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General British politics discussion thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    It is just more fuel for the fire if the National Insurance rises go ahead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    it is.

    Spaeking with a British Indian friend from Hounslow this weekend though and she believes this has secured the female Indian vote for the Tories for the foreseeable future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,062 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    That last line says it all about how you view people complaining about this: "How dare the lower orders question the way their betters pay tax!" This is either a brilliant parody or a conplete lost cause.

    That elitism isn't going to win any votes. Or at least it shouldn't.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Like I said earlier, her biggest crime seems to be a billionaires daughter.

    No, her biggest crime is, voluntarily, availing of a tax break that saves her a huge amount of UK tax, and her husband is the Chancellor of the Exchecker that sets those tax breaks. He could very easily revoke those tax breaks, only for the many Russian and other donors to his party.

    Given that tax break is only of value to the very wealthy and saves tax on huge earnings, while her husband is introducing new taxes that hit the poor, and the not so poor, but not his wife.

    I think that is not a good look for her, her husband, or the Tory Party as a whole. I wonder what the new converts in the Red Wall constituencies think of it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    you can get as outraged as you like, it's the truth.

    Plebs, of course, being the general populace.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    sorry, what tax breaks is she availing of?

    She pays tax on her UK income, the only thing she doesn't pay UK tax on, is her income from her shares in an Indian company.

    Quite why the UK chancellor should be entitled to tax dividends an Indian citizen makes on profits made by an Indian company purely because she chooses to stay in the UK with her husband for more than 183 days, I'm not sure, but there you go. She's rich so she guilty.

    I wish I could get some of the tax breaks for my company that Apple gets, but that's life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,519 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    That's not what tax domicile means - you're referring to the rules on Tax residency.

    Tax domicile relates to your permanent home - so the question here is whether she maintains a home outside of the UK (i.e. in India) and whether she genuinely plans to permanently return to that home country in the near to medium term future.

    I've never been much of a fan of Government's claiming the right to tax incomes that are earned abroad and never remitted into the country claiming the taxes. Put it this way - Patrick Collison lives in California and pays US taxes on whatever incomes he earns from Stripe over there.

    If Collison decided to purchase a pub in Limerick, should the US Government automatically have the right to tax any income Collison receives from that - even if the money never leaves Ireland?


    I don't like Sunak, or much of what I've heard about his wife either, but the "tax-dodging" stuff isn't the stick I'd be choosing to criticise them for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭noel50


    Tax only for the working class do not tax the wealthy sounds fair to me



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    US is even more fun. Yer man Collison would owe state income tax to Ca for money earned overseas, if he kept a California residence (which he does.) California's notorious for chasing down every penny of tax revenue so I imagine it's being paid.


    Federal tax on income earned overseas is very much a thing in the US. It is interesting that you can buy your way out of that in the UK if you pay for the privilege, but I think that might be an oversimplification of how it works, I only know what's been described in this thread.

    And, is there any doubt as to what a kip the UK is? Would this tax dodge be made available to any Ukrainian refugees that succeed in getting visas to stay in the UK? If they're in the UK long enough and declare income from both countries, will they be able to claim 'non domiciled?'



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    now I understand where you are coming from. this is about xenophobia rather than actual concerns about Ukrainian refugees or tax evasion.

    Glad I noted that before wasting anymore time on you or Sam Russell.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I find it remarkable that there are always people who will swoop in to defend billionaires when they are shown up to be doing things like this that, although are not illegal (which is a whole different story), are morally dubious.

    I'm not sure if they do it because

    1. They hold the deluded belief that they too will someday be super wealthy (as is often the case with Americans who stan the super wealthy)
    2. They see themselves as libertarians who find the idea of taxation in general as problematic and admire the billionaires for getting one over on the taxman
    3. It's ok....as long as it's "their" side who are doing it.

    It's bad enough that they're doing it in the first place. The fact that there are lickspittles out there eager to tell everyone that it's actually good and proper is frankly, nauseating.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    **** billionaires, going around building up a huge global business and giving thousands of people employment.

    They should all be taxed to death.

    such a shame out entire economy is dependent on tax avoidance schemes and we will return to the eighties, but at least those **** billionaires will be taken down a peg or two.

    In the United States, you look at the guy that lives in the mansion on the hill, and you think, you know, one day, if I work really hard, I could live in that mansion. In Ireland, people look up at the guy in the mansion on the hill and go, one day, I'm going to get that bastard.




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Correct. UK xenophobia as policy of and legislation passed by the government of the UK.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Nice strawman.

    There is a world between the extremes of giving billionaires free-reign to ride roughshod over everyone else and "taxing them to death".

    Asking them to pay their fair share is not only the right and decent thing to do it's also what is best for the economy. Having a billionaire throw another few million or billion, saved on taxes, into their pile is an entirely unproductive use of that money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    It isn't a strawman at all. your post comes across as just a simple case of bash the rich, because they are rich .

    Why is taxing someone on money they make abroad, that never comes into the country, fair? That money is made in India, surely the fair thing is for the tax earned to remain in India



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    but i dont think she pays much taxes in india either as it seems some of her her wealth is parked in the tax heaven of Mauritius.

    and it would appear she did not pay her fair tax dues in the uk either in the past

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/30/rishi-sunak-wife-akshata-murty-imm-mauritius-india-tax



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    did you read the article before you posted it?



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think the quote is for the boss man who turns up to his work in his brand new Lamborghini and says to his workers - 'If you work really hard and all the hours that there are and make us lots of profit, then next year, I'll be able to buy another new one!'

    The billionaires of this world pay little to no tax anywhere. There are plenty of poor countries that are willing to help them hide all their wealth for just a tiny fee - or sometimes a big bribe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    shouldn't you be posting this on the Irish politics thread?

    The UK starts implementing charges after six years and after fifteen the ability to be non dom ceases. This is relatively new and is one reason why the number of non doms in the UK is dropping and predicted to fall by 26%.

    Guess where they are tipped to be moving to.....

    But when the entire economy is based on tax avoidance, it is hardly surprising.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭peter kern


    are you suggesting she pays and will pay all her taxes in india as you argue she should



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    who knows. The article you linked to certainly doesn't back up either of your points one way or the other.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,464 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Sunaks wife built up sweet FA. Daddy gave her loads of money and shares.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    oh well then she should definitely be burned at the stake.

    How dare a father give his children anything, least of all a massive 0.9% share of a company he helped to create.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,464 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    The social construct is that when you are born into that kind of privilege you share a bit otherwise the "plebs" (as you so disgustingly put them) will get angry.

    Of course she she get a share of her families wealth nobody here is denying her that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,519 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    I object to imperialism via tax systems - especially when it results in double taxation. If an Indian citizen is earning income in India, from an Indian business, paying Indian income taxes on that income, and never moves a penny of the income to the UK, then there's no justification on the UK trying to grab a second slice of taxes from that same income.

    It's amazing the amount of individuals who see punitive double taxation as an outlet for their bitterness - maybe it's how they like to work out their own personal failings in life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Fasano


    is there any suggestion that she isn't sharing any of it?

    The Infosys Foundation is highly regarded in India, particularly around the Bangalore area, Murty herself is also reported to do plenty of philanthropic work, including with the Gates foundation.

    Just because she chooses to pay her taxes in India where lets face it, the wealth is actually being created, does not mean she doesn't give back.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,396 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Well, according to Ch4 news, she has decided to pay UK tax on al her earnings in India. Now it is unclear whether it is from today (start of a new tax year in the UK is 6th April) or whether she will pay tax from when she arrived in the UK and declared herself non-dom.

    She will not give up her Indian passport or her non-dom status.

    Questions remain - Johnson denies he leaked her non-dom status. There remains a question of whether she benefited from leaks from her husband re tax changes.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,786 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight



    There's also the visuals of someone living in No. 11 Downing Street at the taxpayer's expense, gaming the tax system whose rules are determined by her husband.

    If she will now pay tax , doesn't that mean the Sunak's at Number 11 will be paying millions more than if hubbie resigned ? and if so is doing the job worth that much ?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,407 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Guess where they are tipped to be moving to.....

    For a lot of them nowhere, the reduction in non-doms is partly people simply giving up or losing the status but remaining in the UK.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    A population in excess of 67 million, a wealthy economy, but xenophobia is the backbone policy of the Tories. A measly 12000 refugees in England, 40000 approved visas (out of like 80000 that can wade through the complex, English-only application): https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/08/ukraine-refugees-uk-12000-arrived-visa-schemes


    Even the suddenly invisible Priti Patel "apologized."


    Oh, the Home Office passport system and passport delivery system (a private contractor because outsourcing) is a catastrophe for people renewing. Now they say wait 12 weeks, whether you apply for express service or not: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/apr/09/meltdown-at-uk-passport-renewals-forces-travellers-to-cancel-easter-breaks


    I just love how the English public just takes it. What a nation of sheep.



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