DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

Genghis

Hey there moremusic. Was simply giving an update on availability of DAB in one of the counties RTE said they'd cover. Am not here to be patronised.

More Music

Sorry dude, wasn't aimed at you. Michael keeps asking about receiving DAB in Tipperary both here and over in Radiowaves. It's already been explained.

Yes, I know they're radio forums.

Elmo

Other RTÉ Radio stations gone.

galtee boy

In the hype going on over the fact that it looks like BBC 1& 2 will be available FTA on DTT in ROI, it seems to be overlooked that, it also said in that agreement signed by the two Governments, that they would look at putting each other's state radio stations on DAB, either side of the border.
Could we yet see BBC Radio 1-5 on Dab in ROI ? Five Live could be a problem over sports rights, but what would stop 1-4 becoming available, especially if the two Governments want it ?

craoltoir

Could it be restricted to regional services i.e. Radio Ulster?

jmcbride

galtee boy wrote: »

Could we yet see BBC Radio 1-5 on Dab in ROI ? Five Live could be a problem over sports rights, but what would stop 1-4 becoming available, especially if the two Governments want it ?

Please let this happen, especially in the case of Five Live. Rights could be a problem, but hopefully it won't be any more so than for tv.

Elmo

The independents all of a sudden rush to be on DAB

Antenna

galtee boy wrote: »

Could we yet see BBC Radio 1-5 on Dab in ROI ?

Again, how would the costs of carriage of BBC on ROI DAB be paid for ?

Elmo

Antenna wrote: »

Again, how would the costs of carriage of BBC on ROI DAB be paid for ?

How would the costs of carriage of RTÉ on NI DAB be paid for?

Trade off?

Oh wait what about the IBI?

I'm in the market for a new mini system. Some of them now have DAB tuners. I am in Limerick City and believe I can get the RTE digital channels. Is it worth paying the extra for DAB? I read a few years ago that it was rubbish. Would I get all the channels with an indoors antenna? Any feedback most appreciated thank you

pa990

i dunno about limerick.. But coverage in cork from spur hill is poor.
I have a DAB radio at home, but no reception, signal is too low.
Was gonna get a dab for the car, but i saw a coverage map online somewhere, it didn't look inspiring

craoltoir

You should be able to receive all available channels, RTÉ channels only at present, with an indoor aerial if you are in an area covered by DAB broadcasts. Reception is OK in a static position, but not as good as FM, certainly for mobile reception.

Due to low bit-rates, quality is not as good as FM with all channels.

If you are into talk radio, RTÉ Choice provides talk programmes from international broadcasters as well as programmes from RTÉ radio archives. Apart from the national FM channels (RTÉ) you also get a few music stations such as Gold, playing oldies and Pulse for younger listeners, and Junior for even younger listeners.

steveq

I don't know about reception in your area. In Dublin it is good -- clearer than FM.

The DAB only channels (Gold, Choice, etc.) can be good.

Most DAB radios have a facility to playback the previous 10 minutes which is very useful if you miss something or want to instantly listen to something again.

I would say that it is worth paying a bit extra for (assuming that you can get reception).

craoltoir

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1251367/As-face-forced-digital-hopeless--battle-save-FM-starts-here.html

This article from the British Daily Mail may be of interest:

By Jonathan Margolis

Take a wistful look at the radios in your home while you still can - the average household has two or three scattered around, plus one in the car. If any of your radio sets are of the standard AM/FM variety, rather than the new digital DAB type, they could soon be fit only for a museum or the rubbish dump.

Eighty per cent of the radios used by 46 million listeners in Britain are of the traditional design. And five years from now, if this Government gets its way, 150 million or more AM/FM radios - from 70-year-old sets to models still in the shops - will be useless.

The great AM/FM radio switch-off of 2015, which is being promoted by the Government and enthusiastically supported by the electronics industry, broadcasters and electrical retailers, will cost almost every household in the country hundreds of pounds to buy brand new radios.

While serviceable old-style radios can be bought from less than £20, few decent DAB sets are less than £50. And a new DAB set for the average car, which will also need a new aerial, is unlikely to cost less than £300.

DAB radios, furthermore, use a third more electricity than normal radios - which is why they drain batteries quickly and need to be either constantly recharged or plugged in to the mains to work.

Most people are still unaware of the switch-off and only 20 per cent of radio output is currently listened to on digital sets. Unsurprisingly then, this is likely to cause far more uproar than the move to digital TV which has taken place over the past ten years.

No wonder that more than 50 commercial stations recently called for the Government to delay the switchover date, saying that consumers weren't ready.

Under current plans, after 2015 many older people and low-income households will find themselves excluded from radio listening, even though the Government has announced a scrappage scheme similar to that for cars. Under the plan, 150 million of our old radios will be shipped to the Third World, where they will still work.

The switch-off will be as much of a shock to motorists, who will find themselves cut off overnight from traffic alerts, as well as entertainment, as 30 million car radios fall silent.

The move to digital-or-else - which is forcing tens of millions of us to buy new, more power-hungry radios mostly imported from China, while throwing out perfectly good equipment - isn't only bizarre at a time when we are supposed to be thinking about the environment. It offers remarkably few benefits.

The transition to digital TV, by contrast, has improved television viewing - if not the actual programmes - beyond measure.

Digital TV has enabled every home to have access to hundreds of channels, along with stunning innovations such as high-definition TV and even 3D, which Sky trialled for the first time recently, broadcasting the Arsenal v Manchester United game from the Emirates Stadium in London to a handful of pubs around the country.

Digital radio, however, is arguably a step forward and two back. It enables a handful of radio stations which, on old-style radios can only be received in poor quality on AM frequencies, to be heard clearly.

DAB also allows more radio stations to share the airwaves - even though the vast majority of these are bound to be dreary 'community' and minority interest broadcasts which aren't of any interest to most of us.

But sound experts regard DAB as providing inferior audio quality to old-school FM. DAB is also notoriously prone to fading in and out, can't be picked up at all in 10 per cent of the country, especially rural parts, or on many roads.

The official reasons for the digital move are that it will offer 'more station choice, better sound quality and greater functionality for radio listeners'.

But while it's pleasant to hear, say, Five Live in clear tones, and marginally useful to see on your radio's little screen which programme you are listening to, it's hard to escape the conclusion that the move is essentially a giant job creation scheme.

It's also, naturally, a multi-billion-pound gift to radio makers and shops, which always try to live by the maxim, 'always be obsolescing' - in other words, make sure everything goes out of date as quickly as possible.

The BBC, meanwhile, obviously loves it because it gives it scope to employ increasing numbers of people on obscure minority stations and, doubtless, yet another army of vacuous pen-pushers with silly job titles to oversee the changeover.

But before you load up the car and head for your local rubbish dump, bear in mind that the official death sentence for our radios could be commuted long past 2015 - especially if the public either refuses to buy into the largely unnecessary new technology, or actively rebels against it. For the switch-off is another one of the Government's much-vaunted 'aspirations'.

Secretly, our rulers know the switch-off is unrealistic. That's why they've built in an escape clause: the switch-off date has to be confirmed two years before it happens and can only be done when 50 per cent of radio listening is done on digital services. The latest figure is 21 per cent and there's little sign of it rising now.

So if you're serious about defeating digital, you could make your feelings count by either refusing to buy a DAB set, or making a point of opting for one of the remaining AM/FM only sets.

Most early adopters, to use the industry jargon, people who like to have the latest technology, have probably by now bought their DAB radios. There are about 10 million in use, which means that 20 years into the digital switch - the BBC began digital radio in 1990 - only 17 million adults live in a home where there's a digital set.

Changing broadcasting systems is always a slow business. Radio 4 Long Wave, which is a truly appalling service even if it has its own retro charm of sounding like you're tuning into Lord Haw Haw in 1943, was going to be dumped in 1992. There was an outcry, a march on Broadcasting House - and Radio 4 is still just about there on long wave 18 years on.

The car radio above all will ensure that there's no pressing need for that sad journey to the dump on New Year's Day 2016. The Government has promised to 'work with' (ie ask) car manufacturers to fit all new cars with a DAB radio by the end of 2013. Fords already have DAB as an option, but it's not one many people are choosing.

Another complication in the switch-off which could ensure the 50 per cent figure is never reached is that you don't actually need a digital radio to listen to digital radio.

Whenever DAB is being discussed, you'll notice that techies carefully refer to 'digital services'. That's because some 37 per cent of digital listening isn't on a DAB set at all.

Most people get digital radio on the internet, where ever-faster broadband speeds make the quality ever better, or on their satellite, cable, or Freeview TV.

An increasing number of people also listen to radio on their phones on the internet, via 3G networks. Besides, to switch off MW and FM services in a few short years would reduce car audiences drastically - something broadcasters won't allow to happen.

It's also questionable whether the Government we elect in this year's General Election, of whatever stripe, will give the go-ahead to dumping 150 million radios in 2015 - just at the time when it would be seeking re-election.

So come on then, you radio rebels. The fight to save FM starts here.

L1011

I've just noticed that RTE are sending "DAB Ireland Mux2" as their multiplex ID at the moment. Thats what the commercial trial mux had.

Wonder if their encoding gear's fallen over and they're using the second set?

L1011

A DAB car radio costs nowhere NEAR 300 quid, neither does a DAB unit that matches the performance of a 20 quid FM one cost 50 quid - they cost about 30.

I've DAB in my car - cost me 80 sterling.

Also the BBC didn't begin digital radio in 1990, it was late 1995.

The article is littered with so many inaccuracies it could only be from the Mail.

zilog_jones

Maybe they are testing redundancy?

Sam Russell

craoltoir wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1251367/As-face-forced-digital-hopeless--battle-save-FM-starts-here.html

This article from the British Daily Mail may be of interest:

Says it all. To quote the old joke, "The only thing I would believe in that paper would be a good portion of chips, and even then only with a good pinch of salt."

10000maniacs

By the way that the article was written, you would swear that Old Blighty was under attack from Lord Haw Haw flying a Henkel heavy bomber.
Daily Mail readers are reactionary hypocrites who fail to spot their own irony, and the article was aimed at them.
The world is not going to come to an end because of DAB.:)

Bodan

Dabs coverage is mainly limited to Dublin, Dundalk,Cork and Limerick. Here is the map.

More Music

From the article:

"The switch-off will be as much of a shock to motorists, who will find themselves cut off overnight from traffic alerts, as well as entertainment, as 30 million car radios fall silent."

Yeah, just like that. No prior warning. Forget the fact ASO will have been in the pipeline for nearly 10 years.

Sam Russell

There are no plans at EU level to switch off FM radio as far as I know. The only plans are for ASO of TV in the VHF and UHF bands. The intention is to release spectrum for other uses, and to provide more TV channels. FM is safe.

It is the Dail Heil just wishing for a story. If it is true, that is a bonus, if not, so what.

felimmcmahon

Daily Mail journalists can't even piss straight. :rolleyes: Here is a more tempered piece from the Guardian

Sam Russell

felimmcmahon wrote: »

Daily Mail journalists can't even piss straight. :rolleyes: Here is a more tempered piece from the Guardian

Looks like the same story. It is a government report, totaly silly. There are no plans at EU level for this. No plans to change the 88-108 FM band. No plans to render 90% of all radios obsolete. It is just silly.

It would take a decade or more to do this. DAB is not even Europe wide, so do German and French car manufactures develop radios solely for GB. Silly.

MW could be under attack, but not FM.

L1011

There is DAB in Germany... has been for a very long time. France is getting DMB and DMB radios are meant to be DAB1 and DAB+ compatible.

Sam Russell

Not everyone agrees. This is all nonsense - there will be no analogue switch off! This is all aspiration, driven by some lobby group. Arquiva are probably part of it, with there license auctions. DAB is superceded by DAB+ and other digital formats. No-one is listening - to DAB, nor to the various reports.

There are 150 million FM radios in Britain, and 10 million DAB radios, and almost no car radio sets able to get DAB. I would not like to be the politician that pulled the plug on FM radio.

Read this.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/19/carter_radio_dumb_media/

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

Looks like the same story. It is a government report, totaly silly. There are no plans at EU level for this. No plans to change the 88-108 FM band. No plans to render 90% of all radios obsolete. It is just silly.

It would take a decade or more to do this. DAB is not even Europe wide, so do German and French car manufactures develop radios solely for GB. Silly.

MW could be under attack, but not FM.

Planning for the digitalisation of radio broadcasting in Band II has been underway since mid 2008 by the ECO with DRM+, HD-Radio, FMeXtra and T-DAB under consideration, a report is due in May.

Car manufacturers meeting with European broadcasters agreed last Jun following an international workshop, to closer cooperation in the future development of digital radio as standard in cars.

MYOB wrote: »

There is DAB in Germany... has been for a very long time. France is getting DMB and DMB radios are meant to be DAB1 and DAB+ compatible.

The requirement is World DMB Forum - Digital Radio Receiver Profiles which requires all radios to be FM-RDS, MW (AM), DAB, DAB+ and DMB.

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

The requirement is World DMB Forum - Digital Radio Receiver Profiles which requires all radios to be FM-RDS, MW (AM), DAB, DAB+ and DMB.

There is a difference between planning for digital radio and planning to switch off FM radio. The document clearly states that all radios must have FM RDS, if they were planning to switch it off this requirement would be omitted. Typical of jounalists, they take a 400 page report and take a small aspiration out from page 289 and turn it in to a headline spelling doom for the world as we know it, ignoring the other 399 pages of sensible arguement.

If there is going to be a switch off for FM radio, it will not be in the next decade, and probably not in the one after that. MW might be another story. The UK might start moving services around to force the sale of expensive DAB radios, but FM will continue. Sweden are trying to relaunch DAB, but not with the threat os analogue switch off. It has been a market failure there.

Ofcom(UK) would like much more control of radio, and would like to sell more spectrum for lots of money. Different story.

Antenna

The Cush wrote: »

The requirement is World DMB Forum - Digital Radio Receiver Profiles which requires all radios to be FM-RDS, MW (AM), DAB, DAB+ and DMB.

regarding analogue radio, it only 'recommends' rather than 'requires' as follows:

Analogue services FM-RDS11 and MW (AM) decoding is recommended for all products.

Note that it mentions MW, but not LW in the recommendation, - even though (here) RTE discontinued MW in favour of LW, and LW would be more important to have than MW in France.

marclt

Well, this might resolve all of the concerns regarding switching between FM/AM and DAB... (oh, and DAB+ too).

And all it takes is a little chip.... Switchover might be closer than we thought (technically)...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/mar/03/uk-dab-fm-menu-system