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Woman finds out that her boyfriend is actually her female best friend...

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭mikeym


    I wouldnt have took the case to court I would have went to Jerry Springer or Jeremy Kyle :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    There's a new report on this here.

    It's hilarious to read.

    What a hilarious sexual assault!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    How can it be rape if she consented?

    Rape by deception.


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,731 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    sxt wrote: »
    What exactly is she being charged with? :confused:

    Concealed weapon .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    How can it be rape if she consented?

    She very clearly didn't consent to have sex with this individual.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I know I haven't been sitting through all the evidence but I have read the court transcripts from each day.

    I'm totally fcuking amazed that she was found guilty.

    Seems like a bad decision to me.

    How anyone could believe that after having sex about 10 times, going out in public and spending at least 100 hours together....that she didn't realise it was her friend all along and not the man of her dreams.

    Come on. Crazy decision.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Close your eyes and open your mouth


  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭Wildlife Actor


    She very clearly didn't consent to have sex with this individual.

    She did!!! "This individual" was the person she spent 100 ours with and had sex ten times with. The individual simply misdescribed her gender and the 'victim' voluntarily and literally shut her eyes to the truth.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    She did!!! "This individual" was the person she spent 100 ours with and had sex ten times with. The individual simply misdescribed her gender and the 'victim' voluntarily and literally shut her eyes to the truth.

    Please show us how you have concluded with absolutely no doubt that this was "voluntary".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    She did!!! "This individual" was the person she spent 100 ours with and had sex ten times with. The individual simply misdescribed her gender and the 'victim' voluntarily and literally shut her eyes to the truth.

    No she didn't and thankfully a court of law agrees that she didn't.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I know I haven't been sitting through all the evidence but I have read the court transcripts from each day.

    I'm totally fcuking amazed that she was found guilty.

    Seems like a bad decision to me.

    How anyone could believe that after having sex about 10 times, going out in public and spending at least 100 hours together....that she didn't realise it was her friend all along and not the man of her dreams.

    Come on. Crazy decision.

    Ya something really feels off about the whole thing. I mean THAT much time and everything would make it very difficult to believe the "victim" didnt know what was really going on. Hiding the boobs and hat is a dead giveaway for crying out loud.

    As far as i can see with the whole thing.....

    http://memecrunch.com/meme/19LGS/bull****-detector/image.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭arayess


    i don't know how the jury found her guilty. the evidence is just so bizarre

    i believe it to be a stupid case and the accused is innocent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,400 ✭✭✭Medusa22


    I'm not trying to be transphobic and this is a genuine question, but legally speaking, is it deemed to be deception if a transgender person who is pre-op has sex with someone without disclosing their physical sex, are there legal repercussions? Is it the same as the case here?

    Say, for example, a transgender pre-op woman who still has a penis, has anal sex with a man but doesn't reveal that she has a penis and the man later finds out, then is this considered some form of sexual assault.

    Or if a transgender man has sex with a woman using a strap-on in the dark, then is this deemed as some form of deception or sexual assault? I'm just curious, not looking to create tension.


  • Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭Wildlife Actor


    Kev W wrote: »
    Please show us how you have concluded with absolutely no doubt that this was "voluntary".

    Fact: she agreed to use the blindfold.
    Fact: ten times.
    No she didn't and thankfully a court of law agrees that she didn't.

    Yes and a court of law acquitted rapist Alexander Pacteau before he killed Karen Buckley.

    Decisions of a jury do not foreclose debate on a fundamental question: how informed must consent be? If I sneak a woman onto a billionaire's yacht pretending it to be mine, have sex with her, and she then finds out the truth that I'm packing shelves in Lidl, have I committed rape?

    If no, what marks gender disclosure out for such special treatment?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    She very clearly didn't consent to have sex with this individual.

    She very clearly did consent to having sex with the individual who she had sex with.

    A dangerous precedent to set (luckily, in Ireland we have not done this) in deciding this was rape or sexual assault. Where would it lead? A guy gets accused of rape when he (knowingly lying) promises to spend his life with the girl so they jump into bed together?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    I find it absolutely unbelievable that she didn't know:

    1. That she was with a woman, especially when they got intimate.

    2. That she didn't realise that this woman was her best friend.

    Ah come on, over 100 hours and she didn't recognise that it was her friends voice, or even a woman's voice???

    Sex 10 times and lots of other contact and she didn't twig that it was a woman???

    I call bullsh1t.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭arayess


    She very clearly did consent to having sex with the individual who she had sex with.

    A dangerous precedent to set (luckily, in Ireland we have not done this) in deciding this was rape or sexual assault. Where would it lead? A guy gets accused of rape when he (knowingly lying) promises to spend his life with the girl so they jump into bed together?

    it's kinda bizarre reminded me of this case which I believe is abhorrent but that's israel for you.



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7901025/Palestinian-jailed-for-rape-after-claiming-to-be-Jewish.html
    A Palestinian man has been convicted of rape after having consensual sex with an Israeli woman who believed he was Jewish because he introduced himself as "Daniel".



    By Adrian Blomfield in Jerusalem 10:00PM BST 20 Jul 2010
    A court in Jerusalem has made international legal history by jailing Sabbar Kashur, a 30-year-old delivery man from East Jerusalem, for 18 months.
    He was convicted of "rape by deception" following a criminal trial that has drawn criticism from across Israel.
    The court heard accusations that Mr Kashur misled the woman, whose identity has not been disclosed, by introducing himself with the traditionally Jewish name during a chance encounter on a street in central Jerusalem in 2008.
    After striking up a conversation, the two went into a top-floor room of a nearby office-block and engaged in a sexual encounter, after which Mr Kashur left before the woman had a chance to get dressed. It was only later that she discovered Mr Kashur's true racial background, lawyers said.
    Although conceding that the sex was consensual, district court judge Tzvi Segal concluded that the law had a duty to protect women from "smooth-tongued criminals who can deceive innocent victims at an unbearable price"
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    "If she hadn't thought the accused was a Jewish bachelor interested in a serious romantic relationship, she would not have co-operated," Mrs Segal said as she delivered her verdict.
    A conviction for rape by deception on the grounds of racial misrepresentation is believed to be internationally unprecedented, according to British legal experts.
    The charge is rarely used in the West. In 2007, a Syrian pilot walked free from a court in Swansea after being accused of tricking a woman into intercourse by saying it could cure her of a sexually transmitted disease.
    A court in Massachusetts also acquitted a man who allegedly masqueraded as his twin-brother in order to have sex with the man's wife.
    While forced sex by deception is an offence under Israeli law, legal experts say it is a charge used sparingly in cases involving protracted deceit and a promise of marriage.
    Kashur was originally accused of violent rape and indecent assault, but later accepted the lesser charge under a plea-bargain after prosecutors received evidence suggesting the encounter was consensual.
    Kashur’s lawyer, Adnan Aladdin, said he had filed an appeal to ensure that the verdict was not considered precedent-setting, adding that otherwise “many men would find themselves in jail.”
    Israeli legal experts said they found the verdict disquieting.
    "In the context of Israeli society, you can see that some women would feel very strongly that they had been violated by someone who says he is Jewish but is not," said a former senior justice ministry official.
    "The question is whether the state should punish somebody in that situation. It puts the law in the position of what could loosely be described as discrimination. I would feel intuitively uncomfortable about prosecuting someone for something like that."
    Asked whether his client was the victim of racial discrimination, Mr Aladdin said he "would rather not comment". Others, however, were scathing.
    Gideon Levy, a leading liberal commentator, said: "I would like to raise only one question with the judge. What if this guy had been a Jew who pretended to be a Muslim and had sex with a Muslim woman. Would he have been convicted of rape? The answer is: of course not."
    Israeli human rights activists said that Kashur's actions reflected the deceits many Palestinians practise when in Israel in an attempt to avoid official and private prejudice because of their background.
    "It is very well known that Israeli-Palestinians living in Israel disguise themselves," said Leah Tsemel, a human-rights lawyer. "You change your accent and you change your dress because if you look like an Arab you face harassment.
    "If you want to enter a pub, you'd better not look like an Arab and if you want to have sex with an Israeli girl, you had better not look like an Arab."
    The prosecutor in the case was unavailable for comment and officials in the Jerusalem district attorney's office declined to discuss it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    We all have had sex with someone we wished we never met, I'm sure. But if you consented at the time, then it's more of a mistake, rather than assault.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    We all have had sex with someone we wished we never met, I'm sure. But if you consented at the time, then it's more of a mistake, rather than assault.

    It's not a mistake, though. The woman agreed to have sex with a man named Kye. She did not consent to sex with a woman named gayle


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,562 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    We all have had sex with someone we wished we never met, I'm sure. But if you consented at the time, then it's more of a mistake, rather than assault.

    I guess it is something of a grey area where 'I'm a pilot' or 'I make 100k a year as a hedge fund manager' or 'I'm a graduate student (rather than say a 2nd year) or even 'Sure, I'm single' meets 'I don't just look like Ricky Martin, I actually am him' or 'I am a guy, trust me (just don't look).

    When does the deception cross a legal line?

    If we remove if from the area of sex (and maybe that's not something that's possible) and just look at the fraud/deception - if a person pretended to be a hedge fund manager to con 10grand in savings out of somebody, they'd be breaking the law, and the fact that the person consented to giving the money wouldn't be a defence, as it was consent gained through deception.

    Can we apply that logic to convincing somebody to sleep with them?

    If so, where is the line between illegal deception and something which, while it is probably morally dubious, is not illegal?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I would think the onus is on the woman to actually know if the person she's getting that intimate with is a male or a female. I mean you can't call someone your boyfriend for two years and then claim you've no idea what he looked like. It's not like the woman was transgendered and claiming to be a man with lady plumbing. i can't see her reasoning for being "fooled" when she spoke to "the man" on the phone, realised he sounded like a female and still let him have sex with her.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I think the very basics of having sex with someone is boiling down to actually determining their gender, and what they look like. After that, lying about their job or bank account - well there's not much you can do to prevent that happening but actually knowing what the person looks like, well that's your responsibility.
    No face = no sex.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    I think the very basics of having sex with someone is boiling down to actually determining their gender, and what they look like. After that, lying about their job or bank account - well there's not much you can do to prevent that happening but actually knowing what the person looks like, well that's your responsibility.
    No face = no sex.

    I agree with you on that. I mean, who the hell fcuks someone and dates them for two years without knowing who they are or what they look like? I sure as hell wouldn't.

    The problem is, the victim in question is obviously a very, very stupid woman with some major issues to have believed the ridiculous story from Newland. However, the jury decided that she DID believe it. She was stupid, yes, but if she truly believed she was fcuking a man, she was having sex under deceptive terms, not what she consented to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    I agree with you on that. I mean, who the hell fcuks someone and dates them for two years without knowing who they are or what they look like? I sure as hell wouldn't.

    The problem is, the victim in question is obviously a very, very stupid woman with some major issues to have believed the ridiculous story from Newland. However, the jury decided that she DID believe it. She was stupid, yes, but if she truly believed she was fcuking a man, she was having sex under deceptive terms, not what she consented to.

    Legally you are right. If only there was a law to protect people from their own stupidity and gullibility.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Menas wrote: »
    Legally you are right. If only there was a law to protect people from their own stupidity and gullibility.

    Her family should have warned her too. I mean, c'mon, what family thinks it's normal for their daughter/sister to wear a blindfold every time she sees her partner?!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Imagine that. Hey babe, popping over for Netflix and chillin, can you put on that big massive blindfold when I'm outside? I'll text you when I'm there xo


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,002 ✭✭✭Wossack


    It's not a mistake, though. The woman agreed to have sex with a man named Kye. She did not consent to sex with a woman named gayle

    I think there should be a bit of due diligence to be fair.. ludicrous decision imo

    what do you reckon my chances are of suing my ex who wore a push up bra?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I find it absolutely unbelievable that she didn't know:

    1. That she was with a woman, especially when they got intimate.

    2. That she didn't realise that this woman was her best friend.

    Ah come on, over 100 hours and she didn't recognise that it was her friends voice, or even a woman's voice???

    Sex 10 times and lots of other contact and she didn't twig that it was a woman???

    I call bullsh1t.


    There are women who are built in such a way that they could pass for men. One look at the pictures can tell you that the one just found guilty isn't one of them, regardless of blindfolds, masks and arc welders helmets. They both have issues, but only one of them is now going to end up as a registered sex offender and its with them my sympathy lies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Nodin wrote: »
    There are women who are built in such a way that they could pass for men. One look at the pictures can tell you that the one just found guilty isn't one of them, regardless of blindfolds, masks and arc welders helmets. They both have issues, but only one of them is now going to end up as a registered sex offender and its with them my sympathy lies.

    She will probably do jail..............that's pretty much what the Judge said.

    I'm still absolutely amazed that the other woman's evidence was found to be credible.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,021 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Wossack wrote: »
    I think there should be a bit of due diligence to be fair.. ludicrous decision imo

    what do you reckon my chances are of suing my ex who wore a push up bra?

    Hmm.. what about a guy not telling his partner that he uses viagra,or claiming his lad is fourteen inches, or "she told me she was 18, your honour!"

    Due diligence might be trickier in some cases, I suppose..

    Crazy verdict, crazy people.


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