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01-05-2011, 12:15   #1
wylo
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Do you believe a 'you' exists?

Just wondering what are peoples thoughts on this. I recently had a permanent shift in perception in my mind. The 'me' no longer exists. It is gone, there is no me, just my brain, my body, my thoughts, but no me , no ego.
This was not just an intellectual understanding or acknowledgement, but a true seeing and knowing, basically a realization.

The concept of a self is something that we have created through our behaviour, use of language, our methods of feeding individual identity into someone from a young age.
But the truth is there is no controller, its just this body that is typing this existing in the Universe. It is liberating tbh.
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01-05-2011, 13:44   #2
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Originally Posted by wylo View Post
The concept of a self is something that we have created through our behaviour, use of language, our methods of feeding individual identity into someone from a young age.
But the truth is there is no controller, its just this body that is typing this existing in the Universe. It is liberating tbh.
Is the body not in control of itself then? Are you your body? Is your body free?

Personally, I don't think there exists a 'self' in any real sense of the word.

The self is basically an idea you have about your body, mind, memories etc... You piece it all together and think you have a unified whole, but in reality there is no such whole. It is a fiction of the mind. You are free to reinterpret this idea whenever and however you want, within certain limits. It's difficult enough though, through force of habit, because you retain many ideas about yourself unwittingly.

That said, it is a necessary fiction. Without a unified sense of self you would not be able to function in the world. Regardless of whether you identify this self as a body, mind, consciousness, body-mind etc...
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01-05-2011, 16:26   #3
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Is the body not in control of itself then? Are you your body? Is your body free?
The body is in control of itself, brain functions carry out movement based on decisions in the brain. There is no 'me' or controller. I have completetly eliminated it, I cant even imagine a self now.
This is called 'enlightenment'. I dont like that word as it sounds spiritual but thats what it is. Its when you see reality for the first time not through the perception of self.
My mind is in deep piece now, no ego, no inner chatter, no self, no me, just my body, just clarity, real emotions (good or bad), real thoughts and acceptance of existence.

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Personally, I don't think there exists a 'self' in any real sense of the word.

The self is basically an idea you have about your body, mind, memories etc... You piece it all together and think you have a unified whole, but in reality there is no such whole. It is a fiction of the mind. You are free to reinterpret this idea whenever and however you want, within certain limits. It's difficult enough though, through force of habit, because you retain many ideas about yourself unwittingly.
Excellent ,so you have the concept 100% correct, in theory you can acknowledge this, seeing it for the first time is entirely different though but anyone can do it with a bit of work. You can remove the self from your mind. You need to ask where is that self? Can you physically find it? You need to look at a real object like a laptop, observe its realness and physical matter, then go back and find the self. Its just fiction as you say , its an illusion , it doesnt exist in real life.

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That said, it is a necessary fiction. Without a unified sense of self you would not be able to function in the world. Regardless of whether you identify this self as a body, mind, consciousness, body-mind etc...
Absolutely untrue, why does you body need some sort of extra controller? I am free from the self, and I am carrying out my normal business as usual, just with true 100% focus, and piece of mind. No distractions, no self interpreting things incorrectly, basically seeing reality for the first time.

A self is an illusion that is a hindrance to humans. Animals dont have this hindrance, maybe zoo monkeys and pet dogs/cats to an extent, but very little overall compare to humans.
Reality is much simpler and clearer without the self. Life is simple without it. You dont look for answers you simply accept existence for what it is. Blissful is a bit of an exaggeration but nice? Yes.

I dont want to come across like a spammer, but heres my blog if your interested. http://theselfisfalse.blogspot.com/
You have the concept down which is good. I cannot even tell this to family because they'll think Ive gone mad.

I am only writing this in philosophy as people here are open minded to the concept and also have not devoted their lives to other beliefs. This argument is harder to get through to Buddhists/spiritualists (I tried) because they belief the self can only be removed from a lifetime of meditation, they think enlightenment takes a life time of work, mine was removed within about 2 and a bit weeks. I had no interest in any of this prior to that.

Last edited by wylo; 01-05-2011 at 16:28.
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01-05-2011, 16:34   #4
 
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Without a unified sense of self you would not be able to function in the world. Regardless of whether you identify this self as a body, mind, consciousness, body-mind etc...
Very few species have the idea that 'self' exists. Most of living organisms are living naturally, peacefully without it.

Animals which could have the 'self virus' are listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

Last edited by unenlightened1; 01-05-2011 at 16:36.
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01-05-2011, 17:03   #5
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Nonsense

Quote:
Originally Posted by wylo View Post
Just wondering what are peoples thoughts on this. I recently had a permanent shift in perception in my mind. The 'me' no longer exists. It is gone, there is no me, just my brain, my body, my thoughts, but no me , no ego.
This was not just an intellectual understanding or acknowledgement, but a true seeing and knowing, basically a realization.

The concept of a self is something that we have created through our behaviour, use of language, our methods of feeding individual identity into someone from a young age.
But the truth is there is no controller, its just this body that is typing this existing in the Universe. It is liberating tbh.
Wylo, I'm all for enlightenment but I think you might be getting ahead of your'self' there bud.
If you 'don't have a self' as you so eloquently put it, what prompted you to come on here and blather on about it.
If you have no ego, then why do you have such a selfish need to come on here and declare it to the world.
Without the ego - you are without motive.
Without a sense of self, I'm afraid you would be quite mad.
Without self/ego, whatever you want to call it, then what is pondering these big questions?
Stick with it there my good man,
who knows, maybe another week or two will do it!!
Keep us posted!
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01-05-2011, 17:15   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wylo
There is no 'me' or controller. I have completetly eliminated it, I cant even imagine a self now.
wylo, I believe you truly see that there is no you,
but, I think what you want to tell is that you're not attached to your ego, because there is no one who could be attached to it 'your' ego still exists (as a fiction/idea but exists) I read many posts on Ruthless Truth about 'liberation' and no one of the liberated said, that they 'can't imagine a self now', I mean... what do you see when you look in the mirror?
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01-05-2011, 17:26   #7
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Originally Posted by unenlightened1 View Post
Very few species have the idea that 'self' exists. Most of living organisms are living naturally, peacefully without it.

Animals which could have the 'self virus' are listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test
Yes, but to function as a person.
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01-05-2011, 17:32   #8
 
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Iam on a higher astrel plain of of consiousness
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01-05-2011, 17:32   #9
 
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Yes, but to function as a person.
why do you think so?
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01-05-2011, 17:39   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wylo View Post
My mind is in deep piece now, no ego, no inner chatter, no self, no me, just my body, just clarity, real emotions (good or bad), real thoughts and acceptance of existence.
Well done!

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Excellent ,so you have the concept 100% correct, in theory you can acknowledge this, seeing it for the first time is entirely different though but anyone can do it with a bit of work. You can remove the self from your mind. You need to ask where is that self? Can you physically find it? You need to look at a real object like a laptop, observe its realness and physical matter, then go back and find the self. Its just fiction as you say , its an illusion , it doesnt exist in real life.
Thanks for being so condescending

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Absolutely untrue, why does you body need some sort of extra controller? I am free from the self, and I am carrying out my normal business as usual, just with true 100% focus, and piece of mind. No distractions, no self interpreting things incorrectly, basically seeing reality for the first time.
So are you saying that before your enlightenment there did exist an extra controller?
But wasn't your body just always in control of that self anyway? You just didn't know it yet.

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I am only writing this in philosophy as people here are open minded to the concept and also have not devoted their lives to other beliefs. This argument is harder to get through to Buddhists/spiritualists (I tried) because they belief the self can only be removed from a lifetime of meditation, they think enlightenment takes a life time of work, mine was removed within about 2 and a bit weeks. I had no interest in any of this prior to that.
Buddhism and spiritualism have their own very unique things to offer. I haven't practiced them for a lifetime, so I could not say, but what little I have done has been very interesting.

I'm happy for you.

All the best.
AD
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01-05-2011, 17:41   #11
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why do you think so?
How about I come over to your house and take "your" computer?
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01-05-2011, 18:27   #12
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If you truly believe what you are saying then who is this "I" you refer to, how is it "Your" brian, body e.t.c? How can you feel emotions and how can you define good or bad?

I understand and somewhat agree with the whole we are all the universe buzz but to say that there is no I is just incorrect, the animals live without it because they have no understanding of it. We are all different and hence are individuals.

Last edited by Boroimhe; 01-05-2011 at 18:38. Reason: Twas a bit strong
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01-05-2011, 19:11   #13
 
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Interesting thread... This is related to a (rather rambley) post I made in another thread...

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Presumably we're all pretty sure it's physical

But I've been thinking a bit lately, and I'm finding it hard to articulate what I'm thinking Basically I'm thinking that when people say stuff like "you're lucky to be here", and talk about how if your dad pulled out a couple of seconds earlier you wouldn't exist. I'm not sure there is a unique "you" (woah, deep...). There's certainly a combination of different genes and things that make you look how you do, and that contribute to your personality and other things, but what we think of as "us" is pretty much just the sum total of our memories and experiences, as opposed to us being born with a unique combination of characteristics, which we then use as a vessel for navigating through life experiences, which are completely seperate from who we are. What we think of as our unique make-up and perspective is really only an illusion, and someone only really becomes "who" they are by having experiences.

Does that make any sense? I've heard mention of the "illusion of free will", but I don't think I read much about it, so have I just unconsciously regurgitated something I got from somewhere else?
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01-05-2011, 19:19   #14
 
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If you truly believe what you are saying then who is this "I" you refer to, how is it "Your" brian, body e.t.c? How can you feel emotions and how can you define good or bad?

I understand and somewhat agree with the whole we are all the universe buzz but to say that there is no I is just incorrect, the animals live without it because they have no understanding of it. We are all different and hence are individuals.
Not sure why you say that... Don't animals have personalities, feel emotions, etc.? Anyone who has a pet dog will tell you that they do! That we are capable of some mental/cognitive tasks that animals aren't is not really evidence of anything. It could be just an emergent feature of having a greater number of synapses (some species has to have the most don't they?), and anyway some other species are capable of cognitive tasks that humans can't achieve, eg. remembering long and complicated routes hundreds of miles long, only resting part of the brain at a time (dolphins do this so that they can swim at the same time), and so on.
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01-05-2011, 20:18   #15
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Wylo, I'm all for enlightenment but I think you might be getting ahead of your'self' there bud.
If you 'don't have a self' as you so eloquently put it, what prompted you to come on here and blather on about it.
If you have no ego, then why do you have such a selfish need to come on here and declare it to the world.
Without the ego - you are without motive.
Without a sense of self, I'm afraid you would be quite mad.
Without self/ego, whatever you want to call it, then what is pondering these big questions?
Stick with it there my good man,
who knows, maybe another week or two will do it!!
Keep us posted!
My motive is to share this with people because it is very very difficult to keep it yourself, and whats worse is the fact most people dont understand. People in this forum do though, because they are philosophers. There was nothing selfish about it, I just didnt want to come and say "Look at me look at me, im enlightened", bla bla. A fail on my part because thats exactly what I did in the end. Sorry
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