A buyers story - The joys of dealing with estate agents!

swirlser · 10-08-2011 9:36am #1

Just wanted to share what I think is an amazing story with you folks, with a message to both buyers and sellers...

A friend of mine finally got sick of paying rent earlier this year and decided to buy. Hes reasonably clued in on the market (in fact thanks to him I sold my house in Aug '06 :pac:) and even though he was confident theres still room for a drop in price and a long, long road to recovery he just got fed up of rent and landlords and wanted a place for himself and his family...

Ill get to the more interesting part now! He set his sights on a house with an asking price of 325k, obviously he had no intention on paying that price as other practically identical properties in the area were listed at 275k - and thats asking. But he was keen on the 325k property (kitchen was nicer and back garden was already done to his liking etc), so he made an offer of 250k and the estate agent pretty much laughed it off (agent rang next day to say offer was declined). He figured he would see how an offer of 250k would go on the house up the same street, it was accepted!

Still actually keen on the 325k property, he decided to call around to the house and see if he could contact the owner to find out what sort of money he wanted now that he felt more confident that the asking price on the 325k property was genuinely inflated. The owner himself answered the door and was completely unaware an offer had been made at all!! While he wasnt delighted with the offer, he said he did see the house up the road for 275k and was going to contact the estate agent about adjusting his asking price. There was some back and forth, and thanks to the fact that my friend had an offer accepted of 250k on the virtually identical property he actually got the 325k property at 245k!

Another interesting tid bit, the 275k property had its ad changed to 279k and *UNDER OFFER*! (Different estate agents from the 325k home)

So, we have an estate agent trying to push up the price with the ad change and UNDER OFFER with the new higher price displayed - not that shocking tbh. But the 1st estate agent that took it upon themselves to reject an offer without even letting the seller know!! Really?!

I cant honestly get my head around that!

Sellers - get your neighbour or friend to call your estate agent and see how they are handling your property! (How long before call back/are they willing to view the property at a time that suits you etc).

Buyers - shop around and HAGGLE!! It is still very much a buyers market and estate agents will continue to say that we've leveled off and its a great time to buy, meanwhile independent experts are saying the complete opposite.

Use your own head, the worlds economy is still in the dog house and unemployment numbers here are still dire - how anyone can make a claim that house prices have hit rock bottom and keep a straight face is beyond me. I do honestly believe theres further to drop in prices, but if your seeking a HOME for yourself good luck to you and dont get caught up in estate agents lying through their teeth about the markets being not nearly as bad as reports make out and that the very property you are eye-balling has lots of interest.....

mathie · 10-08-2011 9:54am

Excellent post swirlser

From personal experience I think it's the old EAs vs the new EAs.

A few years ago (2008) we got a very well established EA to sell our property.
We were getting no offers even though we were the cheapest in the estate by 10%! We decided after a few months to change EA and went with a new kid on the block.

He sold it in three weeks.

We later found out the the first EA was advising people who looked at our property to buy in a new estate that he was commissioned to sell!

As swirlser says keep a short leash on them.
They're known to have their best interests at heart ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17jO_w6f8Ck

the groutch · 10-08-2011 11:58am

some estate agents are so out of touch with reality that if you have the time and basic knowledge to, you're better to do it yourself

zuutroy · 10-08-2011 12:00pm

They're a nightmare. We're looking for a place and have recently come under a bit more pressure to get it done soon due to an impending new arrival. GF called into the office last Tuesday to arrange to view 4 places in the area on Sat.
Heard nothing so she rang them on Thurs evening. 'I'll give you a ring tomorrow'. Heard nothing so rang them at COB on Friday. 'I could only arrange one, so we'll leave it til next week'.
WTF? If I were trying to sell a gaf in this day and age I'd be bending over backwards to accommodate people!

swirlser · 10-08-2011 12:08pm

Nice clip, very true!

I dont blame EAs who try putting the best spin on things, its their job to sell and as an ex-salesperson I know only too well. Its the fact that 'spin' and 'white lie' arent even on the radar to some of these guys, they point blank lie about everything (some at least...).

What makes my friends story that bit sweeter is he was very taken by the 325 prop that he was willing to go a little above the 250 mark for it, but the owner obviously saw the other prop and with the knowledge that they accepted 250, his best way to counter was bettering the figure.

After the deal was done, the seller even told my friend that the prop was up for 4 months and he hadnt gotten a single offer (EA of the year award goes to......)! So he was ready to make a deal, fair play to my mate for keeping his game face on when it came to negotiating a deal for the property he was genuinely after.

It has me thinking of buying too, I must say the eurozone crisis, the **** hitting the fan in the US and other events due in the near future like the budget, the only way Id buy is if I felt I was getting a very good deal. My friend even thinks by next year the asking price for homes on his street will be what he paid and it wont even bottom out there. But he went in with his eyes open and its a long term family home so hes happy.

tsoparno · 10-08-2011 12:13pm

EA define the greed of the celtic tiger years why someone is still paid on percentage's is baffling people really should tie them to a set price before letting them sell your property

mrgaa1 · 10-08-2011 2:25pm

I am in the process of buying 3 houses - one a repossession and two that someone is dumping all via estate agents.
The agent dealing with the repossession contacted me within 2 hourse of my asking for further information via their website.
The other estate agent had one answer out of 10 that I had for the other two. The other nine questions I'm waiting over 24 hours for the answers.

I also contacted other estate agents via their online forms and no contact yet and when you ring their offices such and such is dealing with that one and I'll get them to call you.

they are f**ing useless everywhere bar the first one i've described.

I'm buying three because given their current prices, the prices I hope to get at - and that two of them are currently rented out longterm - I should be able to receive my monies back within 11 years. That takes into account some remedial works to one property but does not take into account normal maintenance and also if rent out the third property I'd get my monies back in 8yrs 7 months or there abouts.
Good renting at reasonable prices and the houses are going cheaply. buying in the north as I want to look at my money rather than wake up some morning and see the euro replaced by yen or something :rolleyes:

Aprilmay · 10-08-2011 2:34pm

zuutroy wrote: »

They're a nightmare. We're looking for a place and have recently come under a bit more pressure to get it done soon due to an impending new arrival. GF called into the office last Tuesday to arrange to view 4 places in the area on Sat.
Heard nothing so she rang them on Thurs evening. 'I'll give you a ring tomorrow'. Heard nothing so rang them at COB on Friday. 'I could only arrange one, so we'll leave it til next week'.
WTF? If I were trying to sell a gaf in this day and age I'd be bending over backwards to accommodate people!

We are selling and we changed EA one of the reasons was he didn't pass on feedback and casually mentioned an offer months afterwards.
On the viewings we have told new EA that we don't need much notice as I only work early mornings and can have the house ready in no time as we are very tidy. I think the EA suits themselves with the timings of viewings too.

zuutroy · 10-08-2011 3:02pm

One of the houses is 6 doors down from where I'm living now. I'm considering just knocking on the door this weekend if I can't sort out a viewing.

Aprilmay · 10-08-2011 3:11pm

zuutroy wrote: »

One of the houses is 6 doors down from where I'm living now. I'm considering just knocking on the door this weekend if I can't sort out a viewing.

You could if you wanted to and explain that you have tried to get an appointment with the EA but to no avail.

RasTa · 10-08-2011 3:26pm

zuutroy wrote: »

One of the houses is 6 doors down from where I'm living now. I'm considering just knocking on the door this weekend if I can't sort out a viewing.

You have being told already!

Idbatterim · 11-08-2011 12:01am

the guy was very wise to accept the 245k! if there are identical properties on market, for vastly cheaper, that sets the benchmark, and like you are saying Op with any price, its only the ASKING price! you want to see a shocker, see the 2 properties below!

the below one is immediately overpriced by the difference plus god knows what!

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=599967

http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=584985

Supercell · 11-08-2011 12:11am

OP I'm not surprised at all. I worked in sales many moons ago and I tell you, I would have been out on my arse fast if I didn't follow up leads like these guys!
I'm mortgage approved and ready to sign for the right gaff and have emailed four different agents about properties on daft and myhome, zero responses!
When I call the office unless I get though to the salesperson handling that property I can forget about a call back, its unreal how awful they are!
I could understand this behaviour in the Tiger years but these days?, I really wonder about the quality of management.

swirlser · 11-08-2011 9:08am

@Zuutroy - With how hectic your life is going to become soon, I certainly would go knock on the persons door! Nothing to lose! (If the prop happens to be let out, see if you can get owners name, if the tenants wont give it out - try searching on the PRTB site)

@Idbatterim - The price diff between the two props isnt that shocking (it should be tho!), but any house hunter will come across this much too frequently. What I do find funny is that the private seller has details like the sq ft and the BER displayed along with plenty of photos, where as the estate agent who plucked the list price figure from the sky doesnt bother! Anyone want to take bets on who is able to view their property first?

@Supercell - That really is crazy carry on, can you imagine being the owner of one of those props and finding out that the person your paying to handle this is ignoring someone ready, willing and able to buy!! (You should say your a cash buyer, but I dont even think that'll make much difference).

Which is why I say this again, if your selling or know someone who is - make sure your EA is doing their job and dont give second chances, its not a unique skill being able to return an email or phone call - ditch the lazy EA fast and move on and be sure to let people know to avoid in future.

As for buyers, you unfortunately have to put up with this BS if a house you are very keen on happens to be under the care of one of these lazy EAs, BUT remember, when it comes to actually making an offer - regardless of what the EA will say (eg. they've had several interested parties in this week and confident of a good offer = BS), its a BUYERS MARKET, "low-balling" is the new "fair".

leonidas83 · 11-08-2011 9:30am

swirlser wrote: »

Just wanted to share what I think is an amazing story with you folks, with a message to both buyers and sellers...

A friend of mine finally got sick of paying rent earlier this year and decided to buy. Hes reasonably clued in on the market (in fact thanks to him I sold my house in Aug '06 :pac:) and even though he was confident theres still room for a drop in price and a long, long road to recovery he just got fed up of rent and landlords and wanted a place for himself and his family...

Ill get to the more interesting part now! He set his sights on a house with an asking price of 325k, obviously he had no intention on paying that price as other practically identical properties in the area were listed at 275k - and thats asking. But he was keen on the 325k property (kitchen was nicer and back garden was already done to his liking etc), so he made an offer of 250k and the estate agent pretty much laughed it off (agent rang next day to say offer was declined). He figured he would see how an offer of 250k would go on the house up the same street, it was accepted!

Still actually keen on the 325k property, he decided to call around to the house and see if he could contact the owner to find out what sort of money he wanted now that he felt more confident that the asking price on the 325k property was genuinely inflated. The owner himself answered the door and was completely unaware an offer had been made at all!! While he wasnt delighted with the offer, he said he did see the house up the road for 275k and was going to contact the estate agent about adjusting his asking price. There was some back and forth, and thanks to the fact that my friend had an offer accepted of 250k on the virtually identical property he actually got the 325k property at 245k!

Another interesting tid bit, the 275k property had its ad changed to 279k and *UNDER OFFER*! (Different estate agents from the 325k home)

So, we have an estate agent trying to push up the price with the ad change and UNDER OFFER with the new higher price displayed - not that shocking tbh. But the 1st estate agent that took it upon themselves to reject an offer without even letting the seller know!! Really?!

I cant honestly get my head around that!

Sellers - get your neighbour or friend to call your estate agent and see how they are handling your property! (How long before call back/are they willing to view the property at a time that suits you etc).

Buyers - shop around and HAGGLE!! It is still very much a buyers market and estate agents will continue to say that we've leveled off and its a great time to buy, meanwhile independent experts are saying the complete opposite.

Use your own head, the worlds economy is still in the dog house and unemployment numbers here are still dire - how anyone can make a claim that house prices have hit rock bottom and keep a straight face is beyond me. I do honestly believe theres further to drop in prices, but if your seeking a HOME for yourself good luck to you and dont get caught up in estate agents lying through their teeth about the markets being not nearly as bad as reports make out and that the very property you are eye-balling has lots of interest.....

Hello OP,

I have worked in the property market myself and I'm surprised at the level of incompetence you faced in relation to buying the property. With regard to the first property, I find it highly unusual that the EA would not pass on the offer to the owner as most EA's out there nowadays are just happy to complete the sale at whatever price they can. There is a sell as quickly as you can policy in most offices nowadays, the days of agents trying to haggle on behalf of the owner are long gone, they are just happy to complete the sale nowadays.

When you think about it, the agents fee is probably 1%, so 1% of 250,000 is not that different to 300,000, its definitely not worth hanging around for and dragging out the sale longer wasting both the owner's and his time.

Secondly I do agree that house prices will come down further, but I dont think the market is going to fall like some people are predicting, the value of propertes in general is usually determined by peoples wages and ability to pay, there is still a relatively high employment level in this country, peoples wages are not falling in a big way and we have one of the highest saving rates in the EU. There is still alot of money out there and we saw this at the auctions in Dublin not too long ago when there was que's out of the door at the Shelbourne.

Anyway, congratulations on buying your first home

robd · 11-08-2011 10:19am

leonidas83 wrote: »

There is still alot of money out there and we saw this at the auctions in Dublin not too long ago when there was que's out of the door at the Shelbourne.

Remember this was the first auction in years. The English EA was touting the line that they are coming in to clear the market, a breath of fresh air from the way the Irish EA's have been behaving. And finally, the biggy, they let spectators in who had no intention of buying and weren't signed up. The 2nd auction, they only allowed serious buyers. By the 3rd I reckon they will struggle. That's my hunch anyway.

swirlser · 11-08-2011 10:28am

leonidas83 wrote: »

Hello OP,

I have worked in the property market myself and I'm surprised at the level of incompetence you faced in relation to buying the property. With regard to the first property, I find it highly unusual that the EA would not pass on the offer to the owner as most EA's out there nowadays are just happy to complete the sale at whatever price they can. There is a sell as quickly as you can policy in most offices nowadays, the days of agents trying to haggle on behalf of the owner are long gone, they are just happy to complete the sale nowadays.

When you think about it, the agents fee is probably 1%, so 1% of 250,000 is not that different to 300,000, its definitely not worth hanging around for and dragging out the sale longer wasting both the owner's and his time.

Secondly I do agree that house prices will come down further, but I dont think the market is going to fall like some people are predicting, the value of propertes in general is usually determined by peoples wages and ability to pay, there is still a relatively high employment level in this country, peoples wages are not falling in a big way and we have one of the highest saving rates in the EU. There is still alot of money out there and we saw this at the auctions in Dublin not too long ago when there was que's out of the door at the Shelbourne.

Anyway, congratulations on buying your first home

I dont want to sound like too much of an A-hole here, since I dont believe you posted with the intent of causing me aggravation. But you should know that if you are going to weigh in and try give this thread a little balance, at least have the decency to read it first!

You refer to ME as being the purchaser (twice), it was my friend! This isnt a my-"friend"-has-this-embarrassing-problem. This actually was my friend! Also you mention its my first home....? Where are you getting this information from?!

Just sayin'! Not doing a great job representing the EAs! Same goes for the Shelbourne auctions, all that did was highlight that people are willing to buy if the price is right. With the headlining props on offer there at 75% off and the average prop going for more than half-off the peak price its hardly astounding that things sold (the fact that they didnt sell them all is what I found interesting!). Also, most were investment properties, so basically folks with cash wanting more cash via the property market, deja-vu?

leonidas83 · 11-08-2011 10:51am

swirlser wrote: »

I dont want to sound like too much of an A-hole here, since I dont believe you posted with the intent of causing me aggravation. But you should know that if you are going to weigh in and try give this thread a little balance, at least have the decency to read it first!

You refer to ME as being the purchaser (twice), it was my friend! This isnt a my-"friend"-has-this-embarrassing-problem. This actually was my friend! Also you mention its my first home....? Where are you getting this information from?!

Just sayin'! Not doing a great job representing the EAs! Same goes for the Shelbourne auctions, all that did was highlight that people are willing to buy if the price is right. With the headlining props on offer there at 75% off and the average prop going for more than half-off the peak price its hardly astounding that things sold (the fact that they didnt sell them all is what I found interesting!). Also, most were investment properties, so basically folks with cash wanting more cash via the property market, deja-vu?

Sorry didnt mean to cause offence, i was on the lash all last night and details are not my finest point this morning. All the best to your friend with their new home

jester77 · 11-08-2011 11:04am

What's the average rate that an estate agent in Ireland receives?

Here in Germany, the buyer pays the agent ~6% of the selling price for most properties.

leonidas83 · 11-08-2011 11:09am

jester77 wrote: »

What's the average rate that an estate agent in Ireland receives?

Here in Germany, the buyer pays the agent ~6% of the selling price for most properties.

Its usually between 1% and 2.5% depending on the agreement you have made with the agent

D1stant · 11-08-2011 11:37am

leonidas83 wrote: »

Its usually between 1% and 2.5% depending on the agreement you have made with the agent

And that might be the answer. 1% versus 6% mean they dont give a ****e

djmcr · 11-08-2011 9:38pm

D1stant wrote: »

And that might be the answer. 1% versus 6% mean they dont give a ****e

But to make money be it 1% or 6% they still need to sell the house so they should give a ****e

swirlser · 11-08-2011 10:36pm

djmcr wrote: »

But to make money be it 1% or 6% they still need to sell the house so they should give a ****e

True true

It is mind boggling that in this Market people are still having to chase EAs. Its funny, I actually remember saying to someone that this country needs a recession after wasting most of the day trying to sort some viewings. I thought it would be nice to see them actually respond when a genuine customer comes calling, well we've been in the **** for several yrs and that's still not happened.

the groutch · 11-08-2011 10:56pm

site worth looking at if you're buying/selling and want to avoid EAs

http://www.privateseller.ie/

and before anyone asks, no I'm not affiated with the site

Supercell · 12-08-2011 1:00am

Went to view a place today. Quite a lot of peoples showed up to view it as it was the first showing.
I overheard the estate agent telling another punter that the seller wanted 300k but she persuaded them to put it on the moorket for oooooooonly 260k (clearly small change in her mind), strongly implying that any bids less than the advertised asking wouldnt be entertained.

I had to pinch myself, had we just gone through a time warp back to 2007?

It really put me off bidding I have to admit. The house isn't worth anywhere near 300k nor 260k either, maybe 230-240k today and 200-220 this time next year, I get the distinct impression she doesnt want to sell it for "less than its worth" either, quite fascinating to see this mentality alive and kicking in 2011. I suppose the vendor and the estate agent will chase the market down for the foreseeable unless she get a sucker with more money than sense.

swirlser · 12-08-2011 8:35am

It's their job to sell! She's hardly gonna say "thank god ppl showed up, isn't the Market terrible, any bids considered"

Can't possibly stress enough - once you walk into a property you need to filter the ea into the White noise section of your brain. If u liked the place and want to make an offer, make one ur happy with and don't be put off by what the ea said. If it's turned down, so what, you are no worse off.

As in the original story, if my friend had of been put off by that a-hole ea who laughed off his offer, he wouldn't have gotten the keys to that very place the other week for less than the offer which was laughed off!

EDIT: Be fully prepared for her snootyness to make you try and feel she's doing you a favour by even speaking with you when you call and she'll probably sigh at your offer. Meanwhile she will contact the seller, say an offer has been made 20-30k below asking and in this Market should be taken seriously. I can't predict whether or not they accept that or if someone will come in 10k more, but just be confident yourself that the numbers you were speaking above do make good sense and it's the ea's job to try squeeze what they can. They might even say another offer was made just over yours, in which case walk away and don't be too surprised if you get a call next week saying they dropped out and your offer is accepted... It happens!

ShadowHearth · 12-08-2011 9:13am

Hmm interesting. I had a viewing myself yesterday. In fact, there were one more party that was viewing property with us at same time.

Thing is the house had a bid already, that other couple made a bid too. I took 1 day to decide if a want to bid.

Problem is property is amazing price even now is amazing too. Unfortunately it is making us to bud over our budget...

In all fairness I was not expecting to get in to bidding war against 2 more parties in 2011...

EA we dealing atm with is great. He took as twice to see properties after 18:00, he had no problem with that.

So far I was dealing with 4 EA. 3 of them were brilliant. Arranging viewings and getting information was super easy and fast. Very helpful and realistic with listed prices. They would tell me in front what sort of offers can get this property and not stupid listed prices that some owners force EA to put up. The ather EA was good too, but I did not had enough time to deal with him, so I can't say much about him.

I hear these horror stories, but I get very very lucky with EAs so far myself. There is defiantly good EA out there, but I bet there are good few idiots too.

Cunning Stunt · 12-08-2011 9:58am

swirlser wrote: »

There was some back and forth, and thanks to the fact that my friend had an offer accepted of 250k on the virtually identical property he actually got the 325k property at 245k!

Just a small question - If you make an offer on a house and it is accepted, are you not committing yourself to buying that property? How did your friend make an offer, have it accepted and then buy a different house? Is this OK practice? Justwould like to know for future...

leonidas83 · 12-08-2011 10:57am

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

Just a small question - If you make an offer on a house and it is accepted, are you not committing yourself to buying that property? How did your friend make an offer, have it accepted and then buy a different house? Is this OK practice? Justwould like to know for future...

No you are not commiting yourself to buying the property, you will be required to put down a deposit but this is refundable if you cant get finance from the bank or you change your mind. You are only committed once sale has been agreed and all relevant documentation is signed

swirlser · 12-08-2011 11:20am

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

Just a small question - If you make an offer on a house and it is accepted, are you not committing yourself to buying that property? How did your friend make an offer, have it accepted and then buy a different house? Is this OK practice? Justwould like to know for future...

He approached the owner of the other house days after having the offer accepted on the house with the cheaper list price. At that point things were only verbal, but buying a property takes months and people pull out all the time.

As far as it being OK practice, you shouldn't really be making an offer if your not genuinely interested in going through with it. My friend was prepared to buy that house, but would have preferred the 325 prop as the kitchen and back garden were already done to a high standard and it just meant less for him to do, so with nothing to lose and a bit of luck he called to the guys door to be greeted by the owner.

I wanted to share the story for a number of reasons, the biggest was the absolutely shocking (IMO) fact that the first ea rejected an offer without consulting the seller!! Also it's nice to share some real life stories, because you can read articles and have stats thrown at you all you like, but info on what things are really selling for are hopefully going to help others. Deals are there to be made.

For all we know that prop could have been sold for more if the ea priced it more competitively to begin with and actually kept on top of potential buyers, it's even possible someone else made an offer of more than 250 on it! And don't forget, anyone who had that in their saved ads will see it SOLD at 325k when the actual price paid was 245k

We need more transparency in this country!

Villa05 · 14-08-2011 9:15pm

leonidas83 wrote: »

Secondly I do agree that house prices will come down further, but I dont think the market is going to fall like some people are predicting, the value of propertes in general is usually determined by peoples wages and ability to pay, there is still a relatively high employment level in this country, peoples wages are not falling in a big way and we have one of the highest saving rates in the EU. There is still alot of money out there and we saw this at the auctions in Dublin not too long ago when there was que's out of the door at the Shelbourne.

Wrong, the value of properties is determined by the amount of mortgages issued to purchase property. Given that the banks are bust and that the IMF/EU insist on the banks being shrinked (which includes them selling off there profitable operations). The collapse in property prices will continue at high rates.

Savings rates are distorted as they include those that are paying down their loans faster than had been contractually agreed. Besides a savings rate of 13% is not excessive, it is prudent in my opinion.

Auctions in Dublin show that property is down 69% from peak. As these auctions continue to extract more capital from the savings pool, the collapse will accelerate as there little or no finance available to support extortionate prices.

When this all plays out, I suspect foreign investors will come in to pick up property for a song.

A buyers story - The joys of dealing with estate agents!

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