Jamal Khashoggi disappearance

[Deleted User]

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"During the fight he fell on this angle-grinder that was running, then he tripped and collapsed on this active chainsaw.. then he careered over here where he toppled over a forensic pathologist with a bone saw who accidentally and neatly took all his limbs off.."

In all likeliness, with the body, they will claim it was taken back to Saudi but was "dumped in the sea" (or similar) in a panic by the men who abducted him, the 15 "scapegoats"

Taking bets on it

the bone saw used is a manual job by the way - need to put the back into it for getting through those femurs and general beheading.

Cheerful Spring

Saudis like the number 15 for some reason?

There were 15 Saudi hijackers on 9/11 too.

RobertKK

Do the Saudis have incriminating evidence against Trump?

Trump says he finds the Saudi explanation credible.

The lack of moral leadership in the west is being exposed like never before.

feargale

wexie wrote: »

For a more serious answer this time. I can't see how they're thinking this whole fight thing is going to hold water.

IF it was indeed an accident (:rolleyes:) there is absolutely no sensible reason they didn't come out with it straightaway. As a matter of fact if they had just broken the mans neck and produced the body within hours this whole thing would be mostly out of the news by now.

But if it was a fight and an accident then where is the body? (regardless of whatever condition it is in wherever it is).

So if they produce a body it will more than likely prove they are lying, if they don't produce a body they have no logical reason as to why not.

Either way they are lying, and poorly at that.

It seems Mr. Khashoggi saw 15 heavies, lost it and took on all 15 in fistcuffs. Clearly he thought he was Finn McCool. If Donald believes this why shouldn't we?

Gael23

Do we know what was in the injection he was given? I imagine some sort of poison.

wexie

Gael23 wrote: »

Do we know what was in the injection he was given? I imagine some sort of poison.

Haven't heard anything about an injection, but if there was one I think we can safely assume it wasn't a vitamin booster.

And we probably won't know until a body is found.

RobertKK

It was reported before that Khashoggi was given as they sawed bits off his body while alive.

If I hear Trump talk about jobs in the US because criminals in Saudi Arabia are funding them...he deserves everything bad coming to him as the Saudi explanation is neither credible or the actual truth. Why is Trump trying to protect them?

feargale

RobertKK wrote: »

It was reported before that Khashoggi was given as they sawed bits off his body while alive.

If I hear Trump talk about jobs in the US because criminals in Saudi Arabia are funding them...he deserves everything bad coming to him as the Saudi explanation is neither credible or the actual truth. Why is Trump trying to protect them?

Do you need an answer to that? Because the son of a bitch has no moral compass. He has made no secret of his reluctance to call out his "valuable allies." The oil that USA gets from Saudi is ill-gotten goods. Praise the Lord :rolleyes:

Rhineshark

RobertKK wrote: »

It was reported before that Khashoggi was given as they sawed bits off his body while alive.

If I hear Trump talk about jobs in the US because criminals in Saudi Arabia are funding them...he deserves everything bad coming to him as the Saudi explanation is neither credible or the actual truth. Why is Trump trying to protect them?

Billions of dollars in Saudi weapons deals and Saudi investment in his businesses.

VonZan

RobertKK wrote: »

It was reported before that Khashoggi was given as they sawed bits off his body while alive.

If I hear Trump talk about jobs in the US because criminals in Saudi Arabia are funding them...he deserves everything bad coming to him as the Saudi explanation is neither credible or the actual truth. Why is Trump trying to protect them?

The reality of the situation is that sanctions puts a lot of weapons manufacturers at risk. He won't manage to get away with this one though. If Iran did this Pompeo, Mathis and Bolton would be declaring war. This will shred whatever is left of the United States international reputation.

Timberrrrrrrr

VonZan wrote: »

The reality of the situation is that sanctions puts a lot of weapons manufacturers at risk. He won't manage to get away with this one though. If Iran did this Pompeo, Mathis and Bolton would be declaring war. This will shred whatever is left of the United States international reputation.

This^

If the US fob this off
then they have zero comeback to preach to other nations about thier human rights violations!

Rhineshark

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

This^

If the US fob this off
then they have zero comeback to preach to other nations about thier human rights violations!

Yes, but they don't want to anyway.

The current Trump US doesn't see the US as a force for peace in the world, but more like an apex predator. The rest of the world is there for America to make money from in any way possible (and enrich her rulers).

Trump hasn't the remotest interest in standing up for journalists not being murdered in a diplomatic embassy, despite the long-held customs of embassy safety. And thus Trump's US hasn't the remotest interest in human rights if it should risk impacting Saudi profits even slightly. Which drawing this line does.

Not being able to condemn other human rights violations is fine. Why should Trump care about the peculiar concept of "other people"?

Edit: Argument works slightly better on, say, the UK, also under pressure to react (as they sell them arms rather than as a "world power"; that position has been rather obviously ceded in the last couple of years). But the UK still pay lip service the concept of rights and stuff that countries shouldn't be up to.

Admittedly, won't work in a country which appears to be getting more reliant on being one of the top arms producers in the world either. But they still feel the need to pretend they have some influence and willingness to use it.

fly_agaric

Rhineshark wrote: »

Edit: Argument works slightly better on, say, the UK, also under pressure to react (as they sell them arms rather than as a "world power"; that position has been rather obviously ceded in the last couple of years). But the UK still pay lip service the concept of rights and stuff that countries shouldn't be up to.
But they still feel the need to pretend they have some influence and willingness to use it.

They've had Russian hit squads roaming around their own country using extremely dangerous weapons & killing and maiming civilians as collateral damage. Their reaction to this has been quite limited (at least I thought it would have been bigger anyway). That might be put down to influence of Russian money on the Conservatives or whatever but in the end it is really weakness. They don't think they can act more strongly, and don't have assurance that their biggest ally (US) under current leadership will back them up.

The last shreds of the sort of post WW2 order with 2 and then 1 big power setting a kind of international rule book (that they might sometimes break themselves or direct/allow a proxy to break on their behalf) are going up in flames.
I'm not history expert but we seem to be heading back to an older form of relationships between states, might makes right, the strong always do what they can (get away with) and the weak suffer what they must. The Syrian war is an example. A whole load of states that have an interest & feel they have the strength seem to be pursuing their own policies there, arming client groups, even launching their own attacks into Syria. There is no global "superpower" directing any of that activity. It is a bit disturbing.

Harry Palmr

The Americans were actually more reactive than the UK to the Salisbury Skripal case. The Tories are scared of losing all that dodgy money that gets rinsed through the City of London.

goat2

Phone records were showing that the murderers of Khashoggi were on to the Saudi head as they were murdering him, giving updates of what was going on, and that his body has been wrapped in a rug and in a forest, and that one of the murderers wore the dead mans clothes and went out the back entrance as a disguise to have people think it was Khashoggi

Jameswhalley

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The Americans were actually more reactive than the UK to the Salisbury Skripal case. The Tories are scared of losing all that dodgy money that gets rinsed through the City of London.

The opposite is true,they're cracking down on dirty russian money ATM

Was this guy tortured do we know, did he have any useful sources or info.

Was he writing expose stories with inside info or just grand opinion type pieces?

goat2

RobertKK wrote: »

Do the Saudis have incriminating evidence against Trump?

Trump says he finds the Saudi explanation credible.

The lack of moral leadership in the west is being exposed like never before.

That could well be the case, Trump has been doing business with them since he was in his early thirties, sold them a lot of apartments, real estate back then, and was always looking at ways to reduce tax on his investments, they have been friends a long time before he ever entered politics,

[Deleted User]

Trump now changing tack on the Saudi horsesh1t

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/21/us/politics/trump-khashoggi.html

“Obviously, there’s been deception and there’s been lies,” Mr. Trump said in a telephone interview with The Washington Post. “Their stories are all over the place.”

[Deleted User]

goat2 wrote: »

Phone records were showing that the murderers of Khashoggi were on to the Saudi head as they were murdering him, giving updates of what was going on, and that his body has been wrapped in a rug and in a forest, and that one of the murderers wore the dead mans clothes and went out the back entrance as a disguise to have people think it was Khashoggi

they were onto Mister Bone Saw directly or the the intelligence head?

Dohnjoe

Appears Saudi is in full damage limitation mode, sacrificing scapegoats to cover the higher-ups and Salman who must have been involved in this decision. He's an obsessive, and a control freak, it's very unlikely he wasn't behind this or had full knowledge of it

[Deleted User]

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Appears Saudi is in full damage limitation mode, sacrificing scapegoats to cover the higher-ups and Salman who must have been involved in this decision. He's an obsessive, and a control freak, it's very unlikely he wasn't behind this or had full knowledge of it

for sure Mister Bone Saw ordered it with the way he is a control nutter over things in KSA.

Saudis have upgraded their sceal to murder now.

so their story went from

"We don't know nuttin'"
"we hope he's well"
"botched interrogation"
"fist fight death"
"choked in scuffle"
"murder"

some shower of muppets with no credibility.

Turkey to reveal sh1t on Tuesday
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/erdogan-turkey-reveal-naked-truth-khashoggi-killing-181021152727536.html

forced the Saudis hand even though they still won't tell the truth.

now if they have MBS on the phone on the audio while yer man was getting snuffed and choose to reveal that that would be great.

loyatemu

The story about the fight is just beyond ludicrous. A 60 year-old journalist walks into an ambush with 15 armed secret service guys and thinks, "OK I'll fight my way out!". Even if he had tried to escape, 15 well-trained guys would surely have been able to subdue him without killing him, if they had been instructed to bring him back alive.

Putin can do this sort of thing because he doesn't give a sh!t what the west thinks of him, MBS obviously does care, but completely underestimated how much of a stink this would cause.

wexie

loyatemu wrote: »

MBS obviously does care, but completely underestimated how much of a stink this would cause.

I'd imagine he's wishing he'd taken the Chinese approach :

China's top representative governing the Chinese territory of Macau has died after falling from a tall building.

Beijing released a brief statement saying that Zheng Xiaosong had been suffering from depression, implying he had killed himself.

[...]

However, hundreds of mid-level Chinese officials who had been accused of graft have died in recent years - reportedly by killing themselves, though observers have questioned these accounts.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45931607

loyatemu

wexie wrote: »

I'd imagine he's wishing he'd taken the Chinese approach :



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45931607

yeah, the Chinese do this sort of thing all the time, nobody really bats an eyelid.

[Deleted User]

loyatemu wrote: »

yeah, the Chinese do this sort of thing all the time, nobody really bats an eyelid.

They don't get recorded doing it in a foreign country tho and then lying about it and changing their bullsh1t story every two hours.

The Arabs know how to run amateur hour that's for sure.

Apparently Khashoggi was a friend of Erdogan. Explains why maybe the Turks didn't just roll over on this

OleRodrigo

His family was originally Turkish, they moved to what is now Saudi but then was under the Ottoman empire.

Elmer Blooker

wexie wrote: »

I'd imagine he's wishing he'd taken the Chinese approach :



https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45931607

I stopped reading at the "casino hub of Macao" bit.

Everything going as expected ... the Saudi regime worming their way out with groveling apologies, Trump an apologist for that regime by suggesting "rogue elements", Saudi allies (EU,UK) buying time by calling for "investigations" and "inquiries" which we know will never happen, the Saudi friendly media turning attention to China and Russia as a diversion etc etc.

[Deleted User]

the Turks might up the ante and incriminate Mister Bone Saw directly.
They apparently offered the Saudis a way out initially but they ignored the Turkish approach.
Then the Turks started leaking details.

now it has got to the stage where Bone Saw will be not too happy with the Turks.

It's not in their (Turkish) interest to have a psycho like him in power for 50 years (he's only 32) who won't be best disposed towards Turkey.

Erdogan to reveal more tomorrow he has stated.

Will he go all in?!

[Deleted User]

interesting article here about the interaction between the Turks and the Saudis

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/21/death-of-dissident-jamal-khashoggi-mohammed-bin-salman

OleRodrigo

If its not Zuckerberg wrecking democracy its MBS insisting life is really a Game of Thrones episode.

Bloody Millennials. Should stick to avocado and toast/ complaining about rents etc