Picard 1x01 - "Remembrance" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

ilovesmybrick

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

On a side note: Did it mention how long this was after "Children of Mars"? I got the impression it was a couple of years later but I could be wrong. I know the reporter said it's still on fire but they were talking about the attack like it was history as opposed to something that just happened.

I think c. 10-12 years. The Mars attack was just before the destruction of Romulus, and the interview was the ten years anniversary of the supernova.

Goodshape

seamus wrote: »

That's 18 years that the viewer has not seen or known Picard. Considering that we only "knew" him for seven continuous years - 15 if you include the movies; then Picard has lived a whole other lifetime since we last knew him. He would be a different person.

Yep. Which is fine expect in that time I've also gotten to know (in the seeing a celebrity on TV sense) Patrick Stewart. And it might take a while for that 'different person' Picard has become to feel like it's not just Patrick Stewart. That kinder and smilier (than Picard) old English gentleman.

But so far that's more an observation than a complaint. I'll probably get used to it.

TheIrishGrover

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I think c. 10-12 years. The Mars attack was just before the destruction of Romulus, and the interview was the ten years anniversary of the supernova.

Oh, I didn't pick that up. Thought it was after. I was thinking timeline of: Romulus destruction 10-12 years ago --> Mars Attack approx 5 -7 years after that (So about 3-5 years ago)

TheIrishGrover

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

On a side note: Did it mention how long this was after "Children of Mars"? I got the impression it was a couple of years later but I could be wrong. I know the reporter said it's still on fire but they were talking about the attack like it was history as opposed to something that just happened.

Years later, attack on Mars happened around the same time as the Romulan Nova.

They were constructing the rescue ferries, for Romulus, at the time.

AtomicHorror

Really enjoyed it- can't wait to see more. I think it's a sign of something compelling when you can just feel when they're about to end the episode and you feel annoyed because it's too soon.

I particularly liked the depiction of the Romulans- it seems like Picard intends to bring a lot more depth to them. Some old-style TOS/JJ Vulcan-looking Romulans, and some ridged TNG style ones.

Interesting that the term "synthetics" seems to refer only to androids. Holograms like Index are exempt from that label and tolerated.

Some great nods to the past, but nothing laboured. Elements from almost every iteration of Trek woven together quite seamlessly.

The vibe from the fans seems refreshingly positive overall, which is so good to see. Considering the theme of division apparent in the show, it's nice to imagine Picard might bring some healing to the fandom. We'll see, I guess.

The usual suspects on YouTube are calling it all manner of unkind names, but I think they may find this will backfire on them this time.

I absolutely loved that Picard kept the banner from Captain Picard Day

McLoughlin

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

There was a very Irish sounding Romulan in there!

Must be a relation of The Chief

AtomicHorror

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I very much enjoyed that I have to say.

Agree with the above that it's rushing a bit too fast to set things up, and the big reveal at the end was spoiled by trailers, but for all that it was a really good starter.

Of course, they have an advantage in that they're continuing a story with existing characters and plots (rather than the mess that is Discovery trying to shoehorn new characters and events into that established history) and the massive advantage of a lead who thoroughly knows his character and that world - but with that comes increased pressure to both be faithful to that world, and successfully move the story on.

From what I've seen so far, I'm a lot more excited about Picard than anything I've seen in 2 seasons of Discovery!

Perhaps Season 3 will help that. I think the showrunners have realised how difficult it is to do a prequel show when there is such a dense and complex pre-existing canon.

It's really very heartening to see some of the more skeptical fans enjoying Picard.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

My understanding is that Picard and the fleet were the first wave of rescue ships while the 1000 flying buses (basically) were being constructed.

When Mars is attacked (heh! Will we see federation president Jack? ) and the rescue ships destroyed, the fleet is withdrawn and Picard resigns in disgust.

I wonder if this was what necessitated the red matter plan with Spock? A more desperate attempt to avert the disaster. If Picard supported that without proper authorisation that would have put a spin on the split from Starfleet too.

H3llR4iser

Stark wrote: »

Liked it a lot. It did feel a little rushed as people said. Unfortunately effect of TV seasons being much shorter these days than they used to be. Most other Star Trek shows opened with a two-parter and this felt a bit like a two-parter squeezed into one part.

Premise - I haven't watched it yet, it's going to be tonight's treat. Yet, I've seen a few reviews online who say the exact opposite, as in "it starts slow but then picks up". Most reviewers have seen the first 3 episodes already, so what they say is that it picks up AFTER episode 1.

It's probably as you say - will feel "faster" to those of us used to TNG-style pace. Surely a result of having to cram everything into a smaller number of episodes - and probably the super-short attention span ultra-superficial audience of 2020.

One article I skimmed through praised "Star Trek: Picard" for "understanding how hard it is to sell Star Trek to modern audiences". Take it as you wish

H3llR4iser

H3llR4iser wrote: »

It's probably as you say - will feel "faster" to those of us used to TNG-style pace. Surely a result of having to cram everything into a smaller number of episodes - and probably the super-short ultra-superficial audience of 2020.

That and their lead being a near 80 year old man.

Winning_Stroke

Deleted User wrote: »

That and their lead being a near 80 year old man.

Having a body double for him doing a mild run had the missus and myself flat out laughing.

Overall I expected bad but I'd give this a distinct "meh". Yaay, the Federation and Starfleet are racist and bigoted! Yaay, a young woman engaged in outrageous karate fights with masked assassins! "Hey we need to relay to the audience that she's an android/cyborg. How about we make her a super duper hacker and have awesome martial arts skills?" The aggressive FNN ( puke ) tv interview was awful save for a few lines from Picard.

a_squirrelman

Loved it from start to finish, some new Trek is always welcome. I need to breathe deep as the haters are already driving me crazy.

AMKC

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I like Hulu's way of doing a series drop, Drop the first three episodes at once and then do the rest of them weekly.

That would not be too bad but I do not mind one episode a week either. It gives everyone a chance to see it and to have a thread on each episode too in here so we can chat about it and our opinion of it.

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I wonder how deep into lore they will go. I mean, it certainly gave off a more "Prestige" vibe if you know what I mean. I mean it was like a character piece that just happened to involve Star Trek (Which is great, don't get me wrong). But it looks like they are attempting to please fans (done!) and bring in new people who would have thought previously that Trek was too nerdy. (Although same people have no problem with dragon queens and ice zombies "That's different" )

On a side note: Did it mention how long this was after "Children of Mars"? I got the impression it was a couple of years later but I could be wrong. I know the reporter said it's still on fire but they were talking about the attack like it was history as opposed to something that just happened.

They will have to address where they got the cube from, will they say "Reconstructed from Wolf 359" and leave it there or will they say "Oh, we found it laying about"

I doubt it was the Borg Cube that attacked the fllet at Wolf 359 anyway as that was destroyed near Earth by the Borg Queen when she iniatiated the self destruct after Picard put the ship to sleep.
I would say it was a damaged or abandoned Cube that they came across.

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

I think c. 10-12 years. The Mars attack was just before the destruction of Romulus, and the interview was the ten years anniversary of the supernova.

I think it was the other way around. Why would the Federation call off the evacuation of Romulas or even want to evacuate Romulas if they knew it was Romulans that had attacked Mars? They were evacuating Romulas and when Mars and there ship yards at Mars get attacked they then call it off and thats what piss;ed off Picard and is also the reason he decides to resign from Starfleet.

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Oh, I didn't pick that up. Thought it was after. I was thinking timeline of: Romulus destruction 10-12 years ago --> Mars Attack approx 5 -7 years after that (So about 3-5 years ago)

It was after you are right.

Deleted User wrote: »

Years later, attack on Mars happened around the same time as the Romulan Nova.

They were constructing the rescue ferries, for Romulus, at the time.

I also agreed with this.

ilovesmybrick

AMKC wrote: »

I think it was the other way around. Why would the Federation call off the evacuation of Romulas or even want to evacuate Romulas if they knew it was Romulans that had attacked Mars? They were evacuating Romulas and when Mars and there ship yards at Mars get attacked they then call it off and thats what piss;ed off Picard and is also the reason he decides to resign from Starfleet.

It was a synth attack on Mars, not Romulan. They were constructing the rescue fleet there at the time, but after the attack and the destruction of Utopia Planetia they called off the rescue mission to consolidate the fleet at home and blamed the lack of defense on the fleet being caught up in the rescue of Romulans. That's what led to Picard resigning and the ban on synths. There have been some theories floating around online that the Tal Shiar may have had a part to play, but those are only theories so far.

TheIrishGrover

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

I wonder how deep into lore they will go.

This is a family show...

Evade

I really enjoyed that. I think it's doing something right as apart from a couple of elements, so far at least, anyone could be put in the lead role. Having it be Picard just puts a few extra touches on it. I wonder if that's a side effect of Stewart initially refusing to do it and they had the bones of the story already mapped out.


I took some rambly notes while watching it:

• Ent-D is pretty
• Dude, hmm...
• No off button hypospray?
• Romulan disruptor? not green?
• Opening, meh
• Romulans at Chateaux Picard?
• Lots of aliens - good
• FNN - Would you like to know more?
• Millions not billions?
• Wonder where the Doctor is
• Is she Lal?
• Seems a bit like the Visitor with Picard and the Synth
• Solar panels on the Golden Gate seems odd in a world with cold fusion
• Enterprise museum exhibit hits me in the nostalgia
• She is Lal
• Mom's an AI too?
• Okinawa is really small
• Yeah, red Romulan weapons
• Dahj is Lal's sister then?
• Lore was as advanced as Data
• Ahh, the nondescript glassware of varying colours indicating SCIENCE
• Has everyone forgotten Lal?
• Narik looks like STD Spock
• Romulans aren't very Romulan like
• Wasn't the cube forcefield blue in the trailer?

AMKC

AMKC wrote: »

I doubt it was the Borg Cube that attacked the fllet at Wolf 359 anyway as that was destroyed near Earth by the Borg Queen when she iniatiated the self destruct after Picard put the ship to sleep.
I would say it was a damaged or abandoned Cube that they came across.

Could be Hugh's original cube ship, damaged after his return

AtomicHorror

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

It was a synth attack on Mars, not Romulan. They were constructing the rescue fleet there at the time, but after the attack and the destruction of Utopia Planetia they called off the rescue mission to consolidate the fleet at home and blamed the lack of defense on the fleet being caught up in the rescue of Romulans. That's what led to Picard resigning and the ban on synths. There have been some theories floating around online that the Tal Shiar may have had a part to play, but those are only theories so far.

It would make some sense if the Synths were under the directions of a Romulan faction opposed to the peace that would have been undoubtedly secured if the Federation had carried out the evacuation.

Not unlike the Gorkon assassination.

The Romulan agents were admonished for not speaking English, so no green disruptor would fit

Evade

Deleted User wrote: »

The Romulan agents were admonished for not speaking English, so no green disruptor would fit

Yeah. I just put my rambly thought here with no editing they're in chronological order. It did still look like a Romulan disruptor apart from the colour of the beam.

Nigel Fairservice

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

There was a very Irish sounding Romulan in there!

So it wasn't just me who thought that.

The burning question for me is: Why the fook are Romulans living on a Borg cube?

FutureGuy

So.

Absolutely fantastic episode. Did not expect a lot of what I saw with the twins and Dahj’s demise.

Nice little nods to previous films and episodes.

Bruce Maddox mention MUST be important. Certain we will see him and that he is behind it all.

Also, my prediction, we will meet him AND he will have resurrected Data.

Goodshape

Twin or not, Dahj's death seemed a little... unnecessary? Too quickly dismissed? Like, "OMG SHE DED! ....oh, she's a twin. That's fine then :-)".

But also, we didn't see a body. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a transporter trick.


//edit:: although, watching that scene again – her skin does kinda peel off and burn away :-/. Maybe she ded.

seamus

FutureGuy wrote: »

he will have resurrected Data.

I really, really, really hope not.

What I had expected, and what seems to be the case is that Picard has spent 18 years since Nemesis mourning the loss of Data and all his potential, to save his old ass. Hence the dreams, his remark that the dreams are more frequently pleasant than waking.

And Picard's utter joy at the realisation that Dahj is, in some way, Data's progeny, that Data and his potential was not completely lost.

Like a parent mourning the loss of an adult child and then 20 years later meeting a grandchild they never knew they had.

To bring Data back would, IMO, tear all that down. A reset button. Picard can die happy knowing that Data is back.

Twin or not, Dahj's death seemed a little... unnecessary? Too quickly dismissed? Like, "OMG SHE DED! ....oh, she's a twin. That's fine then :-)".

But also, we didn't see a body. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a transporter trick.

I think the "she didn't appear on the footage" thing was dismissed a little quickly. Cloaking device, scattering field, etc. Wouldn't really explain why Picard and the Romulans could still see her.

It does sound more likely that someone has tampered with it or covered it up. I thought it a little odd that Picard woke up at home rather than in a medical facility. No discussins with doctors, no statements taken by the federation about a big fecking explosion outside their museum.
Perhaps his Romulan friends were in on it, picked Picard up and had the footage deleted/edited before Starfleet got to the site. In which case Dahj may have been beamed out just before the explosion and they were hoping Picard would just drop it.

Evade

Goodshape wrote: »

Twin or not, Dahj's death seemed a little... unnecessary? Too quickly dismissed? Like, "OMG SHE DED! ....oh, she's a twin. That's fine then :-)".

But also, we didn't see a body. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a transporter trick.

Set up nicely with the agent being transported after he was kicked over the railing.

McLoughlin

McLoughlin wrote: »

Must be a relation of The Chief

TheIrishGrover

AtomicHorror wrote: »

........The usual suspects on YouTube are calling it all manner of unkind names, but I think they may find this will backfire on them this time.

Oh, they'll be here too. Immediately having inside information about viewing numbers and cheering the "fact" that it's already been cancelled.

So when it does finish (Probably just planned two series given the story and age of Stewart) they can cheer "Told ya".

I'm surprised they haven't been here already. Maybe they actually don't have a problem. The cast in the first episode was mainly heterosexual white and the strong female character died so maybe they are satisfied.


But, yeah. in general it is good to see it being embraced for once.

Goodshape

Goodshape wrote: »

Twin or not, Dahj's death seemed a little... unnecessary? Too quickly dismissed? Like, "OMG SHE DED! ....oh, she's a twin. That's fine then :-)".

But also, we didn't see a body. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a transporter trick.


//edit:: although, watching that scene again – her skin does kinda peel off and burn away :-/. Maybe she ded.

Did data not have an android mother, who did not know that she was an android?

I know that they said that Dahj was flesh and bone android but was half expecting a terminator style endoskeleton and functionality


Here we go, his "mother" died and Soong implanted her pathways into an android body. Complete with sensor fooling tech. To everyone looking, she was human.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)



Oh and Data's ma is Irish: Fionnula Flanagan

Optimus Prime

With regards bringing Data back, my own personal opinion on it is that this is the way they are going, there was far too much talk about these synths being made from blood and flesh, using a small piece of data's positronic brain to grow them.

Data's entire arch is around becoming more human, no matter how hard he tries he will never be fully human, he cant feel etc and now all of a sudden you have flesh and blood synths. It would complete his arch to bring him back that way, he can even look older and human as he is now in real life.

Also in the TNG ep with Maddox he tells him that some day he may help Maddox with his tests if memory serves, so a simple flash back with data giving him a piece of his positronic brain will close that loop.

Just my thoughts. :pac:

_Kaiser_

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Oh, they'll be here too. Immediately having inside information about viewing numbers and cheering the "fact" that it's already been cancelled.

So when it does finish (Probably just planned two series given the story and age of Stewart) they can cheer "Told ya".

I'm surprised they haven't been here already. Maybe they actually don't have a problem. The cast in the first episode was mainly heterosexual white and the strong female character died so maybe they are satisfied.


But, yeah. in general it is good to see it being embraced for once.

I'm sorry, but that's bull**** and this is not America where such divisive identity politics are deep rooted in their culture.

Discovery messed with the existing lore to shoehorn in an overpowered, centre-of-the-universe character that is generally unlikeable and wooden (even accounting for the Vulcan upbringing), introduced the most ridiclously unqualified and irritating Starfleet cadet in history and yet have her on this super-secret test ship but we know almost nothing about the rest of the main cast, re-wrote the character of Spock to fit in the aforementioned overpowered main character, and introduced technology and concepts they didn't even have in the TNG/Nemesis era and tried to handwave it away with "We don't talk about that now" :rolleyes:

It's just a bad show that should have started in the future (as it's now ended up) and gone from there. A season 3 is now unnecessary as well, because they sorta wrapped it up as best they could at the end of the last.

F8ck all to do with gender or skin color!