DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

waiguoren

So UCB, All 80s and Ri-Ra are being broadcast in both 128Kbps MP2 and 64Kbps AAC? Has anyone noticed any improvement on the AAC versions? I'm not finding the quality of either particularly good as they keep cutting out. Anyone else have this trouble?

dowtchaboy

They would inspire more confidence if they could get Minister Rabbitte's name spelled correctly!

.Minister of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Mr Pat Rabbitt launched a new DAB+ trial in Dublin this week being operated by dB Digital Broadcasting.

The trial is broadcasting three new radio stations; All 80s, Raidió Rí-Rá and UCB with another three scheduled to come on-air early October. This will bring to over ten the number of commercial and RTÉ stations available exclusively to anyone with a DAB radio.

http://www.dbdb.ie/minister-launches-trial/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dbdigitalbroadcasting+%28DB+Digital+Broadcasting%29

I wonder when there will be a full roll out of DAB across the whole country.I would love to be able to avail of it here in Sligo.

dabfan

waiguoren wrote: »

So UCB, All 80s and Ri-Ra are being broadcast in both 128Kbps MP2 and 64Kbps AAC? Has anyone noticed any improvement on the AAC versions? I'm not finding the quality of either particularly good as they keep cutting out. Anyone else have this trouble?

What part of Dublin do you find this happening most?

waiguoren

I tried it again on another much more sensitive radio (Roberts MP16) and found the signal of the MP2 broadcasts of the test multiplex to be stable. However, on my portable DAB radio (Technika DAB211PT) I find stations on the 12A (test) multiplex break up more frequently than those on the 12C (RTE) multiplex in Central Dublin (near the Quays). I found no improvement of the DAB+ versions over the DAB versions. I thought DAB+ was supposed to provide a more robust signal due to the addition of Reed-Solomon error correction coding?

Dabfan - what are your experiences in listening to the stations on the test multiplex?

lasno

I have had excellent DAB reception since the service launched a couple of years ago. However for the last 2-3 days all I get is "no service". I have done a rescan but no luck. I live in Limerick.

dabfan

waiguoren wrote: »

I tried it again on another much more sensitive radio (Roberts MP16) and found the signal of the MP2 broadcasts of the test multiplex to be stable. However, on my portable DAB radio (Technika DAB211PT) I find stations on the 12A (test) multiplex break up more frequently than those on the 12C (RTE) multiplex in Central Dublin (near the Quays). I found no improvement of the DAB+ versions over the DAB versions. I thought DAB+ was supposed to provide a more robust signal due to the addition of Reed-Solomon error correction coding?

Dabfan - what are your experiences in listening to the stations on the test multiplex?

DAB+ is meant to be slightly more robust than DAB, but only slightly. The coverage maps for the DBDB trial show that the antennas are pointing to the west, this is to prevent overspill on 12A to the UK, this means that the West of Dublin will have much better coverage than the East, and possibly parts of the city centre and the far North.
The RTE DAB antennas are pointing directly towards the city, the licensed power for RTE is greater than the DBDB trial - and RTE have a SFN, so in parts of Dublin you could actually be receiving Claremont Cairn.

Trick of the Tail

All80s has now appeared on the South-East DAB mux.

The country's first independent DAB transmissions, by the way!

The mux run by Total Broadcast is also an SFN (Single Frequency Network) with two transmitters.

A.

Elmo

alinton wrote: »

The country's first independent DAB transmissions, by the way!

Should that not be

Ireland's first DAB only radio service? And wouldn't that go to Raidio RíRá?

Trick of the Tail

No, the DAB transmissions from Total Broadcast are now into their third year. Ri Ra is only a service carried on it, and first debuted on DAB last year.

A.

marclt

Yes, the different between multiplex operator and content provider.

Where are the two transmitters ALinton? Any news on a site for Wexford town?

Trick of the Tail

One is on White Mountain, the other Waterford.

White Mountain covers Wexford quite well.

A.

real rocker

I retuned my basic Sony DAB reciver a few times but the test transmissions are not being picked up. I am based around Leopardstown in Dublin. Last week I was finding a lot of break up on signal rendering it almost unlistenable.
The RTE service is fine.

marclt

alinton wrote: »

One is on White Mountain, the other Waterford.

White Mountain covers Wexford quite well.

A.

There a just one or two blackspots in around the town - fall in the shadow of Forth Mt.

bkehoe

The area shadowed by Forth Mountain is more to the South of Wexford town, out Johnstown castle, Mayglass areas. Other than a few glitches when heading in by Halfords from the N25 I've always been able to get the DAB trial reliably around the town on my in car DAB radio.

dabfan

How far is the South East trial site from Waterford city? Curious - because Waterford is in a bit of a 'bowl', does the DAB signal cover the city well?

DF

bkehoe

The main transmitter is 35KM from Waterford city but there is a lower power relay (the SE trial has been a SFN for 2 years now) in Carrickphierish which enhances the coverage in the city a lot. There's just one spot on the Quay near the clock tower and around the junction of Johns Street & Parnell Street that my car DAB radio will glitch for a split second when driving along.

reboot

alinton wrote: »

I beg to differ. Those Pure radios I mentioned are nice quality. The Avanti particularly has good bass response.

There are very few outstanding quality table radios around at all these days, but those are above average in quality.

Not as nice as my Bush DAC90 or a few other old valve radios I have, but that's the way it is.

I also take exception to your opinion on DAB quality. I'm listening to Nova here right now - its a 160k stream and sounds very nice.

Obviously its not as good as a linear stream would be, but that's not possible on this medium. I like FM quality, but it's not as perfect as you say. Max 15kHz high frequency response, and pre-emphasised. I like the non-pre-emphasised sound of a good DAB stream.

I further disagree with your proclamations regarding audio processing. There are many reasons why its preferable to none, but one of the most obvious is that even if a station had none, the source material on modern recordings is often compressed and multiband limited - therefore with a low peak to average ratio and sounding 'loud'. In order for a station to have some source to source consistency, audio processing is essential.

A man watching a PPM and adjusting the fader wouldn't have the same effect.

I clearly recall when RTE radio had no audio processing. The inconsistent levels made it very difficult to listen to.

Please don't get me wrong - I'm a huge proponent of good audio quality in broadcasting. I expend a lot of energy in my professional life trying to make stations sound as nice as possible, and attempting to educate operators about the evils of unnecessary use of non-linear audio, clipping and limiting during production, and excessively driving their broadcast processor to garner what they perceive as valuable 'loudness'.

However you also have to be a realist. Modern broadcast audio processors are very clever things, designed to produce good quality sound without introducing untoward levels of fatiguing artifacts. Its down to the skill of the engineer who sets it up whether is sounds good or not - ultimately sounding nice, clean, undistorted and consistent will gain listenership, and the opposite will have the opposite effect.

A.

Very interesting discussion,particularly people hearing above 15khz,something I raised over a year ago.
Anyway I digress.
I called into the Halfords store in Downpatrick Co.Down and spotted Dab portables at half price.
Philips model AE5010/05,£24.99,the half price asked.
Not interested at that price,for a plastice mains portable,I went on the hukd.com website.Bought the same radio for £14 and went back to the same store and picked it up.
Have removed the naff speaker and battery compartment,(Mains power supply 5v,1 amp).Also reduced the case by half.
I now use it in the car,with a cigar plug FM Tx,and the Bose car radio pickes it up fine and doesnt sound too bad ,(maybe not 15khz)
Maybe not THX,but hey for £14,not bad and such fun.

funnyname

Will the Pure Evoke 3 be compatible when the full service is rolled out across the country or will I have to find a home for it back in the UK?

dubmick

any word on Newstalk or TodayFM going back on DAB? Only channels I used to listen to on it.

The Cush

dubmick wrote: »

any word on Newstalk or TodayFM going back on DAB? Only channels I used to listen to on it.

It appears they're not interested.

watty

You'd get better coverage in car and x25 battery life on portable on FM.

There is Zero value to DAB as currently envisaged by RTE. Their new DAB /DTT only channels are a waste of money. Better to ditch adverts on all RTE Radio, have all the phone ins and music on RTE1 on 2FM instead. Learn to do decent PSB radio rather than promoting niche stations that are poorer than your phone's MP3 playlist or Internet niche stations.

They need 3x as many multiplexes and twice the bitrate and about x6 as many transmitters for DAB to be any use. Also chip sets for radios with 1/10th current power consumption.

DAB just doesn't make sense on so many levels as done in UK and especially Ireland.

You know if DAB+ (AAC) is used it will be simply to fit x2 more stations in per multiplex, not for any more quality.

Look what more stations has done for Satellite. 800 of them and only about 20 any use. Even those 20 are poorer and no more real content than four stations in UK in December 1982.

watty

The Cush wrote: »

It appears they're not interested.

Extra transmission cost for zero extra revenue

Charles Slane

Digital Broadcasting will add two new channels by the end of November.

"As we continue to work on aspects of content licence issues that have arisen in the past months we are delighted to announce today that two definite new services will broadcast on the trial before the end of November"

http://www.dbdb.ie/q3-2012-report/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dbdigitalbroadcasting+%28DB+Digital+Broadcasting%29

reboot

The Cush wrote: »

It appears they're not interested.

Now that Digital Tele is at last with us,and RTE Gold and BBC digital radio are blasting in, I have removed all Dab technology from the place.
No more need for band 3 aerial ,amp and power supply.I believe it has been previously discussed that better quality is received also?
On the subject of battery life and Dab receivers,I bought a Philips radio from Halfords,5V/5Watts!Battery compartment 4 AA batts.
I tried in vain to contact the "Today" programme on BBC R4,about the "Children in Need"Dab they are asking folk to buy (For the good cause)For a couple of hundred pounds I think you might expect to carry it into the garden in the summer.It is not portable,confirmed by the manufactures,who promptly replied to my query.The Today website replied with the usual automated response ,from Hal I guess.
The Halford radio works fine in the car for £14,with an fm Tx and cigar socket supply.All we need now is 4G and 4K.

Mearings

Radio sound quality for most stations is better on internet radio than on dab. RTE has changed to mp3 on internet radio, whereas the original speed for Lyric fm was 192kbps, this has now been reduced to 96kbps. This is a very inferior sound for a classical music station.
I queried the change with rtenltech@rte.ie, so far (18 days on) my email has been ignored.

watty

The Digital Radio seems to use same bitrates on DTT. It's terrible.

watty

5V/5Watts!Battery compartment 4 AA batts.

That will be 2 to 3 hours!

Portable Radio from 1938 to 1988... 150 hours to 400Hrs. Worst was about 20 to 30 hours for a near pocket size VALVE radio in 1940s!

Mr. Rabbit

With ASO now complerte in the ROI, there's no reason why Digital One can't broadcast in NI.

Richard

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

With ASO now complerte in the ROI, there's no reason why Digital One can't broadcast in NI.

They do plan to.

http://www.ukdigitalradio.com/coverage/postcodesearch/nireland.asp