Do you think it healthy for a child to have Gay Parents ?

yellum

Do you think it healthy for a child to have Gay Parents ?

Given the fact that civil unions and rights for same sex couples are on the way, what do you think about gay couples having kids ?

Do you think its right for two gay men to bring a child into this world ? Will the child be able to handle any bullying and taunting ? Will the child feel pressured to be gay the same way gay people felt pressured to conform to the norms of society ?

Or do you think that once the parents look after the child and take care of it properly the sexuality of the parents doesn't matter ?

Michael6754

I'd like to think that as long as the parents love each other and love the child/children then their sexuality doesn't matter. In reality, I think there is a higher probability that the children of gay parents will be bullied - we all remember our schooldays, children can be vicious if given the slightest opportunity - like being overweight, wearing glasses or for lots of other reasons - basically if a child is any different from the norm. When the schoolyard finds out the child has 2 dads or 2 mums it could get ugly - I don't think we should kid ourselves that everyone is tolerant of diversity these days.

I understand the desire to have children. If I were to do it I would want to be sure I wasn't being selfish, in just thinking of what I want regardless of the fact that my child might be subjected to years of torture at school.

claire h

Or do you think that once the parents look after the child and take care of it properly the sexuality of the parents doesn't matter ?

Yep. The important thing is for the child to be loved, to have his/her physical and emotional needs met by his/her parent or parents or guardians. Sexuality shouldn't come into it.

Sure, the kid could be bullied because he/she has two mommies or two daddies. But as was pointed out, kids can get bullied for anything. Most kids at some point in their life are going to be picked on for something, be it their parents, family, appearance, level of intelligence, friends, interests, clothes, financial status, sporting ability or lack thereof... to say that the fact that a child could be picked on because of his/her parents' sexuality is a valid reason for that child not to be brought into the world is ridiculous.

Typedef

Depends.

Fact is the State has only recently 1988 (give or take) decriminalised homosexuality, so, having 'gay' parents would increase said child's tolerance and decrease said child's inhibitions about a gay lifestyle, thus, possibly increasing the child's likelhood of being gay.

Since the state doesn't really approve of homosexuality and more accurately 'tolerates' it, in the eyes of the State homosexual parents do not foster the kind of 'moral' fibre the government would seek to predicate.

Myself, I have enough problems (trivial though they may be) without getting obsessed about gays raising children.

I'd have thought the child's access to medical care, good schooling and being raised 'right' whatever that means, were the primary benchmarks for deeming one 'fit' for parenthood.

Maybe I was wrong though, after all, this government did lobby to have 'god' included in the European constitution (forget about tax harmonisation), the Irish government spent Irish political leverage on this issue, so in this light, it's hardly surprising that gays aren't allowed adopt children in Ireland, because, quite plainly put, when the Catholic Church issues an edict to the government, it is generally the case that our pulpit politicans follow suit.

Top man John Paul!

Atreides

Basically what where talking about is children being raised exclusively by one sex? Is a child that is raised by a single woman (mother) more or less likely to be ****ed up then one raised by two women. When you think of it that way the whole discussion becomes stupid. Of course having a balanced input from both genders is important, but there are many cases where that just isn't possible and kids turn out fine.

boomdogman

Lots of very weird ,very messed up people have str8 parents. Surely the stability and love of the family of whtever shape is the important factor.
I'm gay but my parents are str8 so I reckon gay parents could rear str8 kids!

the_syco

[major edit]
Have to agree with fozzle. I've just got too much hate for bullies, which kinda made me emphasize on the wrong part of the topic.
[/major edit]
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I support the thing of gays having children.

Stark

Was never told to keep away from someone because their family was "odd". Have a good friend whose family are Jehovah's witnesses. Himself and his siblings got the usual taunting etc. from the other kids growing up, but in the end they still made friends and grew up happy despite the bullying from the more ignorant classes.

Okay, life might be slightly tougher for a child of gay parent's growing up, but that's no reason to deny the child life.

fozzle

I wouldn't see anything wrong with a gay couple having a child, I think any problems would be because of other peoples' reactions to the situation rather that the sexuality of the parents, per say.

One would certainly hope that having a loving family would be sufficient to counteract any problems encountered by such a child outside the home, but it's hard to know. The only thing is, when you think about it, the majority of people suffer some form of bullying in school, there's always some reason, whether it's the fact you have glasses, a physical or mental handicap, if you're a different colour, have only one parent, or have gay parents.

I'd hate to think that I or any of my friends would be stopped from, for instance, adopting a child, should we so choose, just because of our sexuality, but knowing the Irish adoption agency problems (my parents weren't allowed adopt a child as my father was over 45), I can't imagine that it would be easy.

Zombrex

If a kid is going to be bullied he is going to be bullied ... it has a lot more to do with the own childs personality and ability to stand up for himself than the "reason" he is being bullied ... kids in my secondary school could bully someone over there hair cut or the way the said "hello" .. if a kid is going to be bullied it won't be stopped by him not having gay parents, they would just find something else to bully him about ..likewise if a kid is popular and can stand up for himself, it won't matter than he has gay parents.

I don't think the bully issue should be used as a negative against gay parents. If you are against it because of bullying then you must also be against parents kissing their kids infront of the school gates, or making them wear 50 euro Nikes when everyone else is wearing 150 euro Nikes.

LegacyUser

Originally posted by Typedef
Depends.

Fact is the State has only recently 1988 (give or take) decriminalised homosexuality, so, having 'gay' parents would increase said child's tolerance and decrease said child's inhibitions about a gay lifestyle, thus, possibly increasing the child's likelhood of being gay.

Your post is oozing with homophobia.
A person doesn't learn how to be attracted to the same sex. If that were the case, then where did I, having straight parents, "learn" how to be gay.
The fact is, I didn't learn from anyone.. I hardly knew who or what it meant to be "gay", when I relised I was attracted to the same sex and not the opposite. To me, and most other kids growing up.. calling someone "gay" had no real meaning. It was just another way of annoying someone. I don't act like any mythical stereotype token gay person you may see on tv, I'm just me.. A person to happens to be attracted to the same sex.


A gay kid growing up with gay parents would be more likely not to repress their sexuality in later life if they were indeed gay, perhaps preventing yet another suicide. A straight kid in the same position, would be more accepting of other gay people. It simply is not possible to "learn" to be gay.

This "gay lifestyle" you speak of, is a figment of your imagination. Some gay people go to gay bars regularly, many do not go to any. Some have alot of sex, others don't. Some eat badly and smoke, others do not. Everyone is different be they gay or straight and no one lifestyle applies to such a large section of the population.

Tiesto

after seeing the results of this poll, there are defo too many gay people on boards!!!

Vader

I have nothing agains same sex relationships, I think it only right that there should be same sex marriges and benifits in kind but I am not in favour of samesex couples adopting. This is not a matter of the amount of love they could/could not give a child.
Children are very impressionable and tend to copy the actions/morals/thinking of their parents. I dont mean to be cruel or insulting but homosexuality is an abnormality. It is something you are born with, and not anybodies fault and not a reason to be discriminated against but at the same time I dont feel it is something to be encouraged. I dont think I would have a problem with samesex couples fostering children over the age of say 16/17 when the children have already began to express their sexuality. I dont mean to be insulting but thats my humble opinion.

yellum

Can you explain why it is an abnomality in your view ?

Vader

From the dictionary definition of something out of the ordinary or practiced by a minority. I couldnt think of a PC word or one that wouldnt be considered insulting.
However I must point out (not meaning to sound like a religous freak) that it isnt natural and thus why adoption is necissary.
Sorry if I offend anyone but thats my two cents.

yellum

So 10% of the population you class as abnormal ?

What about left handed people ? They are in a minority too, are they abnormal or sinister ?

Vader

tecnically yes that is an abnormality and I like the latin thing but dont take so much offence. Im not a eugenicist. You asked for opinions, now im giving mine in a reasonable manner, if you dont want it anymore because you find it repugnat fine Ill stop (send me a pm). I like arguing but not when things a very personal for ppl.

claire h

Vader - I'm sorry, you have nothing against same-sex relationships but you feel that homosexuality is an abnormality and "isn't natural"? If you're going to be a bigot at least have the decency to admit it rather than this "I have nothing against it, but..." crap.

C'mon, you hardly expected people posting on a GLB forum to *not* be offended by that, did you?

Vader

I have nothing agains same-sex relationships. I agree fully with same-sex marriges and feel they are entitled to all the benifits that go with that but I do feel that it is unfair to put a child in a position where is early life might be something he will regret. He/she will know they are adopted, less tolerent ppl (and you cant expect children to be tolerent) will give them a hard time and my ,particular point, they may not develope "healthy/normal" sexual relations.

What word would you prefer I use. I am being polite, if you cant handle honest opinions dont ask for them!:mad:

Flashman

Of course homosexuality is unnatural, it is contrary to our, and every other living thing, natural instinct to procreate. I find it ridiculous that some people, gay or not, take such offense when they hear this, or something similar, said.

Anyway, two parents of the same sex could be great parents, but their children would grow up with the burden of this on top of them. The kids peers would be strongly influenced by their parents, who have in turn been influenced by past generations in which homosexuality was completely taboo.

I feel that our society would not be able to adapt to accept this situation for a long time yet.

yellum

Originally posted by Flashman

I feel that our society would not be able to adapt to accept this situation for a long time yet.

Will they ever ? And personally do you think it should ?

Atreides

Originally posted by Vader
but I do feel that it is unfair to put a child in a position where is early life might be something he will regret.

Thats a risk any parent takes by having a child. if their good parents then why would the child regret their up bringing. I mean sure it would be great if my parents where rich and I grew up in an area that wasn't full of junkies and thiefs, but it didn't happen, and i don't regret that for an instance, cause its part of what i am. In the same way it may be preferrable to have a both a mom and a dad, but if all you can manage is either a mom or a dad or two dads or two mom's, then thats the way its got to be. Two moms/dads have to be better then just one right?

Also I read allot of this crap about being excepted by other kids and parents, are you (not actually you but in general )really suggestion that the small minded bigotry of certain elements on our society should be deciding who should and should not be allowed have children. This type of attitude saw unmarried mothers sent to work houses and their children put into care not so long ago. Take it a step futhur, should non colour couples be allowed to adopt coloured children, bound to get abuse in shool and from other kids, seen it happen myself.

BuffyBot

Originally posted by Vader
I have nothing agains same sex relationships, I think it only right that there should be same sex marriges and benifits in kind but I am not in favour of samesex couples adopting. This is not a matter of the amount of love they could/could not give a child.
Children are very impressionable and tend to copy the actions/morals/thinking of their parents. I dont mean to be cruel or insulting but homosexuality is an abnormality. It is something you are born with, and not anybodies fault and not a reason to be discriminated against but at the same time I dont feel it is something to be encouraged. I dont think I would have a problem with samesex couples fostering children over the age of say 16/17 when the children have already began to express their sexuality. I dont mean to be insulting but thats my humble opinion.

Children are very impressionable. Give us a break. So if a child grows up with gay parents who happen to be in a healthy, beneficial and loving relationship that is tolerent of difference is a bad thing?

If being gay is genetic (an abnormality even), how can "impressionable" kids be affected?

Vader

I dont mean abnormality like it was a third eye. I cant think of a good word for what Im thinking and am open to suggestions. Its hard to be different and I think it might be a lot to ask a child to deal with.Im not what you'd call a comformatist, but its not me being adopted.

I didnt say the couple wouldnt love the child. My issue isnt with the couple, its with the childs mind and the impact its peers would have on them or any hampering in that childs own sexual growth.

Vader

Originally posted by BuffyBot
Children are very impressionable. Give us a break. So if a child grows up with gay parents who happen to be in a healthy, beneficial and loving relationship that is tolerent of difference is a bad thing?

If being gay is genetic (an abnormality even), how can "impressionable" kids be affected?

I didnt say genetic and the word abnormality doesnt suggest genetic. The word is a poor choice, but hey Ive said that already. I never said that the parents wouldnt be loving. Racism is passed on in families. Think about it.

Atreides

Well they are hardy going to be having sex in front of the child now are they.

Vader

Originally posted by Skanger
Well they are hardy going to be having sex in front of the child now are they.

Have you parents ever kissed in your presence?
Thats a retorical Q

Atreides

So if a child see two males kiising hes going to turn gay. Christ my newphew thinks its grand for two males to kiss, he does it all the time and hes only 3. Don't think thats going to make him more likely to be gay.

Basically your arguement is that if you have gay parents your going to feel under pressure to be homosexual like they are, in the same way gay kids feel under pressure to conform and be straight because their perents are, and thats a fair arguement to make. But i'd make the point that no matter what the perentage the children will always be inclined towards thinking that being straight is some how more normal, and therefore more desirable then being gay, simply because the vast majority of society is straight.

Vader

Not that they'll be under pressure but that the influence would be sub conscious which is the way most impressions about normality are made

ixoy

Question then: My parents are straight. Before I accepted being gay, the high majority of my friends were also straight as were those around me. Seeing as you think it's your surroundings that make you gay, how did I become gay? Or did I catch it off someone sometime?

TCamen

Man this thread is quite serious ain't it, where's the witty gay one-liners ixoy

OK, as for gay parents and kids, I can see valids points in both the pro & anti sides of this debate. Ultimately though, I can't see anything wrong with a same-sex couple adopting & raising a child. Personally, I'm a gay man not at a point in my life where I would want to have kids, but I'd certainly like to have the option there if I ever did want to adopt a child in the future.

Responsible people who are aware of just how much adopting a child will change their lives, that will provide a loving environment, and are ready to face the challenges involved in bringing up that child...so if there's a gay couple that want to take that step, and know of all the issues such as bullying etc., kudos to them.
Unconditional love from a parent can come from anyone willing to care & nurture a child.

I certainly don't mean to say that ALL gay couples, much like ALL str8 couples, should be allowed to rear children, but they should be given an equal chance to prove that they can bring children up just as well as a str8 couple.


Just a thought, we haven't heard from any gay person out there who has mentioned any personal experience with trying to adopt a kid, or even much of a desire to actually adopt at all.

Does that mean there's just no gay person on Boards that has tried/wants to adopt, or that there's no gay ppl trying to adopt?

Zombrex

Originally posted by Vader

Children are very impressionable and tend to copy the actions/morals/thinking of their parents. I dont mean to be cruel or insulting but homosexuality is an abnormality. It is something you are born with, and not anybodies fault and not a reason to be discriminated against but at the same time I dont feel it is something to be encouraged.

What???

There is nothing wrong with it but it is not good morals?

You are born gay, but you shouldn't impress gayness onto children?

It's not anyones fault but you shouldn't encourage it?

You shouldn't discriminate against it but you shouldn't let gays adopt?

Again ... what???

Originally posted by Flashman

Of course homosexuality is unnatural, it is contrary to our, and every other living thing, natural instinct to procreate.

Please!!. Procreation hasn't had anything to do with "sex" in the last 50000 years.

Blowjobs,
Anal Sex between a man and a (very suggestable) woman,
Sex with a condom,
hand jobs
titty f**ks
going down,
pulling out
vibrators
clit rings
cock rings
toe sucking
(and that is a slow day for me )

Sex is about pleasure. Homosexuality is only as strange as any any form of sex that does not directly relate in the birth of a child. It is "unnatural" to have sex of any kind that does not result in procreation. We are all unnatural!!!! We have been for thousands of years. So get off the whole high horse of "gays are not natural".

When was the last time any of you were natural?

Originally posted by Vader

Not that they'll be under pressure but that the influence would be sub conscious which is the way most impressions about normality are made

By the same token i seriously think we should stop vegaterians adopting

Not only will the poor children have the crap kicked out of them at school because their parents are pussies and make them eat tofo "beef" burgers at the annual sports day, but the children will most likely, subconsciously grow up to be hippies.
And I hate hippies!!!

BuffyBot

I didnt say genetic and the word abnormality doesnt suggest genetic. The word is a poor choice, but hey Ive said that already. I never said that the parents wouldnt be loving. Racism is passed on in families. Think about it.

Urrrm...yes you did. You said people are born gay. So therefore a child that isn't "born gay" can live with gay parents and not turn out gay.

Racism? Are you afraid the child might turn out "gay-ish"?

uberwolf

Most heterosexual couples shouldn't be allowed have children.

LegacyUser

ohmigod st8 ppl r sooo stupid. its d same agruement over n over again. shud put em on an island n let em kill each other for pits sake!!!

Havelock

I have one transvestite parent, one nerotic mess parent, they were both hippies and left wing liberals. They hated each other through out my late childhood and my teenage years, they finially seprated last year (Thank the gods).
After growing up in that environment, being aware of the tension between them, being picked on in school for my hippish habits and freedom of expression I turned out ok and now I am a loving, well developed, mostly hetrosexual and clean cut (Not an alocholic or drug user) sort of guy. They love me as much as they did when I was a child if not more so, I knew they were there for me, that I could talk to them and they loved me.

Thats what a child needs. It doesn't matter if you have two mothers or two fathers, even one parent as long as the child has a loving home and is cared for.

So I think is it fine if same sex couples have children, via adoption or what ever other means.

sparkite

gay parents may be good parents but the poor child will get an awful time at school etc.the world aint ready for it yet im afraid, the time will come someday i suppose

yellum

I thought the same about he kid getting stick in school cos of the parents but I'm not sure would that be something traumatic since kids make fun of everything and anything.

Even though there are lies, damned lies and statistics/surveys I'll just link to this article that says kids from same sex couple are just as well-adjusted as kids from heterosexual couples

Beruthiel

Originally posted by sparkite
gay parents may be good parents but the poor child will get an awful time at school etc.the world aint ready for it yet im afraid, the time will come someday i suppose

kids get picked on for all sorts of things, whither you are black, jewish, muslim, yellow, too tall, too fat, too blah, blah, at least same sex parents actually want the child, not all kids out there can say that. There are many heterosexual parents out there who have no clue how to bring up a child and many who don’t give a toss about their kid. Baring in mind that there are many orphans out there dying for a loving, caring environment why not give them to same sex couples who want them.
I see no problem at all

BEAT

Originally posted by Beruthiel
kids get picked on for all sorts of things, whither you are black, jewish, muslim, yellow, too tall, too fat, too blah, blah, at least same sex parents actually want the child, not all kids out there can say that. There are many heterosexual parents out there who have no clue how to bring up a child and many who don’t give a toss about their kid. Baring in mind that there are many orphans out there dying for a loving, caring environment why not give them to same sex couples who want them.
I see no problem at all

I totally agree with Beruth. I can also say that for a few years growing up I lived with my aunt who is gay and I was never picked on, quite the opposite actually, all my friends thought she was the coolest person and wanted to hang out with us. I feel that because I have been exposed to an alternative lifestyle I am better for it, I dont feel threatened by it or that it is unnatural. We talk about her Lifestyle and relationships all the time and we talk about mine, it's life people. It is about a person who wants to be in a relationship with another person that they love...just like heterosexual people. People are frightened by anything different that what they know or understand and that is where the gay bashing stems from etc...also where racism and things of the like are stemmed from...Ignorance.

Vader

My mother and father are two good ppl but I have a very diff relationship with both of them. My father is a strong discipline figure and my mother is over protective. They are in some ways the steriotypical parents of their generation. I would not like too have two parents like my mother, or two like my father but the combination of the two of them.

LegacyUser

Don't want to sound silly but i'd hazard a guess that kids pick up accents and some manerisms from family, if two really camp guys raised a boy he could be straight but end up camper than most gays.

ixoy

Originally posted by bananayoghurt
Don't want to sound silly but i'd hazard a guess that kids pick up accents and some manerisms from family, if two really camp guys raised a boy he could be straight but end up camper than most gays.

Oh dear. Oh dear oh dear. Here's my own version than:

Don't want to sound silly but i'd hazard a guess that kids pick up accents and some manrisms from family, if two really outwardly agressive parents raised a boy he could be straight but end up more psychotic than most straights.

And really, y'know, if those damned gays made him camp - and you know there's not much of an argument there anyway - then.... well then so what? If he's raised in a loving environment, been succesful, so what?!

Oh and P.S. - "camper than most gays" - how many gay men you know, besides Graham Norton?

boomdogman

For sheer applied ignorance and stupidity its hard to beat Vaders posting. Lets set a few things straight (so to speak).
The remote tolerance of gay people that Vader seems to be able to bring himself to manage is a dressed up form of Nazism. No he is not going to send us to the labour camps but he is going to "discourage" us by making life as difficult and miserable as he can for us without dirtying his hands with our blood.
Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. It is neither encourageable or discourageable, it merely exists. What confuses people like Vader( and I do not mean this as an insult) is the huge,unprecedented social revolution in Western world which has seen gay people come out of their ancient closet and become visible.

Children of openly gay parents (do you really believe all parents are really straight?) are no more or less likely to be gay(tho this is only mo thuarim fein as data on human sexuality is vague, anomolous,hard to find and notoriously unreliable) than children of straight parents.
But I can make that assertion at least based on personal expirience of being gay, Vader and those who share his opinions can only base them on an instinctive dislike of those they see as different. As the child of a very conservative family in a fairly remote rural area I had every "discouragement" to be gay. Hunderds of gay men learned camp (the harmless variety) apparently out of thin air, without a lisp or giggle in their butch, straight parents. I am not a fan of camp behaviour but to use it as one poster does, as an argument against gays adopting is plain ludicrous. Should all adoptive parents take a behaviour and mannerism test to satisfy this conformist urge?
Bullying is a separate issue and a very sore one. I was bullied severly at school and how dare any one suggest it is the fault of the victim or that a kid can stand up for himself? Teachers and parents a responsible for the behaviourof the bullies who are the fault. Tolerance of vicious behaviour that would have an adult arrested and jailed is central to the bullying issue .

Much of the posting on this topic has merely been thinly disguised homophobia.
The notion that it would be a terrible thing for a child to grow up gay is repulsive. All humans should be valued for what they are. I even value Vader tho I had to learn to do this!

Only the aceptance of gay peple as fully human with all the rights (and wrongs!) of the human family is is woth talking about. Vader stands on the edge of Nazism, intolerance and bigotry, but well inside the dark place where gay people are less than human.

ixoy

*applauds boomdogman's post*

yellum

Originally posted by ixoy
*applauds boomdogman's post*

I saw him first ! Actually if I hadn't proposed to my boyfriend I'd nearly give a ring to boomdogman.

Vader

For sheer applied ignorance and stupidity its hard to beat Vaders posting. Lets set a few things straight (so to speak). .

While this belligerent statement sets the tone for ground breaking revelations and logic, none follows. Only meaningless mantras and hypocritical flameing. There is no substance to any of it.

The remote tolerance of gay people that Vader seems to be able to bring himself to manage is a dressed up form of Nazism. No he is not going to send us to the labour camps but he is going to "discourage" us by making life as difficult and miserable as he can for us without dirtying his hands with our blood.

Making life miserable and difficult? I said quite clearly (if you read all my posts) that I believe that same-sex marriages should be legal. I also said that ppl in same-sex relationships should be entitled to all the benefits that ppl in same sex relationships get.

I see how this might seem the same thing (to a pig ignorant, whining, self righteous, attention seeker like you) as torturing millions in a calculated and sadistic way to satisfy greed, murdering ppl for no reason other than you can in a perverted self adulation. To destroy millions of homes, families and lives in a twisted pursuit of self glory. Maybe Nazi is some kind of buzz word that you like to throw around to claim the moral high ground or gain sympathy; but you listen up you little shít. Don’t talk about things you nothing about and dont use a word with such far reaching implications.

Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. It is neither encourageable or discourageable, it merely exists. What confuses people like Vader( and I do not mean this as an insult) is the huge,unprecedented social revolution in Western world which has seen gay people come out of their ancient closet and become visible.

Pedophilia is a sexual orientation . Pedophilia should be discouraged. Pedophilia exists, that cant be solved, it something the pedophile cant help. (encourageable and discourageable aren't words).

Vader isn’t the one that’s confused here. You want a lifestyle that isn’t natural yet you don’t understand why you cant have children.
A thread is created asking ppl who aren’t gay what do they think about gay adoption yet you cant understand why opinions contrary to your own are given (if the thread was only being addressed to gays then it was an idiotic thread. If you only wanted one answer don’t post a poll). And I hate to be cruel but you asked for it; if you don’t know what to do with your reproductive organs then your confused.

Children of openly gay parents (do you really believe all parents are really straight?) are no more or less likely to be gay(tho this is only mo thuarim fein as data on human sexuality is vague, anomolous,hard to find and notoriously unreliable) than children of straight parents

Do I believe ppl in long term, serious and consummated heterosexual relationships are in fact heterosexuals? Yes!!! You might be able to tell me their bi-sexual but not that they've no heterosexual tendencies.

Was that little bit of Irish supposed to be some sort of dig?

Anomolous isn’t a word. It doesn’t even resemble a word.

Your stating there is no evidence to work off, if you work of that statement then you are using applied ignorance. Ironic is one word. Moronic is another.

But I can make that assertion at least based on personal expirience of being gay, Vader and those who share his opinions can only base them on an instinctive dislike of those they see as different.

You don’t know anything about me you arrogant, presumptuous, son of a bítch.
Those they see as different, afraid of change, jealous of our freedom. All self reassuring bull shít from self deluding cowards afraid to face the truth. You are a self righteous fcker.

As the child of a very conservative family in a fairly remote rural area I had every "discouragement" to be gay. Hunderds of gay men learned camp (the harmless variety) apparently out of thin air, without a lisp or giggle in their butch, straight parents. I am not a fan of camp behaviour but to use it as one poster does, as an argument against gays adopting is plain ludicrous. Should all adoptive parents take a behaviour and mannerism test to satisfy this conformist urge?

Don’t associate me with bananayoghurt. I made no reference to "camp" in my posts. You mention my name then you stick to what I say you sly little bag of puss.

Bullying is a separate issue and a very sore one. I was bullied severly at school and how dare any one suggest it is the fault of the victim or that a kid can stand up for himself? Teachers and parents a responsible for the behaviourof the bullies who are the fault. Tolerance of vicious behaviour that would have an adult arrested and jailed is central to the bullying issue .

And how dare you suggest that you have a monopoly on suffering in this world! I didn’t say a kid can stand up for himself, ppl who are bullied usually are bullied because they cant stand up for themselves. You expect the same level of maturity from love deprived simpletons as adults. You are an ignorant, intolerant muppet.

Much of the posting on this topic has merely been thinly disguised homophobia.
The notion that it would be a terrible thing for a child to grow up gay is repulsive. All humans should be valued for what they are. I even value Vader tho I had to learn to do this!

You used the most disgusting, vile, derogatory and heartless term in the English language to insult me. You repeatedly referred to me as an ignorant muppet. Now you want to claim moral superiority. You are a lying hypocrite.

Only the aceptance of gay peple as fully human with all the rights (and wrongs!) of the human family is is woth talking about. Vader stands on the edge of Nazism, intolerance and bigotry, but well inside the dark place where gay people are less than human.

The cornerstone of my arguments have been the best interest of the child. You cant see that because you’re a selfish príck who values his own desire for a child above the chills welfare. You are not fit to be a parent.

What I said was quite clear but since you were too lazy to read what I wrote and not intelligent enough to disregard your bias and self interest I'll spell it out quite clearly for you.

* I have no problem with homosexuals or bisexuals. I don’t care if you believe that, you seem to be an arrogant presumptuous fck

* I agree with same-sex marriages. These relationships should be entitled to all the privileges accorded heterosexual marriages.

*Same-sex couples should be allowed to foster older children, 16 years or older

All of the above I have clearly said. Open your eyes you close minded dick.

The only thing I would not grant homosexuals is the right to adopt. Nobody has the right to have children (according to the UN declaration of human rights).

Children are impressionable. That is not open to debate. It is the basis of communication and education. It is clear in every walk of life.

Yes I believe homosexuality is not something to be encouraged. I see you having a problem with that statement, but think back to the pedophilia analogy. Do you think pedophilia should be encouraged? Then be tolerant of an opinion similar to your own.
Why shouldn’t homosexuality be encouraged? Well you tell me what would happen if everyone was gay. Who's children would you adopt?

I know the argument is there that many ppl who have children don’t deserve them. So what? I'm not going to be forced into choosing the lesser of two evils (a well know phrase, no biblical implication intented).

Nazi is not a term to be thrown around, least of all to ppl who you don’t know.

Gummy Panda

Originally posted by Vader

Yes I believe homosexuality is not something to be encouraged. I see you having a problem with that statement, but think back to the pedophilia analogy. Do you think pedophilia should be encouraged? Then be tolerant of an opinion similar to your own.
Why shouldn’t homosexuality be encouraged? Well you tell me what would happen if everyone was gay. Who's children would you adopt?

Why shouldn't homosexuality be encouraged? homosexuality is pretty much love in same sex relationships. Whether a man/woman loves a man/woman, its still love.

And isn't love the most important thing to teach children.

You don't seem to understand wat yellum and others are saying. They didn't chose to be gay, they were born that way. The same way i was born heterosexual.

I think homosexual couples should be given the full rights that heterosexual couples are given. Just cause both parents have the same reproduction organs doesn't make them any less of loving caring parents.

yellum

vader has been banned from this forum for his direct abuse to another poster. I don't mind his arguments but I do mind his abusiveness. If any other poster would like to get as abusive I'll ban them too. This includes abuse directed at vader.

sceptre

Originally posted by Vader
Anomolous isn’t a word. It doesn’t even resemble a word.

Resembles this on fairly closely if you change an o to an a.

seamus

Originally posted by Vader

Yes I believe homosexuality is not something to be encouraged. I see you having a problem with that statement, but think back to the pedophilia analogy. Do you think pedophilia should be encouraged? Then be tolerant of an opinion similar to your own.
Why shouldn’t homosexuality be encouraged? Well you tell me what would happen if everyone was gay. Who's children would you adopt?

Your comparison is flawed. Paedophilia in it's garden or vulgaris form involves the exploitation of one person for the enjoyment of another. The key point is that in Paedophilia, there's no duality. How can a 2 year old child understand the reason for pictures being taken of him naked? In most other forms of sexual orientation, both (or all, if that's your thing) parties are aware of what's happening, are consentual in it happening. Paedophilia is not like that.
Apart from that, you don't decide your sexual orientation. You either are or you aren't. Homosexuality/Bisexuality are genetic anomalies, but so is short-sightedness, diabetes, cancer and a thousand other things that aren't stigmatised, and certainly aren't discouraged.

For the record, I'm straight, and wholly convinced that hate/fear/dislike/uncomfortableness of homosexuality are a product of insecurity in one's own sexuality and/or ignorance.