Picard 1x01 - "Remembrance" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

heebusjeebus · 24-01-2020 3:37pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

I've a feeling Countdown #3 may fill-in some of the blanks.

When is that released? I've read the first two and 8 think the 3rd is the final issue.

_Kaiser_ · 24-01-2020 3:41pm

heebusjeebus wrote: »

When is that released? I've read the first two and 8 think the 3rd is the final issue.

Says online its out the 29th January. Seems a bit silly to not have it out before the series aired, but howandever.

I've read the first 2 and it does fill in some of the blanks alright - notably the background of Picard's Romulan houseguests

Spear · 24-01-2020 3:49pm

Evade wrote: »

True. Lore sprang to mind more immediately because they were standing over a copy of Data saying no android was as advanced as Data.

I don't think they care about B4 or Lore for who they are. For Maddox Data was the holy grail, and B4 is just a means to get access to some of him. And Lore doesn't have that, and so isn't useful. That and the whole murder/torture thing.

Evade · 24-01-2020 3:58pm

Spear wrote: »

I don't think they care about B4 or Lore for who they are. For Maddox Data was the holy grail, and B4 is just a means to get access to some of him. And Lore doesn't have that, and so isn't useful. That and the whole murder/torture thing.

It's the inaccuracy of the statement that annoyed me. It's a bit like saying no ship was as advanced as the Enterprise-D while forgetting there were many more Galaxy class ships.

AtomicHorror · 24-01-2020 4:08pm

Evade wrote: »

It's the inaccuracy of the statement that annoyed me. It's a bit like saying no ship was as advanced as the Enterprise-D while forgetting there were many more Galaxy class ships.

Didn't they keep it quiet about Data's mother? They could hardly write a report about her and then not tell her she's an android.

As to Lore, he was regarded by Soong as inferior to Data.

TheValeyard · 24-01-2020 4:09pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Says online its out the 29th January. Seems a bit silly to not have it out before the series aired, but howandever.

I've read the first 2 and it does fill in some of the blanks alright - notably the background of Picard's Romulan houseguests

Part 3 was meant to be out last week, but got delayed to the 29th.

Evade · 24-01-2020 4:11pm

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Didn't they keep it quiet about Data's mother? They could hardly write a report about her and then not tell her she's an android.

Probably.

AtomicHorror wrote: »

As to Lore, he was regarded by Soong as inferior to Data.

I think that had to do with his personality not hardware. I think Data had commented that he and Lore had the same capabilities.

Spear · 24-01-2020 4:52pm

Evade wrote: »

It's the inaccuracy of the statement that annoyed me. It's a bit like saying no ship was as advanced as the Enterprise-D while forgetting there were many more Galaxy class ships.

That's true. For a series so dependent upon nostalgia and TNG references, even a single throwaway line about why they ruled out Lore would've done a lot to make it consistent.

AtomicHorror · 24-01-2020 6:19pm

Spear wrote: »

That's true. For a series so dependent upon nostalgia and TNG references, even a single throwaway line about why they ruled out Lore would've done a lot to make it consistent.

Perhaps they're simply avoiding direct references to Lore, either because he will become relevant later, or because they're leaving that matter open for possible future exploration.

24-01-2020 6:24pm

Lore was shot by energy weapon which depolarised his neural pathways.

Done

Evade · 24-01-2020 6:28pm

I wonder if Lore could have been the basis for the first generation of synths and that's why they went wrong.

Goodshape · 24-01-2020 6:28pm

"The Ready Room" – Picard after-show hosted by Wil Wheaton.

https://intl.startrek.com/videos/watch-the-first-installment-of-the-ready-room-0

Just started it myself. Seems a little better than these things usually are.

24-01-2020 9:19pm

Enjoyed the episode but the opening titles are awful.

AMKC · 24-01-2020 9:26pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Enjoyed the episode but the opening titles are awful.

Have to disagree. I think thet are beautiful and a hell of a lot better than the one for Discovery.

fritzelly · 24-01-2020 9:27pm

Watched the after show
The timelines are not matching up
Romulus was destroyed in 2387 (since ST 2009 is now canon) but he retired a year or two before that
Anyone got any explanations?

pixelburp · 24-01-2020 9:40pm

Solid opening episode, I liked it. The interview was a blunt way to get the "reasons he's retired and Starfleet is in his bad books", but served its purpose. Can't say the Fed wasn't heading that way, becoming more insular and less outwardly enlightened.

Too many questions to even start to guess what might be going on, beyond the obvious presumption it has something to do with the Borg, Romulans and Synths.

Agree on the comments that the first daughters death was a bit glib. Smelled a little too like a convenient plot "gotcha"

Homelander · 24-01-2020 9:41pm

A bit rushed but quite good. A lot better than Discovery. Looking forward to the 2nd episode already.

Sparko · 24-01-2020 9:44pm

fritzelly wrote: »

Watched the after show
The timelines are not matching up
Romulus was destroyed in 2387 (since ST 2009 is now canon) but he retired a year or two before that
Anyone got any explanations?

My take on it - possibly incorrect but I'll give it a bash.

They knew Romulus was going to be destroyed long enough in advance to organise a mass evacuation. So this was underway pre 2387. Mars gets attacked, Federation changes priorities, Picard retires. Then we get to 2387 and Romulus destroyed.

fritzelly · 24-01-2020 9:45pm

Sparko wrote: »

My take on it - possibly incorrect but I'll give it a bash.

They knew Romulus was going to be destroyed long enough in advance to organise a mass evacuation. So this was underway pre 2387. Mars gets attacked, Federation changes priorities, Picard retires. Then we get to 2387 and Romulus destroyed.

Excellent point, thanks

ilovesmybrick · 24-01-2020 9:46pm

fritzelly wrote: »

Watched the after show
The timelines are not matching up
Romulus was destroyed in 2387 (since ST 2009 is now canon) but he retired a year or two before that
Anyone got any explanations?

He resigned when the rescue was called off, but since they were in the process of building the rescue fleet that implies that the disaster was forewarned by a couple of years. So, rescue starts with the main fleet, construction of the dedicated rescue vessels starts, main fleet starts getting people out, the synths destroy the in construction rescue fleet & Utopia Planetia, main fleet is recalled, Picard resigns, (somewhere here Spock fecks off to the past with red matter!), Romulus is destroyed!

I would presume this all took place over c. 5 years or so.

24-01-2020 9:49pm

I never realised this was all going along with JJ-time.

Evade · 24-01-2020 9:51pm

I don't really get why they needed to build an evacuation fleet. It's post Dominion War, Starfleet alone probably had hundreds of ships it didn't really have a use for add that to the Romulan fleet and two years notice they should have been able to evacuate the whole Romulan system.

fritzelly · 24-01-2020 9:53pm

The new transporters are cool - don't remember seeing anything like them before.

pixelburp · 24-01-2020 9:57pm

Evade wrote: »

I don't really get why they needed to build an evacuation fleet. It's post Dominion War, Starfleet alone probably had hundreds of ships it didn't really have a use for add that to the Romulan fleet and two years notice they should have been able to evacuate the whole Romulan system.

Depends on the toll the war took. The Federation can't have been in good shape, wars rarely leave nations or empires in an entirely healthy state - especially ones so intense and costly. What was left of the fleet still had duties to perform across the galaxy, especially on the fringes of the Fed. Can imagine a lot of smaller collectives had eyes on the weaker edges of the Fed.

Evade · 24-01-2020 10:08pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Depends on the toll the war took. The Federation can't have been in good shape, wars rarely leave nations or empires in an entirely healthy state - especially ones so intense and costly. What was left of the fleet still had duties to perform across the galaxy, especially on the fringes of the Fed

Postwar most militaries, even the losers, have an abundance of spare perfectly usable equipment lying around and unless Starfleet Operation Crossroaded them recommissioning should be easier than building new ships. Narratively it works just as well to have Utopia Planetia recommissioning older ships and beefing up life support to squeeze them in like sardines and them getting destroyed.

WomanSkirtFan8 · 24-01-2020 10:29pm

just watched it a few hours ago on amazon prime and Wow! What a fantastic episode and a great reintroduction to Picard after 18 years away.
Really liked the little references that we got (i.e. Bruce Maddox, the word offspring was mentioned as well.)
Can't wait to see the direction they're going to go with this but bring it on.

WomanSkirtFan8 · 24-01-2020 10:30pm

I think it's actually going to be halfway between Prime Trek and JJ Trek which is fine by me.

Goodshape · 24-01-2020 10:31pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

I never realised this was all going along with JJ-time.

Well, only kinda. The very opening scenes of the first JJ movie take place in this same timeline as TNG, DS9, Voy, Ent, DSC, Picard, etc.

That's when Romulus is destroyed, so that's this timeline, and that's the reason Spock and Niro travel back in time, which then creates the alternative timeline of the JJ films.

ilovesmybrick · 24-01-2020 10:50pm

Evade wrote: »

I don't really get why they needed to build an evacuation fleet. It's post Dominion War, Starfleet alone probably had hundreds of ships it didn't really have a use for add that to the Romulan fleet and two years notice they should have been able to evacuate the whole Romulan system.

Well they mentioned that they were building 10,000 transport ships. I suppose if a Galaxy class, which would hold 10,000 + crew in an emergency and was one of the largest, that most of the ships they had wouldn't be capable for such a large evacuation. What could you squeeze on the excelsiors, or the defiants. If you're talking about hundreds of millions...

Some of the shots seemed to show that they were building containers that would be towed by ships at warp. I can't remember if it was in this episode or the short trek. Essentially giant containers towed by tug ships.

Evade · 24-01-2020 11:07pm

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Well they mentioned that they were building 10,000 transport ships. I suppose if a Galaxy class, which would hold 10,000 + crew in an emergency and was one of the largest, that most of the ships they had wouldn't be capable for such a large evacuation. What could you squeeze on the excelsiors, or the defiants. If you're talking about hundreds of millions...

Some of the shots seemed to show that they were building containers that would be towed by ships at warp. I can't remember if it was in this episode or the short trek. Essentially giant containers towed by tug ships.

The limit on a Galaxy class is more life support capacity than anything else. A real navy ship the approximate size of Voyager can have a standard crew of 4,000+.

I do take the point that fleet remnants alone isn't enough for 900,000,000 (which seems like a really low number) but they could have started with it especially considering each ship could do multiple runs.

FutureGuy · 24-01-2020 11:34pm

I hate to give Mecharandom and Nerdrotic views but I just watched their “reviews” just now.

Comedy gold.

SantaClaw · 24-01-2020 11:38pm

Evade wrote: »

I do take the point that fleet remnants alone isn't enough for 900,000,000 (which seems like a really low number) but they could have started with it especially considering each ship could do multiple runs.

If you trust memory alpha Romulus had a population of 18 billion which for the home planet of a major species seems to be reasonable.

900 million might just be the estimate of what could be saved. From the shows, especially the battles in DS9 it seems Starfleet fleets are in the 100s of ships. So maybe the Federation a couple thousand spare ones after the war.

But planets are big, so even with that many, getting dedicated transports that are just boxes with engines and live support makes sense.

pixelburp · 24-01-2020 11:40pm

FutureGuy wrote: »

I hate to give Mecharandom and Nerdrotic views but I just watched their “reviews” just now.

Comedy gold.

Go on, what are they saying? I presume there's still factions determined to hate this however it was destined to turn out.

24-01-2020 11:43pm

SantaClaw wrote: »

If you trust memory alpha Romulus had a population of 18 billion which for the home planet of a major species seems to be reasonable.

900 million might just be the estimate of what could be saved. From the shows, especially the battles in DS9 it seems Starfleet fleets are in the 100s of ships. So maybe the Federation a couple thousand spare ones after the war.

But planets are big, so even with that many, getting dedicated transports that are just boxes with engines and live support makes sense.

I imagine that the Romulans were evacuating also but they determined that the final billion would need more than the available resources

Venom · 24-01-2020 11:50pm

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Well they mentioned that they were building 10,000 transport ships. I suppose if a Galaxy class, which would hold 10,000 + crew in an emergency and was one of the largest, that most of the ships they had wouldn't be capable for such a large evacuation. What could you squeeze on the excelsiors, or the defiants. If you're talking about hundreds of millions...

Some of the shots seemed to show that they were building containers that would be towed by ships at warp. I can't remember if it was in this episode or the short trek. Essentially giant containers towed by tug ships.

Wouldn't any finished ships get sent to pick up the Romulans asap instant of having them just sitting there waiting for all 10,000 to be finished?

The Federation going all isolationist just because one planet got attacked really felt out of place considering nothing like that was ever considered despite all the wars with the Borg, Klingons and Dominion.

FutureGuy · 24-01-2020 11:52pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Go on, what are they saying? I presume there's still factions determined to hate this however it was destined to turn out.

She lasted 16 minutes and had to turn it off because it was too violent and boring.

pixelburp · 24-01-2020 11:56pm

FutureGuy wrote: »

She lasted 16 minutes and had to turn it off because it was too violent and boring.

Jaysus wept. Well, you watched it so we don't have to I guess

They'll have another 0.17 cent in their coffers because of you

FutureGuy · 24-01-2020 11:56pm

Venom wrote: »

Wouldn't any finished ships get sent to pick up the Romulans asap instant of having them just sitting there waiting for all 10,000 to be finished?

The Federation going all isolationist just because one planet got attacked really felt out of place considering nothing like that was ever considered despite all the wars with the Borg, Klingons and Dominion.

Maybe the destruction of Utopia Planetia (and the Federation’s main shipyard) and the deaths of 90000 on Earth’s doorstep was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

You said it yourself, a bloody war with the Dominion, multiple Borg incursions and a Klingon war. This all happened over the course of a decade or so.

In 2010, could you predict the world political chance we have seen since?

Evade · 25-01-2020 12:00am

The Federation going isolationist is a bit odd too, it's already a multi species alliance. Things getting tough and it balkanising might have been a better choice.

Venom · 25-01-2020 12:08am

FutureGuy wrote: »

Maybe the destruction of Utopia Planetia (and the Federation’s main shipyard) and the deaths of 90000 on Earth’s doorstep was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

You said it yourself, a bloody war with the Dominion, multiple Borg incursions and a Klingon war. This all happened over the course of a decade or so.

In 2010, could you predict the world political chance we have seen since?

It's just bad writing and so out of place for a show based on hope and that the future will be brighter place. A show that has had the Earth itself attacked before and massive Starfleet losses just in the Dominion war alone but the Federation still carried on, yet now it's a case of lock the doors and hide under the blankets.

fritzelly · 25-01-2020 12:10am

I wonder is this the start of the end of the Federation and a lead in to ST:DISC in the future?
Maybe a bit too early but they abandoned the Romulans, maybe they start doing the same for other civilisations or maybe those civilisations start cutting ties...

Also any rumours online about what happened to the synths?

Stark · 25-01-2020 12:12am

Maybe they suspected Romulan involvement in the attack and called off the rescue mission as a result?

pixelburp · 25-01-2020 12:12am

Venom wrote: »

It's just bad writing and so out of place for a show based on hope and that the future will be brighter place. A show that has had the Earth itself attacked before and massive Starfleet losses just in the Dominion war alone but the Federation still carried on, yet now it's a case of lock the doors and hide under the blankets.

It was coming though. DS9 pointed towards disharmony and that the Federation was not without flaws or weaknessess. As said this is set after a period of actual war in the Fed, that had to have left mark, utopia or not.

Stark · 25-01-2020 12:14am

fritzelly wrote: »

I wonder is this the start of the end of the Federation and a lead in to ST:DISC in the future?
Maybe a bit too early but they abandoned the Romulans, maybe they start doing the same for other civilisations or maybe those civilisations start cutting ties...

Don't think so. I imagine the Federation will have plenty of time to rise and fall and rise and fall again in the centuries between Picard and Discovery season 3. The timeships era has yet to come for example.

I believe the theme of "Picard" is going to be bringing about that first renaissance.

Eire Go Brach · 25-01-2020 12:17am

Can we call it Frexit (o:

AMKC · 25-01-2020 12:28am

@ Eire Go Brach No horrible words in here please or we will ban together and get the mods to ban you :cool:

I would like to know where wasSection 31 when all this was happening?

I thought they were workingunderground as such to sop things like the Synths going haywire ad attacking Mars.

pinkypinky · 25-01-2020 1:22am

I loved it! So happy to be back in this universe.

About 3 mins after we first saw Daj, I said to my friends "she reminds me of Lal".

Can't wait for more.
Have just rewatched "The Measure of a Man" and had forgotten Maddox was in it.
I foresee a lot of Trek rewatch over the next week. Thanks to Netflix for having it all in advance.

fritzelly · 25-01-2020 1:28am

FutureGuy wrote: »

I hate to give Mecharandom and Nerdrotic views but I just watched their “reviews” just now.

Comedy gold.

Just watched your woman there - strikes me as a woke millenial snowflake non gender assigning fruitcake (insert other derogatory terms here)
Your other chap wasn't too bad - at least he actually watched it

delly · 25-01-2020 1:53am

Just finished the first episode and really enjoyed it. Seeing the Enterprise D at the start was indeed a very nice moment. The only odd bit that I felt was a little jarring was the last scene when we see the Romulan dude introduce himself to the twin, it was just a minute of awkward acting. Actually the Romu-Irish accent was a bit of an odd one as well :pac:.

fritzelly · 25-01-2020 1:55am

delly wrote: »

Actually the Romu-Irish accent was a bit of an odd one as well :pac:.

Never noticed that on first viewing - probably because I was giddy with excitement thru the whole episode, but it is very noticeable on that second viewing

Picard 1x01 - "Remembrance" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

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Picard 1x01 - "Remembrance" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]