The Pick Up Artist!

CDfm

OldGoat wrote: »

:eek:

I haven't been that exposed to burlesque and would welcome the experience.

Where can I get my scorecard:p

drunken_munky52

They do not refer to themselves as "pickup artists" but maybe you have branded them this way. They consider themselves "dating gurus".

Its not that hard to understand these guy's mindsets. What many people think is that they use psychological tools to manipulate women. Sure they may have had put on an act and use these tools at the begining, but it becomes instinct eventually.

Do we think that they are making men not be themselves? We often hear the traditional view that its important to be yourself, but tell that to the many 40 year old virgin men out there who have spent thier entire life beleiving this.

There is a crisis in manhood these days, its important to have strong men in society. If giving these guys some tips and tricks helps them get laid, thus making them better men, then I say cheers to the players!

opinion guy

trout wrote: »

germane

Wow I learned a new word:)


My take on all this is possibly a little different. What makes men good at picking up women, or women good at picking up men, or men at running the marathon, or women at playing the violin, or dogs at catching a ball, or cats at catching a mouse is very, very simply down to two things - practice and experience. I've heard it said if you want to be a master at anything, regardless of what it is you need 10,000 hours of practice.

My issue with this PUA stuff, is that it preys on low-confidence men, feeds them a whole pile of pseudoscientific mumbojumbo under the guise of which it tells them to go out and practice, in the process convincing them its the PUA mumbojumbo that makes them good at pulling when in actual fact its just the practice. All's the while the PUA guru's are making money selling their books. Furthermore it inducts the men in with its 'success' into believing in the "system", thus disenfranchising these men from the realisation that they actually did this themselves and turning them into advocates for the system selling more books for the guru. As almost a sideeffect of all this it also encourages these men to see women as automatons who will fall for their"techniques", when in actual fact the ladies are falling for the fact that thru experience these guys have actually learned some genuine charm and interesting conversation. IMHO its up there with alot of new age self helps 'therapies' and even shares some traits with scientology's auditing process.

IMHO its akin to brainwashing and disenfranchises the men that buy into whilst simultaneously objectifies women and making some guys alot of money (oh and I think its entirely possible these guru's buy into their own bull****)

theganster wrote: »

I can tell you from a lot of experience, this stuff works.

I rest my case.

Thought Bubble

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Some form of this phrase always pops up in this discussion.

I know PUAs take it to extremes, but a lot of their tips are very useful for the guy who isn't very comfortable around other people. "Be yourself" is the worst possible advice to ever give to anyone who's shy. I think people who've been naturally confident all their lives just can't begin to understand.

I find the whole area fascinating, and I do feel that some PUA stuff I've read has helped me develop a sense of confidence, though I wouldn't be into the lifestyle, personally.

To a point, I do agree with you. If someone is by nature shy or is easily intimidated talking to women, 'be yourself' really is terrible advice. It's kind of counter productive isn't it, if 'yourself' finds it hard to strike up conversations, and is more a people watcher, then pick up artist.

In saying that though, it is equally hard to maintain a dual personality if you try adopting a stance, piont of view or 'personality' that isn't you. The 'real you' has to make an apperance at some point.

And just in general, as a wimminz, any self assured, clued in woman will spot a PUA a mile away and avoid like the plague. Any man who thinks this sh*t works - your kidding yourself. Most women only believe what they want to believe, your not 'convincing' them of anything. For those of you who think this technique 'works', what kind of women are you picking up that fall for this cr*p?

There is a lot to be said for confidence building / boosting excercises, for personal development skills that help you speak more comfortably to women etc. Hell there's even a place for relaxation / meditation techniques that helps relax you in group situations. And there is a hell of a lot to be said for honesty when dealing with the opposite sex.

But I honestly don't believe this guide (or it's even poorer relatives) does that. Like a previous poster said, it preys on those vulnerable enough to seek out this type of help, offering pseudo scientific pop psychology as 'fact'. Everyone has the right to look and ask for help with what I would call 'life skills', but this isn't the way to do it.

RANT OVER !!!

scanlas

Thought Bubble wrote: »

To a point, I do agree with you. If someone is by nature shy or is easily intimidated talking to women, 'be yourself' really is terrible advice. It's kind of counter productive isn't it, if 'yourself' finds it hard to strike up conversations, and is more a people watcher, then pick up artist.

In saying that though, it is equally hard to maintain a dual personality if you try adopting a stance, piont of view or 'personality' that isn't you. The 'real you' has to make an apperance at some point.

And just in general, as a wimminz, any self assured, clued in woman will spot a PUA a mile away and avoid like the plague. Any man who thinks this sh*t works - your kidding yourself. Most women only believe what they want to believe, your not 'convincing' them of anything. For those of you who think this technique 'works', what kind of women are you picking up that fall for this cr*p?

There is a lot to be said for confidence building / boosting excercises, for personal development skills that help you speak more comfortably to women etc. Hell there's even a place for relaxation / meditation techniques that helps relax you in group situations. And there is a hell of a lot to be said for honesty when dealing with the opposite sex.

But I honestly don't believe this guide (or it's even poorer relatives) does that. Like a previous poster said, it preys on those vulnerable enough to seek out this type of help, offering pseudo scientific pop psychology as 'fact'. Everyone has the right to look and ask for help with what I would call 'life skills', but this isn't the way to do it.

RANT OVER !!!

It certainly works if applied correctly. Pick up artistry isn't about deceipt, dishonesty or pretending to be someone else. It's about taking on good habits and learning skillsets.

Snowie

scanlas wrote: »

It certainly works if applied correctly. Pick up artistry isn't about deceipt, dishonesty or pretending to be someone else. It's about taking on good habits and learning skillsets.

are you yoda ?

Herbal Deity

scanlas wrote: »

Pick up artistry isn't about deceipt, dishonesty or pretending to be someone else. It's about taking on good habits and learning skillsets.

This.

opinion guy

Thought Bubble wrote: »

And just in general, as a wimminz, any self assured, clued in woman will spot a PUA a mile away and avoid like the plague.

Some of us non-pickup artist males can also spot them - well lets face it, they stick out like sore thumbs. I must admit - its kinda fun to spoil their game

RedXIV

Thought Bubble wrote: »

And just in general, as a wimminz, any self assured, clued in woman will spot a PUA a mile away and avoid like the plague. Any man who thinks this sh*t works - your kidding yourself. Most women only believe what they want to believe, your not 'convincing' them of anything. For those of you who think this technique 'works', what kind of women are you picking up that fall for this cr*p?

I'm sorry lass, and i respect your opinion on this and perhaps it doesn't fool you, I don't know you so I can't tell but I can tell you that there plenty of women that these things work for. As a believer that the majority of the information is directed at the individual, it'd be extremely difficult for anyone to detect that.

I've seen a good friend of mine use the stuff and succeed time after time. And he reckons that women that don't believe in it are the easiest to use it on. Now he wouldn't use a set group of lines or exact moves but he's definitely someone to watch in the night club

scanlas wrote: »

It certainly works if applied correctly. Pick up artistry isn't about deceipt, dishonesty or pretending to be someone else. It's about taking on good habits and learning skillsets.

this is true.

Herbal Deity

opinion guy wrote: »

Some of us non-pickup artist males can also spot them - well lets face it, they stick out like sore thumbs. I must admit - its kinda fun to spoil their game

Ever considered that you can only spot the bad ones?

scanlas

I've never noticed anyone using the canonical pick up material.A good pick up artist just looks and sounds like a good natural with women, if you can tell the difference they need more practice or to figure out what they are doing wrong.

CDfm

scanlas wrote: »

I've never noticed anyone using the canonical pick up material.A good pick up artist just looks and sounds like a good natural with women, if you can tell the difference they need more practice or to figure out what they are doing wrong.

But even a bad PUA only needs to get it right once and get a relationship.

By definition a sucessful PUA is unsucessful in relationships.

Herbal Deity

CDfm wrote: »

But even a bad PUA only needs to get it right once and get a relationship.

By definition a sucessful PUA is unsucessful in relationships.

Well, by definition, a PUA is one who does not desire a monogamous, long term relationship.

Most guys who put some PUA tips into practice aren't PUAs, they're, as you say, actually just looking for a relationship.

And at the end of the day, relationships thrive on how well suited a couple are. How exactly a couple hook up in the first place is quite meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

scanlas

CDfm wrote: »

But even a bad PUA only needs to get it right once and get a relationship.

By definition a sucessful PUA is unsucessful in relationships.

Jumping to conclusions here.

Some just want a relationship;

some want a series of one night stands;

some want a rotation of multiple open relationships;

some aren't even that bothered about a sexual relationship; they just find approaching and managing groups of people to be fun.

and I'm sure there are many other scenarios I haven't mentioned.

This topic brings a lot of people to jump to conclusions and see only the surface flashy stuff. The article below is a pick up article which will surprise people and challenge their perceptions of pick up. Although I disagree that jedward will win the X Factor.

http://www.rsdnation.com/ozzie/blog/can%E2%80%99t-sing-can%E2%80%99t-dance-have-no-talent

opinion guy

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Ever considered that you can only spot the bad ones?

scanlas wrote: »

I've never noticed anyone using the canonical pick up material.A good pick up artist just looks and sounds like a good natural with women, if you can tell the difference they need more practice or to figure out what they are doing wrong.

Ever heard of circular logic ?

oooohh opinion guy you spotted them, they must be bad so. hows many assumptions are roled up into that one I wouldn't even guess

liah

Every time I hear about this stuff, it just reminds me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n2IVF9a2IA

Herbal Deity

opinion guy wrote: »

Ever heard of circular logic ?

oooohh opinion guy you spotted them, they must be bad so. hows many assumptions are roled up into that one I wouldn't even guess

Well the educated assumption is that someone utilizing PUA techniques well will not appear to be obviously any different to any other guy 'on the pull' on a night out. One might speculate based on success or demeanour or even appearance, but they'd be far from standing out like sore thumbs.

scanlas

Or you could be using Richard "Gambler" La Ruina's new stealth system as introduce below.

http://stealthattraction.com/blog/the-stealth-tactics-video

Wibbs

Again the problem I have with this stuff, is not so much many of the conclusions reached, but what the "gurus" do with them afterwards. It's aimed at men that for the most part are of a type. Of course thats how you make the money. That type are the more shy retiring chaps. The more linear thinkers. The ones who like and need set structures or feel more comfortable with that.

The ones who arent that type it can work for. The general type involved it doesn't beyond having a "system" behind them that gives them the confidence to simply talk to more women. Which makes a big difference of course. The most IMHO.

Look at the guy i the last video. He's a good looking slim presentable kind of guy. yes he may have been a social dweeb before, but with self help he's moved beyond that. Cool but he is still more presentable than the average in a club and more than the average PUA follower. You can say this about most of the PUA guru types as a general thing.

This stuff for me is like the male version of celebrity womens fitness videos. Yes if you follow one you will lose weight and be healthier and get a better figure, you wont look like cindy crawford etc though. Not for the vast majority.

Even the guys on this thread that some of this stuff has worked for. RedXIV a good example. I've met the chap. Nice guy, good looking bloke too. If he was a wallflower and remained so, then yep he wouldn't have had as much success, but he would have had more success than some dumpy overweight bloke, no matter what the latter used as a pickup system.

Herbal Deity

Wibbs wrote: »

Even the guys on this thread that some of this stuff has worked for. RedXIV a good example. I've met the chap. Nice guy, good looking bloke too. If he was a wallflower and remained so, then yep he wouldn't have had as much success, but he would have had more success than some dumpy overweight bloke, no matter what the latter used as a pickup system.

Would he though?

You see hot women with ugly guys all the time.

scanlas

A PUA named Mehow is no oil painting, but I have hours of footage of him chatting up women successfully. Here he is below.

RedXIV

Wibbs wrote: »

Even the guys on this thread that some of this stuff has worked for. RedXIV a good example. I've met the chap. Nice guy, good looking bloke too. If he was a wallflower and remained so, then yep he wouldn't have had as much success, but he would have had more success than some dumpy overweight bloke, no matter what the latter used as a pickup system.

I humbly accept your most generous of compliments

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Would he though?

You see hot women with ugly guys all the time.

This is true, but as has been stated before, girls don't seem to dwell on looks as much as guys.

I think i can finally understand where Wibbs is coming from. Those that depend on a set bunch of rules will probably not get what they need from the more commercial aspects of the PUA community. I get that women would be unhappy about the reputation of the more sensational of PUA gurus, but i do think that the core elements are beneficial, even if they are psychological tricks into convincing people to practice more.

Herbal Deity

RedXIV wrote: »

i do think that the core elements are beneficial, even if they are psychological tricks into convincing people to practice more.

Heh, that's an interesting concept.

I wonder if, for some guys, PUA is the skeptical, modern day equivalent to giving them a "lucky sock" or a "lucky watch" which promises to give the wearer more confidence and success with the ladies

Wibbs

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Would he though?

You see hot women with ugly guys all the time.

I dunno. It's a cultural generalisation too. You dont see that many of them and most couples tend to be about the same in attractiveness to the opposite sex. As a package of course. In the case where it does happen, then other parts of the package are in play. The obvious ones are rich or socially powerful men. That is one advantage of being a man, looks re less important as a general rule.

trout

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Heh, that's an interesting concept.

I wonder if, for some guys, PUA is the skeptical, modern day equivalent to giving them a "lucky sock" or a "lucky watch" which promises to give the wearer more confidence and success with the ladies

For a time, there was a flurry of pendants and necklaces / medallions on the market ... these were impregnated in some vaguely scientific way with pheremones that would make women feel attracted to the person wearing the pendant. Apparently most women were powerless to resist. You could buy the pendant, and even "top-up" bottles of these magical pheremones by mail-order.

Anyone remember these ?

Wibbs

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Heh, that's an interesting concept.

I wonder if, for some guys, PUA is the skeptical, modern day equivalent to giving them a "lucky sock" or a "lucky watch" which promises to give the wearer more confidence and success with the ladies

I reckon that's part of it. Its a comfort blanket for the guy who needs structure. Thats a lot of men. It makes them feel in control and safe. Of course if they really want to get better at that stuff and life in general they need to let go of that comfort blanket. Many cant and never will though. Its how they're built as it were.

shellyboo

scanlas wrote: »

A PUA named Mehow is no oil painting, but I have hours of footage of him chatting up women successfully. Here he is below.

That man is not ugly by any stretch of the imagination. That woman, however, is a total mess.

Can we see some of the footage?

scanlas

shellyboo wrote: »

That man is not ugly by any stretch of the imagination. That woman, however, is a total mess.

Can we see some of the footage?

Here's another photo of him. Hardly good looking.

http://www.eseduce.com/wp-content/mehow-pua.jpg

and here's some footage of him;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV3RKHtkhZ4&feature=PlayList&p=4F844A27A4D0E388&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2l3fqHSjms&feature=PlayList&p=4CDDB7D198FE5F41&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Agst-tyVSGo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwVaXSLDpc8

CDfm

shellyboo wrote: »

That man is not ugly by any stretch of the imagination. That woman, however, is a total mess.

Can we see some of the footage?

Next you will want the name of the club:D

shellyboo

He's not debilitatingly unattractive, either. He's an average looking guy who can hold a good conversation - there is zero preventing that guy from getting a date. He doesn't need magic beans to do so.

I fail to see what's difficult, or new, or different about the way he's talking to those women. I would call that "having a conversation" with a side of "flirting". I understand that not all men are capable of this naturally, but why must the teaching of it be dressed up in manipulation, as if it's some sort of game? It gives the whole thing a bad name when really the skills being taught are normal, basic communication skills.