his view of them as being some how better then him.

What that means is that it is proven statistically that it is very rare for boys raised in lesbian households to beat up their girlfriends/wives. And perhaps the women who raised your friend were anti men. We're not and that does make a difference. If boys hear growing up "all men are pigs" enough times than yes, they are going to have a negative self image. All lesbians aren't men haters! Some of my best friends are men and no not all gay men either. We try to teach our kids that they are special but that it's important to be nice.

So you grom your child to be the perfect by only subjecting him to male puberty which you deem suitable?

So, you're saying that because we provide positive male role models we'll be subjecting our sons to our suitable puberty! I'm sorry but here I have to laugh!
Since when has any parent had a say in the type of puberty their child has. I mean you really must be reading between lines I can't even see and they are my lines! My sons are pre-pubescent so not an issue yet. And when they are I think I'll have as much input into who their role models are as my parents did(i.e. none). However, as I don't have a crystal ball lying around I'll have to wait and see on that one.

I know its a dirty word, but some kids just want to be "normal". when the rest of his friends (and he will have friends like this) are out doing the whole young male on the town bit, he won't.

You seem to have the impression that we're going to lock the boys up. This couldn't be further from the truth. There is no reason why they won't be out on the town like every other young man. They won't be moving schools so they should keep some friends throughout.

I don't know everything and learn something new everyday, sometimes even from boards like these.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it'd be a boring world if we all agreed on everthing all the time. And our own experience makes us biased. So what!




And thanks to Ioxy

Zombrex

Originally posted by Silent Death
Is this why many so called gay people exhibit the natural urge to have children, because they are not gay at all but just cannot cope with inter-personal relationships in they same way as the majority of people?

You think that "true" gay people do not have a natural jurge to have, and care for, children. That it is purely a straight thing?

Why? I don't see how the two would be connected. Gay people have the instinct to care for children like everyone else. (BTW I'm straight, but i know this from talks with gay couples).

Walter Ego

Originally posted by Wicknight
Gay people have the instinct to care for children like everyone else. (BTW I'm straight, but i know this from talks with gay couples).

Don't listen to them. They are either lying or delusional.

yellum

Originally posted by Silent Death
Don't listen to them. They are either lying or delusional.

Of course they are. :dunno:

Zombrex

Originally posted by Silent Death
Don't listen to them. They are either lying or delusional.

I hope that was a joke :dunno:

Walter Ego

Sort of, but it wasn't my best effort. Sorry.:(

Memnoch

I think that gay couples would be just as good at raising kids as non-gay couples. However if any couple(gay or not) wishes to adopt a child, I certainly hope they are sure they intend to stay together and raise the child together

That being said, I'm not at all convinced that homosexuality is "genetic" in nature, and that people are born "gay". I'll accept that genetics may play a role in determining sexuality, but I don't believe that, thats all it boils down to. In my opinon nurture does have a strong role to play, and I would probably concur with vader's point, that if someone's parent's are gay they are probably more likely to turn out gay than someone's parents who are not. But I don't see anything wrong with that, so I stick to my original statement, that in my opinion gay couple's should have the same rights, as straight couples, weather it comes to kids, marriage, domestic violance, or daily chocolate allowance :P

boomdogman

Yeah we need them here, there's just not enough good christian prejudice around in this country!
And whats wrong with keeping slaves? I want some. And lets burn a few withches and stone a few adulters.

mekere

Whats health got to do with it??
Do we beat our children or feed them unhealthy food??????
To bring our children up without ignorance of other religions, nationalities etc and to have an unblinkered outlook to life is what we should be striving for.

Parenting is a tough an thankless job, one which we are not paid for but which we are meant to excel at. Nobody is the perfect parent. But if its a job that you know with all your heart you would love to do why should you be turned away. If it was any other job and you were discriminated against because of what you do between the sheets you could bring a case to the court of human rights.

At the end of the day to be a good parent is tough no matter who you are. It doesn't make it any more different as each home and each family are different. No ones upbringing is the same and yes it is up to us as parents to make it as good a start as we possibly can for our children. But to be honest I couldn't have cared less what my mother or father did sexually (yuch!) as long as I felt loved and had a safe and secure home.


I hope I have made some semblance of sense!!!
(and just so you know I am a Gay parent with a very healthy well adjusted 8 year old son who is very popular in school and at home, any other gay parents out there please make yourself known!!!!)

LegacyUser

As a GAY PERSON, I actually agree with the statement that homosexuality is a natural/physical anomaly - not found elsewhere in nature, etc. Saying that I am 100% comfotable with my own orientation.

But growing children identify with their same-gendered parents, and use them as their role models (both consciously and unconsciously). And I don't think it's fair to risk influencing a child's sexuality, not in the world we live in at the moment.

So in THAT respect, it's something I'd be a little bit cautious about.

Saying that, gay people are far more likely to be tolerant, and would be much more likely to bring their children up to be open, honest and tolerant of all races, religions, etc. Which would do a lot of good for this unfair world.

What I'm trying to say is, there are both good and bad points. But I can't come to a conclusion, and I don't think it's going to be viable for some time.

dark_knight_ire

Its warped, and i would fear the way the kids would turn out. Whatever about marrage this who kids thing is wrong

Zillah

Why is there no discussion on if parents with low IQs can be parents? Or people with criminal records? Or those known to be racist? Or ignorant of basic science or literature? Those lacking education? Those with emotional problems stemming from their own childhood? Those who see psychologists? Those who take behaviour altering medication?


The point is that there are thousands of reasons that a person wouldn't make a good parent. The question of homosexuality being a good or bad thing is just one of the many many many reasons that a person would or wouldn't make a good parent.

An alcoholic, rascist, ignorant and intolerant straight person?
An otherwise normal queer?


Which would you prefere?


There's also the simple point that people will have children if they want. Straight people will make babies, queer couples will find a surrogate mother, or a sperm donar. For this to really be an issue you'd have to decide to disallow certain people from having children. And making that apply only to queers would be the height of discrimination for all the reason I've mentioned above.




Disclaimer : I'm queer so im allowed to say the word queer. :P

Rock Climber

Originally posted by dark_knight_ire
Its warped, and i would fear the way the kids would turn out. Whatever about marrage this who kids thing is wrong

wonderfully informative of you there as to your reasoning on the rights and wrongs of parenthood.:rolleyes: Care to enlighten us in more than a sentence as to why you think it's warped?
Do back up your assertions with research and examples so we can take a look at them and perhaps enlighten you...
Assuming as appears to be obvious, you haven't read the rest of this thread.

Originally posted by phlematic
Why is there no discussion on if parents with low IQs can be parents? Or people with criminal records? Or those known to be racist? Or ignorant of basic science or literature? Those lacking education? Those with emotional problems stemming from their own childhood? Those who see psychologists? Those who take behaviour altering medication?

Perhaps because this is a Lesbian Gay and Bisexual board.
Other issues regarding who should be a parent or not are often discussed in Humanities
It's not that the other issues are ignored on boards.ie, it's just that specific gay related themes are dealt with here

ecksor

I should point out that boards also has a Parenting forum.

MarcusGarvey

Originally posted by Rock Climber

Perhaps because this is a Lesbian Gay and Bisexual board.

Er, maybe I'm wrong but I assumed that Phlemy there meant it in regards to people saying why gay people shouldn't be parents and these peopl choose to ignore way better reasons for people not to have kids.

To me, and this may sound naive but all that matters is love. If a parent loves their child they'll be a good parent. While love is a small, short, four-letter word it's defintion is complex and lenghty.

ixoy

Originally posted by dark_knight_ire
Its warped, and i would fear the way the kids would turn out. Whatever about marrage this who kids thing is wrong

Now that's a constructive post :rolleyes: I mean if you have a differing point-of-view, it'd be nice to try and assert it with a bit more of the thought processes that led you here.
Anyhow, Rock Climber I'm with Marcus Garvey on this one - I think Phlematic's point is a very good one: many are so quick to condone gay marriage and yet they seem to think nothing should be done about situations that have been
proven to have a detrimental effect on children - e.g. abusive parenting. Whereas there is no evidence that gay parenting is detrimental - it's all pure supposition, based on a load of "but what ifs" and preying on people's ignorance and fears. You know children of inter-racial marriages would once have been possibly subject to scorn, or seen as "wrong" by traditionalists, and yet now we'd think nothing of it. Now we've moved on, as part of social progress, and gay adoption - the way gay people will go to generally get children - is surely the next step. Because surely, as Marcus Garvey has said, loving parents are the most important factor of all.

thomas/paul

i think that it is unfair to depribe any one of having the opertunity of raising a child, its the same if one has reproductive problems its not fair. any way children will probley be bullied anyway.

simu

As long as parents love their kids, look after them well, teach them, it doesn't matter what their genders and sexual orientation is imo.

As for Irish society not being used to gay parents - Irish society wasn't used to feminism, to freely available contraception, to homosexuality being decriminalised, to divorce etc etc - if we had waited for everybody in the country to be "ready" for these things, we still wouldn't have them today. It's not fair to deprive people of rights because of the prejudices and fears of others.