The Pick Up Artist!

minidazzler

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

So you've never once said oh my god, I'd love to get my claws around that ?

Probably have once, I used to be quite the eejit back when I was young.

However now, I look at a girl and think...That girl is gorgeous, I want to talk to her.

theganster

Kimia wrote: »

I think this is absolute bull, sorry. Cockiness in any shape or form turns me right off. We're not all the same.

I never said they were. Everyone is different, but if you are to Generalise, its mostly true. Women like guys with a bit of spark in them in general. I'm not talking cocky in a d1ckhead way, more in a confident, fun, charming way.

The best example I can give you - is if you have ever watched "2 and a Half Men" - Alan Harper vs Charlie Harper. Yes its a tv show but it proves a point. Alan is a kind gentle sensite guy who loves ad respects women, but lets them walk all over him. Gets him nowhere. Charlie is a (albeit totally over the top for tv) womaniser - but even though it is totally obvious to any women exactly what he is like - and despite the fact that they probaly should know better, they are still 10 times more attracted to Charlie than to Alan. This fact is what the basis for the entire tv series is based on - it's no coincidence

Snowie

minidazzler wrote: »

Probably have once, I used to be quite the eejit back when I was young.

stop taking the pi$$ you no you do I know you do and lots of other people no you do....

Your such a kidder mini. :pac:

minidazzler

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

stop taking the pi$$ you no you do I know you do and lots of other people no you do....

Your such a kidder mini. :pac:

OK, if you know me better than I do then.


I suppose PUA's know everyone better, that's why they are so damn successful.


[/sarcasm]

Snowie

minidazzler wrote: »

OK, if you know me better than I do then.

I know your a young man.

I know in another post you said you wanted a hot blonde with child raring hips and a supple pink ass. that would be classed as an object of desire meaning you look at women as an object in my books.
Ive read countless references to porn buy you amounst other things...

i know you have made no effort to reply to a post i quoted you about 3 pages back because you have nothing to input in the manor your basing everything on opinion and litttle fact and to be perfectly honest.

please prove im wrong.

scanlas

shellyboo wrote: »

Don't try to analyse me, scanlas, please. Let's not get personal.

It is everyone's right to judge how they see fit, sure... but I personally judge someone who judges solely on looks to be shallow and not worthy of my time, and certainly not worthy of being in a relationship with.

So then, to be fooled into thinking this guy, who's looking at me and thinking "she's a 3, low-self esteem, I'll go talk to her like xyz" is actually a nice, normal and decent guy makes me angry in the extreme. It is deception, pure and simple.

The main point I wanted to make is no one deserves to be perceived any way, it's none of your business how someone percieves you in their mind.

We all have different ways of speaking to different people. There are certain rules I follow speaking to my grandmother and certain rules I follow when I speak to my friends. I don't think about those rules in my head, they are internalized. It's not deceipt. That's what you should do with the PUA knowledge, internalize it. You can't go out on a night out with a million technical ideas in your head and be successful pulling the hottest women, you need to be in the moment. So you integrate the habits into your life so they naturally come out when you are chatting up women. For example, you walk with your head held high, look people in the eye and project your voice in all aspects of your life, it puts you in your head if you are thinking like that when out trying to chat up hot women which is not somewhere you want to be.

Anyway your initial impression of a woman isn't that important (it's usually wrong), what's more important is your interaction with her. A woman is always giving out indicators of interest or indicators of disinterest to a man chatting her up. Knowing how to deal with those situtions, moving things forward and understanding where you are in the interection is more important. ie social skills broken down well.

On the subject of PUAs seeing women as objects by treating them as if they are all the same (which most don't in my experience), a lot of women (and men) seem to be treating PUAs as objects by assuming they are all the same.

minidazzler

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

I know your a young man.

I know in another post you said you wanted a hot blonde with child raring hips and a supple pink ass. that would be classed as an object of desire meaning you look at women as an object in my books.
Ive read countless references to porn buy you amounst other things...

i know you have made no effort to reply to a post i quoted you about 3 pages back because you have nothing to input in the manor your basing everything on opinion and litttle fact and to be perfectly honest.

please prove im wrong.

Yeah, in another post I asked for a woman to fcuk, in a joking post!!

I saw you asking me to, but I am not going to justify it. Basically I am going on opinion there you are right. My opinions are based on what I have seen from the PUA scene, I have read the forums.

Frankly it all bores me.

I don't see women as objects, you need to realise that we don't think the same thoughts. I have to have chemistry with a girl (to sleep with her, anything else and I barely need attraction)

I can't prove you are wrong, because you are basing everything on an opinion you aren't willing to change. The same as I am.

We are at an Impasse.

Snowie

minidazzler wrote: »

I saw you asking me to, but I am not going to justify it. Basically I am going on opinion there you are right. My opinions are based on what I have seen from the PUA scene, I have read the forums.

Ok so it sok that you can pass an opinion with out even giving a reason. So does that mean all nice guys are lap dogs? and finish last?
This isnt just about formula's soically enginering a situation this is about wwhat they say what they write the advice they give its not about there mind set alone.

minidazzler wrote: »

I don't see women as objects, you need to realise that we don't think the same thoughts. I have to have chemistry with a girl (to sleep with her, anything else and I barely need attraction)

Then why did you say

That girl is gorgeous, I want to talk to her.

That is saying shes an object because bye saying shes hot your saying she meets your desires, I never mentioned anythign about sleeping with women!

minidazzler wrote: »

I can't prove you are wrong, because you are basing everything on an opinion you aren't willing to change. The same as I am.

I havent actually stated an opinion other then

Snow-Monkey wrote: »

My feelings are yes its got some good but also got some bad.

Feel free to see first post!

minidazzler wrote: »

We are at an Impasse.

Where not impasse you just dont seem to want to either under stand or take the time out to read and actualy gain enough knowlage what youve reada forum where guys talk about the conquests thats not exactly, a fair way to
judge things.

scanlas

Just because a man decides to approach a woman because she is hot doesn't mean that is all he looks for in a woman. That could just be one of many criteria such as sense of humour and confidence. But he'll never know about those aspects of the hot woman if he doesn't approach.

Also I don't see anything wrong only being intereseted in a woman's looks. A person is entitled to look for whatever traits they want in a potential partner. If a man is only interested in a woman who hunts deer and nothing else matters that is his decision. It's freedom of personal taste. It's not right or wrong.

Herbal Deity

shellyboo wrote: »

It is everyone's right to judge how they see fit, sure... but I personally judge someone who judges solely on looks to be shallow and not worthy of my time, and certainly not worthy of being in a relationship with.

Who says guys using PUA tips judge solely on looks?

shellyboo wrote: »

So then, to be fooled into thinking this guy, who's looking at me and thinking "she's a 3, low-self esteem, I'll go talk to her like xyz" is actually a nice, normal and decent guy makes me angry in the extreme. It is deception, pure and simple.

Who says guys using PUA tips think like this before approaching a girl?

It's not deception. Saying it's deception is like saying it's deception if an overweight person works really hard, loses weight and looks fantastic as a result, because it's not their "real", "natural" eating patterns and metabolism.

It's about learning how to have an attractive personality to women. Individual aspects of it are questionable, such as lying about who you are, taking it to extremes etc. I'll give you that, but the whole idea isn't sleazy or creepy or anything like that, it's simply shy/"nice" guys trying to improve themselves.

lee_

Unless you are totally 100% confident going up to ANY girl no matter how hot then I think every guy should download "real social dynamics" the mp3's are amazing, might change your life for the better a little.

It doesnt talk about stupid tricks that will probably fail but real psychological little changes that will make you more outgoing in front of hot girls

I just listen to it heading to the gym or to work...easy,

if you dont like it turn it off

[Mod Edit: I'm sure everyone who wants it will be able to find it for themselves.]

let me know what ye think

SLUSK

I think the so called PUA:s are preying on very vulnerable men, alot of these so called PUA:s aren't really that good and some are real fraudsters.

The obvious sollution is to drink alot and approach alot of females then sexy time will happen eventually.

If sexy time does not happen, well there is always the Bangkok option which I myself have tried once.

scanlas

SLUSK wrote: »

I think the so called PUA:s are preying on very vulnerable men, alot of these so called PUA:s aren't really that good and some are real fraudsters.

The obvious sollution is to drink alot and approach alot of females then sexy time will happen eventually.

If sexy time does not happen, well there is always the Bangkok option which I myself have tried once.

The ability to approach whoever you want and however you want and not care what people are thinking while you amuse yourself is the best feeling in the world. You are completely in the moment. Way better than sex.

Pyr0

The pick up artist thing is a bid stupid in my opinion, yeah it'll work on some people but on most I doubt it'd get anywhere.

Also, I see nothing wrong with approaching a girl if you think she's hot. How else are you going to get to know her ?

scanlas

Pyr0 wrote: »

The pick up artist thing is a bid stupid in my opinion, yeah it'll work on some people but on most I doubt it'd get anywhere.

This reminds me of creationists reasoning. The evidence is there that it works on pretty much everyone (not the game stuff, the modern stuff), it's beyond doubt, although not as far beyond doubt as evolution.

scanlas

I just read a pretty good article by a female journalist who sat in on a love systems seminar. Thought I'd post it here. I actually went to a free seminar by the two instructors in the article. They're cool guys.

http://www.sexinyourcity.com/sexmagazine?action=blog&task=entry&b=76

In the words of Nick Savoy, CEO of lovesystems. Repeating generalities is easy. Even telling people what to do is pretty easy. Coaching them on how to do it, with specific and actionable information is not.

RedXIV

scanlas wrote: »

I just read a pretty good article by a female journalist who sat in on a love systems seminar. Thought I'd post it here. I actually went to a free seminar by the two instructors in the article. They're cool guys.

http://www.sexinyourcity.com/sexmagazine?action=blog&task=entry&b=76

Just need every other woman on the planet to go to one of those and they might stop thinking PUA is all about objectifying women

OldGoat

RedXIV wrote: »

Just need every other woman on the planet to go to one of those and they might stop thinking PUA is all about objectifying women

You ARE objectifying women when you group them together into one generalised mass that needs lessons to understand how that men DON'T objectify women.

PeakOutput

right only read the first and last pages but im going to assume the rest of the thread is the same

i have read a good bit about this. never really done any of it personally but i know quite a few people who have. i read it coming form the point of view of if i dont understand something or i am having trouble with something then i have no problem exhausting all avenues to fix that problem, and i certainly dont understand women so thats were it started for me.

first of all the book 'the game' was not were this all started far from it. the creation of the internet is really were it all started

secondly from what iv read that book and the 'system' it preaches is old news and has evolved from then and is no longer about using pre rehearsed techniques(which was the main reason i never really picked it up and put it into practice)

thirdly obviously being a guy i couldnt resist trying somethings and in my limited experience they worked. they worked alot better in the states than in ireland but that could just be me

four. anyone in the 'commuity', as they call it iv spoken to is far from this massive sexual predator who dosnt give a **** about womens feelings far from it. they all profess to love and respect women and they decided to learn this stuff because they do but what they were doing was not attracting women

five. is it really a big deal if a shy retiring but smart person with no success with women reads into this stuff in an effort to improve his life and it works? he starts to meet the type of women he wants to meet and starts to have meaningfull relationships with people(people in general, the lads iv talked to have all greatly improved their general social circle)

six. people say its all a facade im sure for some of them it is and in the past thats kinda as far as it went, but now it seems they are focusing more on general self help and confidence building, it just so happens that they use psychology to improve peoples success with women which in turn improves confidence which in turn changes the people into the people they apparently want to be.

seven. i personally know 2 guys who, if they had twins and you put all four in a room one twin being the person he was before he found the 'community' and the other twin being who he is now i guaranteeeveryone here would find the post pick up twins more interesting more fun and the women would find them more attractive. are they putting on a facade? i dont think so, has it helped their lives? most certainly

finally i was going out with a girl when i started reading this stuff (having been introduced by my two mates who had read it) and i put some of the points to her and she thought about it and without fail she said that these techniques are things she feels attracts her without her knowing it weather people do it because it becomes naturally or not

PeakOutput

opinion guy wrote: »

Some of us non-pickup artist males can also spot them - well lets face it, they stick out like sore thumbs. I must admit - its kinda fun to spoil their game

go on enlighten us by telling us how you ruin their game? i guarantee you dont spot them all or even the vast majority of them. n the other hand i have been out with the two friends i mentioned ealier with friends of theirs and thought there friends were 'using game' from what they were doing and how they were acting when in fact this is just how they are naturally

Thought Bubble wrote: »

And just in general, as a wimminz, any self assured, clued in woman will spot a PUA a mile away and avoid like the plague. Any man who thinks this sh*t works - your kidding yourself. Most women only believe what they want to believe, your not 'convincing' them of anything. For those of you who think this technique 'works', what kind of women are you picking up that fall for this cr*p?

you are wrong having seen it work in many different countries and to a lesser extent having had it work you are 100% wrong. i dont have a huge amount of trouble with women in general which is probably the only reason i dont have the motivation to really learn this stuff but even the basics that are thought can be very usefull.

you asked what sort of women these people pick up? one is with a gorgeous actress i havnt met her yet so cant comment on how 'clued in' she is but she seems nice and the other has been seeing a gorgeous solicitor for around 4 months. neither are particularly ugly or particularly great looking one is in college and the other is a masters graduate form the most respected college in the world in its area.

And there is a hell of a lot to be said for honesty when dealing with the opposite sex.

much of what is said in these things is about being honest again you clearly dont know what your talking about. being honest is approaching a girl you like instead of standing in a corner wishing you had the balls to do it. when titles like pick up artist and dating guru and the lingo they use like 'target' 'chode' 'afc' are thrown around it is very easy for me to see why women think its an absolute joke )and i think all that crap is aswell) but the fact of the matter is the principles taught are sound and harmless and hurt no1 while potentially seriously improving the person learning them

Like a previous poster said, it preys on those vulnerable enough to seek out this type of help, offering pseudo scientific pop psychology as 'fact'.

i do agree with you there to a point. there are people who will never try this in the real world but will spend thousands reading up on it. you HAVE to strip away the marketing bull**** of the various companies that sell this stuff and personally as soon as i finished the game and googled info on it i made a promise to myself never to purchase one of these things and never to look up to the characters the business people portray themselves as.

however to dismiss it out of hand because someone has decided to market it and make money out of it is a bit close minded

edit; right iv finished reading the thread its clear that most people arent going to allow their minds to be opened towards it thats fine. the people playing it down as manipulation have absolutely zero idea what they are talking about. the game is the WORST possible place to start as far as finding information about this its a biography not a how to and its really old. having said that the author is a good example of someone who this can help he was and still is as far as i know a very well respected writer for hot press and the ny times and these methods changed his life for the better. if you are interested in it do your research and then comment if you are not interested fine but girls i guarantee you you will not notice someone using these techniques properly(especially in ireland) thats not to say you will jump into bed with them but you are not going to be able to say ' oh he has read the game or he is a pua' or whatever you jsut wont i would put money on it. neither can the lads who are talking ****e here. congratulations you are naturally successful with women, so am i, but i am not going to judge anyone or look down on anyone who is attempting to improve their lives be it misguided or not. if you need to type on the internet and make sracastic comments putting down people whoahve the balls to change then your the one with the problem imo

Valmont

liah wrote: »

(and don't try to kid yourself that it's not; the whole thing is about manipulation and figuring out how to appeal instead of just being who you actually are)

That's a bland generalisation. The game book does present the whole scene in this way but there is a lot more to it than putting up a farce and reading lines from a book. Some approaches are completely oriented towards being who you actually are and having the confidence to present yourself in an attractive way. Not every person on the PUA scene is a shallow liar.

I honestly thought it was a load of bollocks for the longest time until I went out with two friends in Dublin who had been practicing their "game". The way they worked the ladies still amazes me to this day. I don't have the cajones to put the work in so...meh... I'll stick with the occasional drunken slobbers that come my way from time to time.

PeakOutput

ye liah im sorry but you have no idea what your talking about

scanlas

Liah what PUA advice in particular is manipulative and explain how it's manipulative specifically not vaguely.

I see it mainly as learning confidence, social skills, understanding female psychology and how attraction works. Basically its teaching you skillsets. Can you explain how exactly it teaches you to be someone else? If changing from a shy person to confident is becoming someone else then I'm all for it. The cleverest tactics are no more manipulative than make up, high heels or a push up bra. At least with PUA you are changing yourself into permanently authentically more attractive person. With make up and heels you are faking it temporarily.