DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

glimmerman123

Genghis wrote: »

Nothing in Laois last night circa 8pm.

Thanks for the info Genghis.

dubmick

any sign of the non-RTE stations coming back on the DAB format? Newstalk, Today Fm etc.

Until then the radio will stay in the cupboard

Elmo

dubmick wrote: »

any sign of the non-RTE stations coming back on the DAB format? Newstalk, Today Fm etc.

Until then the radio will stay in the cupboard

Any chance of them paying to be on the service? Most DAB radios have FM tuners.

glimmerman123

dubmick wrote: »

any sign of the non-RTE stations coming back on the DAB format? Newstalk, Today Fm etc.

Until then the radio will stay in the cupboard

None of the independents stations have any plans to join RTEs dab platform for the foreseeable future because it is not financially viable for them to do so. I think one of the main problems for the independents is they will have to pay to operate two licenses one for fm and one for dab. So unless the BAI reduce the cost of operating both licenses i can"t see them moving to dab.

Elmo

glimmerman123 wrote: »

None of the independents stations have any plans to join RTEs dab platform for the foreseeable future because it is not financially viable for them to do so. I think one of the main problems for the independents is they will have to pay to operate two licenses one for fm and one for dab. So unless the BAI reduce the cost of operating both licenses i can"t see them moving to dab.

That is just stupid. Sure they can just hit the on switch - I know there is more to it than that - this is just messy they are national broadcasters and well established ones. If it isn't costing them money outside a licence let them go on DAB, they are still regulated by the same laws.

L1011

Once the BAI have any idea how to do DAB fairly, expect the independents to come back. The problem is that we only have space for 1 more Band III mux until we turn off analogue TV - or do some reorganisation and/or begging. 1 mux would carry all the national/multi-city and regional independents (Newstalk, Today, i105107, i102104, Beat, SpinSW and 4FM) with some space left; but theres no way for ILRs to get on Band III as it stands.

It was suggested that once they've got a way for independents to go up that they can get a 5 year licence extension with no competition for it as a bonus for going on DAB. Seeing as every regional ILR except Live95 is expiring in 2014 there'd be a fair few willing to take 5 years for the price of a 1/8th share of a DAB mux...

Elmo

MYOB wrote: »

Once the BAI have any idea how to do DAB fairly, expect the independents to come back. The problem is that we only have space for 1 more Band III mux until we turn off analogue TV - or do some reorganisation and/or begging. 1 mux would carry all the national/multi-city and regional independents (Newstalk, Today, i105107, i102104, Beat, SpinSW and 4FM) with some space left; but theres no way for ILRs to get on Band III as it stands.

IMO just put the Multicity/Regional/National services on the current DAB service if they fit. certainly Newstalk and Today FM should be there and they are big enough to pay for it.

L1011

Elmo wrote: »

IMO just put the Multicity/Regional/National services on the current DAB service if they fit. certainly Newstalk and Today FM should be there and they are big enough to pay for it.

They don't fit! There isn't a single spare kilobit


Reception is a mush this morning in Kildare which would suggest to me that Kippure is on but not synchronised.

Elmo

MYOB wrote: »

They don't fit! There isn't a single spare kilobit


Reception is a mush this morning in Kildare which would suggest to me that Kippure is on but not synchronised.

I am just talking about the Today FM and Newstalk with perhaps 4fm. Remove 3 of the RTÉ channels let them be on DTT, Cable and online.

Sam Russell

I would think RTE would be delighted to vacate a couple of slots on the MUX for the right amount of funding.

If BAB is to be successful it needs the commercial stations.

thewools

I bought a radio recently not knowing exactly about DAB etc... so now i have a nice radio that can tune in what - 4 proper stations???

Should I leave it back???

Elmo

thewools wrote: »

I bought a radio recently not knowing exactly about DAB etc... so now i have a nice radio that can tune in what - 4 proper stations???

Should I leave it back???

Generally they have FM/AM tuners. There is a nice one in Dunnes for €40 from Philips.

thewools

Elmo wrote: »

Generally they have FM/AM tuners. There is a nice one in Dunnes for €40 from Philips.

This one doesnt im afraid, no FM tuner :mad: - i wanted a "water-proof" radio and went with a Oasis one. Bad idea I think!!

L1011

Elmo wrote: »

I am just talking about the Today FM and Newstalk with perhaps 4fm. Remove 3 of the RTÉ channels let them be on DTT, Cable and online.

Its RTEs mux, why should they remove any of their channels?

Its RTEs mux. They have no spare space. End of. Suggesting the commercials go on there is as stupid as suggesting that the BBC stations will ever become freely available on DAB here - its not going to happen, despite some people on here obsessing over it!

Antenna

MYOB wrote: »

but theres no way for ILRs to get on Band III as it stands.

The reality is that there is technically space to put most, if not all, ILRs on DAB if they want, alongside the remaining TV use of Band III. The fact that almost all TV relays that were originally VHF moved to UHF some years ago results in space being available for DAB if desired. Only 5 main transmitters and one relay use Band III for TV now.
For example VHF TV Channel D (174-182MHz) is only used for TV at Mullaghanish and a Low power transposer in Monaghan, nowhere else. There would be very unlikely be any problem using at least part of that 8MHz block (Ch D) for DAB in much of the country (such as Galway, Mayo, Kilkenny, Wexford Carlow Wicklow Dublin etc etc.)
(All DAB radios can cover down to 174 MHz so its not a problem for the receivers)
In addition the UK national MUX DAB frequencies could be used for ILR in Ireland in counties well removed from the UK
However its all academic as ILRs are dis-interested in DAB at the moment?

Elmo

MYOB wrote: »

Its RTEs mux, why should they remove any of their channels?

Today FM and Newstalk use RTÉ network. And we wouldn't want a defacto monopoly to occur.

L1011

Elmo wrote: »

Today FM and Newstalk use RTÉ network. And we wouldn't want a defacto monopoly to occur.

They use their bandwidth licences on RTEs network! The existing DAB mux is *RTEs licence*. It is nobody else's.

Antenna wrote: »

The reality is that there is technically space to put most, if not all, ILRs on DAB if they want, alongside the remaining TV use of Band III. The fact that almost all TV relays that were originally VHF moved to UHF some years ago results in space being available for DAB if desired. Only 5 main transmitters and one relay use Band III for TV now.
For example VHF TV Channel D (174-182MHz) is only used for TV at Mullaghanish and a Low power transposer in Monaghan, nowhere else. There would be very unlikely be any problem using at least part of that 8MHz block (Ch D) for DAB in much of the country (such as Galway, Mayo, Kilkenny, Wexford Carlow Wicklow Dublin etc etc.)
(All DAB radios can cover down to 174 MHz so its not a problem for the receivers)
In addition the UK national MUX DAB frequencies could be used for ILR in Ireland in counties well removed from the UK
However its all academic as ILRs are dis-interested in DAB at the moment?

The issue is international clearance. Theres I think 8 DAB channels that are completely clear in Ireland and a fair few more that are clear in the West - but we only have clearance for 12A and 12C. The intention was that we'd use L-Band for ILR but that, clearly, isn't workable.

Elmo

MYOB wrote: »

They use their bandwidth licences on RTEs network! The existing DAB mux is *RTEs licence*. It is nobody else's.

Content licence or Service licence?

L1011

Elmo wrote: »

Content licence or Service licence?

Service licence. They can do what they want with it.

Just give it over, OK - RTE are not going to carry any of the independents.

Elmo

MYOB wrote: »

Service licence. They can do what they want with it.

Just give it over, OK - RTE are not going to carry any of the independents.

So they won't need to put TV3 on the DTT service. What happens when Indos go looking for a space on RTÉ's service? What then RTÉ have their own channels on that service.

This is a discussion boards and BTW it isn't like RTÉ don't want them on their service.

The Cush

MYOB wrote: »

The issue is international clearance. Theres I think 8 DAB channels that are completely clear in Ireland and a fair few more that are clear in the West - but we only have clearance for 12A and 12C. The intention was that we'd use L-Band for ILR but that, clearly, isn't workable.

This list of VHF Band III frequencies might be of interest

Analogue TV VHF Channels (8 MHz) used in Ireland
D (174 - 182) - MULLAGHANISH, MONAGHAN
E (182 - 190) - KIPPURE, MAGHERA
F (190 - 198) - MT LEINSTER, MONAGHAN
G (198 - 206) - MULLAGHANISH, TRUSKMORE
H (206 - 212) - KIPPURE, MAGHERA
I (214 - 222) - TRUSKMORE, MT LEINSTER
J (222 - 230) - not used

DAB Channels (1.75 MHz) allocated to Ireland at RRC-06
National
12C (227.360) - IRL DAB NAT 1 (on-air)
12A (223.936) - IRL DAB NAT 2
10A (209.936) - IRL DAB NAT 3

Regional
7C (192.352) - IRL DAB REG DONEGAL, IRL DAB REG DUB AREA 2
10B (211.648) - IRL DAB REG NORTH EAST
10D (215.072) - IRL DAB REG MIDLANDS
11A (216.928) - IRL DAB REG CORK
11B (218.640) - IRL DAB REG NORTH WEST, IRL DAB REG DUB AREA 1
11C (220.352) - IRL DAB REG SOUTH EAST
12B (225.648) - IRL DAB REG SOUTH WEST

Local
5B (176.640) - IRL DAB L LOUTH-MEATH
5C (178.352) - IRL DAB L DUBLIN CITY 2, IRL DAB L OY-WH
5D (180.064) - IRL DAB L DUBLIN CNTY 2

6A (181.936) - IRL DAB L DUBLIN CNTY 1
6B (183.648) - IRL DAB L WICKLOW
6C (185.360) - IRL DAB L CAVAN MONAGHAN, IRL DAB L CORK CITY 1
6D (187.072) - IRL DAB L CORK CITY 2, IRL DAB L DONEGAL, IRL DAB L KILDARE

7A (188.928) - IRL DAB L CORK CNTY 1, IRL DAB L CORK CNTY 1
7C (192.352) - IRL DAB L WATERFORD
7D (194.064) - IRL DAB L DUBLIN CITY 1, IRL DAB L KERRY

8A (195.936) - IRL DAB L LIMERICK, IRL DAB L SO-DL-LM
8C (199.360) - IRL DAB L RN-LD-SLM
8D (201.072) - IRL DAB L MAYO

9A (202.928) - IRL DAB L LS-OY-WH, IRL DAB L WEXFORD,
9B (204.640) - IRL DAB L GALWAY
9C (206.352) - IRL DAB L CW-KK

10C (213.360) - IRL DAB L CORK CNTY 2

11D (222.064) - IRL DAB L CLARE

12D (229.072) - IRL DAB L TIPPERARY

DVB-T VHF Channels (7 MHz) allocated to Ireland at RRC-06
5 (174 - 181) - IRL DTT NTH WEST, IRL DTT STH EAST
6 (181 - 188) - IRL DTT WEST
7 (188 - 195) - IRL DTT MIDLANDS
8 (195 - 202) - IRL DTT EAST
9 (202 - 209) - IRL DTT NTH EAST, IRL DTT STH WEST

N. Ireland DAB Channels (1.75 MHz) allocated at RRC-06
National
12B (225.648) - UK BBC (on-air)
11A (216.928) - NORTHERN IRELAND II

Regional
12D (229.072) - NORTHERN IRELAND I (on-air)

Local
10C (213.360) - BELFAST
11C (220.352) - LONDONDERRY
11D (222.064) - FERMANAGH & TYRONE

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

So they won't need to put TV3 on the DTT service. What happens when Indos go looking for a space on RTÉ's service? What then RTÉ have their own channels on that service.

This is a discussion boards and BTW it isn't like RTÉ don't want them on their service.

The Broadcasting Act requires RTÉ to carry TV3 on the PSB Mux if required. The Act also allows RTÉ to carry on its DAB multiplexes other PSB-like services as directed by the Minister and to receive payment for carrying these services. Non PSB-like services can also be carried on spare capacity in its multiplexes with the prior approval of the Minister.

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

The Act also allows RTÉ to carry on its DAB multiplexes other PSB-like services as directed by the Minister and to receive payment for carrying these services. Non PSB-like services can also be carried on spare capacity in its multiplexes with the prior approval of the Minister.

The Minister has nothing to do with instructing RTÉ to do any such thing why do you think he set up the BAI :rolleyes:

The Broadcasting Act requires RTÉ to carry TV3 on the PSB Mux if required

Yeap DTT isn't a full service so TV3 isn't currently required

mickeyboymel

Picking Up Kippure here in Mullingar this morning, DAB loud and clear.

glimmerman123

I take it all nine counties are switched on now. Enjoy guys guess i will have to wait a bit longer before Tipperary is switched on.

L1011

Dreadful synchronisation issues for me with an external antenna, I'm in an area that'd get Three Rock, Kippure and Clermont with an antenna that high gain. Can't get a decodeable signal on it at all now, all fine on standard whips!

L1011

...back up to showing 95-100 on the external antenna now, and anywhere from 63-98 on a whip.

Random.

Genghis

Can't get anything in Laois. Checked again last night. Is the nine county plan turned on yet?

L1011

Its one additional transmitter, its not a "nine county plan". And its on.

More Music

As was already pointed out to him. It's a bit like the other guy who keeps asking about 2fm changes.

Are we there yet..............Are we there yet.