No right wing alternative= No alternative

Lonesomerhodes · 22-01-2020 11:53am

The Nal wrote: »

We're a few posts away from George Soros, globalists and chemtrails aren't we? Whatcha reckon? Before lunch?

How much is Soros paying you to derail this thread?. Ha. :rolleyes:

But on a serious note not one person here can say we have a genuine right alternative and thus no alternative if they all parrot the same ould shyte and policy.

Hardly a choice if you don't have one right?.

paw patrol · 22-01-2020 11:53am

super_furry wrote: »

Fair play, hadn't actually looked too deep into them outside of the anti-abortion thing. Seems they'll economically left but socially right-wing.

we finally agree on something, you mightn't be too bad after all:pac:

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is it. The parties are there but the people don't vote for them. They have the same challenges as any other new party but they just don't get the votes. If they got the votes, they would be mainstream.

This isn't a Conspiracy against the right. It's just voters not choosing to vote for them.

I agree - which (see my post above) baffles me . We see people moan about free loaders , high taxes, public waste and the rest . Yet Renua don't get a look in .

Irish people seem to want to mouth off and do nothing about it.
Weird .

maybe fixing the road is the key.

marieholmfan · 22-01-2020 11:54am

paw patrol wrote: »

I agree - which (see my post above) baffles me . We see people moan about fee loaders , high taxes, public waste and the rest . Yet Renua don't get a look in .

Renua are just right wing grifters.
Give me a socially conservative party that will hammer the rich and I'll vote for them.

ohnonotgmail · 22-01-2020 11:55am

marieholmfan wrote: »

Where do you stand on the rich?

the throat?

The Nal · 22-01-2020 11:56am

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

No it's very clear to me.

Praising having no alternative.

Which proves you don't like choice in political matters maybe not shouldn't have it but you are happy people DON'T have it.:rolleyes:

Renua are a new right wing party. They got lots of coverage from the "MSM" and 2.2%, 0.4% and 0.6% of people voted for them in three elections they have contested.

jimgoose · 22-01-2020 11:56am

OP, I put it to you that you know as much about actual Right Wing thinking as a dog knows about his father. I further put it to you that you are, in fact, Dominic Walsh:

banie01 · 22-01-2020 11:57am

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

How much is Soros paying you to derail this thread?. Ha. :rolleyes:

But on a serious note not one person here can say we have a genuine right alternative and thus no alternative if they all parrot the same ould shyte and policy.

Hardly a choice if you don't have one right?.

You are missing the very simple calculus here.

People have started organisations and parties espousing right wing and xenophobic policy in Ireland on a regular basis since the very formation of the state.

They have never gained popular support, never gained a mandate.
Or in other words, a choice was made by more one electorate not to support them.

Or as it's commonly known in many parts of the world, democracy in action.

22-01-2020 11:57am

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

The only right wing party in Ireland I can think of is the National party and they are tiny and will never ever get media coverage. Not that I agree with them on everything a few bits.

FF & FG never existed. It was a prolonged dream sequence out of Dallas.

ohnonotgmail · 22-01-2020 11:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

FF & FG never existed. It was a prolonged dream sequence out of Dallas.

Does it end with De Valera in the shower?

banie01 · 22-01-2020 12:01pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

FF & FG never existed. It was a prolonged dream sequence out of Dallas.

If only O'Higgins hadn't been assassinated

We could have been Francoist's without the Tans...

Which then clearly takes care of any need to ever worry about a commemoration for the Tans!

super_furry · 22-01-2020 12:01pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Does it end with De Valera in the shower?

Yeah but it's an ice-cold one and nuns are scrubbing him with wire brushes.

ohnonotgmail · 22-01-2020 12:05pm

super_furry wrote: »

Yeah but it's an ice-cold one and nuns are scrubbing him with wire brushes.

i always thought he was a bit kinky underneath it all.

carq · 22-01-2020 12:09pm

I dont think a true right wing party would have a chance in ireland.

But i believe there would be a big appetite for a true centre party , centre/right here, similar to conservatives in uk.

Lonesomerhodes · 22-01-2020 12:09pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Renua are just right wing grifters.
Give me a socially conservative party that will hammer the rich and I'll vote for them.

What choice do you have in this regard?. :cool:

Meanwhile if you want to vote left you have (from one party alone)

people before profit
anti austerity alliance
solidarity party
rise

all these stem from one party, Socialist workers party alone!.

They will call themselves something else in the morning to appeal to the simple minded.

People matter and we will get you everything for nothing or some other such nonsense.

They scoop up alot of votes with this newspeak slogan vacuous nonsense.

I'm really amazed people fall for it.

Meanwhile someone wants to vote right?. Feck all!.

jimgoose · 22-01-2020 12:12pm

banie01 wrote: »

If only O'Higgins hadn't been assassinated

We could have been Francoist's without the Tans...

Which then clearly takes care of any need to ever worry about a commemoration for the Tans!

Wasn't O'Higgins one of very few Cumann na nGaedheal members who wasn't fan of the European fascists? In fact Bill Gannon, spittle-flecked Commie and one of the gang that assassinated him, was openly "Francoist".

The Nal · 22-01-2020 12:13pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Meanwhile someone wants to vote right?. Feck all!.

Did you not vote for Renua? They tick all your boxes.

thegetawaycar · 22-01-2020 12:16pm

I'm surprised you are yet to hear that FG are super right wing despite adding to Welfare rates and Christmas bonus being brought back etc...

One of the reasons you don't see right wing parties is because the minute it's mentioned the media will jump on them as racist or loons etc...
The media do really hold the cards, they will encourage the "we should be given a place/subsidised enough to live city centre on minimum wage" types. All this while knowing there simply isn't enough accommodation in the city centre to house everyone that wants to be there, so the supply will never meet demand.

IMO There would be no harm in having an option that was more right than FG and that were given a fair crack.

I wouldn't consider myself massively right wing as I have beliefs on both sides but would like to see us instead of continuing to throw money at welfare raises use that money to build housing for the needy.
Build more prisons and have a much harsher sentencing systems after large numbers of convictions thus freeing up resources of policing/judicial system that seem to always be dealing with the same small percentage of people.

A lower rate with better/cheaper services for all would be my view point but I've been told on numerous occasions it's extremely right wing beliefs. Anything right of centre in Ireland is vilified.

Lonesomerhodes · 22-01-2020 12:27pm

thegetawaycar wrote: »

I'm surprised you are yet to hear that FG are super right wing despite adding to Welfare rates and Christmas bonus being brought back etc...

One of the reasons you don't see right wing parties is because the minute it's mentioned the media will jump on them as racist or loons etc...
The media do really hold the cards, they will encourage the "we should be given a place/subsidised enough to live city centre on minimum wage" types. All this while knowing there simply isn't enough accommodation in the city centre to house everyone that wants to be there, so the supply will never meet demand.

IMO There would be no harm in having an option that was more right than FG and that were given a fair crack.

I wouldn't consider myself massively right wing as I have beliefs on both sides but would like to see us instead of continuing to throw money at welfare raises use that money to build housing for the needy.
Build more prisons and have a much harsher sentencing systems after large numbers of convictions thus freeing up resources of policing/judicial system that seem to always be dealing with the same small percentage of people.

A lower rate with better/cheaper services for all would be my view point but I've been told on numerous occasions it's extremely right wing beliefs. Anything right of centre in Ireland is vilified.

Jeez a grown up adult response to the issue I raised. :eek::eek::eek:

I may sit down feel faint!.

Thanks,

And yes I agree the media despise the right (not that we have one) and anything to do with nationalist politics.

Such a real shame people get nothing but left wing drivel from the media.

The Nal · 22-01-2020 12:30pm

Heres Lucinda Creighton and Eddie Hobbs on the Late Late. The day Renua launched. Viewing figures of 650,000 to 700,000. 20 minutes, Friday night primetime. An easy, uncontested soft interview from the young fogey.

And no one voted for them.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2jmpvg

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Jeez a grown up adult response to the issue I raised. :eek::eek::eek:

I may sit down feel faint!.

Thanks,

And yes I agree the media despise the right (not that we have one) and anything to do with nationalist politics.

Such a real shame people get nothing but left wing drivel from the media.

Did you not vote for Renua?

Lonesomerhodes · 22-01-2020 12:38pm

The Nal wrote: »

Heres Lucinda Creighton and Eddie Hobbs on the Late Late. The day Renua launched. Viewing figures of 650,000 to 700,000. 20 minutes, Friday night primetime. An easy, uncontested soft interview from the young fogey.

And no one voted for them.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2jmpvg

They aren't right wing at all!. They would admit that themselves!.

Think people are clutching at straws here what right is and isn't.

People do vote right,

National Rally party France
Victor Orban in Hungary

Trump will easily sleepwalk through the next election as the American economy is flying

paw patrol · 22-01-2020 12:38pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Renua are just right wing grifters.
Give me a socially conservative party that will hammer the rich and I'll vote for them.

I don't know if you can say that about Renua , they haven't had a shot at power yet to see how they'd get on.
They could be sh1te tbh but i'd like to see somebody with similar policies have a crack at it.

I don't get the hate for the rich tbh.

Cordell · 22-01-2020 12:42pm

well, because they are rich and we aren't

Although some of us may be by some ill informed standards.

ArmaniJeanss · 22-01-2020 12:45pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Thanks,

And yes I agree the media despise the right (not that we have one) and anything to do with nationalist politics.

Such a real shame people get nothing but left wing drivel from the media.

The media (print media) are perfectly entitled to show whatever bias they want.
The candidates/parties of the right need to gain enough support at ground level to make it impossible for them to be ignored. So far they've failed to do that.

To an extent that is on them, as they have failed to unite under one umbrella. Therefore we often have multiple candidates standing in one constituency when one solo candidate may have got enough votes to at least lay the ground-work for the next campaign.

Whether the support for the right exists or not is debateable. But don't blame the media here. There is a tradition worldwide of candidates being either ignored or vilified by their local media as they weren't part of the traditional political establishment but still managing to get a huge vote (Macron and Trump would be two recent big examples).
Maybe you have to face the prospect that the politic viewpoints you espouse aren't actually that widely popular.

The Nal · 22-01-2020 12:45pm

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

They aren't right wing at all!.

lol

banie01 · 22-01-2020 12:50pm

jimgoose wrote: »

Wasn't O'Higgins one of very few Cumann na nGaedheal members who wasn't fan of the European fascists? In fact Bill Gannon, spittle-flecked Commie and one of the gang that assassinated him, was openly "Francoist".

I shall have to scuttle of and read a little more then Jim.
The CnG was the incubator of much of Irish facism but I may need to clarify my own understanding there.

nkl12xtw5goz70 · 22-01-2020 12:51pm

"Right-wing" covers a broad spectrum of beliefs, many of which conflict with one another.

Broadly, we have the nativist right, characterized by their blood-and-soil rhetoric and opposition to immigration. We have the religious right, characterized by their adherence to traditional church teachings and opposition to issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage. We have the free-market/libertarian right, which sees high taxes, an enormous welfare state, and numerous government monopolies as holding back individual potential and economic progress. Then we have those who are labeled right-wing for ridiculing so-called "woke" thinking around speech codes, safe spaces, preferred pronouns, gender-neutral bathrooms, etc.

There can be major differences of opinion between these groups. The free-market right generally welcomes immigrants while the nativist right wants to keep them out. A religious conservative might believe that allowing gays and lesbians to marry is immoral, while a libertarian might say that the government shouldn't intervene in the informed choices of consenting adults. A nationalist might believe that mandatory Irish should be enforced on all children, while a libertarian again might say that the choice of what languages to speak or learn should be up to individual parents and children.

So before you start calling for a "right-wing party," you have to define exactly what you mean by that. I don't believe there's all that much support in Ireland for the nativist or religious right positions. But the Progressive Democrats did very well for many years espousing economic and social liberalism, and there's a gap there that still hasn't been filled.

jimgoose · 22-01-2020 12:52pm

banie01 wrote: »

I shall have to scuttle of and read a little more then Jim.
The CnG was the incubator of much of Irish facism but I may need to clarify my own understanding there.

They liked the idea of law-and-order taken somewhat to extremes, but of course didn't know at the time where all that would end up. You had Eoin "Mad" O'Duffy's Blueshirts of course, a sort of paramilitary outfit that protected the pro-Treaty crowd from certain IRA bootboys, who modeled themselves on Mussolini's setup, including that dodgy salute. :pac:

WrenBoy · 22-01-2020 12:52pm

marieholmfan wrote: »

Where do you stand on the rich?

I'd like to be one

FTA69 · 22-01-2020 12:53pm

FF and FG are largely neo-liberal capitalists; they accept the free market as the dynamic with which to run society, are pro big business and pro austerity. However the latter has also led to high personal taxation on ordinary people thus winding a lot of the population up. They’re essentially very much parties of the wider capitalist status quo.

Like many neo-liberal parties though, they’ve moved very quickly to being socially progressive or indifferent on issues such as abortion and homosexuality etc. If you compare the Blueshirts and FF from the 1980s to today on these matters there has been a huge shift - that having been said many of the grass roots of these organisation remain socially conservative, especially in rural areas.

What we do have a deficit of in Ireland is a populist right or far-right party in Ireland; one that is socially and economically conservative, explicitly anti-migrant, very much pro ‘the family’ etc etc along the lines of Hungary, Poland or the Front Nationale in France. Traditionally we’ve never had the constituency for such organisations but it could be there in future.

I can imagine someone who prioritises ‘law and order’ (“look at your man with 130 convictions”), hostility to immigration, a pledge to take a tough line on Travellers and put the boot into the unemployed would gain popularity amongst naturally right wing people commuting 2/3 hours a day to Dublin for work and who are p*ssed off about everything.

jimgoose · 22-01-2020 12:53pm

Andy Angry Woodpecker wrote: »

"Right-wing" covers a broad spectrum of beliefs, many of which conflict with one another.

Broadly, we have the nativist right, characterized by their blood-and-soil rhetoric and opposition to immigration. We have the religious right, characterized by their adherence to traditional church teachings and opposition to issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage. We have the free-market/libertarian right, which sees high taxes, an enormous welfare state, and numerous government monopolies as holding back individual potential and economic progress. Then we have those who are labeled right-wing for ridiculing so-called "woke" thinking around speech codes, safe spaces, preferred pronouns, gender-neutral bathrooms, etc.

There can be major differences of opinion between these groups. The free-market right generally welcomes immigrants while the nativist right wants to keep them out. A religious conservative might believe that allowing gays and lesbians to marry is immoral, while a libertarian might say that the government shouldn't intervene in the informed choices of consenting adults. A nationalist might believe that mandatory Irish should be enforced on all children, while a libertarian again might say that the choice of what languages to speak or learn should be up to individual parents and children.

So before you start calling for a "right-wing party," you have to define exactly what you mean by that. I don't believe there's all that much support in Ireland for the nativist or religious right positions. But the Progressive Democrats did very well for many years espousing economic and social liberalism, and there's a gap there that still hasn't been filled.

^^^
This man speaketh truth.

No right wing alternative= No alternative

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