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The Pick Up Artist!

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  • 05-11-2009 3:59pm
    #1
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭


    Ok first Of I'd like to point out his thread is nothing to do with chat up line's.

    Ladies, I realise this in some case's can be very difficult to read as you are the target of these people Please by no mean's take this as some thing I do or other men on this site.
    We may hear from some of them we may not.
    If any one considers themselves to be a pick up artist then please say something it would be interesting to hear your point of view.
    Its not about talking about how great these guys are but I feel its an interesting topic to post. It does hold quite a fine line on many different levels but none the less give us your opinions to.

    Pick Up Artists!
    Wildly acclaimed by many men on this small planet from New York to Japan, Sweden, England, France and to a degree Ireland.

    So what are your opinions of them? Do you believe in what they can do or thinks it’s just a hopeless scam? The history of the Pick Up artist originates from the 1970s I believe when a group of guys got together and started printing these papers about how to pick up women. This is loosely gathered information.

    It died down shortly afterwards probably because the information highway was news papers magazines. Nowadays the information highway is so much more vast internet email forums websites everybody has access. From what was a group of a few 100 men, to now 1000s if not millions.
    So come 96 internet was working forums where being made people where gathering and The P.U.As found each other all with different methods,
    From forms of hypnosis to many other tactics all pretty questionable.

    People Like, Neil Struas, David Da Langalo, Mystery (maybe I should of put him first he might get a bit upset being last )...

    Recently I read the Book known as The Game while I found it pretty interesting in so many ways one thing I could not get over is how cringing some of the behaviour and tactics they used ( yeah I know I’m an (AFC) ).

    So I guess this is where I'm building my basis of when I was younger I did use advice from a site a previously named in the lads mag thread called askmen.com.

    While many people have already pointed out that their advice is monkey nuts the thing is that it’s worked. Maybe that’s just my ability to understand where they are coming from or I can pick out the peaces of information that make the most sense and applying it to my situation.

    While, many people can dismiss or knock this culture, the facts are there some of these men are millionaires some of the men who've gone to these lessons have been nothing more then poor in money no hopers and have gone on to become millionaires with beautiful wife and massive house's and done really well for them selves.

    So to a degree it socialised men who where never social before its brought them away from wow and into night clubs and learning how to engage in conversations with girls.
    My feelings are yes its got some good but also got some bad.
    So I’m not against it and I wouldn’t back it 100% because I think the life style is some what obsessive which isn’t healthy but the facts are there.
    With that I'm wondering what are your view's?


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    #2
    OldGoat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,633 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    Gentlemen & Guests, a word of caution here. Please note that this thread is going to be watched over closely by the Mods. Stay on topic. Respond to the post and not the poster. This is to be a discussion thread and NOT a free for all laughfest or anicdotal ramblings of past conquests and failings. Concider this the first warning. My hand is hovering over the 'infraction' button. Please, don't be my first 'Ban'.

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



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    #3
    Fajitas!
    Registered Users Posts: 16,624 ✭✭✭✭Fajitas!


    Two previous housemates of mine had that book 'The Game' which as far as I know, the whole pick-up artist thing comes from. Tbh, neither one of them had ANY hope with the fairer sex.

    I've heard lads talking about it both in real life and on forums. It all seems like a pile of sh*te to me - I don't want to have to play mindgames to pick a girl up. Way too much effort. And on the other side of that coin, I'd rather someone like me for the bit of a grumpy sod I can be, rather than for reading out some lines from a book.

    But then again, I've never read it (And probably won't), so I could be wrong.


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    #4
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    All I'm going to say is this.

    They may have beautiful wives and big houses, but ultimately it's all based on a very well-constructed farce (and don't try to kid yourself that it's not; the whole thing is about manipulation and figuring out how to appeal instead of just being who you actually are), and you gotta wonder if those women have anything going on in their heads to fall for the kind of stuff you're talking about.

    And I'm talking about pick up "artists" (manipulation is a craft now? wonderful) who go after women for mindless notches on a bedpost and bragging rights, I'm not talking about guys who are genuinely trying to find a real sense of confidence, because the latter would never use the term "pick up artist."

    Women are not a game and should not be played as such, anything teaching that this is what to do is just inherently wrong.

    /shrug.


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    #5
    Will
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭Will


    Few mates read it few years back, I was curious so they gave me a loan of it.

    I read about half way through and got bored/disgusted. It gives a clear set of instructions for guys on how to behave to increase their perceived social status, confidence and social skills. It's nothing more than just a facade though, and not the real person behind it at the end of the day.

    Personally speaking when I was younger I wasn't any good with women, in the sense of getting dates etc. Was a great friend to them and all that but lil or no luck in the girlfriend department. Changed in the last few years, maybe attributed to reading some of the book, but I think I just got more confident as a person and in myself.

    I think the book is good for lads with lil or no social skills as it gives them pointers, however I hate the way it objectifies women and treats them all the same. If the girl does x, it means y. If you do j, it conveys z. I learned some things in it, I won't lie but I take it with a pinch of salt.

    It's grand for reading on the bog tbh, nothing more. Anyone who takes it as gospel needs to wake up.


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    #6
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    liah wrote: »
    being who you actually are
    Some form of this phrase always pops up in this discussion.

    I know PUAs take it to extremes, but a lot of their tips are very useful for the guy who isn't very comfortable around other people. "Be yourself" is the worst possible advice to ever give to anyone who's shy. I think people who've been naturally confident all their lives just can't begin to understand.

    I find the whole area fascinating, and I do feel that some PUA stuff I've read has helped me develop a sense of confidence, though I wouldn't be into the lifestyle, personally.


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    #7
    Fajitas!
    Registered Users Posts: 16,624 ✭✭✭✭Fajitas!


    Actually, my first post might have been a bit negative - I would like to hear people who swear by it's opinions, and I'd really like if this didn't turn into a PUA-witchhunt.

    I know of at least one poster on Boards that swears by uses it, but I'm not going to name names lest it ruins all his chances with the lovely ladies of Boards.ie he dosn't want it publically known.


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    #8
    Fajitas!
    Registered Users Posts: 16,624 ✭✭✭✭Fajitas!


    "Be yourself" is the worst possible advice to ever give to anyone who's shy.

    Why? So they can spell out a few lines from a book, pick up a girl, then when the deed's over and done with, they're back to being incredibly uncomfortable, and probably in a worse position than if they'd been themselves from the start. Some people like shy people. I'd like to think it all works out without making it a science...


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    #9
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Right, I said that was all I'd say, but apparently I lied.

    Everything's wrong about it; the poor guy being dragged into it thinking he has to turn himself into something he's not, acting confident yet becoming less so because he knows deep down it isn't really who he is, and that who he really is will apparently never attract anyone since now that he's become someone he isn't he has started to attract people; the women getting sucked into the whole "game" of it all, thinking they've met a genuine person who's really just living a total lie and probably just wants the notch; women being degraded into objects that have no brains and are only there to be "attained" or "picked up," and that all women are the same and wholly predictable.

    The fact that the term "artist" is used with this sort of stuff really grates on me. It's not a damn craft, it's a fúcking farce.

    Humans aren't mathematical problems. Every person isn't going to react the same way. Every person isn't going to think the same way. Humans are an awful lot more complex than that, and it's upsetting that people out there who write books like those think it's really that easy. Do they not realize we have brains too?

    Can't help but wonder how happy they truly are with what they've become.

    I understand the shy guy thing but this PUA stuff is NOT the way to go to instil a real sense of self-worth.


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    #10
    OldGoat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,633 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    I've not read these and have only just heard of them in the last week or so.
    Would I be right in thinking that they are self-help books akin to Dateing for Dummies and that the whole premise behind them is about boosting the confidence of the (male)reader and are written by egotisticle authors?

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



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    #11
    Will
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭Will


    Just to clarify where i said;
    If the girl does x, it means y. If you do j, it conveys z.

    I meant that, as Liah pointed out, people aren't mathematical problems and you can look too far into body language and perceived cue's.


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    #12
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    liah wrote: »
    All I'm going to say is this.

    They may have beautiful wives and big houses, but ultimately it's all based on a very well-constructed farce (and don't try to kid yourself that it's not; the whole thing is about manipulation and figuring out how to appeal instead of just being who you actually are), and you gotta wonder if those women have anything going on in their heads to fall for the kind of stuff you're talking about.

    While i couldnt agree more with the above.

    Perfect exmple! minipulation to pull a woman is bye all means where i begin to switch of towards it I mean any body who has to use a tactic of the above well its quite a Lizzard lounge style of behavour. But none the less a
    tactic that they like to use. Well thats the thing women are out there having drinks theres a guy here whos saying all the right things to grab her attention, she can't peg him with in the first 5 minutes to weather he's a pick up lizzard or not.

    liah wrote: »
    And I'm talking about pick up "artists" (manipulation is a craft now? wonderful) who go after women for mindless notches on a bedpost and bragging rights, I'm not talking about guys who are genuinely trying to find a real sense of confidence, because the latter would never use the term "pick up artist."

    quite right most of these guys allways looked at the pretty girl and could never get any where, while the cool smooth relaxed well dressed soically comfortable man new how to attract women nuatrally these guys gotta fake it to whic i agree.
    liah wrote: »
    Women are not a game and should not be played as such, anything teaching that this is what to do is just inherently wrong.
    /shrug.

    Once again to the AFC, which is the pua's term for an averadge faustrated chump. women are a game in there eyes.....
    once again i agree but unfortunatlythis is what they do.


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    #13
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    OldGoat wrote: »
    I've not read these and have only just heard of them in the last week or so.
    Would I be right in thinking that they are self-help books akin to Dateing for Dummies and that the whole premise behind them is about boosting the confidence of the (male)reader and are written by egotisticle authors?

    http://www.bookrags.com/studyguide-the-game/plotsummary.html

    If you look to the left-hand bar, it gives you the titles of the chapters as well as a brief excerpt if you click on the chapter titles (which in fairness doesn't reveal a lot about the content.)

    Might give you an idea about it.

    "Dedicated to the thousands of people I talked to in bars, clubs, malls, airports, grocery stores, subways, and elevators over the last two years. If you are reading this, I want you to know that I wasn't running game on you. I was being sincere. Really. You were different."


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    #14
    Snowie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,048 ✭✭✭✭Snowie


    OldGoat wrote: »
    I've not read these and have only just heard of them in the last week or so.
    Would I be right in thinking that they are self-help books akin to Dateing for Dummies and that the whole premise behind them is about boosting the confidence of the (male)reader and are written by egotisticle authors?


    There selfhelp/how to attract the faier sex using ther own gargantuas methods as the way they develop women in being attracted to them.
    and yeah to adegree they can boost confidance but they premote you to change who you are as person in some ways brain wash you into a completely different person.... if you ask me. With the ending of becoming some what of a allround woman plaser in there eye's.


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    #15
    Warfi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 633 ✭✭✭Warfi


    I suppose the term Pick Up Artist makes me think of a man who views women as commodities, commodities to be picked apart and analysed. Now while the PUA technique might help a man get a woman into bed, I wouldn't imagine the relationship going any further beyond that because the man has treated the woman like a science and not as a person.

    So my capsule opinion-good for a roll in the hay and nothing more :)

    Why am I thinking of Miley?:pac:


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    #16
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    liah wrote: »
    Humans aren't mathematical problems. Every person isn't going to react the same way. Every person isn't going to think the same way. Humans are an awful lot more complex than that, and it's upsetting that people out there who write books like those think it's really that easy. Do they not realize we have brains too?
    Personally, I think humans are a lot less complex than you're making them out to be. In the grand scheme of things, most people behave similarly enough in social situations and are quite predictable. Every person isn't going to react the same way to every situation, but in most situations, the variance in reactions among most people is going to be quite small. It goes against a romanticized view of humanity that suggests we're all greatly unique, but our brains are all wired the same way, we can't be all that different.

    People hate reducing things to maths and science, I don't quite know why. You can apply maths and science to anything, there are no magical things in life you can't analyse in such a fashion.


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    #17
    miss_feminem
    Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭miss_feminem


    From personal experience I absolutely hate when people (both men and women) try to play mind games to get what they want.

    I am fascinated with psychology but I don't think it should be used to manipulate people. I'd rather be with someone who can be themselves around me and who I can be myself around. If I felt that I had to put on a charade for my other half, I wouldn't be with him and I assume vice versa.


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    #18
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    Herbal Deity wrote: »
    People hate reducing things to maths and science, I don't quite know why. You can apply maths and science to anything, there are no magical things in life you can't analyse in such a fashion.

    Is your name Sheldon?


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    #19
    dblennon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 185 ✭✭dblennon


    I always wonder why there is such a negative view of the PUA thing,

    I for one Have looked into it and it did help me in social situations and far from it being about manipulating and "faking a personality" I found it open minded and full of helpfull hints.

    The lingo and the descriptions in The Game are all part of the sales pitch for "mystery Method", which is largely defunct at this stage because it was never goin to last, just using rehearsed lines to attract women.

    the biggest things i've learned from looking into the area are these.

    1. I have no chance in hell of scoring a girl I find attractive if I don't go over and have a conversation.

    2. Women react much more on their emotional state than anything else,

    3. If you get blown off by a women it has no reflection on you, and why should it, she doesn't know who you are and has made a decision in a moment we are all constantly doing this!!

    4. and finally it gave me the ability to recognise if a women is interested and how to enjoy chatting to girls for the fun of it rather than needing, hoping or expecting it to go anywhere.

    I will say that in general I wasn't terrible socially or with girls I just thought it was interesting so I read into it a bit more.

    Mods I don't know if I can say this so feel free to remove:
    the best thing I ever downloaded was a torrent called "super systems" by Tyler durden its the audio collection from his DVD.


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    #20
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    dblennon wrote: »
    I always wonder why there is such a negative view of the PUA thing,

    I for one Have looked into it and it did help me in social situations and far from it being about manipulating and "faking a personality" I found it open minded and full of helpfull hints.
    +1

    I reckon a lot of people have made their minds up that it's manipulative and "fake" before even looking into it and figuring out what it's about.


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    #21
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    liah wrote: »
    Is your name Sheldon?
    Nope.

    Your name must be Candy, because you're so sweet. :)


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    #22
    Fajitas!
    Registered Users Posts: 16,624 ✭✭✭✭Fajitas!


    Herbal Deity wrote: »
    Your name must be Candy, because you're so sweet. :)

    What page was that on again?

    :pac:


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    #23
    OldGoat
    Registered Users Posts: 12,633 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    liah wrote: »
    Is your name Sheldon?
    Herbal Deity wrote: »
    Nope.

    Your name must be Candy, because you're so sweet. :)
    Fajitas! wrote: »
    What page was that on again?

    :pac:
    Keep it on topic. Chat elsewhere.

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



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    #24
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    OldGoat wrote: »
    Keep it on topic. Chat elsewhere.

    Sorry, it wasn't really chat, it was kind of a joke-- Sheldon is a character from a tv show called Big Bang Theory who overanalyzes things and turns everything into some kind of equation or science.

    Was sorta on topic.. but I'll drop it now. :p


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    #25
    scanlas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭scanlas


    I think a lot of people don't want to believe that almost any man can transform from terrible with women to great with women if he is willing to learn and go through the tough process. I think it messes with their belief systems. It's a lot like the creationists who don't want to believe in evolution, they rationalize away the evidence or pretend it isn't there.

    Or if they do accept it makes you better with women they say you must therefore be manipulating them or not "being yourself" and relationships won't work because of it.

    Forget about "The Game", it's antiquated. Check out modern teachings such as "The Blueprint". The PUA community is the only resource which actually worked in making me confident ( The Blueprint mainly). What I like about a lot of the modern (post 2008) literature is that it looks at the realities of life and finds solutions as opposed to mainstream advice which is not fully based on reality, it's at least partly based on how people want things to be, not how they actually are. Not accepting the harsh realities of life is widespread, anyone who can see the realities of life can benefit as described by Robert Green in "The 50th Law".

    The truth of the matter is most people aren't being themselves all the time. They are playing out a role of who they think they are through their self image ( Described quite brilliantly by Eckhart Tolle in "A New Earth"). I am now more myself and authentic than ever before thanks to the PUA community.


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    #26
    trout
    Registered Users Posts: 9,925 ✭✭✭trout


    "modern teachings" :confused:


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    #27
    scanlas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭scanlas


    trout wrote: »
    "modern teachings" :confused:

    post january 2008


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    #28
    theganster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37 ✭theganster


    I can tell you from a lot of experience, this stuff works. But you can't just read the game and suddently turn into Charlie Harper, its requires a significant change in the way you do things - but honestly, as much as I wish these techniques don't work, if used prioperly, they do.

    I used to be absolutely hopeless with women. Well, actually, I had more beautiful women friends that any guy you'll know, but rarely scored any of them. This went on for years. I finally delved into this scene and it turned my life around. Most of the time I would have to do the complete oppasite to what my gut instinct told me to, but it would work out. Women will deny that many of the techniques work - and actually it saddens me that women respond the way they do, but that's just how they are wired. The psychologyu behind it is actualy very interesting.

    Over the next year or so I turned myself into a bit of a legend between my friends - and had a lot of fun. It really is a Game. People really could not understand how I turned it round so quickly with women. I lad lots of fun with loads of different women, dating etc. Now i'm happy to say I met an amazing beautiful women and we've very happy together, and I can be my normal genuine nice kind self with her, and it goes great - but I could probably say that if I had met her a few years ago, she probably would not have been interested in me.

    I highly recommend that any guy give this a real look. Read the Game first, then look into David DeAngello and Ross Jeffries. Ross Jeffries is more like 'tricking' a girl to like you, whereas David Deangello is more like becoming more of the man that women are attracted to.


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    #29
    liah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,750 ✭✭✭liah


    At the risk/assurance of getting myself banned here, how the hell do you not feel like a complete sleazebag?


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    #30
    Herbal Deity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭Herbal Deity


    Define sleazebag.

    He was hopeless with women, changed his approach based on reading some books, and it worked out for him. He had fun, no one got hurt. What's the issue?

    I think you have a narrow and skewed view of what PUA techniques actually consist of. While there exist PUA methods which consist of essentially memorizing lines and acting, this is not the whole picture. Most of it is simply confidence tips and tips on how to talk to women, how to conduct oneself in the social situation of chatting up a woman etc.


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    #31
    Will
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,183 ✭✭✭✭Will


    Let's try be civil ladies and gentlemen :)

    If you would mind editing your post to something more polite Liah that'd be awesome.

    The other mods have given warnings already, we're trying to be observant because this thread has the potential to be oh so volatile. Let's try keep it polite, otherwise we will be forced to infract, ban and just close what could be a very interesting thread.


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