UFC 249 - Ferguson v Gaethje Sat May 9th

Beersmith · 11-05-2020 1:53pm

simongurnick wrote: »

I hate to piss on Tony's win streak right after the loss but as I look at his record on paper, there are a lot of journeymen there...cowboy, pettis, Barbosa etc.
Also a 6 month camp surely didn't help.

The title contender cerrone and former champ pettis. Jesus some peoples. Definition of journeymen is bizarre!

mdwexford · 11-05-2020 1:57pm

So many silly posts. Justin Gaethje an ordinary fighter. Hope there was alcohol involved there.

Was great to have fights back but tests should have been done before the fighters left for Florida. How Jacare was going round the venue and face offs while positive is crazy.

Haven’t been more impressed with a title fight win since Cody destroyed Cruz. Gaethje put in an almost flawless performance. Since the two defeats he has been much more composed and is a totally different proposition. Would not fancy Alvarez or Poirier chances against him now.

He poses a lot of problems for Khabib and I would love to see that fight next. Is his much heralded but never seen wrestling enough to stop Khabib from taking him down and keeping him there, who knows. If it is he will take Khabib apart on the feet.

Him vs Conor is also a savage match up. He is hittable but Conor would need to be at the top of his game and use his distance management and accuracy well. Justin will chew up that lead leg fast and has a lot of power in his shots. Could be a classic.

Henry had a good gameplan chopping the leg to slow down the movement in the first. Cruz was doing a bit better in the second round until the finish which I didn’t like. I disagree with the 11 unanswered shots argument. He was trying to get to his feet. You can either block shots or try and stand up. Nearly impossible to do both. It’s a title fight with two experienced fighters. I think it should have been let continue. Left a sour unfinished taste in my mouth and was very similar to the TJ fight which I also felt was early.

Francis power is unbelievable. Still don’t know if he has learned much since the Stipe fight though. Can he do anything to get back to his feet if he is taken down. If he connects with even 50% power it’s lights out for everyone though.

Kattar looked slick and is dangerous for anyone in the division.

Bryce Mitchell was the other fighter to make a big impression. Still only 25 he looks to be going places fast.

mdwexford · 11-05-2020 2:00pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Just on Tony, I was saying in advance of the fight somebody what he said afterwards. He was very Frank and the main points were how long his camp was, since November, and that he was preparing for a non-striker for most of that time.
The camp was far too long and he should never have took that fight at short notice given how much he had to lose against a guy getting a free shot to nothing. Basically a loss didn't hurt Gaethje's ranking, Tony had a long win streak and a title shot on the line.

I believe that if Tony had a regular camp preparing for Gaethje that he beats him and easily enough.

I believe you have no idea what you are talking about.

PyreOfHellfire · 11-05-2020 2:19pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Charisma is not ability to insult others, and behave like you have the biggest dick in the world, its not how much you sell or how successful you are, Iron mike was successful and had the charisma of a turnip. Its about being outgoing sure, but in a positive way towards people not a negative way. Charisma involves humility and manners, neither of which McGregor portrays in any sizable quantity. Ali had charisma, GSP lots of it, Anderson Silva plenty.

Jesus christ lad are you honestly trying to make out like your interpretation of a word is the actual definition of it? Conor has charisma. Whether you like it or not. Even idiots have charisma. Ironically,Muhammad Ali had a hell of a lot worse to say than Mcgregor ever had but something tells me you don't care about that. He used to complain about segregation but believed that mixed race marriage shouldn't be allowed. Does that abhorrant view he held affect his charisma? No. But it undermines your point about only nice people are charismatic. Nonsense.

derfderf · 11-05-2020 2:20pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Just on Tony, I was saying in advance of the fight somebody what he said afterwards. He was very Frank and the main points were how long his camp was, since November, and that he was preparing for a non-striker for most of that time.
The camp was far too long and he should never have took that fight at short notice given how much he had to lose against a guy getting a free shot to nothing. Basically a loss didn't hurt Gaethje's ranking, Tony had a long win streak and a title shot on the line.

I believe that if Tony had a regular camp preparing for Gaethje that he beats him and easily enough.

He may have been burned out from the long camp, but the training for a non-striker is bull. He's was training for Gaethje for as long as Gaethje was training for him.

JoeyJJ · 11-05-2020 2:28pm

Some people listening too many lazy excuses Justin was a bad match up for Tony on short notice or not. However Tony may have been a worse matchup for Khabib than Justin is however I would have more confidence the fight might actually happen if it is booked with Justin than Tony.

Love to see a quick enough turnaround there July / August, Justin didn't take too much damage unless fingers and fists are sore, certainly looked to be bothering him post fight.

Next few weeks after these cards will tell alot if they can continue with covid.

JoeyJJ · 11-05-2020 2:32pm

Very enjoyable fight, Justin has a strong corner and he listened and implemented what they wanted. 2nd round he got a bit cocky with that uppercut attempt where Tony clipped him, he was told to take some power off and he did and he used his energy better after that. Later if the fight he was told to focus and he came out more focused and eye on the prize and not rushing in for the finish which was there from R4.

lawrencesummers · 11-05-2020 2:48pm

PyreOfHellfire wrote: »

Jesus christ lad are you honestly trying to make out like your interpretation of a word is the actual definition of it? Conor has charisma. Whether you like it or not. Even idiots have charisma. Ironically,Muhammad Ali had a hell of a lot worse to say than Mcgregor ever had but something tells me you don't care about that. He used to complain about segregation but believed that mixed race marriage shouldn't be allowed. Does that abhorrant view he held affect his charisma? No. But it undermines your point about only nice people are charismatic. Nonsense.

So your objecting to someone having an opinion of something then having your own.

Good one, but your post turned to cow**** when you decided to a pledge that Ali spoke worse than McGregor.

If you find Conor charismatic then that’s your outlook on life, if you want to admire his personality that’s your call. I see a difference between charisma and ignorance, between manners and rudeness, between humility and hubris.

Let’s agree to disagree.

sonofenoch · 11-05-2020 3:02pm

PyreOfHellfire wrote: »

Look, I hate Conor just as much as the next person, I've been banned on this forum for using certain harsh words to describe him. But to dispute the man having charisma is beyond silly and just flat out wrong. He clearly does have charisma. The defintion of charisma is "compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others". It's an apt description of Conor whether we like him or not. Just because we don't like the man doesn't mean we get to change the meaning of words that describe him. I still hope he gets the head hammered off him though

Is that the Royal we or just this forum we

cletus · 11-05-2020 3:04pm

"A black man should be killed if he’s messing with a white woman"
"We’ll kill anybody who tries to mess around with our women"

On being asked about a black woman being with a white man
“Then she dies. Kill her too.”

All direct quotes from Ali.

This on top of refering to Joe Fraiser as "Uncle Tom” and a “gorilla” as well as “ignorant, stupid, ugly, and smelly.”

Mellor · 11-05-2020 3:12pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Good one, but your post turned to cow**** when you decided to a pledge that Ali spoke worse than McGregor.

Ali said and did some horrible things that history like to gloss over.

I see a difference between charisma and ignorance, between manners and rudeness, between humility and hubris.

There is a difference between all of those things. But they aren’t mutually exclusive. Separate traits.

Ted Bundy was also by all accounts very charismatic. Of course he was also a rapist, serial killer and necrophiliac.

lawrencesummers · 11-05-2020 3:14pm

Mellor wrote: »

Ali said and did some horrible things that history like to gloss over.

There is a difference between all of those things. But they aren’t mutually exclusive. Separate traits.

Ted Bundy was also by all accounts very charismatic. Of course he was also a rapist, serial killer and necrophiliac.

I can’t comment on Ted, never met the guy.

walshb · 11-05-2020 3:18pm

cletus wrote: »

"A black man should be killed if he’s messing with a white woman"
"We’ll kill anybody who tries to mess around with our women"

On being asked about a black woman being with a white man
“Then she dies. Kill her too.”

All direct quotes from Ali.

This on top of refering to Joe Fraiser as "Uncle Tom” and a “gorilla” as well as “ignorant, stupid, ugly, and smelly.”

Yes, we know....Ali lived in a time far different than today. He had his faults...he was brainwashed, for starters!

He also had bags of charisma.....effortless.

Jonathon Eig wrote a great book on his life.....the good, bad and ugly....

But overall, he was undeniably a great human being......

lawrencesummers · 11-05-2020 3:19pm

cletus wrote: »

"A black man should be killed if he’s messing with a white woman"
"We’ll kill anybody who tries to mess around with our women"

On being asked about a black woman being with a white man
“Then she dies. Kill her too.”

All direct quotes from Ali.

This on top of refering to Joe Fraiser as "Uncle Tom” and a “gorilla” as well as “ignorant, stupid, ugly, and smelly.”

If you want to take the small few quotes, without context or background and attribute them as being the measure of a persons character then you are doing their character a disservice, I never said Ali was perfect, he was a great sports person, he made some right and some wrong decisions in his life, but he had charisma, plenty of it.

I had the pleasure of meeting him when he came to Ireland last, and he was a class act.

eagle eye · 11-05-2020 3:20pm

mdwexford wrote:

I believe you have no idea what you are talking about.

Short answer with nothing but an attempt to insult. I don't think I've ever read a post with any depth to it from you.

derfderf wrote:

He may have been burned out from the long camp, but the training for a non-striker is bull. He's was training for Gaethje for as long as Gaethje was training for him.

A long camp is a killer, his camp went on far too long. He needed time off and then another camp for Gaethje.

His energy, speed and power were below his normal level. He was training for a match where he'd spend a lot of time defending the takedown not taking power shots.
.
I think he needs to fire his manager and move to a new team.

mdwexford · 11-05-2020 3:36pm

eagle eye wrote: »

Short answer with nothing but an attempt to insult. I don't think I've ever read a post with any depth to it from you.

A long camp is a killer, his camp went on far too long. He needed time off and then another camp for Gaethje.

His energy, speed and power were below his normal level. He was training for a match where he'd spend a lot of time defending the takedown not taking power shots.
.
I think he needs to fire his manager and move to a new team.

You have posted multiple disparaging posts about Gaethje since he won. All unfounded and ridiculous. Clearly you prefer Tony but it’s time to hold up your hands and admit he got destroyed. We saw nothing on Sunday to suggest a different result was possible. Yeah you claim Justin is ordinary and Tony would win a rematch easily.

Almost everything you post verges on trolling to me because I can’t believe some of the tripe I’m reading.

eagle eye · 11-05-2020 4:09pm

mdwexford wrote:

You have posted multiple disparaging posts about Gaethje since he won. All unfounded and ridiculous. Clearly you prefer Tony but itâ€™s time to hold up your hands and admit he got destroyed. We saw nothing on Sunday to suggest a different result was possible. Yeah you claim Justin is ordinary and Tony would win a rematch easily.

So you don't bother to take up anything I've said and challenge it only post that I'm wrong. And that's your opinion although you say it like it's a fact.

mdwexford wrote:

Almost everything you post verges on trolling to me because I canâ€™t believe some of the tripe Iâ€™m reading.

This is just pathetic schoolboy attempts to insult.

cletus · 11-05-2020 4:17pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If you want to take the small few quotes, without context or background and attribute them as being the measure of a persons character then you are doing their character a disservice, I never said Ali was perfect, he was a great sports person, he made some right and some wrong decisions in his life, but he had charisma, plenty of it.

I had the pleasure of meeting him when he came to Ireland last, and he was a class act.

And people have met McGregor, and said he was also a class act.

The above comments are not "out of context" as I wasn't contextualising them. I'm not disagreeing that Ali was charismatic, I'm simply pointing out that horrible nasty comments can be made by charismatic people.

As regards you not knowing whether Ted Bundy was charismatic or not as you had not met him, surely your personal interactions with people are not how we establish charisma?

MrStuffins · 11-05-2020 4:19pm

eagle eye wrote: »

So you don't bother to take up anything I've said and challenge it only post that I'm wrong.

To be fair, things like "If Tony had a full camp...." are completely hyperbolic.

There's not much challenging you can do to that kind of thinking.

Talking about his camp being too long and opponent changes etc...... it's all excuses.

Would the fight go a different way on a different night? Who knows! He got beat by the better man on the night. That is the only fact here.

cletus · 11-05-2020 4:20pm

walshb wrote: »

Yes, we know....Ali lived in a time far different than today. He had his faults...he was brainwashed, for starters!

He also had bags of charisma.....effortless.

Jonathon Eig wrote a great book on his life.....the good, bad and ugly....

But overall, he was undeniably a great human being......

Unless, of course, you were one of the women he treated abismally. His having charisma does not automatically mean he was a great, or even nice person.

walshb · 11-05-2020 4:51pm

cletus wrote: »

Unless, of course, you were one of the women he treated abismally. His having charisma does not automatically mean he was a great, or even nice person.

Like I said, he had his flaws....we all do

As regards his charisma.....well, he is and was the most iconic and beloved sports athlete of all times..

Hey, and those women, like a lot, aren't completely innocent......there is responsibility for oneself...back then, and today!!!!!!!!

lawrencesummers · 11-05-2020 5:47pm

cletus wrote: »

And people have met McGregor, and said he was also a class act.

The above comments are not "out of context" as I wasn't contextualising them. I'm not disagreeing that Ali was charismatic, I'm simply pointing out that horrible nasty comments can be made by charismatic people.

As regards you not knowing whether Ted Bundy was charismatic or not as you had not met him, surely your personal interactions with people are not how we establish charisma?

And people have met McGregor and said he isn’t a class act.

This is getting pretty childish. If you want to think someone Like McGregor is charismatic then go you, that’s your call.

My personal interactions with people are most definitely not how you should establish charisma, but it is a major deciding factor for me deciding it.

Axwell · 11-05-2020 5:59pm

Lads this is the UFC 249 event thread..not the place for discussing McGregors charisma..back on topic

SlowBlowin · 11-05-2020 6:05pm

I thought the funniest part of the night was when DC and Rogan realised that the fighters could hear what they were saying !!

PyreOfHellfire · 11-05-2020 6:23pm

Sorry Ax for dragging off topic just thought someone needed a dictionary.

eagle eye · 11-05-2020 6:37pm

MrStuffins wrote:

He got beat by the better man on the night.

And I never disputed that.

MrStuffins · 11-05-2020 6:56pm

eagle eye wrote: »

And I never disputed that.

Of course not. Only a blind, deaf and lobotomised man would. Justin put a prolonged and sustained beating on Ferguson.

But rather than give any credit to the winner of run the fight you've made a litany of excuses on behalf of Tony including:

- Camp was too long
- He was training for a grappler (Poor Tony had obviously never seen kickboxing before Sat night and were completely blindsided by this new-fangled striking stuff)
- Took the fight on short notice (One fighter was actually training for a fight up to this point and it wasn't Justin)
- He needs to fire his manager
- He needs to move camps

It's like something pulled directly from the Conor McGregor thread. It's almost a full house on the bingo card of fighter excuses.

And all complete hyperbole, without giving any sort of credit to the man who won the fight.

eagle eye · 11-05-2020 7:20pm

MrStuffins wrote:

And all complete hyperbole, without giving any sort of credit to the man who won the fight.

And you've just decided that Tony is that? You are willing to completely dismiss all he has accomplished to that point in his career. He went in a hot favourite the other night, wonder why?
It's not often people get it that badly wrong.
We seen a shadow of the normal Tony and it wasn't because Gaethje changed his game that much. Gaethje got very good advice from his corner for sure but he didn't start out patient and relaxed and still Tony wasn't able for him.
This had a lot more to do with Tony not being ready for the fight than it had to do with Gaethje upping his game.
Before this fight Gaethje didn't have a big name win on his record. I'm telling you right here and now that there won't be another, unless a similar situation as regards a long camp arises, so you can quote me if it happens.
You'll see that I was saying before the fight that this shouldn't be for the right to face Khabib because Tony had already earned that right.
Tony said himself after the fight about the long camp and how most of it was preparing for a non-striker. I presume you are calling his words crap like you are calling mine? Tell me the last time you remember be Tony talking crap about his prep.

Zero-Cool · 11-05-2020 7:22pm

SAVAGE!!

https://twitter.com/KPetersonMMA/status/1259696440709963776?s=19

ASOT · 11-05-2020 7:26pm

Zero-Cool wrote: »

SAVAGE!!

https://twitter.com/KPetersonMMA/status/1259696440709963776?s=19

That's class. Was very surprised that Dom said that, he should have a bit more cop on. Especially as he's an analyst now.

MrStuffins · 11-05-2020 7:32pm

eagle eye wrote: »

And you've just decided that Tony is that? You are willing to completely dismiss all he has accomplished to that point in his career. He went in a hot favourite the other night, wonder why?
It's not often people get it that badly wrong.
We seen a shadow of the normal Tony and it wasn't because Gaethje changed his game that much. Gaethje got very good advice from his corner for sure but he didn't start out patient and relaxed and still Tony wasn't able for him.
This had a lot more to do with Tony not being ready for the fight than it had to do with Gaethje upping his game.
Before this fight Gaethje didn't have a big name win on his record. I'm telling you right here and now that there won't be another, unless a similar situation as regards a long camp arises, so you can quote me if it happens.
You'll see that I was saying before the fight that this shouldn't be for the right to face Khabib because Tony had already earned that right.
Tony said himself after the fight about the long camp and how most of it was preparing for a non-striker. I presume you are calling his words crap like you are calling mine? Tell me the last time you remember be Tony talking crap about his prep.

More hyperbole and excuses.

eagle eye · 11-05-2020 7:35pm

MrStuffins wrote:

More hyperbole and excuses.

There's no hyperbole in my post. Maybe you need to go learn what hyperbole actually means

lawrencesummers · 11-05-2020 7:37pm

PyreOfHellfire wrote: »

Sorry Ax for dragging off topic just thought someone needed a dictionary.

Thesaurus maybe?

MrStuffins · 11-05-2020 7:43pm

eagle eye wrote: »

There's no hyperbole in my post. Maybe you need to go learn what hyperbole actually means

You'd be the man to ask if I needed a lesson

mdwexford · 11-05-2020 10:02pm

eagle eye wrote: »

And you've just decided that Tony is that? You are willing to completely dismiss all he has accomplished to that point in his career. He went in a hot favourite the other night, wonder why?
It's not often people get it that badly wrong.
We seen a shadow of the normal Tony and it wasn't because Gaethje changed his game that much. Gaethje got very good advice from his corner for sure but he didn't start out patient and relaxed and still Tony wasn't able for him.
This had a lot more to do with Tony not being ready for the fight than it had to do with Gaethje upping his game.
Before this fight Gaethje didn't have a big name win on his record. I'm telling you right here and now that there won't be another, unless a similar situation as regards a long camp arises, so you can quote me if it happens.
You'll see that I was saying before the fight that this shouldn't be for the right to face Khabib because Tony had already earned that right.
Tony said himself after the fight about the long camp and how most of it was preparing for a non-striker. I presume you are calling his words crap like you are calling mine? Tell me the last time you remember be Tony talking crap about his prep.

Who is dismissing anything. He is a former champion and a top notch fighter.

He went in a 1/2 fav, far from super short. Those sort of prices lose on every fight card, by no means a major upset.

Tony wasn’t at his best. Nobody knows why. Cutting weight previously was stupid in my opinion. Regardless I believe Justin is a better fighter.

Why do you come out with statements like he will never beat another big name fighter. It’s things like this that make you come across ridiculously. He’s a top class fighter who can beat anyone in the world on a given night. Same as most of the rest of the top guys/girls in most divisions.

You can’t lose a fight and still be ahead of the guy who beat you in the pecking order. Not how this works and never has been.

All of them train and prepare for everything. This he wasn’t ready for a striker thing is silly. If his camp went wrong he only has himself and his team to blame.

bmcc10 · 12-05-2020 7:08am

eagle eye wrote: »

Tony said himself after the fight about the long camp and how most of it was preparing for a non-striker. I presume you are calling his words crap like you are calling mine? Tell me the last time you remember be Tony talking crap about his prep.

This is the same Tony Ferguson who said just over a month ago that he hasn't sparred since the Thibau fight but him preparing for a non-striker this time is the excuse? Give over.

Mellor · 12-05-2020 7:19am

eagle eye wrote: »

And you've just decided that Tony is that? You are willing to completely dismiss all he has accomplished to that point in his career. He went in a hot favourite the other night, wonder why?
It's not often people get it that badly wrong.

Aspects of Tony's game were vastly overstated by mma-fans and media. Prticular his jiu jitsu. That's not a recent opinion.
He was a rightful favorite, as Justin had his own flaws to this point. But favorites lose all the time. "It's not often" makes no sense to me.

We seen a shadow of the normal Tony and it wasn't because Gaethje changed his game that much. Gaethje got very good advice from his corner for sure but he didn't start out patient and relaxed and still Tony wasn't able for him.

Not starting out patient and relaxed make it harder for Tony, not easier.
The reason he was told to ease off was so he made it to the 5th.

This had a lot more to do with Tony not being ready for the fight than it had to do with Gaethje upping his game.

The improvement in Justin's game was very very obvious. And a huge factor.

Tony never got going. He look bad, but he hasn't exactly been flawless in the past.

Round 1 vrs Lando he looked terrible.
Round 1 vrs Kevin Lee he looked bad.
Pretty sure he was down a round to Pettis also.

In those 3 fights he found a stoppage. But he looked to be losing each at one point. He was down 2-1 to RDA.
For somebody with a record streak, Tony spent a lot of time behind in fights. This time he just didn't get out from behind.

You'll see that I was saying before the fight that this shouldn't be for the right to face Khabib because Tony had already earned that right.

And you'll see that I said it's Tony's decision to put that right on the line or not. He risked it and lost.

akelly02 · 12-05-2020 8:54am

Zero-Cool wrote: »

SAVAGE!!

https://twitter.com/KPetersonMMA/status/1259696440709963776?s=19

that whole page is absoulutely class !!!!!!!

Beersmith · 15-05-2020 5:32pm

Anyone else absolutely hate the tweets appearing mid fight! ****ing so annoying!

MrStuffins · 15-05-2020 5:49pm

Beersmith wrote: »

Anyone else absolutely hate the tweets appearing mid fight! ****ing so annoying!

I actually quite like it

JimmyAlfonso · 15-05-2020 9:09pm

MrStuffins wrote: »

I actually quite like it

I'm with the original poster. Distracting. Might be better placed in between rounds. Also thinking that when we look back at old footage these tweets covering up the action will seem very lame.

Porthallian · 15-05-2020 9:54pm

I'm in between. It's a good idea, but should be filtered a little more. I understand they are trying to show tweets from a lot of different fighters, fans etc. But some of them are so mundane, like "Finally some UFC action."

EagererBeaver · 15-05-2020 10:17pm

JimmyAlfonso wrote: »

I'm with the original poster. Distracting. Might be better placed in between rounds. Also thinking that when we look back at old footage these tweets covering up the action will seem very lame.

They'll not be hard coded as part of the footage.

Fromvert · 16-05-2020 1:06am

The tweets should be kept for in between the rounds. Hated them coming up during the fight.

Was a fantastic performance by Justin, hopefully he gets the Khabib fight whenever he is ready and McGregor doesn't jump to the front of the line.

I was completely wrong thinking this card would do bad PPV wise, 700k the estimated buy rate in the US.

Still Ill · 16-05-2020 2:06am

They should at least screen the tweets they put up during the fight. Nobody wants to hear what Stephen A Smith thinks about a fight. Especially when he's calling Justin Gaethje 'Garth'. Predictive text error or not, it's pretty brutal.

Mellor · 20-05-2020 2:34am

mdwexford wrote: »

Tony wasn’t at his best. Nobody knows why. Cutting weight previously was stupid in my opinion. Regardless I believe Justin is a better fighter.

For what it's worth, Tony has said cutting twice wasn't a factor - via Eddie.

Eddie Bravo also said that he wasn't supposed to be in the Octagon, the the striking coach was the lead. But striking coach told him to go in there and he wasn't prepared for it and didn't know what to tell him.

mdwexford · 21-05-2020 2:50pm

Mellor wrote: »

For what it's worth, Tony has said cutting twice wasn't a factor - via Eddie.

Eddie Bravo also said that he wasn't supposed to be in the Octagon, the the striking coach was the lead. But striking coach told him to go in there and he wasn't prepared for it and didn't know what to tell him.

Yeah I’ve heard that but it takes a toll on the body. I find it hard to believe it didn’t have an impact and hinder his performance. But that’s speculation, maybe it made no difference to him.

When he’s ready a fight vs Poirier would make a lot of sense and would be guaranteed fireworks.

Mellor · 21-05-2020 3:45pm

There's no way to know. But it certainly didn't help him.
Tony might not have even said it. Eddie was high at the time

UFC 249 - Ferguson v Gaethje Sat May 9th

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