Jamal Khashoggi disappearance

RobertKK · 22-10-2018 2:24pm

glasso wrote: »

the Turks might up the ante and incriminate Mister Bone Saw directly.
They apparently offered the Saudis a way out initially but they ignored the Turkish approach.
Then the Turks started leaking details.

now it has got to the stage where Bone Saw will be not too happy with the Turks.

It's not in their (Turkish) interest to have a psycho like him in power for 50 years (he's only 32) who won't be best disposed towards Turkey.

Erdogan to reveal more tomorrow he has stated.

Will he go all in?!

Erdogan can use the Saudi kamikazi actions to get back into the good books of the west.

I hate what the Saudis did, and they have been getting away with everything up till now, we wait and see if this ends, unlikely though but people in general are fed up with politicians letting the Saudis off everything including war crimes.

Assetbacked · 22-10-2018 3:25pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Erdogan can use the Saudi kamikazi actions to get back into the good books of the west.

I hate what the Saudis did, and they have been getting away with everything up till now, we wait and see if this ends, unlikely though but people in general are fed up with politicians letting the Saudis off everything including war crimes.

I have not seen much talk of Saudi diplomat expulsion to date but, subject to anything dramatically changing over the next few days, it is surely imminent.

22-10-2018 3:41pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

I have not seen much talk of Saudi diplomat expulsion to date but, subject to anything dramatically changing over the next few days, it is surely imminent.

that's the least of the concerns for the Turks.

taking down Mister Bone Saw could be in play now if they have him on the phone during the "interrogation".

don't see other countries doing it yet (unfortunately)

if it's proven to come from the top (which it did) then sh1t will hit the fan

22-10-2018 4:41pm

fake body double cctv footage released

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/22/cctv-footage-appears-to-show-jamal-khashoggi-body-double-in-istanbul

apparently the Saudis scrapped the plan of promoting this as evidence of him being alive because they had the wrong shoes lol

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/22/saudi-coverup-scrapped-cause-khashoggi-body-double-wore-wrong-shoes.html

inept muppets.

definitely was only to be an "interrogation"!

man the Saudis were rightly snared on so many fronts.

meanwhile the king and mister bone saw have offered condolences to Khashoggi's son.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/22/saudi-prince-father-phone-khashoggi-son-condolences-turkey-killing

fooking cheek of them.

22-10-2018 7:11pm

Germany has halted arms sales to Saudi. Good on them but they were probably not selling them too much gear.

Harry Palmr · 22-10-2018 7:16pm

Well exactly. Ireland can make a grand announcement as well on that front

22-10-2018 7:29pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well exactly. Ireland can make a grand announcement as well on that front

won't be hearing of any halting of beef sales in any case.

2016 Irish agri-food exports were valued at €136m to Mister Bone Saw land.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/processed-irish-beef-could-be-exported-to-saudi-arabia-by-year-end-minister-creed/

sure the farmers wouldn't care if they chopped up people daily over there!

wexie · 22-10-2018 7:50pm

glasso wrote: »

sure the farmers wouldn't care if they chopped up people daily over there!

errr....they do chop up people daily (or at least regularly) over there?!

We've know this for quite some time, they usually don't even bother to hide it.

It's just this time they did out without 'due' (LOL) process and outside their own country.

I can see how that's unusual and probably shouldn't be tolerated. I'm not sure why you think farmers over here should care though.

Infini · 22-10-2018 8:16pm

loyatemu wrote: »

Putin can do this sort of thing because he doesn't give a sh!t what the west thinks of him, MBS obviously does care, but completely underestimated how much of a stink this would cause.

Putin didn't exactly get away with it either, might've been able to put up an arguably better veil of deniability at one point but they still ended up taking some diplomatic hits like expulsions a while back. The Saudi's however have not only looked ridiculously sloppy and amateur but they didn't bank on the Turks getting as pissed off at them as they have either. Not only that but murdering someone in their consulate drag's far more unwanted attention on them than they bargained for. It's also a blatant breach of Diplomatic Protocol as well other countries and something that doesnt go down well. It also risk's at least some diplomatic reprisals on them as Western Governments aren't gonna allow them to pull the same thing on their territory.

Some businesses are distancing themselves from them already and while Trump is a tool his Republican backers will change his mind enough to make him do something as ultimately if it feeds his ego he'd happily throw the Saudi's under the bus.

wexie · 22-10-2018 8:24pm

Infini wrote: »

Some businesses are distancing themselves from them already

How long do you think that's likely to last though? My guess is no more than until a few days after this all is out of the headlines.

The Saudis did a 'bold' thing and they got caught, the look bad, they look sloppy.
Depending on what evidence the Turks have it may even put a permanent dent in MBS's nice shiny reformer armour.

But after that it'll be business as usual, below is a graph of the daily crude oil production 2012-2017 by country, care to take a guess which one that is at the top?

22-10-2018 8:24pm

hopefully the Turks will reveal some good stuff tomorrow. would love if MBS could be directly implicated by evidence they have and that if they have it that they seek to use it.

aside from the gruesome nature of what happened this has been one of the most fascinating stories in years in the way that it has played out.

22-10-2018 8:26pm

wexie wrote: »

How long do you think that's likely to last though? My guess is no more than until a few days after this all is out of the headlines.

The Saudis did a 'bold' thing and they got caught, the look bad, they look sloppy.
Depending on what evidence the Turks have it may even put a permanent dent in MBS's nice shiny reformer armour.

But after that it'll be business as usual, below is a graph of the daily crude oil production 2012-2017 by country, care to take a guess which one that is at the top?

yes they are crucial to the world oil supply

the US overtook Saudi Arabia this year as the world's largest producer though

https://www.worldoil.com/news/2018/9/12/eia-us-overtakes-russia-saudi-arabia-as-worlds-largest-crude-producer

wexie · 22-10-2018 8:27pm

glasso wrote: »

hopefully the Turks will reveal some good stuff tomorrow. would love if MBS could be directly implicated by evidence they have and that if they have it that they seek to use it.

That would make it interesting indeed, I think then perhaps he will personally have to face some consequences, KSA as a country though....I genuinely can't see how they're going to face anything more than a slap on the wrist.

22-10-2018 8:33pm

wexie wrote: »

That would make it interesting indeed, I think then perhaps he will personally have to face some consequences, KSA as a country though....I genuinely can't see how they're going to face anything more than a slap on the wrist.

just seeing that inbred fooker MBS taking the hit would be great though.

even from the head on him you can tell that he is a cant.

wexie · 22-10-2018 8:35pm

glasso wrote: »

yes they are crucial to the world oil supply

the US overtook Saudi Arabia this year as the world's largest producer though

https://www.worldoil.com/news/2018/9/12/eia-us-overtakes-russia-saudi-arabia-as-worlds-largest-crude-producer

that's hardly much use to the rest of the world is it?

I'm just trying to figure out what would be an appropriate reaction to this.

One of the one hand of course it's very much a disgraceful act (I think it's a reasonable assumption that someone ordered this, perhaps even MBS himself) on the other hand what could western governments do about this beyond harsh words and inflicting some temporary reputational damage, maybe make it a little harder for Saudis to buy real estate in London....but beyond that?

22-10-2018 8:40pm

wexie wrote: »

that's hardly much use to the rest of the world is it?

I'm just trying to figure out what would be an appropriate reaction to this.

One of the one hand of course it's very much a disgraceful act (I think it's a reasonable assumption that someone ordered this, perhaps even MBS himself) on the other hand what could western governments do about this beyond harsh words and inflicting some temporary reputational damage, maybe make it a little harder for Saudis to buy real estate in London....but beyond that?

a lot of damage has been done to them reputationally. It will mean for example, that avenues to investing money will be closed off (not all of course) for them.

It may actually in the long run drive some actual reform. The focus of the world has been on this story and their primitive and brutal ways have been under the lens as well as their arrogance in trying to get away with it.

goat2 · 22-10-2018 8:42pm

glasso wrote: »

hopefully the Turks will reveal some good stuff tomorrow. would love if MBS could be directly implicated by evidence they have and that if they have it that they seek to use it.

aside from the gruesome nature of what happened this has been one of the most fascinating stories in years in the way that it has played out.

The Turks have been drip feeding us information in the past few days, The Saudis gave four different accounts, kept changing story,

they even went to the trouble of finding a double of the murdered man and putting the murdered mans clothes on him to let people think he had left the building.
I am guessing it is the fact that his fiancé was waiting for him to come out and when he did not turn up, she rang a trusted person,
If Mr Khashoggi had gone to that embassy without letting someone know and have a person waiting for him
I bet they would say he was never there in the first place, that would have been the end of it,
His girlfriend is not in secure place with body guards for her, they must think her life is in danger, how the poor ladies life changed overnight

22-10-2018 8:43pm

some nice hacking going on

https://gizmodo.com/saudi-arabian-conference-website-apparently-hacked-to-h-1829913347

22-10-2018 9:53pm

I predict Mister Bone Saw - Saudi get-up with a prop saw will be a Halloween costume choice that will appear over the next 10 days

donaghs · 23-10-2018 10:00am

glasso wrote: »

Germany has halted arms sales to Saudi. Good on them but they were probably not selling them too much gear.

Well, nothing from the French on this. They been making inroads into the lucrative Saudi market recently, and woukd be hesitant to turn off the money tap.
2015: https://nationalinterest.org/feature/france-saudi-arabias-new-arms-dealer-13533
july 2018: https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-egypt-arms/despite-criticism-at-home-french-arms-sales-double-in-the-middle-east-idUKKBN1JT21W

23-10-2018 10:44am

live from Erdogan

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/oct/23/jamal-khashoggi-death-erdogan-turkish-parliament-live

So Erdogan copped out - no mention of the audio or video recordings. The story will peter out now - politics took over in the end as usual - Erdogan could have exploded the whole facade.

“I do not doubt the sincerity of King Salman. That being said, independent investigation needs to be carried out. This is a political killing”

- That’s huge from Erdoğan. Doesn’t mention MbS’s innocence or have faith in Saudi investigation

Erdoğan’s address has made it crystal clear that the murder of Jamal Khashoggi was a premeditated and meticulously planned political assassination. He mentioned that reconnaissance teams went as far as scouting forest areas near Istanbul.

Erdoğan’s speech carried a strong implication that the Turkish president does not think MbS is innocent in this case, writes our Turkey and Middle East correspondent, Bethan McKernan. Erdoğan also wants Turkey to conduct the criminal investigation.

The Guardian’s Middle East editor, Martin Chulov, writes:

There were few new details in Erdogan’s speech, which fell short of the expectations he himself had set by claiming it would reveal the “full naked truth” behind Jamal Khashoggi’s death.

A team of three people arrived from Riyadh on October 1, the day before the disappearance, and scouted a forest near Istanbul. The implication is that the three men were looking for a place to discard Khashoggi’s remains.

The 18 people arrested by Riyadh included all those who Turkey had named as assassins, as well as three other men, whose identities have not been revealed.

Erdogan made no reference to audio or video recordings, which would be deeply damaging to Saudi leaders.

He asked for the 18 men to be tried in Istanbul. Throughout his address, he remained deferential to King Salman, and made no mention of embattled Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman.

OleRodrigo · 23-10-2018 11:33am

If everyone knows the recordings exist, it puts him in a very strong position

josip · 23-10-2018 11:54am

He can probably extract the maximum value from them up to the point when he releases them to the public, which he may never will while he's in power.
MBS will always be looking over his shoulder and will be much more restricted about what he can do regionally.
The best outcome for Erdogan is for MBS to remain in power, but to have to think before every political action whether Erdogan would approve.

Timberrrrrrrr · 23-10-2018 7:45pm

Just seen this
'Remains found' in search for missing journalist

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-sources-jamal-khashoggis-body-parts-found-11533202

Jamal Khashoggi: Saudi journalist's body parts found, say Sky sources
19:35, UK,

Body parts belonging to murdered journalist Jamal Khashoggi have been found, according to two Sky sources.

The sources have told Sky News the Saudi dissident had been "cut up" and his face "disfigured".

One source also suggested the writer's remains were discovered in the garden of the Saudi consul general's Istanbul home - located around 500 metres away from the consulate.

23-10-2018 9:46pm

chopped up and his face disfigured - primitive savages.

NSAman · 23-10-2018 9:50pm

Absolutely horrendous, does not sound like an argument to me. Sounds more like an organised "hit".

Does anyone believe the Saudis at this stage?

wexie · 23-10-2018 10:07pm

NSAman wrote: »

Does anyone believe the Saudis at this stage?

Hell no, I think they're all desperately thinking of ways they can go easy on the Saudis while still trying to retain some semblance of being believable to their voters/customers/shareholders.

I think the majority of the international community are more upset over how stupidly they did this rather than the fact they did it.

Would have been so much easier for everybody if poor Jamal had just had an unfortunate accident

23-10-2018 10:48pm

Khashoggi's body found in Newcastle

smurgen · 24-10-2018 7:28am

If the pictures i've seen on whatsapp of the body are genuine i believe this story will not be swept under the rug.absolutely horrendous.

24-10-2018 7:53am

smurgen wrote: »

If the pictures i've seen on whatsapp of the body are genuine i believe this story will not be swept under the rug.absolutely horrendous.

I'd imagine that they are fake.

Jamal Khashoggi disappearance

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