No right wing alternative= No alternative

jimmycrackcorm

marieholmfan wrote: »

I' would hammer them alot. The council houses would be built long before we ran out of rich people's money.

I think you'd find that we'd run out of rich people long before the planning applications for council houses got past nimby objectors.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/france-drops-75percent-supertax

https://www.nomoretax.eu/france-wants-back-rich-people/

is_that_so

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Broadly speaking, is Ireland more right or left?

Probably a mix of both. A little right of centre as we age and maybe more left of centre in our yuff.

Mad_maxx

victor8600 wrote: »

Do explain: what is the definition of a "right wing" party for you?

Because I consider both FF/FG to be center-right parties. Ireland is one of the most capitalist countries in the EU, only with strangely lax unemployment policies. Ireland has fifth largest number of billionaires per capita in the world. Business regulation is very lax, with banks allowed to charge the highest interest for mortgages in the Western Europe. Childcare "subsidy" is a joke, with families in Dublin paying a €1000 or more per month per child in creche (compared to €150-200 in Germany).

Hardly a left wing socialist country, and the result of the FF/FG tandem in power.

Banks charge higher interest rates here due to the inability to repossess

That's a left wing policy which prevents moving against those who default

Somedaythefire

is_that_so wrote: »

It's that socially liberal thing SSM, 8th, feeding the costly welfare state etc.

All only followed through with because of public opinion. They’re still centre-right parties, regardless.

jimgoose

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

You're the one who was going on about the importance of choice earlier in the thread.

What you really mean is there needs to be more choices that suit you though, right?

He's yet another one of those strange people who seem to have gotten it into their heads that "RIght Wing" has something to do with the Roman Catholic church and it's weird obsession with women and sex.

Doctor Jimbob

jimgoose wrote: »

He's yet another one of those strange people who seem to have gotten it into their heads that "RIght Wing" has something to do with the Roman Catholic church and it's weird obsession with women and sex.

Edit - I'm a moron

meeeeh

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Banks charge higher interest rates here due to the inability to repossess

That's a left wing policy which prevents moving against those who default

Actually that's a populist policy, not particularly left wing. Left would offer you social housing, they tend not to be particularly forgiving about private debts. Anyway it's only one policy.

I think op wants a big party to match his views. At the moment there is no market for it, you need critical mass of people and those policies don't have it.

jmayo

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

One thing that strikes me about this election is the idea people are voting for change well their really isn't any!.

All left left left and more left parties.


Not one mainstream party in Ireland is even remotely right so how can you have choice if what you vote for is all the same?.

Not a cigarette papers worth of difference between

Fine Gael/ Fianna Fail/ Greens/People before profit/Sinn Fein/Labour etc etc
For example
They all support the EU
they all support abortion,

You are the type of person that I have major problem with when it comes to what I want in right wing.
You have to lump in economically conservative, tough on justice, tight immigration control with foaming at the mouth return to good old catholic values Ireland.

I would say lot of Irish people would have similar views.
Yes we want toughening of wastage on career social welfarists, building of prisons and tougher sentencing of career and dangerous criminals, tigh immigration controls to prevent the sham marriages, the climate and ethos that invites and facilitates bogus asylum seekers.
But we do not want that good old catholic church moralistic two faced society.

is_that_so wrote: »

We don't do right and left, politically, in the sense that other countries view it. Most of what we have is in the centre or leftish with tinges of the right in FG in some areas. We have a few loony left but of little consequence.

For someone that claims we don't do right and left you come out with claptrap about FG being right wing.
The last time they were right wing in any shape or form Alice Glenn was knocking about.
They are pro welfare state, so pro social liberalism they have a gay guy as leader, and ended up bringing in same sex marriage and abortion.

Sinn fein have more staunch socially right wingers than FG at this stage.

super_furry

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

You're the one who was going on about the importance of choice earlier in the thread.

What you really mean is there needs to be more choices that suit you though, right?

Yeah but clearly not THAT kind of choice, more their kind of choice, which ironically takes away other peoples choice.

Tis gas.

briany

Why does it feel like 9 out of 10 recent reg's on Boards are mad right-wing heads?

jimgoose

jmayo wrote: »

...But we do not want that good old catholic church moralistic two faced society...

jmayo wrote: »

...so pro social liberalism they have a gay guy as leader, and ended up bringing in same sex marriage and abortion...

<HARRUMPH>

Mad_maxx

All of the parties are currently trying to outdo each other in trying to convince the electorate that they will spend the most if elected

RTE will frown at whichever party appears to be prioritising tax cuts over spending increases

The narative which has been created is that the more you spend, the more virtuous you are.

We have an air tight left wing default narative when it comes to public discourse in this country on every subject, notice the reaction to the murder of that thug in drogheda

"crime is due to disadvantage"

On the topic of opposition to DP centres

"we must be vigilant against the far right"

Every single national issue is framed in a rock solid ideological left wing manner and every single political party adheres to the prevailing creed

No single event demonstrated this more than the reaction to Peter casey, he made utterly ordinary comments about a sacred cow and the media and political class tripped over themselves to express condemnation.

Lonesomerhodes

jimgoose wrote: »

He's yet another one of those strange people who seem to have gotten it into their heads that "RIght Wing" has something to do with the Roman Catholic church and it's weird obsession with women and sex.

Away with the fairies ya are pal.

No one mentioned the Roman Catholic Church except you!. :rolleyes:

jimgoose

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Away with the fairies ya are pal.

No one mentioned the Roman Catholic Church except you!. :rolleyes:

Are you not the one wittering on about life being sacred? Pal??

Mad_maxx

meeeeh wrote: »

Actually that's a populist policy, not particularly left wing. Left would offer you social housing, they tend not to be particularly forgiving about private debts. Anyway it's only one policy.

I think op wants a big party to match his views. At the moment there is no market for it, you need critical mass of people and those policies don't have it.

It's a left wing populist position, either way, that's why interest rates here are higher

We also don't evict local authority tenants who don't bother paying rent, thirty million is currently outstanding

That's another left wing position

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

You all must be very happy with the current government given none of you want actual change... by all means vote for FF, FG, SF, Greens and NOTHING will change.

The Nal

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You all must be very happy with the current government given none of you want actual change... by all means vote for FF, FG, SF, Greens and NOTHING will change.

Whats on offer elsewhere? The country is at full employment.

None of the loony left or the loony right have an economic policy. Just vague ideas that can't be paid for or implemented.

Lonesomerhodes

Hunky Monster wrote: »

You all must be very happy with the current government given none of you want actual change... by all means vote for FF, FG, SF, Greens and NOTHING will change.

Good point, nothing will change.

We need a decent right party in government who will redirect the billions and billions spent on direct provision back to homeless Irish and hospitals.

Otherwise expect the housing crisis to get 10 times worse!

is_that_so

Somedaythefire wrote: »

All only followed through with because of public opinion. They’re still centre-right parties, regardless.

Not opinions, votes. Referenda have been rejected. Not welfare either, that has universal commitment, The only difference is what parties want to spend on it.

Das Reich

There is no right of left wing party in Ireland, not that bad at all at least no risk of socialism.

is_that_so

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Good point, nothing will change.

We need a decent right party in government who will redirect the billions and billions spent on direct provision back to homeless Irish and hospitals.

Otherwise expect the housing crisis to get 10 times worse!

€1.3bn over 20 years. The HSE ask for nearly that amount every year when it blows its budget. I guess you're looking for a single issue party, they didn't do well- e.g. Renua.

Idbatterim

Mad_maxx wrote: »

All of the parties are currently trying to outdo each other in trying to convince the electorate that they will spend the most if elected

RTE will frown at whichever party appears to be prioritising tax cuts over spending increases

The narative which has been created is that the more you spend, the more virtuous you are.

We have an air tight left wing default narative when it comes to public discourse in this country on every subject, notice the reaction to the murder of that thug in drogheda

"crime is due to disadvantage"

On the topic of opposition to DP centres

"we must be vigilant against the far right"

Every single national issue is framed in a rock solid ideological left wing manner and every single political party adheres to the prevailing creed

No single event demonstrated this more than the reaction to Peter casey, he made utterly ordinary comments about a sacred cow and the media and political class tripped over themselves to express condemnation.

yeah! and he went from nearly zero percent to 23% vote! By speaking the truth! That is why none of the current parties, that arent FF or FG here will achieve nothing, if they are competing on the platform of more of the same ****, which they are, to hell with them! We need a new party, even one headed by casey ideally, because of the amount of exposure he would be given. He has a lot of faults, the he would give those of us that want it, a protest vote. Him speaking the truth, makes him stand out from every other candidate!

mariaalice

There is a huge difference between pandering and policies.

mariaalice

There is a huge difference between pandering and policies.

MrMusician18

Ireland is rather unusual politically really. Usually the most nationalist parties are of the right, but here they've always been left, and hard left at that.

The reason there's no right wing parties is that theres no market for them - any good or popular ideas get taken by the two large parties. That, and they tend to be run by people who largely are cranks.

The last respectable right wing party was the Progressive Democrats, and they ended up becoming an irrelevance.

finjoe

super_furry wrote: »

There's no demand. It's been tried down the years - and is still being tried now - from Renua to Libertas to Anontú, people don't want to vote for these cranks.

typical seasoned voter syndrome there Ide nearly guess.., if its anything other than FF/FG/Labour insults are thrown..where as if we were a propper country Fianna Fail wouldnt be in existence now after selling us out to save the banks/Euro and indeed Ide go as far as to say the EU at the time...Fair play to those who do go and try and set up a new party, it certainly not easy done in this country when the minute you go against the status quo you are labelled looney lefts and cranks...unless we dont vote radically different, and yes we will have to take a leap of faith, how can we know exactly how things will turn out until they are in power...remember, listening to the current mainstream parties over the last week its all "plans going forward"..."WILL be rolled out by 2025"...WILL give 50m to this and 100m to the other"..yet as we know often none or only a fraction is always given when the time comes..But apparently it ok for them to make promises and not deliver, if a new party comes onstream, and states its plans, the mainstream media and existing parties will tell them their figures dont add up and we are all to accept that then as the surely the older parties are honest:(

Ime voting for one of the way lesser parties this time, I have nothing to loose, if I have to pay a bit of extra tax BUT can get a doctors appointment when I want it, NOT in 3 or 4 days time, I will pay it...What I dont want to continue is paying tax after tax into a black hole to keep our banks and econonomy afloat, on a moderate wage, yet politicians are on excessive amounts but apparently there arent enough of them to bother slashing their salaries and pensions...that is a non argument, if everyone else has to take a hit so have they and not pro rata either...2.5K a year of reduction of a salary say €100k(before expenses I might add) is not the equivalent of docking 800 per annum out of a salary of say 30K...the person left on €97.5K still has a very very good salary and the deduction would scarecely be missed (its up the TD if has multiple properties to maintain/kids in private colleges etc) The person left of 29,200 will definitely miss his reduction and wont have the multiple properties and private colleges etc...so that argument needs to be buried every time it is brought up...Go vote for same parties again, but dont expect change, at least if we all try, we might get some change..if we dont like it, we can always go back...CHANGE is needed...

Lonesomerhodes

is_that_so wrote: »

€1.3bn over 20 years. The HSE ask for nearly that amount every year when it blows its budget. I guess you're looking for a single issue party, they didn't do well- e.g. Renua.

You get that figure from the Irish times?. That's a figure on what was spent already and was a VERY conservative figure runs well into the billions now.

Let's say it was 1.3 billion for arguments sake.

How many houses that build or jobs that create for Irish citizens?.

Hell you could buy the lads sleeping rough in Dublin city mansions in Foxrock for that kinda money let alone the billions more spent on direct provision!.

Why is the government housing folk from the middle East over Irish citizens?.

Genuine question.

meeeeh

Idbatterim wrote: »

yeah! and he went from nearly zero percent to 23% vote! By speaking the truth! That is why none of the current parties, that arent FF or FG here will achieve nothing, if they are competing on the platform of more of the same ****, which they are, to hell with them! We need a new party, even one headed by casey ideally, because of the amount of exposure he would be given. He has a lot of faults, the he would give those of us that want it, a protest vote. Him speaking the truth, makes him stand out from every other candidate!

Peter Casey was the candidate who got traction against Michael D. It was protest vote against presidential coronation, his statements just got him attention. He lost in European Elections and he will loose in this election (I think he is running in Leo's constituency).

meeeeh

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It's a left wing populist position, either way, that's why interest rates here are higher

We also don't evict local authority tenants who don't bother paying rent, thirty million is currently outstanding

That's another left wing position

Left wing position would be more social housing provided by state not offloaded to the private sector and charities. Similar health which is often provided privately for profit or some by charities. I grew up in left wing country, none of the main parties in Ireland are overly left wing. Maybe some of the loony left. It's absolutely ridiculous to claim Irish housing policy is left wing. Maybe if you are one of American Evangelicals but anyone from continental Europe will tell you there is very little on the left in Ireland.

Loafing Oaf

meeeeh wrote: »

he will loose in this election (I think he is running in Leo's constituency).

Well he certainly won't be getting in there but he is also running in Donegal where he might have an outside chance