Do you think it healthy for a child to have Gay Parents ?

Zombrex

Originally posted by Vader

Children are very impressionable and tend to copy the actions/morals/thinking of their parents. I dont mean to be cruel or insulting but homosexuality is an abnormality. It is something you are born with, and not anybodies fault and not a reason to be discriminated against but at the same time I dont feel it is something to be encouraged.

What???

There is nothing wrong with it but it is not good morals?

You are born gay, but you shouldn't impress gayness onto children?

It's not anyones fault but you shouldn't encourage it?

You shouldn't discriminate against it but you shouldn't let gays adopt?

Again ... what???

Originally posted by Flashman

Of course homosexuality is unnatural, it is contrary to our, and every other living thing, natural instinct to procreate.

Please!!. Procreation hasn't had anything to do with "sex" in the last 50000 years.

Blowjobs,
Anal Sex between a man and a (very suggestable) woman,
Sex with a condom,
hand jobs
titty f**ks
going down,
pulling out
vibrators
clit rings
cock rings
toe sucking
(and that is a slow day for me )

Sex is about pleasure. Homosexuality is only as strange as any any form of sex that does not directly relate in the birth of a child. It is "unnatural" to have sex of any kind that does not result in procreation. We are all unnatural!!!! We have been for thousands of years. So get off the whole high horse of "gays are not natural".

When was the last time any of you were natural?

Originally posted by Vader

Not that they'll be under pressure but that the influence would be sub conscious which is the way most impressions about normality are made

By the same token i seriously think we should stop vegaterians adopting

Not only will the poor children have the crap kicked out of them at school because their parents are pussies and make them eat tofo "beef" burgers at the annual sports day, but the children will most likely, subconsciously grow up to be hippies.
And I hate hippies!!!

BuffyBot

I didnt say genetic and the word abnormality doesnt suggest genetic. The word is a poor choice, but hey Ive said that already. I never said that the parents wouldnt be loving. Racism is passed on in families. Think about it.

Urrrm...yes you did. You said people are born gay. So therefore a child that isn't "born gay" can live with gay parents and not turn out gay.

Racism? Are you afraid the child might turn out "gay-ish"?

uberwolf

Most heterosexual couples shouldn't be allowed have children.

LegacyUser

ohmigod st8 ppl r sooo stupid. its d same agruement over n over again. shud put em on an island n let em kill each other for pits sake!!!

Havelock

I have one transvestite parent, one nerotic mess parent, they were both hippies and left wing liberals. They hated each other through out my late childhood and my teenage years, they finially seprated last year (Thank the gods).
After growing up in that environment, being aware of the tension between them, being picked on in school for my hippish habits and freedom of expression I turned out ok and now I am a loving, well developed, mostly hetrosexual and clean cut (Not an alocholic or drug user) sort of guy. They love me as much as they did when I was a child if not more so, I knew they were there for me, that I could talk to them and they loved me.

Thats what a child needs. It doesn't matter if you have two mothers or two fathers, even one parent as long as the child has a loving home and is cared for.

So I think is it fine if same sex couples have children, via adoption or what ever other means.

sparkite

gay parents may be good parents but the poor child will get an awful time at school etc.the world aint ready for it yet im afraid, the time will come someday i suppose

yellum

I thought the same about he kid getting stick in school cos of the parents but I'm not sure would that be something traumatic since kids make fun of everything and anything.

Even though there are lies, damned lies and statistics/surveys I'll just link to this article that says kids from same sex couple are just as well-adjusted as kids from heterosexual couples

Beruthiel

Originally posted by sparkite
gay parents may be good parents but the poor child will get an awful time at school etc.the world aint ready for it yet im afraid, the time will come someday i suppose

kids get picked on for all sorts of things, whither you are black, jewish, muslim, yellow, too tall, too fat, too blah, blah, at least same sex parents actually want the child, not all kids out there can say that. There are many heterosexual parents out there who have no clue how to bring up a child and many who don’t give a toss about their kid. Baring in mind that there are many orphans out there dying for a loving, caring environment why not give them to same sex couples who want them.
I see no problem at all

BEAT

Originally posted by Beruthiel
kids get picked on for all sorts of things, whither you are black, jewish, muslim, yellow, too tall, too fat, too blah, blah, at least same sex parents actually want the child, not all kids out there can say that. There are many heterosexual parents out there who have no clue how to bring up a child and many who don’t give a toss about their kid. Baring in mind that there are many orphans out there dying for a loving, caring environment why not give them to same sex couples who want them.
I see no problem at all

I totally agree with Beruth. I can also say that for a few years growing up I lived with my aunt who is gay and I was never picked on, quite the opposite actually, all my friends thought she was the coolest person and wanted to hang out with us. I feel that because I have been exposed to an alternative lifestyle I am better for it, I dont feel threatened by it or that it is unnatural. We talk about her Lifestyle and relationships all the time and we talk about mine, it's life people. It is about a person who wants to be in a relationship with another person that they love...just like heterosexual people. People are frightened by anything different that what they know or understand and that is where the gay bashing stems from etc...also where racism and things of the like are stemmed from...Ignorance.

Vader

My mother and father are two good ppl but I have a very diff relationship with both of them. My father is a strong discipline figure and my mother is over protective. They are in some ways the steriotypical parents of their generation. I would not like too have two parents like my mother, or two like my father but the combination of the two of them.

LegacyUser

Don't want to sound silly but i'd hazard a guess that kids pick up accents and some manerisms from family, if two really camp guys raised a boy he could be straight but end up camper than most gays.

ixoy

Originally posted by bananayoghurt
Don't want to sound silly but i'd hazard a guess that kids pick up accents and some manerisms from family, if two really camp guys raised a boy he could be straight but end up camper than most gays.

Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear. Here's my own version than:

Don't want to sound silly but i'd hazard a guess that kids pick up accents and some manrisms from family, if two really outwardly agressive parents raised a boy he could be straight but end up more psychotic than most straights.

And really, y'know, if those damned gays made him camp - and you know there's not much of an argument there anyway - then.... well then so what? If he's raised in a loving environment, been succesful, so what?!

Oh and P.S. - "camper than most gays" - how many gay men you know, besides Graham Norton?

boomdogman

For sheer applied ignorance and stupidity its hard to beat Vaders posting. Lets set a few things straight (so to speak).
The remote tolerance of gay people that Vader seems to be able to bring himself to manage is a dressed up form of Nazism. No he is not going to send us to the labour camps but he is going to "discourage" us by making life as difficult and miserable as he can for us without dirtying his hands with our blood.
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. It is neither encourageable or discourageable, it merely exists. What confuses people like Vader( and I do not mean this as an insult) is the huge,unprecedented social revolution in Western world which has seen gay people come out of their ancient closet and become visible.

Children of openly gay parents (do you really believe all parents are really straight?) are no more or less likely to be gay(tho this is only mo thuarim fein as data on human sexuality is vague, anomolous,hard to find and notoriously unreliable) than children of straight parents.
But I can make that assertion at least based on personal expirience of being gay, Vader and those who share his opinions can only base them on an instinctive dislike of those they see as different. As the child of a very conservative family in a fairly remote rural area I had every "discouragement" to be gay. Hunderds of gay men learned camp (the harmless variety) apparently out of thin air, without a lisp or giggle in their butch, straight parents. I am not a fan of camp behaviour but to use it as one poster does, as an argument against gays adopting is plain ludicrous. Should all adoptive parents take a behaviour and mannerism test to satisfy this conformist urge?
Bullying is a separate issue and a very sore one. I was bullied severly at school and how dare any one suggest it is the fault of the victim or that a kid can stand up for himself? Teachers and parents a responsible for the behaviourof the bullies who are the fault. Tolerance of vicious behaviour that would have an adult arrested and jailed is central to the bullying issue .

Much of the posting on this topic has merely been thinly disguised homophobia.
The notion that it would be a terrible thing for a child to grow up gay is repulsive. All humans should be valued for what they are. I even value Vader tho I had to learn to do this!

Only the aceptance of gay peple as fully human with all the rights (and wrongs!) of the human family is is woth talking about. Vader stands on the edge of Nazism, intolerance and bigotry, but well inside the dark place where gay people are less than human.

ixoy

*applauds boomdogman's post*

yellum

Originally posted by ixoy
*applauds boomdogman's post*

I saw him first ! Actually if I hadn't proposed to my boyfriend I'd nearly give a ring to boomdogman.

Vader

For sheer applied ignorance and stupidity its hard to beat Vaders posting. Lets set a few things straight (so to speak). .

While this belligerent statement sets the tone for ground breaking revelations and logic, none follows. Only meaningless mantras and hypocritical flameing. There is no substance to any of it.

The remote tolerance of gay people that Vader seems to be able to bring himself to manage is a dressed up form of Nazism. No he is not going to send us to the labour camps but he is going to "discourage" us by making life as difficult and miserable as he can for us without dirtying his hands with our blood.

Making life miserable and difficult? I said quite clearly (if you read all my posts) that I believe that same-sex marriages should be legal. I also said that ppl in same-sex relationships should be entitled to all the benefits that ppl in same sex relationships get.

I see how this might seem the same thing (to a pig ignorant, whining, self righteous, attention seeker like you) as torturing millions in a calculated and sadistic way to satisfy greed, murdering ppl for no reason other than you can in a perverted self adulation. To destroy millions of homes, families and lives in a twisted pursuit of self glory. Maybe Nazi is some kind of buzz word that you like to throw around to claim the moral high ground or gain sympathy; but you listen up you little shít. Don’t talk about things you nothing about and dont use a word with such far reaching implications.

Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. It is neither encourageable or discourageable, it merely exists. What confuses people like Vader( and I do not mean this as an insult) is the huge,unprecedented social revolution in Western world which has seen gay people come out of their ancient closet and become visible.

Pedophilia is a sexual orientation . Pedophilia should be discouraged. Pedophilia exists, that cant be solved, it something the pedophile cant help. (encourageable and discourageable aren't words).

Vader isn’t the one that’s confused here. You want a lifestyle that isn’t natural yet you don’t understand why you cant have children.
A thread is created asking ppl who aren’t gay what do they think about gay adoption yet you cant understand why opinions contrary to your own are given (if the thread was only being addressed to gays then it was an idiotic thread. If you only wanted one answer don’t post a poll). And I hate to be cruel but you asked for it; if you don’t know what to do with your reproductive organs then your confused.

Children of openly gay parents (do you really believe all parents are really straight?) are no more or less likely to be gay(tho this is only mo thuarim fein as data on human sexuality is vague, anomolous,hard to find and notoriously unreliable) than children of straight parents

Do I believe ppl in long term, serious and consummated heterosexual relationships are in fact heterosexuals? Yes!!! You might be able to tell me their bi-sexual but not that they've no heterosexual tendencies.

Was that little bit of Irish supposed to be some sort of dig?

Anomolous isn’t a word. It doesn’t even resemble a word.

Your stating there is no evidence to work off, if you work of that statement then you are using applied ignorance. Ironic is one word. Moronic is another.

But I can make that assertion at least based on personal expirience of being gay, Vader and those who share his opinions can only base them on an instinctive dislike of those they see as different.

You don’t know anything about me you arrogant, presumptuous, son of a bítch.
Those they see as different, afraid of change, jealous of our freedom. All self reassuring bull shít from self deluding cowards afraid to face the truth. You are a self righteous fcker.

As the child of a very conservative family in a fairly remote rural area I had every "discouragement" to be gay. Hunderds of gay men learned camp (the harmless variety) apparently out of thin air, without a lisp or giggle in their butch, straight parents. I am not a fan of camp behaviour but to use it as one poster does, as an argument against gays adopting is plain ludicrous. Should all adoptive parents take a behaviour and mannerism test to satisfy this conformist urge?

Don’t associate me with bananayoghurt. I made no reference to "camp" in my posts. You mention my name then you stick to what I say you sly little bag of puss.

Bullying is a separate issue and a very sore one. I was bullied severly at school and how dare any one suggest it is the fault of the victim or that a kid can stand up for himself? Teachers and parents a responsible for the behaviourof the bullies who are the fault. Tolerance of vicious behaviour that would have an adult arrested and jailed is central to the bullying issue .

And how dare you suggest that you have a monopoly on suffering in this world! I didn’t say a kid can stand up for himself, ppl who are bullied usually are bullied because they cant stand up for themselves. You expect the same level of maturity from love deprived simpletons as adults. You are an ignorant, intolerant muppet.

Much of the posting on this topic has merely been thinly disguised homophobia.
The notion that it would be a terrible thing for a child to grow up gay is repulsive. All humans should be valued for what they are. I even value Vader tho I had to learn to do this!

You used the most disgusting, vile, derogatory and heartless term in the English language to insult me. You repeatedly referred to me as an ignorant muppet. Now you want to claim moral superiority. You are a lying hypocrite.

Only the aceptance of gay peple as fully human with all the rights (and wrongs!) of the human family is is woth talking about. Vader stands on the edge of Nazism, intolerance and bigotry, but well inside the dark place where gay people are less than human.

The cornerstone of my arguments have been the best interest of the child. You cant see that because you’re a selfish príck who values his own desire for a child above the chills welfare. You are not fit to be a parent.

What I said was quite clear but since you were too lazy to read what I wrote and not intelligent enough to disregard your bias and self interest I'll spell it out quite clearly for you.

* I have no problem with homosexuals or bisexuals. I don’t care if you believe that, you seem to be an arrogant presumptuous fck

* I agree with same-sex marriages. These relationships should be entitled to all the privileges accorded heterosexual marriages.

*Same-sex couples should be allowed to foster older children, 16 years or older

All of the above I have clearly said. Open your eyes you close minded dick.

The only thing I would not grant homosexuals is the right to adopt. Nobody has the right to have children (according to the UN declaration of human rights).

Children are impressionable. That is not open to debate. It is the basis of communication and education. It is clear in every walk of life.

Yes I believe homosexuality is not something to be encouraged. I see you having a problem with that statement, but think back to the pedophilia analogy. Do you think pedophilia should be encouraged? Then be tolerant of an opinion similar to your own.
Why shouldn’t homosexuality be encouraged? Well you tell me what would happen if everyone was gay. Who's children would you adopt?

I know the argument is there that many ppl who have children don’t deserve them. So what? I'm not going to be forced into choosing the lesser of two evils (a well know phrase, no biblical implication intented).

Nazi is not a term to be thrown around, least of all to ppl who you don’t know.

Gummy Panda

Originally posted by Vader

Yes I believe homosexuality is not something to be encouraged. I see you having a problem with that statement, but think back to the pedophilia analogy. Do you think pedophilia should be encouraged? Then be tolerant of an opinion similar to your own.
Why shouldn’t homosexuality be encouraged? Well you tell me what would happen if everyone was gay. Who's children would you adopt?

Why shouldn't homosexuality be encouraged? homosexuality is pretty much love in same sex relationships. Whether a man/woman loves a man/woman, its still love.

And isn't love the most important thing to teach children.

You don't seem to understand wat yellum and others are saying. They didn't chose to be gay, they were born that way. The same way i was born heterosexual.

I think homosexual couples should be given the full rights that heterosexual couples are given. Just cause both parents have the same reproduction organs doesn't make them any less of loving caring parents.

yellum

vader has been banned from this forum for his direct abuse to another poster. I don't mind his arguments but I do mind his abusiveness. If any other poster would like to get as abusive I'll ban them too. This includes abuse directed at vader.

sceptre

Originally posted by Vader
Anomolous isn’t a word. It doesn’t even resemble a word.

Resembles this on fairly closely if you change an o to an a.

seamus

Originally posted by Vader

Yes I believe homosexuality is not something to be encouraged. I see you having a problem with that statement, but think back to the pedophilia analogy. Do you think pedophilia should be encouraged? Then be tolerant of an opinion similar to your own.
Why shouldn’t homosexuality be encouraged? Well you tell me what would happen if everyone was gay. Who's children would you adopt?

Your comparison is flawed. Paedophilia in it's garden or vulgaris form involves the exploitation of one person for the enjoyment of another. The key point is that in Paedophilia, there's no duality. How can a 2 year old child understand the reason for pictures being taken of him naked? In most other forms of sexual orientation, both (or all, if that's your thing) parties are aware of what's happening, are consentual in it happening. Paedophilia is not like that.
Apart from that, you don't decide your sexual orientation. You either are or you aren't. Homosexuality/Bisexuality are genetic anomalies, but so is short-sightedness, diabetes, cancer and a thousand other things that aren't stigmatised, and certainly aren't discouraged.

For the record, I'm straight, and wholly convinced that hate/fear/dislike/uncomfortableness of homosexuality are a product of insecurity in one's own sexuality and/or ignorance.

yellum

Thread split. You are allowed to use the "New Thread" option.

boomdogman

Pity Vader is barred cos he is right on a number of issues tho he does manage to put his rights together to make a good fat wrong. What I said was not directed at him but the substance of his arguement, The opening of my reply was to strong and should not have been phrased like that. I am sorry my intent was not to insult or belittle you Vader: Please forgive me and return to the central argument, I do value both your contribution and view point. It is not my intention to fight with you in this reply.

And yes I spelld a word rong. I do dis lots!

No one has a right to have children, the word "right" is a sorely abused term and should only apply to the completely fundamental ie Right to life. Defining to many rights demeans the important ones and can cause uneccessary complications as we try to balance competing rights.

The question is not the right to adopt but the welfare of the child. Since I don't see the sexual orientation of the parents as defining the child's I believe arguements that gay people are unfit parents are fundamentally flawed . I can only repeat that the child of gay parents can have just as happy, useful and life enhancing childhood as the children reared by straight parents. Being gay should not rule people out of the adoption process.

Sexual Orientations are neither discourageable nor encouragable. I do not know what makes us the sexuality we are. I know a family of 3 brothers and 2 sisters all of whom are gay, yet their parents were, the on the evidence, fairly heterosexual.

Throwing child molestation (to give it what should be its proper name) into the mix is useful. Yes its an orientation but it fundamentally harms children by using them as sexual objects. It is wrong and we try to protect children from such people. What consenting adults do is their business. We are not likely to run out out populatuion because gay people are allowed live freely without persecution. No one chooses to be gay or straight based on social tolerance. If they did we would not have child molesters.

Again sorry for the offence I gave, Vader is not a nazi, forgive his anger and let him back on. People say things in anger that they regret. He is right that we need his view or we are just talking in circles.

p

Originally posted by Vader
I didnt say the couple wouldnt love the child. My issue isnt with the couple, its with the childs mind and the impact its peers would have on them or any hampering in that childs own sexual growth.

What about handicapped people. Should they be allowed adopt. Someone in a wheelchair for example, or someone who's deaf?

Maybe the kid would be influenced by their parents' disability and want to be disabled themselves.

Sound ludacris?

monument

Do you think it healthy for a child to have Gay Parents?

In an ideal world - no more or less then two parents of different genders.

However because of “norms of society” there can be problems such as bulling in school. So maybe it’s not currently totally healthy - because of society’s problems and not just because the parents are gay.


Given the fact that civil unions and rights for same sex couples are on the way, what do you think about gay couples having kids?

Having kids? Well I don’t think gay goats are able to have kids.

If you mean one of two female parents giving birth to a child, I see nothing morally different then a woman in a different gender relationship having a child that way.


Do you think its right for two gay men to bring a child into this world?

Already answered.


Will the child be able to handle any bullying and taunting?

That’s like asking - Will any child handle any bullying and taunting for any reason?


Will the child feel pressured to be gay the same way gay people felt pressured to conform to the norms of society?

I don’t know, I’m not gay or bisexual (nor was I when I was a child) and it’s not because of conforming to the norms of society (I have my reasons which I don’t want to discuss publicly), so I don’t know really know how gay people feel pressured about such.

But if I was imagine… yes, but it would only be normal, as when people are pressured to conform in any other case.


Do you think that once the parents look after the child and take care of it properly the sexuality of the parents doesn't matter?

Yes.

Jak

I don't think gay couples should be allowed to adopt or get a surrogate to have a child. I don't believe that a same sex couple can offer the same balance to a child's life that a natural couple can. And I use natural there in the sense that the couple can have kids by themselves. I also think that it is grossly unfair to the child, and I really don't think you can compare standard bullying to some poor kid having to pioneer the whole bloody scheme for his two dads or mums throughout their entire school and adult life.

Before someone asks if I think single mothers or fathers can give good balance to a child - the answer is - not really. That isn't to say I don't think some single parents go to great lengths and do amazing jobs, I just think it is not ideal. And while some families unfortunately end up in a single parent situation - I don't think anyone would say it is preferable. I don't think a lone individual should be allowed to adopt either.

Essentially I think unless the conditions for the child in an orphanage are very bad that the only people who should be considered for adoption are stable hetro family units ... because that is the natural environment for a child. If orphanages were really unable to cope, then maybe adoption should be opened to other categories, but I really think gay couples should be toward the end of that list of possibles, with other groups excluded altogether.

Gay people can't have kids - get over it, it's part of who you are.

JAK.

monument

Only because it’s not "natural"? Or should I say not normal?

It sounds as if your feelings against gay people are getting in the way of making an unbiased answer for the questions.

Also the way some "stable hetro family units" are bringing up children I couldn’t see gay family units doing much worse.

Jak

Is there a response or question hidden in there somewhere?

In any case I believe examples of poor parenting are no argument to use toward the rights of others who 'may not be as bad'.

monument

Originally posted by Jak
Is there a response or question hidden in there somewhere?

Just for you, here's a guide to my last post...

Originally posted by monument
Only because it’s not "natural"? Or should I say not normal?

It sounds as if your feelings against gay people are getting in the way of making an unbiased answer for the questions.

Also the way some "stable hetro family units" are bringing up children I couldn’t see gay family units doing much worse.

my response

Originally posted by monument
Only because it’s not "natural"?

a question

Originally posted by monument
Or should I say not normal?

A rhetorical (s???) question.

Originally posted by monument
It sounds as if your feelings against gay people are getting in the way of making an unbiased answer for the questions.

my conclusion from your arguments

Originally posted by monument
Also the way some "stable hetro family units" are bringing up children I couldn’t see gay family units doing much worse.

a statement

- end of guide -

Originally posted by Jak
In any case I believe examples of poor parenting are no argument to use toward the rights of others who 'may not be as bad'.

Yes, but it is when poor parenting is wide spread, I have the start of a list, – [of course some of this is societies fault] children getting access unsuitable media (print/TV/film/games/online), children smoking and drinking, children eating/drinking two much of what’s bad for them, etc…

Jak

Have you always been a moron?

A Question.

monument

Only because it’s not "natural"?

Also a question, unless - some how - you can't understand what I'm talking about.