People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

jimmycrackcorm · 22-01-2020 2:50pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

SF will never get a majority to rule the country, at least any time soon.
I agree tghat some of their policies are a bit over ambitious and wishful thinking, but I can't deny that my local TD has done a stellar job over the last few years.
He has been an exellent source of support for our community and has represtented us well in the D and on a more local level.
He is a well educated man who has been involved in politics since his early childhood.

I have a relative who was suicidal last year due to addiction issues, we were trying to get him into a facility to rehabilitate him but everywhere we tried was full. We contacted two FF TD's and the Shinner, desperately begging for help as he'd already made several attempts to take his own life at that point.
We got no reply from FF, but our Sinn F TD went above and beyond contacting rehabs himself on our behalf until he eventually found him a place. His secretary even called us a few months later to check all was well.

The same TD was extremely helpful to one of my neighbours when her child's SNA was in danger of being removed. He intervened and stopped it, thank god.

No other TD has been as helpful, vocal or supportive to me or my local community. I refuse to vote FG, and FF just don't seem to care on a local level and by all accounts did a crap job last time.

I don't particularly want to vote SF, but I think this man deserves my vote and at this point I can't see myself voting for anyone else. I think this is definitely the case for other people too.
Their candidates are well liked in their localities and that will stand to them when it comes down to it.

It's this type of thinking that had Michael Lowry topping the poll on Tipperary every election despite the tribunal findings.

SF have a good on the ground reputation but I personally feel that the job of a TD should be primarily focused on the national level.

Ignoring a mining pensions crisis because people are living longer just for a populist view to keep the age at 65 is simply not prudent as an example.

freshpopcorn · 22-01-2020 2:59pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

The same TD was extremely helpful to one of my neighbours when her child's SNA was in danger of being removed. He intervened and stopped it, thank god.

Just out of interest what did he do here?
I know a good few teachers who are always giving out about cuts that FG have made.(They will all continue to vote for FG and FF tough).
From my understanding,
In the past SNA's were mainly allocated to a child but there seems to X number of hours allocated to a school.
The inspector(I think they are called a senor) decides if they they should be allocated x number of hours.
They base this on if the child has being diagnosed after an assessment and they observe the classroom. The school also has to fill out an a good bit of paper work.
The inspector does this assessment on the guidelines set out by the government and if your either entitled or not. You can of course appeal.

SusieBlue · 22-01-2020 3:01pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's this type of thinking that had Michael Lowry topping the poll on Tipperary every election despite the tribunal findings.

SF have a good on the ground reputation but I personally feel that the job of a TD should be primarily focused on the national level.

Ignoring a mining pensions crisis because people are living longer just for a populist view to keep the age at 65 is simply not prudent as an example.

They aren't going to win though, and all the other parties would be willing to team up and jointly rule to ensure they don't get into power, so those policies are irrelevant really. They won't be happening.

The other TD's in my constituency are out of touch with the community, unavailable, and absent.
He is not. He is present and he listens and he has done an excellent job (imo) of representing the interests of my constituency in the Dáil. Its a no brainer for me, really.

Niallof9 · 22-01-2020 3:02pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

SF will never get a majority to rule the country, at least any time soon.
I agree tghat some of their policies are a bit over ambitious and wishful thinking, but I can't deny that my local TD has done a stellar job over the last few years.
He has been an exellent source of support for our community and has represtented us well in the Dáil and on a more local level.
He is a well educated man who has been involved in politics since his early childhood.

I have a relative who was suicidal last year due to addiction issues, we were trying to get him into a facility to rehabilitate him but everywhere we tried was full. We contacted two FF TD's and the Shinner, desperately begging for help as he'd already made several attempts to take his own life at that point.
We got no reply from FF, but our Sinn Féin TD went above and beyond contacting rehabs himself on our behalf until he eventually found him a place. His secretary even called us a few months later to check all was well.

The same TD was extremely helpful to one of my neighbours when her child's SNA was in danger of being removed. He intervened and stopped it, thank god.

No other TD has been as helpful, vocal or supportive to me or my local community. I refuse to vote FG, and FF just don't seem to care on a local level and by all accounts did a crap job last time.

I don't particularly want to vote SF, but I think this man deserves my vote and at this point I can't see myself voting for anyone else. I think this is definitely the case for other people too.
Their candidates are well liked in their localities and that will stand to them when it comes down to it.

Thats good that he did that. But unfortunately your basing your vote on this act which is exactly why he did it. Its the same with Healy Rae. thats all well and good, fine like but don't be complaining when national issues become huge problems. Its no different than i have my house i'm alright jack.

You've allowed a local issue cloud your judgement on things that will affect national issues. People like you will be the first to complain when your locality gets dragged into the much bigger picture. Obviously the whole problem with the way our politics work.

SusieBlue · 22-01-2020 3:03pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Just out of interest what did he do here?
I know a good few teachers who are always giving out about cuts that FG have made.(They will all continue to vote for FG and FF tough).
From my understanding,
In the past SNA's were mainly allocated to a child but there seems to X number of hours allocated to a school.
The inspector(I think they are called a senor) decides if they they should be allocated x number of hours.
They base this on if the child has being diagnosed after an assessment and they observe the classroom. The school also has to fill out an a good bit of paper work.
The inspector does this assessment on the guidelines set out by the government and if your either entitled or not. You can of course appeal.

I believe he contacted the Department of Education on their behalf, I'm not privy to all the details. All I know is that the SNA was in danger of being reallocated and when he intervened, that didn't happen.

is_that_so · 22-01-2020 3:03pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Who do they ask?

Who says Leo has a 35% rating?

Eh, the people polled.

freshpopcorn · 22-01-2020 3:03pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's this type of thinking that had Michael Lowry topping the poll on Tipperary every election despite the tribunal findings.

SF have a good on the ground reputation but I personally feel that the job of a TD should be primarily focused on the national level.

Ignoring a mining pensions crisis because people are living longer just for a populist view to keep the age at 65 is simply not prudent as an example.

I was under the impression that you contacted you local county councilor over a local issue.
It might be a reason why Sinn Fein did poor last year in the local elections. People forget there County Councillor and went straight to the TD.

is_that_so · 22-01-2020 3:09pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

I believe he contacted the Department of Education on their behalf, I'm not privy to all the details. All I know is that the SNA was in danger of being reallocated and when he intervened, that didn't happen.

Happy to hear it worked out for you. In fairness most TDs who had the remotest interest in their constituents would do this. I had two of mine and a couple of minsters looking into an issue I had. It didn't resolve as I'd hoped but they did make the effort. Ultimately it didn't affect my voting choices regardless. A TD needs to be more than a local fixer. IMO you need to be satisfied with how they represent their voters nationally as well.

freshpopcorn · 22-01-2020 3:12pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

I believe he contacted the Department of Education on their behalf, I'm not privy to all the details. All I know is that the SNA was in danger of being reallocated and when he intervened, that didn't happen.

Just what my understanding from speaking to teachers.
Your are either entitled to one or you aren't.
Providing you've submitted everything correctly.

Similarly to a TD getting somebody a medical card. You were entitled to it in the first place.

MACHEAD · 22-01-2020 3:40pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Just what my understanding from speaking to teachers.
Your are either entitled to one or you aren't.
Providing you've submitted everything correctly.

Similarly to a TD getting somebody a medical card. You were entitled to it in the first place.

Legal entitlement in itself doesn't mean that every claimant will get through the red tape and bureaucracy surrounding most services. That is what public representatives do to aid and support their constituents. It matters not one jot what party (if any) they are a member of, if they do their job effectively, efficiently and without fear or favour, then they will be rejected or re-elected on the merit of that.

frillyleaf · 22-01-2020 3:48pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's this type of thinking that had Michael Lowry topping the poll on Tipperary every election despite the tribunal findings.

SF have a good on the ground reputation but I personally feel that the job of a TD should be primarily focused on the national level.

Ignoring a mining pensions crisis because people are living longer just for a populist view to keep the age at 65 is simply not prudent as an example.

I do understand this is not realistic but it really is one rule for TD’s and another for ordinary Joe soap. Some of the pensions former TD’s are huge and are given at a much earlier age not to mention other perks. They can’t possibly see the world through other people’s views with that level of comfort and wealth.

I wonder will any of the parties suggest that TD’s salaries and pensions will be capped. I’m surprised this hasn’t happened yet.

I’m surprised SF haven’t suggested reform in this!

Hamsterchops · 22-01-2020 3:52pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Eh, the people polled.

Sorry, but does that mean that when asked about Leo's leadership, 35% of the public voted for him to remain Taoiseach, and that 34% of people voted for Mary Lou to become Taoiseach?

...because if so, Mary Lou is right there!

jimmycrackcorm · 22-01-2020 3:58pm

frillyleaf wrote: »

I do understand this is not realistic but it really is one rule for TD’s and another for ordinary Joe soap. Some of the pensions former TD’s are huge and are given at a much earlier age not to mention other perks. They can’t possibly see the world through other people’s views with that level of comfort and wealth.

I wonder will any of the parties suggest that TD’s salaries and pensions will be capped. I’m surprised this hasn’t happened yet.

I’m surprised SF haven’t suggested reform in this!

Would you be happy if the employment law was changed so that you can be turfed out of your job after 5 years without any recourse?

is_that_so · 22-01-2020 4:02pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Sorry, but does that mean that when asked about Leo's leadership, 35% of the public voted for him to remain Taoiseach, and that 34% of people voted for Mary Lou to become Taoiseach?

...because if so, Mary Lou is right there!

Have read of it here.
https://www.irishtimes.com/election2020/ipsos-mrbi-poll-fianna-f%C3%A1il-edges-ahead-of-fg-as-sf-surges-1.4145946

James Brown · 22-01-2020 4:06pm

Knowall1 wrote: »

Ask your SF canvassers was Gerry Adams in the IRA. They will tell you a lie. And if they can't tell the truth on that simple thing then why believe it on anything else

If I was in the IRA I wouldn't tell you.
It's a kin to handing yourself into the police for a crime you don't think should be a crime.

I wasn't by the way *wink*.

I don't even consider the IRA when giving SF a nod. I don't think we'll all be drafted into it if they gain any power. Also the GFA put that all to bed SF wise.

frillyleaf · 22-01-2020 4:09pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Would you be happy if the employment law was changed so that you can be turfed out of your job after 5 years without any recourse?

With some of the lump sums and pensions TD’s receive I would be quite happy for this to happen and look for work elsewhere!

partyguinness · 22-01-2020 4:10pm

Conversely there are plenty of vote for FF or FG without knowing anything about the candidate.

"Oh sure we always vote FF/FG"- they couldn't tell you why.

This slavish adherence to a civil war menatality

is_that_so · 22-01-2020 4:31pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Conversely there are plenty of vote for FF or FG without knowing anything about the candidate.

"Oh sure we always vote FF/FG"- they couldn't tell you why.

This slavish adherence to a civil war menatality

No , just voters locked into to a party. Same as every party. Fewer now I reckon as many of us have become a lot more floating. Hence the proliferation of auction politics to woo voters.

partyguinness · 22-01-2020 4:33pm

is_that_so wrote: »

No , just voters locked into to a party. Same as every party. Fewer now I reckon as many of us have become a lot more floating. Hence the proliferation of auction politics to woo voters.

Well I find that the reason they are locked into a particular party derives from their civil war era grand or great grand parents and it has just been inherited.

is_that_so · 22-01-2020 4:39pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Well I find that the reason they are locked into a particular party derives from their civil war era grand or great grand parents and it has just been inherited.

Like some diehard SF and Labour voters I know!

James Brown · 22-01-2020 4:41pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Like some diehard SF and Labour voters I know!

Nobody said it was exclusive, but I know FG and FF families because that's how they refer to themselves.
It's not healthy for the public to vote along party lines IMO.

is_that_so · 22-01-2020 4:42pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Nobody said it was exclusive, but I know FG and FF families because that's how they refer to themselves.
It's not healthy for the public to vote along party lines IMO.

It's not, but now not as prevalent as it used to be.

partyguinness · 22-01-2020 4:49pm

is_that_so wrote: »

Like some diehard SF and Labour voters I know!

That's impressive considering SF did not remove its policy of abstention from Dail Eireann until 1986.

is_that_so · 22-01-2020 4:53pm

partyguinness wrote: »

That's impressive considering SF did not remove its policy of abstention from Dail Eireann until 1986.

Which is nearly 40 years, a lot of lifetime for people living now!

Gael23 · 22-01-2020 4:54pm

This goes for every party. There’s a guy I went to school with running for FF. I will never vote for Fianna Fáil ever for any reason

James Brown · 22-01-2020 5:17pm

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not, but now not as prevalent as it used to be.

I'm not that old.
Hopefully not.

blanch152 · 22-01-2020 5:27pm

quokula wrote: »

I got quite confused reading that article, until I realised it was several years old and not related to this election.

Interestingly, if you compare those predictions to what has actually happened, government spending has in fact gone up by the 12 billion predicted by Labour and FG in that article, from 68 to 80 billion.

Has it?

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/d8796b-r/

Government expenditure in 2019 was €67.4bn.

blanch152 · 22-01-2020 5:29pm

MACHEAD wrote: »

Legal entitlement in itself doesn't mean that every claimant will get through the red tape and bureaucracy surrounding most services. That is what public representatives do to aid and support their constituents. It matters not one jot what party (if any) they are a member of, if they do their job effectively, efficiently and without fear or favour, then they will be rejected or re-elected on the merit of that.

I am happy to vote for councillors in local elections who have a good record on issues like that. However, when voting for general elections, we are voting for legislators and Ministers, that is a completely different skillset. Sinn Fein, and Fianna Fail before them, together with independents like the Healy-Raes build their reputation on getting things for constituents. That is the absolutely last thing I want TDs to do, so another reason not to vote for either of them.

Amirani · 22-01-2020 5:33pm

debok wrote: »

There in favour of Europe

They've campaigned against every single EU treaty. They campaigned against Ireland joining the EU in the first place and campaigned for withdrawal in 1975.

They're not pro-Europe, they have no track record of it. They may be paying some lip service to it the past year or 2, but that's just to sound different to the Brits.

frillyleaf · 22-01-2020 5:49pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I am happy to vote for councillors in local elections who have a good record on issues like that. However, when voting for general elections, we are voting for legislators and Ministers, that is a completely different skillset. Sinn Fein, and Fianna Fail before them, together with independents like the Healy-Raes build their reputation on getting things for constituents. That is the absolutely last thing I want TDs to do, so another reason not to vote for either of them.

Very good point. I’ve read this is why a lot of people in my local area will be voting for a TD, they are voting for him as “ he is the only one that gets things done” as opposed to the policies of the party.

quokula · 22-01-2020 6:10pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Has it?

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/d8796b-r/

Government expenditure in 2019 was €67.4bn.

I was taking figures from whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie - having looked in more detail the €80bn includes non-voted costs (debt servicing, EU contributions) that aren't in the linked figure which explains the discrepancy.

However, my 2016 figure also came from there and also included that figure. The 2016 budget shows expenditure of €54bn, so the difference remains.

FrancieBrady · 22-01-2020 6:30pm

Amirani wrote: »

They've campaigned against every single EU treaty. They campaigned against Ireland joining the EU in the first place and campaigned for withdrawal in 1975.

They're not pro-Europe, they have no track record of it. They may be paying some lip service to it the past year or 2, but that's just to sound different to the Brits.

In fairness, SF had evolved into a party that supported EU membership long before Brexit was even a twinkle in Nigel's eye.

JP Liz V1 · 22-01-2020 7:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If Sinn Fein cleaned up their act and removed the bloody bank robbing thugs, they would already have had a Taoiseach

Don't all parties have these thugs

James Brown · 22-01-2020 7:11pm

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Don't all parties have these thugs

They do but as with SF they are usually drummed out.

JohnnyFlash · 22-01-2020 7:40pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They do but as with SF they are usually drummed out.

Ya, that’s why Ferris was thrown out for heading down to Roscommon in a Hiace to pick up the murderers of a police officer of the State. The illiterate scumbag.

Get off the stage, Matt.

James Brown · 22-01-2020 8:09pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Ya, that’s why Ferris was thrown out for heading down to Roscommon in a Hiace to pick up the murderers of a police officer of the State. The illiterate scumbag.

Get off the stage, Matt.

The other parties don't have thugs? Does Conlon ring a bell? Feighan?
I think you're responding to something else.

JohnnyFlash · 22-01-2020 8:16pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

The other parties don't have thugs? Does Conlon ring a bell? Feighan?
I think you're responding to something else.

They all pale into insignificance into having a TD who hopped into a clapped out van and drove to a prison to pick up the men who shot a Garda dead. That’s thuggery, Matt. That’s the sort of thing that people don’t forget.

James Brown · 22-01-2020 8:22pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

They all pale into insignificance into having a TD who hopped into a clapped out van and drove to a prison to pick up the men who shot a Garda dead. That’s thuggery, Matt. That’s the sort of thing that people don’t forget.

TBF, some balls. Could have easily got a lackey to do it. He obviously wanted to be seen.
You never addressed the actual conversation, but hey...

blanch152 · 22-01-2020 8:31pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They do but as with SF they are usually drummed out.

Ferris, Ellis, Houlihan, Adams, last I checked, they were all still members. Think Slab has left though.

James Brown · 22-01-2020 8:33pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Ferris, Ellis, Houlihan, Adams, last I checked, they were all still members. Think Slab has left though.

They're all in SF, (issue was other parties having thugs) and despite the tax avoidance, slab isn't in FG AFAIK, but I can see the reason for the confusion.

JohnnyFlash · 22-01-2020 8:39pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

TBF, some balls. Could have easily got a lackey to do it. He obviously wanted to be seen.
You never addressed the actual conversation, but hey...

The thread is about SF, dude. Not FG. SF are the lads who had Ferris pick up a few cop killers, had a leader who sent his brother over the border so he could continue to fiddle with kids, and who had a sitting TD steal printer ink so his auld fella could continue to print An Poblacht. That party.

FrancieBrady · 22-01-2020 8:40pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

They all pale into insignificance into having a TD who hopped into a clapped out van and drove to a prison to pick up the men who shot a Garda dead. That’s thuggery, Matt. That’s the sort of thing that people don’t forget.

There were many things done in the conflict/war that were detestable and hard to forgive or forget.

There were many things done to achieve the peace that were not easy to take either.

However, the establishment of a network of support for released prisoners was a necessary aid to that process and stabilisation.

The crime committed by those who killed a garda was a travesty and wrong, but making sure all prisoners came out to a stable, supportive environment ensured the peace we have had and was right if not inspirational tbh. It simply had to be done on both sides.

There is no doubt in my mind about that.

blanch152 · 22-01-2020 9:01pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They're all in SF, (issue was other parties having thugs) and despite the tax avoidance, slab isn't in FG AFAIK, but I can see the reason for the confusion.

I think the point being made is that thugs from other parties get expelled and shunned, in Sinn Fein, they are embraced and promoted.

A big difference.

SEPT 23 1989 · 22-01-2020 9:10pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There were many things done in the conflict/war that were detestable and hard to forgive or forget.

There were many things done to achieve the peace that were not easy to take either.

However, the establishment of a network of support for released prisoners was a necessary aid to that process and stabilisation.

The crime committed by those who killed a garda was a travesty and wrong, but making sure all prisoners came out to a stable, supportive environment ensured the peace we have had and was right if not inspirational tbh. It simply had to be done on both sides.

There is no doubt in my mind about that.

How did Pearse get on after his release was the “stable supportive environment” of much benefit to him?

FrancieBrady · 22-01-2020 9:17pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

How did Pearse get on after his release was the “stable supportive environment” of much benefit to him?

No it wasn't. When you have the issues Pearse has no 'stable supportive environment' will help sadly.

But ignore the general point if you wish. I seen with my own eyes what was done and achieved by it after being initially skeptical when they set a centre up here in my town.

I know you guys live in an absolute world where the shinners can do no right, but they got that right imo and the program deserves praise.

Akabusi · 22-01-2020 9:17pm

It's quite simple even ignoring the past troubles, if you are not good with basic budgeting and think the world owes you then SF is the party for you.

If you work, have bettered yourself through hard times and made necessary sacrifices then SF is not the party for you.

James Brown · 22-01-2020 9:31pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The thread is about SF, dude. Not FG. SF are the lads who had Ferris pick up a few cop killers, had a leader who sent his brother over the border so he could continue to fiddle with kids, and who had a sitting TD steal printer ink so his auld fella could continue to print An Poblacht. That party.

Hey buddy, I was directly responding to a particular quote man.
Who picked up who in a what now?

blanch152 wrote: »

I think the point being made is that thugs from other parties get expelled and shunned, in Sinn Fein, they are embraced and promoted.

A big difference.

Yes that's a point you and Johnny are making. I was talking on other parties as per the quote I was responding to.

Lowery shunned or courted?
Not all of them

blanch152 · 22-01-2020 9:45pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Hey buddy, I was directly responding to a particular quote man.
Who picked up who in a what now?

Yes that's a point you and Johnny are making. I was talking on other parties as per the quote I was responding to.

Lowery shunned or courted?
Not all of them

Yes, and by bringing other parties into the discussion, you were able to clearly demonstrate the difference between Sinn Fein and normal political parties.

All parties have their thugs, we get that, we accept that, but what makes Sinn Fein different is that their thugs are part of what they are, part of who they are. In other parties, the thugs get expelled.

tjhook · 22-01-2020 11:26pm

I have a funny feeling there's a large overlap between those saying "The IRA murders are in the past, get over it" and those getting all bitter and emotional over commemoration of the RIC, which was disbanded a century ago.

I'm not a soldier or a guard, but I would have great sympathy for one who might some day have to salute a Sinn Fein minister for justice. It'd give me sleepless nights.

I think SF will do well this year. FF are still tainted from breaking the country, and FG sat on their hands when they had a great opportunity to make things better. I think this will be "Peak SF".

Honesty, I think keeping SF away from power is the only strong reason I'll be voting at all. I'd rather live in a country crippled by debt than in a country run by supporters of thugs/murderers, with who-knows pulling the strings in the background. But then, I'm old enough to remember the pain and fear they inflicted on so many people.

And that's all before even considering their economic policies, if I voted for them I'd be a turkey voting for Christmas.

blanch152 · 22-01-2020 11:32pm

tjhook wrote: »

I have a funny feeling there's a large overlap between those saying "The IRA murders are in the past, get over it" and those getting all bitter and emotional over commemoration of the RIC, which was disbanded a century ago.

I'm not a soldier or a guard, but I would have great sympathy for one who might some day have to salute a Sinn Fein minister for justice. It'd give me sleepless nights.

That is a very good point about those with an ambiguous relationship to history.

Not only would they want to forget the deeds of the 70s and 80s, while remembering what the RIC did, they also crticise unionists for celebrating William of Orange.

tjhook wrote: »

I think SF will do well this year. FF are still tainted from breaking the country, and FG sat on their hands when they had a great opportunity to make things better. I think this will be "Peak SF".

I think we hit Peak SF a couple of years ago, but the RIC issue may give them a little bounce this time out, yet they will be below the time they got three seats in the Euros which was when we saw peak SF.

tjhook wrote: »

Honesty, I think keeping SF away from power is the only strong reason I'll be voting at all. I'd rather live in a country crippled by debt than in a country run by supporters of thugs/murderers, with who-knows pulling the strings in the background. But then, I'm old enough to remember the pain and fear they inflicted on so many people.

And that's all before even considering their economic policies, if I voted for them I'd be a turkey voting for Christmas.

I share your sentiments on the type of people that are Sinn Fein. Most people do, for example, there are very few people on here prepared to actually admit that they are supporters of Sinn Fein.

People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

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