No right wing alternative= No alternative

paw patrol · 22-01-2020 12:38pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Renua are just right wing grifters.
Give me a socially conservative party that will hammer the rich and I'll vote for them.

I don't know if you can say that about Renua , they haven't had a shot at power yet to see how they'd get on.
They could be sh1te tbh but i'd like to see somebody with similar policies have a crack at it.

I don't get the hate for the rich tbh.

Cordell · 22-01-2020 12:42pm

well, because they are rich and we aren't

Although some of us may be by some ill informed standards.

ArmaniJeanss · 22-01-2020 12:45pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Thanks,

And yes I agree the media despise the right (not that we have one) and anything to do with nationalist politics.

Such a real shame people get nothing but left wing drivel from the media.

The media (print media) are perfectly entitled to show whatever bias they want.
The candidates/parties of the right need to gain enough support at ground level to make it impossible for them to be ignored. So far they've failed to do that.

To an extent that is on them, as they have failed to unite under one umbrella. Therefore we often have multiple candidates standing in one constituency when one solo candidate may have got enough votes to at least lay the ground-work for the next campaign.

Whether the support for the right exists or not is debateable. But don't blame the media here. There is a tradition worldwide of candidates being either ignored or vilified by their local media as they weren't part of the traditional political establishment but still managing to get a huge vote (Macron and Trump would be two recent big examples).
Maybe you have to face the prospect that the politic viewpoints you espouse aren't actually that widely popular.

The Nal · 22-01-2020 12:45pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

They aren't right wing at all!.

lol

banie01 · 22-01-2020 12:50pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Wasn't O'Higgins one of very few Cumann na nGaedheal members who wasn't fan of the European fascists? In fact Bill Gannon, spittle-flecked Commie and one of the gang that assassinated him, was openly "Francoist".

I shall have to scuttle of and read a little more then Jim.
The CnG was the incubator of much of Irish facism but I may need to clarify my own understanding there.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 22-01-2020 12:51pm

"Right-wing" covers a broad spectrum of beliefs, many of which conflict with one another.

Broadly, we have the nativist right, characterized by their blood-and-soil rhetoric and opposition to immigration. We have the religious right, characterized by their adherence to traditional church teachings and opposition to issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage. We have the free-market/libertarian right, which sees high taxes, an enormous welfare state, and numerous government monopolies as holding back individual potential and economic progress. Then we have those who are labeled right-wing for ridiculing so-called "woke" thinking around speech codes, safe spaces, preferred pronouns, gender-neutral bathrooms, etc.

There can be major differences of opinion between these groups. The free-market right generally welcomes immigrants while the nativist right wants to keep them out. A religious conservative might believe that allowing gays and lesbians to marry is immoral, while a libertarian might say that the government shouldn't intervene in the informed choices of consenting adults. A nationalist might believe that mandatory Irish should be enforced on all children, while a libertarian again might say that the choice of what languages to speak or learn should be up to individual parents and children.

So before you start calling for a "right-wing party," you have to define exactly what you mean by that. I don't believe there's all that much support in Ireland for the nativist or religious right positions. But the Progressive Democrats did very well for many years espousing economic and social liberalism, and there's a gap there that still hasn't been filled.

jimgoose · 22-01-2020 12:52pm

banie01 wrote: »

I shall have to scuttle of and read a little more then Jim.
The CnG was the incubator of much of Irish facism but I may need to clarify my own understanding there.

They liked the idea of law-and-order taken somewhat to extremes, but of course didn't know at the time where all that would end up. You had Eoin "Mad" O'Duffy's Blueshirts of course, a sort of paramilitary outfit that protected the pro-Treaty crowd from certain IRA bootboys, who modeled themselves on Mussolini's setup, including that dodgy salute. :pac:

WrenBoy · 22-01-2020 12:52pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Where do you stand on the rich?

I'd like to be one

FTA69 · 22-01-2020 12:53pm

FF and FG are largely neo-liberal capitalists; they accept the free market as the dynamic with which to run society, are pro big business and pro austerity. However the latter has also led to high personal taxation on ordinary people thus winding a lot of the population up. They’re essentially very much parties of the wider capitalist status quo.

Like many neo-liberal parties though, they’ve moved very quickly to being socially progressive or indifferent on issues such as abortion and homosexuality etc. If you compare the Blueshirts and FF from the 1980s to today on these matters there has been a huge shift - that having been said many of the grass roots of these organisation remain socially conservative, especially in rural areas.

What we do have a deficit of in Ireland is a populist right or far-right party in Ireland; one that is socially and economically conservative, explicitly anti-migrant, very much pro ‘the family’ etc etc along the lines of Hungary, Poland or the Front Nationale in France. Traditionally we’ve never had the constituency for such organisations but it could be there in future.

I can imagine someone who prioritises ‘law and order’ (“look at your man with 130 convictions”), hostility to immigration, a pledge to take a tough line on Travellers and put the boot into the unemployed would gain popularity amongst naturally right wing people commuting 2/3 hours a day to Dublin for work and who are p*ssed off about everything.

jimgoose · 22-01-2020 12:53pm

Andy Angry Woodpecker wrote: »

"Right-wing" covers a broad spectrum of beliefs, many of which conflict with one another.

Broadly, we have the nativist right, characterized by their blood-and-soil rhetoric and opposition to immigration. We have the religious right, characterized by their adherence to traditional church teachings and opposition to issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage. We have the free-market/libertarian right, which sees high taxes, an enormous welfare state, and numerous government monopolies as holding back individual potential and economic progress. Then we have those who are labeled right-wing for ridiculing so-called "woke" thinking around speech codes, safe spaces, preferred pronouns, gender-neutral bathrooms, etc.

There can be major differences of opinion between these groups. The free-market right generally welcomes immigrants while the nativist right wants to keep them out. A religious conservative might believe that allowing gays and lesbians to marry is immoral, while a libertarian might say that the government shouldn't intervene in the informed choices of consenting adults. A nationalist might believe that mandatory Irish should be enforced on all children, while a libertarian again might say that the choice of what languages to speak or learn should be up to individual parents and children.

So before you start calling for a "right-wing party," you have to define exactly what you mean by that. I don't believe there's all that much support in Ireland for the nativist or religious right positions. But the Progressive Democrats did very well for many years espousing economic and social liberalism, and there's a gap there that still hasn't been filled.

^^^
This man speaketh truth.

freshpopcorn · 22-01-2020 12:55pm

I think some people are a little right wing but right wing parties come across as a little over the top.

super_furry · 22-01-2020 12:56pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

They aren't right wing at all!. They would admit that themselves!.

Think people are clutching at straws here what right is and isn't.

People do vote right,

National Rally party France
Victor Orban in Hungary

Trump will easily sleepwalk through the next election as the American economy is flying

So when you say right wing, what you really mean is the fundamentalist right-wing of the American Republican party, and the democracy dismantling of Victor Orban.

You don't want a 'right-wing party', you're looking for an ultra-nationalistic anti-foreigner group of which we already have one - the National Party. They're standing candidates in the upcoming election.

Thing is, no-one votes for them because there is no desire for politics like that in this country. You're on your own.

CrankyHaus · 22-01-2020 12:58pm

Right-wing and left-wing meanings are topsy-turvy in Ireland.

The basic tax on wealth, the property tax, was imposed by our leading right-wing party.
This tax on wealth has been opposed vociferously by our left-wing parties, particularly our Marxist and Trotkskyist ones. You could power the country with the energy from Trotsky and Marx spinning in their graves at this.

As mentioned the slumbering ethnonationalist vote is monopolised by our largest left-wing party (which to its credit goes out of its way to purge racism within its ranks).

Social conservatism was for most of the state's history the province of both our main centre-left and centre-right party. The second it stopped being a vote winner both abandoned it and scrambled to embrace social liberalism.

Banner2theend · 22-01-2020 12:58pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

They aren't right wing at all!. They would admit that themselves!.

Think people are clutching at straws here what right is and isn't.

People do vote right,

National Rally party France
Victor Orban in Hungary

Trump will easily sleepwalk through the next election as the American economy is flying

Don't forget the "Law and Justice party" in Poland and the make-up of Italy's govt, re "right-wing nationalist agendas".

I would love to discuss about the realities, of what really is going on in Irish politics as it not as black and white, as some are suggesting not just by posters but what some in media would like us to think.

However I fear that some individuals would take my comments "the wrong way". It's for that reason, I never touch this forum, with today being a exception, for fear of libel. I'm not mentioning any names of anyone, or any institution, for that matter, so hopefully all this post will not be deleted. But imo I want to mention this important issue, as I have grave concerns about whether I or anyone could be warned, if a post crossed "that red line".

I have real sympathy for the mods here, in particular in this forum and judging what acceptable and what's not. I just want clarity on this whole libel thing, not just for me but other boards members and posters too. Regardless though I will focus on the GAA forums instead, but I have a passion for politics too and that will never be taken away from me, no matter what.

jimgoose · 22-01-2020 12:59pm

super_furry wrote: »

...fundamentalist right-wing of the American Republican party...

The fundamentalist "right-wing" crowd are a small but loud confederacy of nutters that most of the mainstream GOP find somewhat embarrassing.

facehugger99 · 22-01-2020 1:01pm

I'd like to see an fiscally conservative but socially liberal party.

The PDs were the closest we got but they got wiped out so it seems the appetite isn't there.

FG tired to portray themselves as the Party for 'People who get up early', but they have overseen huge increases in tax revenue and spent almost all of it on current spending - Paschal Donohoe has splurged every euro he's taken in and the people paying for everything have gotten fcuk all back.

And this is the most 'right-wing' party we can come up with in this country.

marieholmfan · 22-01-2020 1:06pm

facehugger99 wrote: »

I'd like to see an fiscally conservative but socially liberal party.

The PDs were the closest we got but they got wiped out so it seems the appetite isn't there.

FG tired to portray themselves as the Party for 'People who get up early', but they have overseen huge increases in tax revenue and spent almost all of it on current spending - Paschal Donohoe has splurged every euro he's taken in and the people paying for everything have gotten fcuk all back.

And this is the most 'right-wing' party we can come up with in this country.

I'd like the opposite - a high tax , no dole scrounging, hammer the rich, council houses for everyone, law and order, assimilate and integrate, great health service, no private healthcare, shoot the tax dodgers, hang the drug dealers, clean up our waterways, zero carbon economy , no private schools party.

FTA69 · 22-01-2020 1:08pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

I'd like the opposite - a high tax , no dole scrounging, hammer the rich, council houses for everyone, law and order, assimilate and integrate, great health service, no private healthcare, shoot the tax dodgers, hang the drug dealers, clean up our waterways, zero carbon economy , no private schools party.

Sounds like a laugh to be honest

Lonesomerhodes · 22-01-2020 1:09pm

super_furry wrote: »

So when you say right wing, what you really mean is the fundamentalist right-wing of the American Republican party, and the democracy dismantling of Victor Orban.

You don't want a 'right-wing party', you're looking for an ultra-nationalistic anti-foreigner group of which we already have one - the National Party. They're standing candidates in the upcoming election.

Thing is, no-one votes for them because there is no desire for politics like that in this country. You're on your own.

Foreigners like my partner of several years?.

Thing is I could be married to a black woman with 10 black kids and people like you come out with the same braindead reactionary rhetoric.

The comedian Leo Kearse has a great line on the left on this

'They are all for diversity, except diversity of opinion!'.

Shows how well the old brainwashing works when people can't even discuss a topic without someone coming out with such nonsense and slander like yourself.

It's like an allergic reaction to any question not discussed in the media.

How much does direct provision cost?.

Nazi!!!!.

May I ask you are you in Antifa by any chance?. :rolleyes:

Cordell · 22-01-2020 1:11pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

I'd like the opposite - a high tax , no dole scrounging, hammer the rich, council houses for everyone, law and order, assimilate and integrate, great health service, no private healthcare, shoot the tax dodgers, hang the drug dealers, clean up our waterways, zero carbon economy , no private schools party.

Don't forget about unicorns.

carq · 22-01-2020 1:17pm

We have the free-market/libertarian right, which sees high taxes, an enormous welfare state, and numerous government monopolies as holding back individual potential and economic progress. Then we have those who are labeled right-wing for ridiculing so-called "woke" thinking around speech codes, safe spaces, preferred pronouns, gender-neutral bathrooms, etc.

This is where my views would lie (reducing welfare state), while rejecting anti immigration rhetoric and religious doctrine.
these would be easy for a center party to adopt without getting accusations of racism by the current batch of left leaning parties and media.

FTA69 · 22-01-2020 1:17pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Foreigners like my partner of several years?.

Thing is I could be married to a black woman with 10 black kids and people like you come out with the same braindead reactionary rhetoric.

The comedian Leo Kearse has a great line on the left on this

'They are all for diversity, except diversity of opinion!'.

Shows how well the old brainwashing works when people can't even discuss a topic without someone coming out with such nonsense and slander like yourself.

It's like an allergic reaction to any question not discussed in the media.

How much does direct provision cost?.

Nazi!!!!.

May I ask you are you in Antifa by any chance?. :rolleyes:

The reality is though, is that parties like Orban’s lot in Hungary or the Front Nationale in France are hostile to foreigners - it’s a major part of who they are. There’s no point in lamenting the lack of such a party in Ireland and then having a tantrum about ‘Antifa’ or whatever when someone puts two and two together.

victor8600 · 22-01-2020 1:23pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

They aren't right wing at all!....

Do explain: what is the definition of a "right wing" party for you?

Because I consider both FF/FG to be center-right parties. Ireland is one of the most capitalist countries in the EU, only with strangely lax unemployment policies. Ireland has fifth largest number of billionaires per capita in the world. Business regulation is very lax, with banks allowed to charge the highest interest for mortgages in the Western Europe. Childcare "subsidy" is a joke, with families in Dublin paying a €1000 or more per month per child in creche (compared to €150-200 in Germany).

Hardly a left wing socialist country, and the result of the FF/FG tandem in power.

super_furry · 22-01-2020 1:34pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Foreigners like my partner of several years?.

Thing is I could be married to a black woman with 10 black kids and people like you come out with the same braindead reactionary rhetoric.

The comedian Leo Kearse has a great line on the left on this

'They are all for diversity, except diversity of opinion!'.

Shows how well the old brainwashing works when people can't even discuss a topic without someone coming out with such nonsense and slander like yourself.

It's like an allergic reaction to any question not discussed in the media.

How much does direct provision cost?.

Nazi!!!!.

May I ask you are you in Antifa by any chance?. :rolleyes:

Hahah, u okay hun?

That’s quiet the mad rant, you’re very touchy about the whole ‘anti-foreigner’ angle. Are you seriously trying to argue that Orban or the National Rally aren’t anti-immigrant?

You're citing them as examples of the kind of right-wing party you want to see then come over all snowflakey when someone actually articulates that to you.

marieholmfan · 22-01-2020 1:35pm

Cordell wrote: »

Don't forget about unicorns.

What's unrealistic about it?

The spending side would be paid for by the higher taxes.

Idbatterim · 22-01-2020 1:54pm

THERe would be nothing to fear with a new centrist or “right “ party. We are going to have a mix of **** loption options all to the left of the spectrum , in ff certainly and Fg to a lesser extent. Even a new party further to the right of what we have , would only pull things more back to the centre. The analysis here is laughable , like we can only have one party as a majority government. The notion of a good centre, centre right Party is laughable and I am meant to believe , such a part will win enough seats to actually fully implement their policies. Best conspiracy theory I’ve heard yet ! That’s how absurd the notion is

Loafing Oaf · 22-01-2020 2:00pm

carq wrote: »

This is where my views would lie (reducing welfare state), while rejecting anti immigration rhetoric and religious doctrine.
these would be easy for a center party to adopt without getting accusations of racism by the current batch of left leaning parties and media.

No, but they would certainly be labeled as 'Thatcherite', 'neoliberal' etc., which, according to conventional wisdom, is nearly as toxic in the Irish context...

Clarence Boddiker · 22-01-2020 2:00pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

One thing that strikes me about this election is the idea people are voting for change well their really isn't any!.

All left left left and more left parties.

Not one mainstream party in Ireland is even remotely right so how can you have choice if what you vote for is all the same?.

Not a cigarette papers worth of difference between

Fine Gael/ Fianna Fail/ Greens/People before profit/Sinn Fein/Labour etc etc
For example
They all support the EU
they all support abortion,
all support mass immigration into Ireland (in fact won't discuss it at all under any circumstances)
Not one will ask for public referendum on issues
Refuse to acknowledge billions so far has been spent on direct provision centres while the downtrodden poor Irish people die on the streets
Refuse to question the money doctors get from pharmaceutical firms,
refuse to acknowledge the billions Ireland has in oil and gas etc etc etc

They are all basically the same, left leaning gombeens lining their own pockets making fools of the general public.

Worst is them hardcore Marxist parties that come out with stupid names like People before profit or Anti Austerity alliance, amazed such newspeak buzzword simplicity works on people.
All mindless leftie nonsense.

The only right wing party in Ireland I can think of is the National party and they are tiny and will never ever get media coverage. Not that I agree with them on everything a few bits.

(sigh waits for the mindless screaming of racist this and that)

I like some right wing policies ie

Small accountable government.

Pro life- Believe it or not some people believe life is still sacred

Look after our own citizens first, if we can't look after our own how can we possibly look after tens of thousands of other people?.

A return to our own heritage. This is something often over looked in Ireland, we need to value our history culture and language. Easier said than done in a country where the vast majority of people don't speak the native tongue in fact openly desipise and dismiss it but we can make a start.

Hate to see Ireland become a meaningless vassel state to the EU which all mainstream parties support as they will not question the EU on anything!.

So with no right wing alternative how is this General Election offering ANY alternative?.

Bit of a joke if you ask me.

The National Party are an alternative, they're running ten candidates I believe.
https://nationalparty.ie

Cordell · 22-01-2020 2:07pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

What's unrealistic about it?

The spending side would be paid for by the higher taxes.

How much will you need to "hammer the rich" in order to provide "council houses for everyone"? What do you do after you run out of rich to hammer? Who are the rich?

marieholmfan · 22-01-2020 2:10pm

Cordell wrote: »

How much will you need to "hammer the rich" in order to provide "council houses for everyone"? What do you do after you run out of rich to hammer? Who are the rich?

I' would hammer them alot. The council houses would be built long before we ran out of rich people's money.

SaintLeibowitz · 22-01-2020 2:10pm

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The National Party are an alternative, they're running ten candidates I believe.
https://nationalparty.ie

This gave me a good laugh this afternoon. Haha..alternative haha.

marieholmfan · 22-01-2020 2:11pm

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The National Party are an alternative, they're running ten candidates I believe.
https://nationalparty.ie

Unless you tell me how you'll hammer the rich I assume that you're on the grift and squeaky little Justin is 100% a crooked grifter.

marieholmfan · 22-01-2020 2:18pm

Looked up the national party

The National Party believes strongly in the principle of a Constitutional Republic, founded on individual personal freedoms, rights and responsibilities. We reject and resist a totalitarianism whose essence is found in the totality of State power and the exercise of State authority, and not the ideological direction of that totality.
To me this is weird code for no social services

The National Party believes in an aristocracy of achievement within a democracy of opportunity, practised and established economically by the strong advocacy of Free Productive Enterprise. Consequently we endorse the inalienable right to the ownership of Private Property, and shall defend that right against the equally dangerous encroachment of both State Socialism and Monopoly Capitalism.
There's the grift

Sir Guy who smiles · 22-01-2020 2:22pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

That's what it means. You're mixing it up with conservative an liberal.

As do most people who spend a lot of time on American websites.

Lonesomerhodes · 22-01-2020 2:23pm

victor8600 wrote: »

Do explain: what is the definition of a "right wing" party for you?

Because I consider both FF/FG to be center-right parties. Ireland is one of the most capitalist countries in the EU, only with strangely lax unemployment policies. Ireland has fifth largest number of billionaires per capita in the world. Business regulation is very lax, with banks allowed to charge the highest interest for mortgages in the Western Europe. Childcare "subsidy" is a joke, with families in Dublin paying a €1000 or more per month per child in creche (compared to €150-200 in Germany).

Hardly a left wing socialist country, and the result of the FF/FG tandem in power.

For me generally speaking right wing parties are

Pro life
Pro Nationalism
Pro their own language/Identity
For stronger borders (you know spend the billions of taxpayers money that goes on direct provision spend it on their own citizens, many of whom are homeless etc)
Small government
Opposes EU dictating to their country
Supports small business
Has MUCH tougher penalties on crime.

marieholmfan · 22-01-2020 2:24pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

For me generally speaking right wing parties are

Pro life
Pro Nationalism
Pro their own language/Identity
For stronger borders (you know spend the billions of taxpayers money that goes on direct provision spend it on their own citizens, many of whom are homeless etc)
Small government
Opposes EU dictating to their country
Supports small business
Has MUCH tougher penalties on crime.

That's conservatism more or less - except small government which is for grifters.

You wouldn't be on the grift yourself lonesomerhodes?

pjohnson · 22-01-2020 2:27pm

Are the 9 candidates real people or are they using stock images again?

Lonesomerhodes · 22-01-2020 2:28pm

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

The National Party are an alternative, they're running ten candidates I believe.
https://nationalparty.ie

I know of them; they are tiny however only going 2 year and aren't a viable alternative to the mainstream.

Agree on some things disagree on others.

You'll have the layabout leftie lunatic loola's accusing you of being Hitler's ghost or some other such nonsense for even mentioning them.

Somedaythefire · 22-01-2020 2:29pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

For me generally speaking right wing parties are

Pro life
Pro Nationalism
Pro their own language/Identity
For stronger borders (you know spend the billions of taxpayers money that goes on direct provision spend it on their own citizens, many of whom are homeless etc)
Small government
Opposes EU dictating to their country
Supports small business
Has MUCH tougher penalties on crime.

You want a libertarian party.

A question though, how is a "small government" interfering in women's choice ok? Shouldn't a "small government" have minimal involvement in that?

Dyr · 22-01-2020 2:29pm

Is there not some hard right party running candidates, Justin Barret and them headers?

AulWan · 22-01-2020 2:30pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Choice is desperately important actually. .

But you don't apply that to a woman having control over her own body, obviously.

ancapailldorcha · 22-01-2020 2:31pm

Bambi wrote: »

Is there not some hard right party running candidates, Justin Barret and them headers?

I think Ben Gilroy has aligned with the Irish Freedom Party/Irexit party. Surely they'd do the job.

thegetawaycar · 22-01-2020 2:32pm

victor8600 wrote: »

Do explain: what is the definition of a "right wing" party for you?

Because I consider both FF/FG to be center-right parties. Ireland is one of the most capitalist countries in the EU, only with strangely lax unemployment policies. Ireland has fifth largest number of billionaires per capita in the world. Business regulation is very lax, with banks allowed to charge the highest interest for mortgages in the Western Europe. Childcare "subsidy" is a joke, with families in Dublin paying a €1000 or more per month per child in creche (compared to €150-200 in Germany).

Hardly a left wing socialist country, and the result of the FF/FG tandem in power.

Can you really consider FF and FG centre-right? Both raise welfare, pension rates etc... at every opportunity and spend every cent on day to day expenditure.

Both agree with large subsidies for childcare, free healthcare/GP cards etc... for the welfare class, HAP, child benefit etc... While I don't necessarily think all of these are bad things I don't call them right wing policies.

I'd more say our politics are based on try to appease everyone a little so we can sort ourselves and our mates out.

Not a left or right wing issue but we have an issue with the quick fix instead of the long term gain.

Put the money spent on HAP into building apartments and have the council rent them as "affordable rent apartments". Encourage parents to stay at home with their kids with tax breaks etc... and you would have much less demand for the childcare places.

Lower Jobseekers benefit/allowance to be stamp based and instead have accommodation, transport, healthcare free at point of contact. All of those would take time to implement and would be much better for society as a whole than an extra 10er a week for people.

marieholmfan · 22-01-2020 2:32pm

Somedaythefire wrote: »

You want a libertarian party.

A question though, how is a "small government" interfering in women's choice ok? Shouldn't a "small government" have minimal involvement in that?

He doesn't want an economically right socially libertarian party because those ideas don't care about drugs, borders, abortion, ethnicity or language.

Clarence Boddiker · 22-01-2020 2:37pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Looked up the national party

The National Party believes strongly in the principle of a Constitutional Republic, founded on individual personal freedoms, rights and responsibilities. We reject and resist a totalitarianism whose essence is found in the totality of State power and the exercise of State authority, and not the ideological direction of that totality.
To me this is weird code for no social services

The National Party believes in an aristocracy of achievement within a democracy of opportunity, practised and established economically by the strong advocacy of Free Productive Enterprise. Consequently we endorse the inalienable right to the ownership of Private Property, and shall defend that right against the equally dangerous encroachment of both State Socialism and Monopoly Capitalism.
There's the grift

Private property is a grift now?

Somedaythefire · 22-01-2020 2:38pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

He doesn't want an economically right socially libertarian party because those ideas don't care about drugs, borders, abortion, ethnicity or language.

Fair point. I've noticed a lot of wannabe libertarians are aligning more with OP than classic libertarian views though. "small government, but control women and minorities"

Cordell · 22-01-2020 2:40pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

I' would hammer them alot. The council houses would be built long before we ran out of rich people's money.

I can't take it seriously until you define rich - because some will define a household on 100k per year as rich.

I would guess 200k houses need to be build to alleviate the shortage and have some headroom. On 200k per build, that's 40 billions. They need to do half in the first term to prove it's possible so 20 billions on housing alone.

marieholmfan · 22-01-2020 2:42pm

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

Private property is a grift now?

You better believe it baby. Rabbiting on about immigrants and abortion is just cover for cutting rich people's taxes. It's the meat of what the national party are about - the rest is just hot air - apart from the low taxes and aristocracy of achievement it is just a trick to fool morons.

They believe in democracy of opportunity so do they suppport 100% inheritance tax and no private schools?

marieholmfan · 22-01-2020 2:43pm

Cordell wrote: »

I can't take it seriously until you define rich - because some will define a household on 100k per year as rich.

I would guess 200k houses need to be build to alleviate the shortage and have some headroom. On 200k per build, that's 40 billions. They need to do half in the first term to prove it's possible so 20 billions on housing alone.

Multi multi millionaires - and before you tell me they'll run off to Monaco or whatever I would rendite them for that.

jam_mac_jam · 22-01-2020 2:45pm

Why is it assumed that all right wing people are anti abortion? Not everyone who is right wing is religious and some people who are left wing are pro life. Are there not fiscally conservative people who are more worried about economics then religious issues.

I would have thought in the way of libertarianism you would want governments out of decision making. So I really can't get this oh this issue is only for the right and this is for the left.

No right wing alternative= No alternative

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