Beef Plan Movement (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

nhg wrote: »

Many of you have probably heard a bit about the new Beef Plan Movement being set up.... I'm not involved in the setting up of it but I have joined as a member.

If you are interested in finding out more check it out at www.beefplan.ie

They are also set up on Whatsapp and Telegram which will bring updates & allow you chat with the group from your phone or tablet.

Are you just on the WhatsApp or have you paid?

charolais0153 wrote: »

If its a 10er a head. I dont think too many would mind

Where do you pay?

Sorry found the form on the site

nhg wrote: »

Many of you have probably heard a bit about the new Beef Plan Movement being set up.... I'm not involved in the setting up of it but I have joined as a member.

If you are interested in finding out more check it out at www.beefplan.ie

They are also set up on Whatsapp and Telegram which will bring updates & allow you chat with the group from your phone or tablet.

That link aint working for me

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Was this scheme formed by the IFA? If so why don't they put their name to it? I saw the poster in the mart and no mention of who was behind it? Another €10 to the IFA , no thanks.

Its not ifa.



Farmers confront meat industry with 86-poin
Farmers confront meat industry with 86-point draft beef plan
The draft of a new beef plan – titled ‘Beef Plan 2018-2025’ – was recently unveiled by a group of beef farmers in Co. Meath.

Put forward at a meeting last night (Monday, September 24), the document accuses the corporate sector of “systematically siphoning” profitability from farmers each year to the tune of €300 million.

The plan, seen by AgriLand, proposes 86 points across eight phases – from farm to abattoir – to address the issues of unsustainable farming and low prices.

It is believed that the draft plan was formulated by members of the Irish Farmers’ Association (IFA). It was also recently presented to beef farmers in Co. Louth and is expected to be shown to farmers in Co. Kildare over the coming weeks.

It is understood that the group behind the plan has described itself as “a representative group of knowledgeable beef farmers”.

The Plan
“Unless and until beef farmers can unite behind a workable beef plan which guarantees a fair price for their cattle, they and their families will continue to be working slaves for a dominant and extremely profitable corporate sector into the future,” the plan details.

The key objective is cost of production plus a margin for cattle sold, as a minimum base price, according to the plan.

The group alleges that Irish beef factories which claim to have no money are driving farmers out of finishing cattle, “taking over our yards at an alarming rate” and collapsing the price of cattle.
The farmers say that a beef plan for beef farmers is badly needed, similar to plans in place for retailers and factories.

The group has said that such a plan requires the backing of at least 60% of beef farmers and that it has submitted its plan to all farmer unions.

8 Phases
The proposed phases identify different aspects that need to be targeted, including: sustainable price and factories; animal health; purchasing groups; producer groups; farm safety; government schemes; farm unions; and abattoirs.


The first phase details handing in a list of demands to factories and looking for a response within a set time period – after which, a number of options would be implemented to disrupt cattle supplies.

Such measures would include: refusing to send in any cattle to any factory on a given day, at a few hours’ notice; refusing to supply a selected factory at short notice; and other such measures, up to and including bringing “all the factories to a stop”.
A suckler-bred bonus is also called for to reflect the increased cost of suckler-bred cattle compared to dairy-bred animals, the group says – while a confirmation bonus is also proposed.

A fair price for the fifth quarter for farmers is another proposal which has been put forward by the group in the plan.

‘Unfair Trading Practices’
Meanwhile, the group has issued a point seeking to clarify what exactly is defined as unfair trading practices and for a list to be furnished with evidence of such methods.

To underline such practices allegedly carried out by factories and retailers, the group proposes that a protest takes place outside the competition authority’s office on a continuing basis until demands are met.

Another proposal seeks the total number of calves born – over the next three years – to be reduced by 10%, albeit on a voluntary basis.

Producer groups are a key part of the plan put forward, with a target set for 50% of Irish beef cattle to be sold through producer groups in the next three years.
TB is another crucial concern in the plan, with a ramping up of measures such as badger and deer culling called for.

In addition, the plan calls for the levels of ‘red tape’ to be reduced and it states that a complete revision of the current TB Eradication Scheme should be carried out.

The plan is seen as a draft that can be adjusted and added to as circumstances change, the group contends.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

In the attached link above , Eamon Corley is introduced as the livestock chair of the Meath IFA. He is the spokesman for this new movement.

https://media.giphy.com/media/8WdsK61D9YOOc/200.gif

declanmo wrote: »

Hi folks,
I am a beef farmer from Mayo and I got involved in the Beef Plan group about 3 weeks ago. The group is completely voluntary and is currently made up of a committee of 36 beef farmers that represent all of the counties in the south of Ireland. Decisions are discussed and decided upon by this committee, the committee members are also county contacts so you will see our names on posters in your county. The group has no association with the IFA and is in no way part of the IFA, we are a standalone group. We are trying to work with as many groups and associations as possible in order to get enough support to implement our plan and improve the dire situation that we beef farmers in Ireland find ourselves in.

In relation to the different WhatsApp and Telegram groups, there is a limit of 257 users per WhatsApp group, as a result we have one of more WhatsApp groups per county and one overall Telegram group which can hold 100,000 users.

You can find lots of details about the group, our plan, and how to get involved on our website. (www beefplan ie) as well as the latest media articles etc.

Fair play to you, joined joined the Kerry WhatsApp group alrite and must send off the form in the morning. Most farmers I say it to don't seem to know about it atall. And allot of um wouldn't be the WhatsApp type iykwim. So ive printed a dose of the application forms and keep um in the jeep to give um out to lads as I meet lads. The worst that can happen is it fails I tell lads and their down the price of a couple of pints.
I think the whole thing needs some kind of greater visability to be honest or we'll be 10 years getting to 40k members.

TBH I am not sure about joining as far as I can see it seems to be another version of save the suckler farmer. Once again we see a group that is looking for special prices for suckler bred cattle. This leaves me in a quandry I agree with most of there agenda but I cannot see how any beef representative organisation can decide to Target a special price for one sector.

If we look a few weeks ago Foyle meats proposed a new pricing structure for cattle. They actually seems to Target the better quality cattle but had an upper weight limit of 380DW for cattle for this extra bonus. They were targeting steers and heifers. A suckler Bullock grading R+ at a base of 3.9/kg @360DW would gross about 1460 euro. I just cannot see suckler bred cattle being viable with present costs. If this magic bonus materialised it would need to be in the 30-50c range but processors will have to penalize dairy bred stock to pay for this. I think any group taking on processors needs to focus on the reality that is out there not on another save the suckers campaign

Bass Reeves wrote: »

TBH I am not sure about joining as far as I can see it seems to be another version of save the suckler farmer. Once again we see a group that is looking for special prices for suckler bred cattle. This leaves me in a quandry I agree with most of there agenda but I cannot see how any beef representative organisation can decide to Target a special price for one sector.

If we look a few weeks ago Foyle meats proposed a new pricing structure for cattle. They actually seems to Target the better quality cattle but had an upper weight limit of 380DW for cattle for this extra bonus. They were targeting steers and heifers. A suckler Bullock grading R+ at a base of 3.9/kg @360DW would gross about 1460 euro. I just cannot see suckler bred cattle being viable with present costs. If this magic bonus materialised it would need to be in the 30-50c range but processors will have to penalize dairy bred stock to pay for this. I think any group taking on processors needs to focus on the reality that is out there not on another save the suckers campaign

Jesus Christ bass were you molested by a suckler cow or something in the past. Anytime the subject pops up your dead down against um. Is it a stony grey soil of Monaghan situation with you or what.
The plan doesn't demand targeted support for the suckler sector what it will demand is a margin above the cost of production for all sections of the beef sector. Your beloved black and whites included.
If the suckler farmer can make a margin on the calf and the man finishing him or carrying him to forward store can make a margin isn't that a win win!
Criticise the plan for being over optimistic if you want but Jesus don't criticise lads sticking the head above the parapet trying to secure a workable margin for all of us.

TITANIUM. wrote: »

Jesus Christ bass were you molested by a suckler cow or something in the past. Anytime the subject pops up your dead down against um. Is it a stony grey soil of Monaghan situation with you or what.
The plan doesn't demand targeted support for the suckler sector what it will demand is a margin above the cost of production for all sections of the beef sector. Your beloved black and whites included.
If the suckler farmer can make a margin on the calf and the man finishing him or carrying him to forward store can make a margin isn't that a win win!
Criticise the plan for being over optimistic if you want but Jesus don't criticise lads sticking the head above the parapet trying to secure a workable margin for all of us.

The plan call for a premium for suckler bred beef. There is a premium already with the way the grid is set up along with the 12c QA premium. R grade cattle and better have a wider grid without penelties than O and P grading stock. The BP also calls for a confirmation premium for cattle is again a call for the widening of grid payments which will penalize O&P grading stock. I quote

A suckler-bred bonus is also called for to reflect the increased cost of suckler-bred cattle compared to dairy-bred animals, the group says – while a confirmation bonus is also proposed.

I agree totally with the rest of the plan and I have said many times about producer groups and that there needs to a look at anti competitive behaviour of factory controled feedlots. But the beef plan seems to be being skewered towards suckler cattle.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The plan call for a premium for suckler bred beef. There is a premium already with the way the grid is set up along with the 12c QA premium. R grade cattle and better have a wider grid without penelties than O and P grading stock. The BP also calls for a confirmation premium for cattle is again a call for the widening of grid payments which will penalize O&P grading stock. I quote

A suckler-bred bonus is also called for to reflect the increased cost of suckler-bred cattle compared to dairy-bred animals, the group says – while a confirmation bonus is also proposed.

I agree totally with the rest of the plan and I have said many times about producer groups and that there needs to a look at anti competitive behaviour of factory controled feedlots. But the beef plan seems to be being skewered towards suckler cattle.

Think of all the money youll make when you start buying charolais and limousin and blue weanlings;)

Never wrestle with pigs wrote: »

The suckler man takes allot more risk calving cows and a much more labor intensive system than a few black and whites you close the gate on in spring and have a look at any day it suits you.

When you enter any business you make choices. Just because a calf sucks a cow for a while is no reason that a special premium should be paid. If you think that finishing a few dairy bred cattle is only a matter of putting them in and closing the gate go to any mart and you will see a huge varity of weigths in cattle with much the same birthdays. It is not all down to breeding

Was in Killmallock for an hour today to waste a bit of time between jobs. I saw HEX and AA cattle Feb/March 2017 vary in weight from 340kgs to nearly 600kgs. The lighter ones made 300ish with there weight the ones that were 450-500 amde 400ish with there weight and the heavist nearly 500 with there weight. Now I would imagine that the cost of production between the lightest and heaviest would only be 100 euro at the most it easy to see who is making money. Most came from much the same land type.

I saw suckler bred bullocks again from 450 to over 600kgs. IMO lads with the heavier ones should be finishing them but mind with the prices paid I cannot see much of a margin for any finisher on some of them.

Finally I saw some Friesians again the heavy ones made the best money but the value was in the lighter ones from 380-420kgs. These in general made 5-550 euro. There was some right good ones that would make a good twist selling in next July/August but too many lads are too snobish to buy them. there was a June '17 born Friesian as well weighting well over 500kgs. much less friesians around compared to 12 months ago.

I have had two cases of peunomia in the last week in two stores. I spend Saturday housing the first of the stores and clipping there tails as well moving a bunch right accross the farm to the end of the grass. You will carry 2-3 stores where you carry a suckler cow yes you may be under less time pressure but they stall take up time.

So I look at this new BP movement and when I see statement like suckler bred bonus and confirmation bonus I have to question have these lads any idea of what they are at. It easy to stick your head above the parpet if you are going ahead with sweeties for the selected few. However you have to be hard nosed when dealing with the cartel and they will be quite willing to take 2-300 million euro out of farmers pockets and throw a few trinkets to suckler farmers.

pat73 wrote: »

I just saw an ad for this Beef plan,40,000 farmers needed,10 euro membership,It says This is a voluntary,not for profit organisation.If they get the 40,000 members at 10 euro a head thats 400,000 euro.Im not giving out about the ability of this organisation or the work thats going to be put in,but i would like to know what the break down of where or who gets that money,before i join up.

TBH 400K running an organisation like that is pea nuts. Telecommunication and IT will swallow 100K of it. You will need to pay some one to do a bit of paper work 30-50K including tax and PRSI. If you compensate a few at the top table for there time and their travel and out of pocket expenses it will take another chunk. Nobody will get rich out of it.

pat73 wrote:

I just saw an ad for this Beef plan,40,000 farmers needed,10 euro membership,It says This is a voluntary,not for profit organisation.If they get the 40,000 members at 10 euro a head thats 400,000 euro.Im not giving out about the ability of this organisation or the work thats going to be put in,but i would like to know what the break down of where or who gets that money,before i join up.

Jesus lads if we are that worried about a 10 euro joining fee, things are a lot worse than we think.

pat73 wrote: »

I think your missing the point in my text,I have plenty 10 euro notes if u want some ,all these could add up to 400,00 euro.it isn't like we haven't seen an organisation representing farmers with people on huge wages doing very little.

This is the point.
Full transparency in the finances is important from day 1.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

In the attached link above , Eamon Corley is introduced as the livestock chair of the Meath IFA. He is the spokesman for this new movement.

I watched the Agriland interview there, he seems disappointed possibly disillusioned even with the IFA, surely the formation of this organisation shows a failure of the IFA to properly motivate and represent beef producers in sufficient numbers.

DieselMad wrote: »

@Bass_Reeves I completely agree with the you in that the suckler bred animal should not be singled out for a premium of subsidy or elevated reward vs the typical dairy cross bred animal. Similar as was the underlying tone in the Save Our Sucklers campaign. Backed by the cronies in the Irish Farmers Journal. (Same guys who have no issue increasing their papers price year on year on these hard pressed farmers). By getting involved they got increased sales of their paper due to association with this campaign that they were at the forefront of initiating.



Both animals are meeting market requirements, It has been determined that there is no difference in eating quality of their respective meats ,in fact the suckler animal has a advantage over the dairy bred in that they have a higher feed efficiency conversion ration and will make heavier weights at younger ages. The suckler cow is able to make better use of more marginal land to produce a good sale able weanling. A good proportion of this land would not support the rearing and fattening of dairy bred beef which requires excellent grass growing skills and utilization to make a reasonable profit.

Maybe the premium should be to the farmer fattening dairy cross bred beef due to all the issues that he/she has to overcome with the less efficient animals that they are fattening!

I too was in Kilmallock mart on Monday, and did note that Friesian stores were extremely scarce on the ground. From my experience to date, a reasonable friesian that will often make as good a profit as any of the cross traditional breeds that I buy to fatten. They will take longer and often will go over the 30 months, but will make it back in the weight gain they throw on in Sep/Oct. No point having them under 30 months anyway as they will struggle to make the grade for the 12c QA bonus.

These animals should be just as entitled to this 12c bonus as any suckler animal. Seeing as they will end up in the same restaurant on the same menu there is no reason why not, save for the nonsence that they don't make a grade benchmark that was set up by the factories in the knowledge that this is where the majority of their stock grade just not requiring them to pay out!

So you "completely agree" with Bass Reeves and both of you happened to be in Kilmallock mart at the same time. Its a small world.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Suckler bred stock not only kill out at a higher %, they also have higher meat to bone ratios. This isn't always reflected in the grid price. Believe me the beef barons don't want to see the end of the suckler cow either.

No the beef barons do not want to see the end of suckler beef. Neither do they want to see the end of friesian beef or even JEX beef. The more beef the less they pay for the product.

What they want suckler beef for in general is the winter finishing system killing in the 330-380kg bracket. However it is uneconomical to kill suckler for this market. The heavier carcasses go onto the Continental market that is not as profitable as cattle into the UK market. It is intresting to see beef prices at present France si the same as us, only Poland and the Netherlands is cheaper one is 20c/kg cheaper and the other is 30c/kg cheaper both young bull prices.

The issue is at what price is it viable to produce suckler beef in Ireland and what market is that targetted at. What weight confirmation and fatscore will these cattle be. It is interesting on Mart prices thread to see lads complaining about suckler bred weanling, they seems to expect suckler bred weanling in the 300ishkg bracket to make 3/kg. This is not a viable price in the Irish system. Such a weanling would want to come into 1800 euro at slaughter as a two year old. If factor spec is in the 360kg bracket we need the beef from them to be at 5/kg.

Guys, what would your opinion be on a 'Beef Futures Market'. I've mentioned it here numerous times and nobody has commented on it.
They have one in the USA. I wouldnt know the ins and outs of it, to be honest, but my understanding is it allows finishers to take a hedged position to offset any unforseen loses. A kind of insurance policy against falling beef prices.
Ryainair for example do this against rising oil prices.

What do they want the weanling and store producing farmers to do? The finishers are to hold stock on the receipt of a text message.
Fattening bulls is costing up to €4 a day plus when they are fit to go they have to go. Age limits etc will also be a problem. If I Book cattle in today it'll be the week after next before they are killed. If I get a message that day will I have to wait another 10 days before I kill?
Not knocking the group by the way.