Covid-19 likely to be man made

robinph · 24-02-2021 3:04pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If I see an enormous amount of hospitalisations and deaths listed shortly after MRNA vaccination,

Do you?

Give us some numbers of people dying shortly after being vaccinated, and also the number of people who were vaccinated.

If you have 100 people dying out of 1000 then there is a big problem. If you have 100 people dying out of 65 million then not so much. Need to investigate what those 100 people actually died of of course, but they are very different situations.

Give us the numbers behind your claim of enormous.

24-02-2021 3:07pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You are trying to peddle misleading anti-vaccine Bitchute videos as "sources" of information. They aren't.

Lol, you still talking about Bitchute.

You've just been linked to the official database containing a huge list of hospitalisations / deaths reported shortly after MRNA vaccination. I had saw it originally mentioned in a Bitchute video. Turns out the bitchute video was correct. Which is a good thing as we now all have access to this official vaccine report database. I'm sure you can agree with that.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Interesting to note that in these threads, people with extreme views and beliefs are much more likely to be anti-vaxxers. I'd say it's approaching 100%.

Yawn. To borrow some reddit-speak: you got rekt today, Dohn. And you're salty because of it :pac: Lighten up.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

But clearly not a real one.

You have no proof of this. I just may be the very person to administer your vaccine

I kid. Alright lads. You're both finished. See ya's later, for real.

King Mob · 24-02-2021 3:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The database was down temporarily a while back, but thankfully now for all of us, it's back up. Irrelevant point you're trying to make here.

I'm highlighting the fact you claimed the database was down in a lazy attempt to make it seem like something was being covered up.

Deleted User wrote: »

You also said you suspected I was making the database up. Wrong again, evidently.

Yes, I was wrong. Typically when conspiracy theorists are posting crank bitchute videos and claiming that the evidence has vanished, it's usually because the evidence doesn't exist.

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, the hospitalisation/death reports I pasted are directly from the database. It's right in front of you. You can trawl through the rest of it yourself. You'll be there a while, as it's a rather large list.

Ok. So what does this list prove?
Are you claiming that the deaths are more than are being reported?
Are you claiming that the number of deaths are greater than other vaccines or medical treatments?

Deleted User wrote: »

The little disclaimer re: conclusions is par for course with any database. If I see an enormous amount of hospitalisations and deaths listed shortly after MRNA vaccination, I can make up my own mind re: risk assessment.

But the database states directly that it's data shouldn't be used to make risk assessment.
And again, you use words like "enormous" but you don't seem to be able to put any solid figure to that.

How many hospitalisation and deaths occured due to the vaccine?

Deleted User wrote: »

As can others. Again, you're clutching at straws as you've been proven wrong.

What have I been proven wrong about exactly?

Deleted User wrote: »

You don't ask difficult questions. You ask irrelevant questions that try to take things around in circles. This has been said to you many times before by numerous people.

Yes, that's what you tell yourself to justify your dodging.
No one else sees it that way.

Also,
"Why do you believe this data supports your conspiracy theory".
Totally irrelevant question according to you...

Dohnjoe · 24-02-2021 3:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You've just been linked to the official database containing a huge list of hospitalisations / deaths reported shortly after MRNA vaccination. I had saw it originally mentioned in a Bitchute video. Turns out the bitchute video was correct. Which is a good thing as we now all have access to this official vaccine report database. I'm sure you can agree with that.

You've linked this database: https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html

Note the first line:

"The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database contains information on unverified reports of adverse events (illnesses, health problems and/or symptoms) following immunization with US-licensed vaccines. Reports are accepted from anyone and can be submitted electronically at www.vaers.hhs.gov."

As such it's for reference only and the info hasn't been verified
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=10m37s&v=cOH7cFWS7o4&feature=youtu.be

Thousands of Americans die on an average day in the US, there are millions of people being currently vaccinated, mainly starting with the elderly. This database is a list of people who have died after having taken the vaccine, and there's no time limit, e.g. someone could have had the vaccine administered and died 3 days or 3 weeks later due to old age, and they'd be on the list. So with thousands of people dying every day and millions being vaccinated, it's unsurprising that the list contains deaths in correlation with vaccination. Correlation does not equal causation.

The CDC, who run this list have confirmed the below:

“CDC follows up on any report of death to request additional information and learn more about what occurred and to determine whether the death was a result of the vaccine or unrelated.”

“To date, VAERS has not detected patterns in cause of death that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines.”

Anti-vaxxers are abusing this list, selecting death as a parameter and making videos scrolling through that list to insinuate a lot of people have died as a result of the vaccine.

In summary: you're parroting anti-vax hysteria

PintOfView · 24-02-2021 11:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

...
Like I said, worth looking into re: MRNA vaccines. Seems there is a significant amount of related hospitalizations and deaths listed. Again, that's from the official database, I'm just sharing the link.

But is it significant, in reality?

As others have said, doesn't it depend on how many people were vaccinated?

We had 150 people die on Irish roads last year. If we only had 10,000 drivers that would be an enormous percentage of fatalities.
Out of something like 2.5m people with driving licences, it's not good, but it's not such a big number.

So to judge the significance of deaths suspected of being linked to the vaccine we need to know:
a) The number of people who died where it's suspected the vaccine was a factor
b) The number of people vaccinated

Do you have those numbers?

25-02-2021 11:05am

PintOfView wrote: »

So to judge the significance of deaths suspected of being linked to the vaccine we need to know:
a) The number of people who died where it's suspected the vaccine was a factor
b) The number of people vaccinated

Do you have those numbers?

It's said less than 10% of adverse reactions are reported to the database. True number likely a lot higher.

It's the same situation re: numbers of people who died from Covid, or who just died with Covid. If someone goes into hospital very sick with underlying conditions, happens to catch Covid in there, then passes away, they're being recorded as Covid deaths. That's the criteria. The official figure therefor cannot be accurate, so we have no idea what the real amount of deaths from Covid actually is.

All I will say re: people passing away 30 mins post vaccine etc is this:
If I feel fine, eat a takeaway, then suddenly start throwing up everywhere 30 mins later, I feel it highly likely it's related to the takeaway I just ate.

robinph · 25-02-2021 11:11am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's said less than 10% of adverse reactions are reported to the database. True number likely a lot higher.

Is that less than 10% of deaths shortly after vaccination, or less than 10% of people who had a slightly itchy arm or a bit of a mild headache?

What are your numbers for the claims of "enormous" reactions from yesterday? Out of how many people vaccinated is this?

PintOfView · 25-02-2021 2:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's said less than 10% of adverse reactions are reported to the database. True number likely a lot higher.

It's the same situation re: numbers of people who died from Covid, or who just died with Covid. If someone goes into hospital very sick with underlying conditions, happens to catch Covid in there, then passes away, they're being recorded as Covid deaths. That's the criteria. The official figure therefor cannot be accurate, so we have no idea what the real amount of deaths from Covid actually is.

All I will say re: people passing away 30 mins post vaccine etc is this:
If I feel fine, eat a takeaway, then suddenly start throwing up everywhere 30 mins later, I feel it highly likely it's related to the takeaway I just ate.

I can imagine that only 10% of mild reactions (skin irritation, etc.) might get reported.
However I would imagine that death is very likely to be reported if it's associated with the vaccine!

Anyway I just had a look at the numbers for you:

656 = deaths which were linked to the vaccine (but the system warns these are unverified)
66,464,947 = already got the vaccine
66,464,291 = didn't die (that's 66 million)

22,000 = the number of excess deaths in one week alone in December in the US
(from all causes- but we can safely assume covid was vast majority of them)
See https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Are you able to look at that overall scenario and not see clearly what is happening?
and then start quibbling about 'with covid' vs 'of covid', etc?

King Mob · 25-02-2021 2:52pm

PintOfView wrote: »

Anyway I just had a look at the numbers for you:

656 = deaths which were linked to the vaccine (but the system warns these are unverified)
66,464,947 = already got the vaccine
66,464,291 = didn't die (that's 66 million)

Remember that we were being told that the death rate of covid (about 1-2%) was not a big deal.

But now we're being told that a possible death rate of 0.00098% is a massive deal?

(This is why conspiracy theorists didn't want to discuss the numbers.)

04-03-2021 8:04pm

PintOfView wrote: »

I can imagine that only 10% of mild reactions (skin irritation, etc.) might get reported.
However I would imagine that death is very likely to be reported if it's associated with the vaccine!

Anyway I just had a look at the numbers for you:

656 = deaths which were linked to the vaccine (but the system warns these are unverified)
66,464,947 = already got the vaccine
66,464,291 = didn't die (that's 66 million)

22,000 = the number of excess deaths in one week alone in December in the US
(from all causes- but we can safely assume covid was vast majority of them)
See https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

Are you able to look at that overall scenario and not see clearly what is happening?
and then start quibbling about 'with covid' vs 'of covid', etc?

After a brief hiatus, I can now address this point.

We have no idea, obviously, what percentage of deaths and hospitalisations are actually reported to this database. If it's 10%, you can multiply the 656 deaths by 10. If it's only 1%, multiply it by 100. Etc etc.

All of us are only guessing, really, so we'll have to leave it at that. I hope that's the extent of deaths, of course, but can't be proven either way.

04-03-2021 8:07pm

King Mob wrote: »

Remember that we were being told that the death rate of covid (about 1-2%) was not a big deal.

But now we're being told that a possible death rate of 0.00098% is a massive deal?

Or 0.0098%, or 0.098%. See above; we just don't know.

King Mob wrote: »

(This is why conspiracy theorists didn't want to discuss the numbers.)

Conspiracy analysts are usually happy to discuss numbers. No different here.

Dohnjoe · 04-03-2021 10:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Or 0.0098%, or 0.098%. See above; we just don't know.

Tens of thousands trialed vaccines last year, so we do have an idea. If you are suggesting that 0.09% of people "might be" dying due to the vaccine, that means we would have had 600 people dying during a trial of 40k people straight off the bat.

04-03-2021 11:12pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Or 0.0098%, or 0.098%. See above; we just don't know.

Conspiracy analysts are usually happy to discuss numbers. No different here.

Thank you Dr Frost. It's interesting to get a medical perspective on things.

Timberrrrrrrr · 04-03-2021 11:13pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thank you Dr Frost. It's interesting to get a medical perspective on things.

:pac:

04-03-2021 11:19pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Tens of thousands trialed vaccines last year, so we do have an idea. If you are suggesting that 0.09% of people "might be" dying due to the vaccine, that means we would have had 600 people dying during a trial of 40k people straight off the bat.

0.09% of 40k is 600?

You'd want to fix your calculator, Dohn.

robinph · 04-03-2021 11:40pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

After a brief hiatus, I can now address this point.

We have no idea, obviously, what percentage of deaths and hospitalisations are actually reported to this database. If it's 10%, you can multiply the 656 deaths by 10. If it's only 1%, multiply it by 100. Etc etc.

All of us are only guessing, really, so we'll have to leave it at that. I hope that's the extent of deaths, of course, but can't be proven either way.

Whilst reporting of symptoms due to a vaccine might happen to be stated as only 10%, its because of people being too lazy to report that they had a mild scratch on their arm.

The more severe the symptoms, the more likely it is to be reported. Or are you claiming that there are thousands, or tens of thousand, of people dying but without being included in any statistics?

It is known exactly who has died, and when, and from what cause. It's all recorded on their death certificate, so unless there is a big black hole all these people dying from covid vaccines are falling into then you're talking nonsense.

If someone has died from covid that is recorded, if someone has had a vaccine and still dies from covid that is recorded, if someone dies from an allergic reaction to a vaccine then that is recorded, if someone dies falling off a ladder then that is recorded.

Where are your claims of deaths from vaccines from? Show the numbers if they exist. If the don't exist then it didn't happen.

Number of people with scratchy arms we can only estimate, number of deaths we know exactly.

King Mob · 04-03-2021 11:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Or 0.0098%, or 0.098%. See above; we just don't know.

Well no, this isn't true.
You are claiming that only 10% of deaths are being reported. This is completely ridiculous.
When they say that 10% of symptoms aren't reported they are refering to symptoms like itchy injection sites, sore arms and slight fevers. They are not refering to deaths.
Those other symptoms are something people would just ignore and not bother a doctor with.
They would not ignore a death. It's silly to suggest that.

So unless you can find a source that specifically and clearly states that deaths are underreported by 90% your point doesn't hold.

Additionally the source for this number specific states that the number they are giving is an over reporting. So in reality the actual number of deaths due to the vaccines are far less. Saying that it is 0.0098% is being extremely generous to your silly conspiracy claims.

So even assuming that the deaths are ten times an over reported number and that it's 0.098% (and again for clarity it's not) why is this death rate a cause for concern while the 1% death for covid is not a concern?

Wouldn't lowering the number of deaths a hundred fold (or in reality over a ten thousand fold) be a good thing?
This is the point of my post that you have avoided.

Deleted User wrote: »

Conspiracy analysts are usually happy to discuss numbers. No different here.

Not in my experience.
And you yourself spent a good two or three pages of posts refusing to discuss or provide the numbers until someone else did it for you. You then had a dramatic exit from the forum.

Dohnjoe · 04-03-2021 11:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

0.09% of 40k is 600?

You'd want to fix your calculator, Dohn.

Oops my bad, it's 36. We didn't see that number in the trials.

Dohnjoe · 04-03-2021 11:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thank you Dr Frost. It's interesting to get a medical perspective on things.

Believing stuff on the internet without question, root cause of the problem right there

PintOfView · 05-03-2021 1:33am

Deleted User wrote: »

After a brief hiatus, I can now address this point.

We have no idea, obviously, what percentage of deaths and hospitalisations are actually reported to this database. If it's 10%, you can multiply the 656 deaths by 10. If it's only 1%, multiply it by 100. Etc etc.

All of us are only guessing, really, so we'll have to leave it at that. I hope that's the extent of deaths, of course, but can't be proven either way.

Aren't you dismissing that a bit too fast?

We're not just guessing, this is the CDC web site that someone directed us to in order to show how many people were dying of the vaccine.

However when the numbers were put in context, showing that 656 deaths were reported from 66 million who got the vaccine,
and the CDC site even said that those deaths weren't confirmed to be from the vaccine,
now you try to cast doubt on the numbers!

If you are being honest you can't have it both ways!

In the peak week in December 20,000 people more than normal died in the US. Their yearly deaths are:
2017: 2.75m dead in US (from all causes)
2018: 2.83m
2019: 2.85m
2020: 3.33m

Why did 400,000 people more than normal die last year in the US?
Answer = Covid (is it not?)

How can you then, with any degree of objectivity, start comparing 656 dead, to 400,000 dead,
and somehow try to say that the vaccine might be killing more than covid.
Can you explain your reasoning?

thecretinhop · 10-03-2021 11:50am

brilliant guy on joe rogan there. 90pc sure lab based leak. yeah yeah fake etc.

The Nal · 10-03-2021 2:02pm

thecretinhop wrote: »

brilliant guy on joe rogan there. 90pc sure lab based leak. yeah yeah fake etc.

Jamie Metzl. Very smart guy.

Where does he say hes 90% sure?

26-03-2021 8:12pm

PintOfView wrote: »

How can you then, with any degree of objectivity, start comparing 656 dead, to 400,000 dead,
and somehow try to say that the vaccine might be killing more than covid.
Can you explain your reasoning?

We don't know the exact figures of either, but I never suggested the vaccine was killing more people than Covid.

CSO: The median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.

In other words, Covid is predominantly killing only elderly people with underlying conditions, who, statistically speaking, were close to passing anyway.

The question in the bigger picture is if all of these restrictions, economic consequences, social/mental health fallout etc will of been worth it.

Stay safe, folks.

Dohnjoe · 26-03-2021 8:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't know the exact figures of either, but I never suggested the vaccine was killing more people than Covid.

CSO: The median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.

In other words, Covid is predominantly killing only elderly people with underlying conditions, who, statistically speaking, were close to passing anyway.

The question in the bigger picture is if all of these restrictions, economic consequences, social/mental health fallout etc will of been worth it.

Stay safe, folks.

You believe Covid is a ruse by the NWO to take over the world, or have you dropped that now in favor of watered down Covid denial..

26-03-2021 10:46pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You believe Covid is a ruse by the NWO to take over the world, or have you dropped that now in favor of watered down Covid denial..

Banter aside, you should definitely get the vax, Dohn, being in the vulnerable category. Wouldn't want to lose your ever-present wisdom 'round these parts :pac: 💜

King Mob · 27-03-2021 1:40am

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't know the exact figures of either, but I never suggested the vaccine was killing more people than Covid.

Ok. So now we've established all of the conspiracy theorist scaremongering about the vaccine is false, what's the objection to the vaccine?

Deleted User wrote: »

CSO: The median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.

In other words, Covid is predominantly killing only elderly people with underlying conditions, who, statistically speaking, were close to passing anyway.

The question in the bigger picture is if all of these restrictions, economic consequences, social/mental health fallout etc will of been worth it.

Stay safe, folks.

You're saying that it hasn't been worth it and we should just let old and sick people die.
Ok.

PintOfView · 27-03-2021 2:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

We don't know the exact figures of either, but I never suggested the vaccine was killing more people than Covid.

CSO: The median age of Covid deaths is 83, the same as that for all deaths. 88% of those had underlying conditions.

In other words, Covid is predominantly killing only elderly people with underlying conditions, who, statistically speaking, were close to passing anyway.

The question in the bigger picture is if all of these restrictions, economic consequences, social/mental health fallout etc will of been worth it.

Stay safe, folks.

So are you saying that we should have done the following:
- Made a strategic decision to keep everything running as normal
- Accept that the virus would run through the population unimpeded
- Accept a large death toll, skewed towards the elderly, and towards the vulnerable of all ages
- Accept that hospitals would be overrun until herd immunity arrived (one year? several years?)
- Accept that hospitals would not have the capacity to treat all the other medical conditions that would still require it
- Accept the trauma that all that would impose on the bereaved families, and health care workers, and people in general

How would that be better than what we've had for the last year?

If the vaccines work, and things get back to close to normality by the end of summer, do you not think we will have done the right thing?

LessOutragePlz · 28-03-2021 2:03am

A former CDC director has claimed that the virus could have escaped from a lab in Wuhan.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/26/ex-cdc-head-robert-redfield-believes-coronavirus-escaped-chinese-lab-scientists-dubious/7013982002/

Timberrrrrrrr · 28-03-2021 2:05am

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

A former CDC director has claimed that the virus could have escaped from a lab in Wuhan.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/26/ex-cdc-head-robert-redfield-believes-coronavirus-escaped-chinese-lab-scientists-dubious/7013982002/

Well that's me convinced :rolleyes:

King Mob · 28-03-2021 4:27am

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

A former CDC director has claimed that the virus could have escaped from a lab in Wuhan.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/03/26/ex-cdc-head-robert-redfield-believes-coronavirus-escaped-chinese-lab-scientists-dubious/7013982002/

What evidence does he present?

Is it just based on his authority?

How come he isn't part of the conspiracy that all other doctors are part of?
Is USA Today also not part of the media conspiracy?

Covid-19 likely to be man made

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