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Fast commuter ebike - opinions please - see mod note post #25

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  • 15-09-2017 12:01pm
    #1
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭


    Hi Folks,



    I am interested in getting an e-bike for a 50km daily commute (around the bay in Dublin). I have been completing the commute on a roadbike for a couple of months now and this is the scenario I find myself in.

    - It takes too long (65min)

    - I find myself getting jaded in day 2-3 of the week, I have changed diet / supplements etc. to mitigate this with limited success.

    - I am getting shoulder pain on the drops so I want to get flat bars but this will reduce speed

    - I hate headwinds

    I have the CTW scheme available and I am supposing on what ebike would be suitable and so far have been attracted by the following bikes. I want a racy clean frame and have no need for suspension forks:



    Giant Quick-e+ (€2.5k):

    Pro’s

    Nice build.

    Relatively light / fast bike

    400wh battery.

    Mudguards+lights.

    Nice integration of the battery and motor.

    Con’s

    Reviews saying that the Yamaha PW motor isn’t snappy enough.



    Lapierre Overvolt Shaper 400 (€2.5k)(no reviews available):

    Pro’s

    Nice build but less integrated than the Giant

    Relatively light / fast bike

    400wh battery.

    Bosch performance line motor supposed to be superior to Yamaha PW

    Cons:

    No mudguards+lights.



    Raleigh Strada XL (E) (2.6k):

    Pro’s

    Sharp looking bike, very clean build

    Relatively light / fast bike

    400wh battery.

    Integrated shimano steps motor with a Di2 internal gear hub – less maintenance and auto gears.

    Cons:

    No mudguards+lights.

    A little more expensive



    Does anyone have experience of the above bikes? All opinions are welcome apart from rule #5 :o


«13

Comments

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    #2
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Haibikes in Greenaer off Pearse street are worth looking at
    http://www.greenaer.ie/fast-e-bikes/


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    #3
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,025 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    If your commute is flat and you average 25kph excluding stopping time then you're not going to save any time on a bike whose assistance stops at 25kph.

    You may even go slower because it'll be heavier and less aero.


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    #4
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Ferris wrote: »
    I have the CTW scheme available
    the law says the CTW scheme is for pedelecs with a max speed of 25km/h. There was some debate about this being the law for all pedelecs to be used on roads, I think it is an EU standard, but some said there was no listed limit in Irish law.

    this relates to the scheme
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/act/25/enacted/en/print
    ‘ pedelec ’ means a bicycle or tricycle which is equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kilowatts, of which output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 kilometres per hour, or sooner if the cyclist stops pedalling;
    Ferris wrote: »
    Lapierre Overvolt Shaper 400 (€2.5k)(no reviews available):

    Pro’s

    Nice build but less integrated than the Giant

    Relatively light / fast bike

    400wh battery.

    Bosch performance line motor supposed to be superior to Yamaha PW
    I think that bike has the less powerful bosch active motor


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    #5
    ford2600
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Fairly sh1te forum for advice on electric bikes.

    I'd send this OP in this thread a pm to see what he thinks. Or else try Uk/German forums etc
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84802550


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    #6
    cc
    Registered Users Posts: 450 ✭✭cc


    You wont really get there any faster with an ebike, it's more about less effort, after 25kph you do all the work yourself


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    #7
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,619 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Go for one of these, the Porsche Specialized Turbo S


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    #8
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,366 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    rubadub wrote: »
    Ferris wrote: »
    I have the CTW scheme available
    the law says the CTW scheme is for pedelecs with a max speed of 25km/h. There was some debate about this being the law for all pedelecs to be used on roads, I think it is an EU standard, but some said there was no listed limit in Irish law.

    this relates to the scheme
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2008/act/25/enacted/en/print
    ‘ pedelec ’ means a bicycle or tricycle which is equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kilowatts, of which output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 kilometres per hour, or sooner if the cyclist stops pedalling;
    Ferris wrote: »
    Lapierre Overvolt Shaper 400 (€2.5k)(no reviews available):

    Pro’s

    Nice build but less integrated than the Giant

    Relatively light / fast bike

    400wh battery.

    Bosch performance line motor supposed to be superior to Yamaha PW
    I think that bike has the less powerful bosch active motor
    I believe the 25kph limit was changed , someone linked it in a previous post


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    #9
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    I have the 2016 model of the Lapierre Overvolt Shaper 400 (Its Black/blue as opposed to black/yellow). I got mine earlier this year in Cyclesuperstore and got it cheaper as it was old stock. They sold it with mudguards on.

    If your commute is on flat ground and not broken up with lights, it really wont make any difference to your commute though (out of the box). My commute (10k each way) is stop/start and uphill so it gives me a big boost - being unfit and overweight I would not have considered a cycling commute without it.


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    #10
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    Have you looked at Easy Motion?
    https://easymotion.ie/collections/long-range-electric-bikes


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    #11
    TooObvious
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭TooObvious


    I don't know a lot about e-bikes, but i do know washing machines, and my 12 year old Bosch has yet to break down!


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    #12
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    Whopper response folks, thanks.

    I am not adverse to delimiting an e-bike at all, the rationale is to maintain 25km without having to kill myself twice a day, every day, that's where fatigue is defeating me currently. Also to get that speed on fatter tyres and on straight bars and a more relaxed geometry would help (I guess) the shoulder issue.

    Ref. other options, https://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=113227 says that the Shaper has the performance line motor. Haibikes look great but at the current pricepoint they have the same motor as the giant and are heavier with suspension forks. I like the turbo S obviously but 7k??

    My commute has hills either end, most significantly Howth hill so it'll need to have a kick.


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    #13
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    Going to try out the Giant in the next couple of days.


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    #14
    Alek
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    My wife has Cube Hybrid Pro with the Performance CX motor and tends to pull a trailer with 2 kids up the mountains sometimes.

    Let me put it this way: if you do not see yourself hauling cargo up the Sally Gap, Active line motor will me more than enough, and quieter.


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    #15
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    Ferris wrote: »
    Whopper response folks, thanks.

    I am not adverse to delimiting an e-bike at all, the rationale is to maintain 25km without having to kill myself twice a day, every day, that's where fatigue is defeating me currently. Also to get that speed on fatter tyres and on straight bars and a more relaxed geometry would help (I guess) the shoulder issue.

    Ref. other options, https://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=113227 says that the Shaper has the performance line motor. Haibikes look great but at the current pricepoint they have the same motor as the giant and are heavier with suspension forks. I like the turbo S obviously but 7k??

    My commute has hills either end, most significantly Howth hill so it'll need to have a kick.


    Cyclesuperstore has a small test track - they will let you try out bikes, but not on the road


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    #16
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    Thanks, I'll give them a call.


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    #17
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Ferris wrote: »
    Ref. other options, https://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=113227 says that the Shaper has the performance line motor.
    ah right, that is the 2018 model, I had not seen that with the performance. CRC have the 2017 model listed and photographed with the active motor.

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/lapierre-overvolt-shaper-400-e-bike-2017/rp-prod148754

    I am not sure how long the motors are meant to last, but you can select different power assist levels. I liked the idea of having a powerful motor and maybe going about in the second highest power, to possibly extend the life of it. Not sure if it would.


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    #18
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,619 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    Yamaha are bringing out some eBikes too...hopefully just road bikes! :eek: :D

    http://www.yamahabicycles.com/


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    #19
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    The main problem with your current choices is battery size...a 400 Wh battery will not get you there and back on one charge. Not if you're in a hurry and upping the assistance and especially not if you're thinking about delimiting it and cruising over 25 km/h for longer periods.

    My bike has a 374 Wh battery (36V/10.4 Ah)...what Bosch would call a 400 Wh.
    I don't have a Bosch motor but a Tongsheng TSDZ2 (assistance is comparable to a Bosch Active though).

    I ride 7.5 km over hilly terrain one way and change assist levels between none and full all during the trip depending on incline/decline. I currently get 4 trips out of the battery which is more or less exactly 60 km. My average speed currently is just under 26 km/h. When I recharge the battery there may be a few more kms left on flat terrain...but not another whole trip to work at my profile.
    The lower the battery gets, the more the higher assist levels put it under strain.

    In Germany you could buy what they call a speed-pedelec (assist to 45 kmh), but they need insurance (cheap there at about 40 quid), mirrors and permanent lights and you need to wear a helmet and are not allowed on cycle paths...dunno what the situation is here.



    In your situation you will need at least a 500Wh battery and a little less urgency or maybe spend 6k on a Riese and Muller Delite with two batteries :D
    https://www.r-m.de/en-us/e-bike/delite/

    EDIT:
    The two battery suggestion was based on me (wrongly?) assuming that your commute is 50 km each way/ 100 km total.
    But even if the total is "only" 50 km...you should still go for the bigger battery to allow for the odd longer trip/ cold weather/ full-assist bad mood kind of day


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    #20
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    ^^good point, I missed the length of the commute. The bosch charger is quite light for the size of it, so bringing it to work & home again might be an option. Depending on your work you might want to remove the battery to bring it safely inside anyway. The cost of charging them is minimal, in case work thing you are doing it just to freeload on their electricity.

    Says 600g or 800g, an that includes the "figure 8" plug which can be detached.

    https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products/charger/


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    #21
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    Good point about battery capacity. The commute is 25km each way. All 3 bikes quote a 85km range on mid-assist but that's makers claims obviously. Charging in work wouldn't be an issue, prob best to get a spare charger for work.


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    #22
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    There are two ways to get high speed out of an e-bike:

    -Or get a really light bike so that the unassisted pedaling doesn't get too hard

    My bike for example is a real heavyweight (26 kg apparently) and once the motor cuts off it's like cycling into pudding on anything but a downhill stretch.

    But up to assistance cut-off you'll get a decent turn of speed while still getting a workout. Hills are the real revelation...you still have to put in a good bit of work...but you will be moving like you never thought possible.

    Get enough battery capacity so you don't have to feel guilty about using high assist and it really can be a lot of fun.
    You can even take a "break" while still doing 24.9 km/h: Have it on full power and just pedal lightly just under the limit ...should take the sting out of some of the boring/windy stretches of your commute.


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    #23
    Bigus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Bigus


    What about a speed 45 from cyclesuperstore, 500 w ah and about 4 k €, ? 45 Kmh top speed .

    However due to the political sh going on up the north , it seems all pedelecs are illegal until a new assembly passes some emergency legislation , hence chain reaction are selling ebikes in a fire sale at the mo , my personal choice would be a lapierre 400 @ €1609 rrp in the south € 2400, I bought one favourable price , it's great.
    @ 1609'you could try it for a while and sell it on secondhand for profit if it wasn't up to speed .
    Bosch motor , Bosch battery


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    #24
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    Great point about the fire sale in the north. Also ctw scheme includes chainreaction. What do you think of this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/ghost-andasol-cross-2-e-bike-2017/rp-prod148463
    Are ghost a good build, it has the Bosch performance motor but only a 400wh battery. Has forks which I don't need but says it's under 20kg which is comparable in weight


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    #25
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,646 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    all, just a reminder about the terms of use of boards.ie - no discussion on encouraging or facilitating anything illegal. so no talk about 'chipping' bikes in ways which would allow you to violate the law on them.

    i've edited a few posts which mention this.
    happy to take clarification on what the upper limit in ireland is, if such info is reliable.
    We expect you to act responsibly in posting Material on Boards.ie. You agree, through use of this service, NOT to use boards.ie to:
    .
    post Material that promotes or encourages illegal activity facilitate or encourage any violation of these Terms of Use


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    #26
    Feckofff
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Feckofff


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    all, just a reminder about the terms of use of boards.ie - no discussion on encouraging or facilitating anything illegal. so no talk about 'chipping' bikes in ways which would allow you to violate the law on them.

    i've edited a few posts which mention this.
    happy to take clarification on what the upper limit in ireland is, if such info is reliable.


    There is nothing illegal about "chipping" an ebike. It's like having a car that can exceed the speed limit. The responsibility is with the operator.


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    #27
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,646 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    from what i understand, it's considered a moped if it exceeds the specs of the law; so yes, you *could* argue that it's legal to do, as long as the owner never uses it on a public road again as a bicycle, which would render the argument slightly jesuitical.


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    #28
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,719 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Feckofff wrote: »
    There is nothing illegal about "chipping" an ebike. It's like having a car that can exceed the speed limit. The responsibility is with the operator.

    You are discussing altering a bike in a way that would make it illegal on the road in the context of riding that bike on the road. As mb has said that violates the terms of use for this site. If you (or anyone else) wishes to discuss the mod instruction above or this response take it to PM. Do not continue this aspect of the "discussion" here.

    Thanks


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    #29
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    from what i understand, it's considered a moped if it exceeds the specs of the law; so yes, you *could* argue that it's legal to do, as long as the owner never uses it on a public road again as a bicycle, which would render the argument slightly jesuitical.

    No problem. In the same vein it would be ridiculous to suggest that a moped owner doesn't need tax and insurance if he promises to never exceed 25Kph on a public road


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    #30
    Feckofff
    Registered Users Posts: 116 ✭✭Feckofff


    Beasty wrote: »
    You are discussing altering a bike in a way that would make it illegal on the road in the context of riding that bike on the road. As mb has said that violates the terms of use for this site. If you (or anyone else) wishes to discuss the mod instruction above or this response take it to PM. Do not continue this aspect of the "discussion" here.

    Thanks

    Are you giving legal advice? Stating that something is illegal with out any supporting evidence certainly sounds like legal advise/opinion to me.


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    #31
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    As an aside...
    Would anyone have any idea what it would entail in terms of insurance cost and motor tax cost to properly register a speed pedelec in this country?


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