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18-12-2018, 13:26   #46
Twenty Grand
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i'm enjoying the irony of people contributing to a thread about traffic congestion where they say they won't consider the alternatives which are the cure for congestion.

you want to enjoy the benefits of bringing your three piece suite to work? enjoy sitting in traffic so.
The argument has been done to death many times.
There are definite pros and cons to both approaches and they vary depending on the individual and circumstances.

If you want to get people out of cars you need to offer an alternative that's at least as convenient.
Cycling just isn't that solution, for most people who are commuting into the city centre.
Public transport is that solution, but it's nowhere near as widespread or reliable as it needs to be.
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18-12-2018, 13:27   #47
P_1
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What's the 'messing' of leaving clothes in work? It's just leaving clothes in work.
I know right? Just throw some into a bag on Monday, throw them into it again on Friday. Honestly making a sandwich (if that even counts as messing) would be more hassle.

That being said a venn diagram of people who insist on driving through town and people who live off the Spar deli counter likely resembles a circle
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18-12-2018, 14:03   #48
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Unfortunately public transport simply isn't an option for so many people, especially around Dublin with it's huge amount of 24/7 shift work.
The idiots still think everyone works 9 to 5 mon to fri. Why use public transport if i still need my car for all of the shifts where there is no public transport available ?
Given that there is almost no roadspace allocated to buses between the hours of 19:00 and 07:00 I find it difficult to see your point.
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18-12-2018, 14:08   #49
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Do you cycle to work ? Ive only ever heard this from cyclists. In anything bar 20 degrees with a cool breeze on your back, the car is a much more stress free place to be.
Err no it definitely isn't. I cycle 5km to work and back again everyday of the year across Dublin City centre despite no cycling infrastructure. Still way quicker and hassle free compared to driving. 20 degrees is very hot weather for cycling, any more than 10 and I'm usually bucketing sweat. The heatwave this year I took the luas a couple of days and/or went in super early when it was cooler.
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18-12-2018, 14:18   #50
cgcsb
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If you want to get people out of cars you need to offer an alternative that's at least as convenient.
well that's not strictly true, the utility of alternative modes just has to be higher than that of the car. That means a combination of improving public transport and also making driving more difficult and/or expensive.

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Cycling just isn't that solution, for most people who are commuting into the city centre.
Also untrue, the vast majority of commutes in Dublin are below 10km in distance, perfect cycling distance. A big barrier to more people choosing cycling is poor infrastructure. This was identified in Copenhagen years ago and the city now has 40% of commutes being done by bike

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Public transport is that solution, but it's nowhere near as widespread or reliable as it needs to be.
Yes public transport needs to be more reliable, best way to do this is take roadspace from cars and allocate it to busses and cycling.
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18-12-2018, 14:26   #51
Eric Cartman
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Don't see an issue with that. A shower in work means it's not coming out of your heating or leccie bill. Also means you're not wasting a fortune on petrol or funding the insurance cartel.

Cycling to work can be a great 2 fingered salute to capitalism at times
"Save a quid or 2 having a shower in work" , "2 fingered salute to capitalism"

This is the exact kind of lefty hippy craic thats the stereotype of cycling , Ill keep my filthy capitalist traffic sitting ways and paying for my own showers so
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18-12-2018, 14:34   #52
magicbastarder
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The argument has been done to death many times.
There are definite pros and cons to both approaches and they vary depending on the individual and circumstances.

If you want to get people out of cars you need to offer an alternative that's at least as convenient.
that's not what i was responding to. some people were saying they drive because they prefer the comfort and solitude of a car. this is nothing to do with convenience, but a lot to do with why cars are so damn inefficient at moving people around.
my response was that if you want those benefits of having a stupidly large (for the task in hand) vehicle to take you to work, get used to queueing.
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18-12-2018, 14:37   #53
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"Save a quid or 2 having a shower in work" , "2 fingered salute to capitalism"

This is the exact kind of lefty hippy craic thats the stereotype of cycling , Ill keep my filthy capitalist traffic sitting ways and paying for my own showers so
The shower point was tongue in cheek, however I'm glad not to have to waste a few grand or so every year funding the insurance and oil industries
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18-12-2018, 14:50   #54
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none of these come to any other conclusion though

look at the first link, the guardian one, did you actual read it, rather than just an auld google to make a point

is it not correct? if so cycling is worse
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18-12-2018, 14:55   #55
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What's the 'messing' of leaving clothes in work? It's just leaving clothes in work.
I know right? Just throw some into a bag on Monday, throw them into it again on Friday. Honestly making a sandwich (if that even counts as messing) would be more hassle.

That being said a venn diagram of people who insist on driving through town and people who live off the Spar deli counter likely resembles a circle
Perhaps the problem is not having your butler there to hold out your trousers for you?
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18-12-2018, 15:05   #56
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none of these come to any other conclusion though

look at the first link, the guardian one, did you actual read it, rather than just an auld google to make a point

is it not correct? if so cycling is worse
Holgate said walking or cycling are better when possible, to reduce pollution exposure in cars and to increase physical exercise. He said: “There are multiple benefits to be gained. But parents are confused at the moment because they think there is less pollution in cars than outside, which is not the case.
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18-12-2018, 15:14   #57
cgcsb
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"Save a quid or 2 having a shower in work" , "2 fingered salute to capitalism"

This is the exact kind of lefty hippy craic thats the stereotype of cycling , Ill keep my filthy capitalist traffic sitting ways and paying for my own showers so
Right so, but no point moaning then when congestion charging and widespread car bans making driving very time consuming and expensive for you.

as for our 'lefty hippy craic' if you live 50 odd years in the future and you witness the ecological collapse of the Earth, subsequent famines, wars and general brutality you'll probably regret denigrating people who engage in 'lefty hippy craic', or you won't because you'll be in the last years of your life and you won't care what happens to the remaining humans.
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18-12-2018, 15:18   #58
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Right so, but no point moaning then when congestion charging and widespread car bans making driving very time consuming and expensive for you.

as for our 'lefty hippy craic' if you live 50 odd years in the future and you witness the ecological collapse of the Earth, subsequent famines, wars and general brutality you'll probably regret denigrating people who engage in 'lefty hippy craic', or you won't because you'll be in the last years of your life and you won't care what happens to the remaining humans.
Once you're forcing people like cattle onto buses and banning driving then you're a good step along the way to the place being ****ed anyway. Do you pick up your daily nutrition supplement tablet on the way to the bus or will it be available on board?
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18-12-2018, 15:21   #59
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Once you're forcing people like cattle onto buses and banning driving then you're a good step along the way to the place being ****ed anyway. Do you pick up your daily nutrition supplement tablet on the way to the bus or will it be available on board?
How is that, the place being f***ed anyway?
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18-12-2018, 15:59   #60
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Also to make people use the p+r’s I would place tolls on the cc side of the p+r’s but also encourage tax incentives for parking and pt travel passes if p+r’s were used.
Where will you be placing these P+R facilities that house 100's of cars and are manned by security but don't charge?

Because most people who drive in are doing so due to the lack of local transport into Dublin. Once near Dublin, there is a lack of safe P+R facilities.

Also, the majority of people who cycle using the Dubblin Bicycles don't seem to know the rules of the road.

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as for our 'lefty hippy craic' if you live 50 odd years in the future and you witness the ecological collapse of the Earth, subsequent famines, wars and general brutality you'll probably regret denigrating people who engage in 'lefty hippy craic', or you won't because you'll be in the last years of your life and you won't care what happens to the remaining humans.
Nuclear weapons; great at lowering the general population.

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Cycling to work can be a great 2 fingered salute to capitalism at times
The same capitalism that employs you?

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Or people could use the train services already going from those towns. Infrastructure is already there, only investment needed then is additional trains (which are coming anyway). ‘Busses’ are inherently unreliable once traffic and incomplete bus priority is added to the mix.
Agreed, but the train stations need larger parking facilities, and ones that don't charge too much.

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Agreed but he would be pushed out of using his car (stick) by introducing tolls, congestion charge and higher car tax for people with no integrated public transport ticket, and he would be incentivized (carrot) by getting tax credits towards pt ticket, quicker commute times, healthier lifestyle etc.
So a higher car tax because there is no public transport going to where he works? What a load of bollox!

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They're delighted to be able to become a one-car family instead of two, or a no-car family instead of one. It's never been easier to get a car on those occasions that you actually need it.
Sounds like people inside Dublin Area. Anything outside said area is costly. So rather than paying for parking in Dublin, people would need to pay for parking outside of Dublin, as well as the price to get public transport into Dublin, followed by multiple other transfers to get to their destination.
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