Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Discovery 3x12 - 'There Is A Tide...' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

2»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    Burham had mindmelds with Sarek. She would have learned that from him. Same way Picard would in the 24th century.

    Ok so it's logical. That doesn't make her worthy of being in the club.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,729 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    Ok so it's logical. That doesn't make her worthy of being in the club.

    Oh dear God no.

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,488 ✭✭✭Goodshape


    Tbh it was silly when Picard did it too, although it seems his might have been explicitly not a Vulcan neck-pinch at all:

    "his apparent use of a Vulcan neck pinch is really supposed to be just a carotid-artery block"

    https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/142465/did-picard-use-a-vulcan-neck-pinch-in-starship-mine


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Yeah, I enjoyed that more than any of the other previous.

    Burnham is a pretty sh1t hero tbh. I get that she wanted to be quiet, but the knife was right there and she missed it. Seems like she had no real plan at all and just tackled a guy that she could have left go. Or they could have explored more darkness and have Burnham plunge the knife into the guy's neck instead of just tapping him out.

    As mentioned near the start of the thread, there was an obvious missed opportunity here to explore the Chain better. We spent the entire first season exploring the Klingons and establishing the main players and the prevailing galactic situation. Why didn't we get whole episodes where we see Osyra do her thing without involving Discovery? She was portrayed as a galactic mafia boss, not a major leader in what is effectively another galactic empire.

    And they've taken a shortcut with her lead scientist. One minute he's certain that Osyra is a force for good. Then Stamets says two sentences to him and he's questioning everything he knows. Then despite having meticulously shielded him from her bad side all his life, Osyra says "go if you don't like it" and forgets that she's supposed to be a benevolent dictator who badly needs her lead scientist.

    Clearly that guy is going to betray her and save Booker in the next episode. Again, they needed to world build. He should have been aware of what she was like but chose to overlook it on balance.
    silverharp wrote: »
    what is the physics of venting into space, they made it look like it was just a 747 with a window blown open, im guessing it more like 2 seconds and your body temperature starts trending to 0
    It's surprisingly not as destructive as you'd think. The human vascular system is largely capable of withstanding the pressure differential (1 bar to 0 bar isn't that much) and without any air it takes a long time for your body to cool down by radiating heat. In fact, if you went out into space with nothing but some scuba breathing gear, you'd likely die from overheating. EVA spacesuits have a complex cooling system built into them to prevent astronauts overheating when they leave a craft. Which sounds insane when the temp outside is -270 degrees, but yeah, science bitch!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Acosta


    Decent episode with good pacing. But as always it's let down by terrible writing and the worst lead actor in the history of Star Trek


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    seamus wrote: »
    Burnham is a pretty sh1t hero tbh

    Agreed


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Acosta wrote: »
    as always it's let down by terrible writing and the worst lead actor in the history of Star Trek

    Agreed


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    seamus wrote: »

    As mentioned near the start of the thread, there was an obvious missed opportunity here to explore the Chain better. We spent the entire first season exploring the Klingons and establishing the main players and the prevailing galactic situation. Why didn't we get whole episodes where we see Osyra do her thing without involving Discovery? She was portrayed as a galactic mafia boss, not a major leader in what is effectively another galactic empire.

    Because foolishly they think a surprise reveal is a substitute for good world building. Now they may well go onto explore the Chain next season but I don't have much faith in them doing it competently.

    Copy pasted this from a post i made on Reddit on how I'd have built up the Emerald Chain and laid out the season in general.

    Episode 1:
    - We open with Micheal in the 31 century (whatever century they're in, i forget)Working for an organisation called the Emerald chain under Osyraa
    - secretly she's trying to use its resources to find Discovery.
    - episode will establishing the galactic Status quo generally and the chains perspective on the burn and the federations and its failures specifically.
    - The episode would end with them arriving over a pre warp world the chains plans first contacts with only to find a Federation ship already in Orbit. Red alert.

    Episode 2 :
    - Would see the Discovery crash land on said pre warp planet 24 hours before.
    - they Send out a sos on federation channels and race against time to repair and free the ship before the planets pre warp inhabitants reach them.
    - Episode ends with a Federation ship arriving in orbit.

    Episode 3 :
    - both ships lock weapons on eachother and demand to know what the other is doing there. The chain accuse the Federation of hypocrisy for attempting to contact a pre warp civilization after all their high minded rhetoric.
    - The Federation Captain accuses the Chain of only being their to exploit the world for its resources. Osyraa responds saying they don't exploit they strike deals, our tech for their resources. Besides ,you don't get to dictate how we survive the scarcity you caused.
    - Sensing high technology on the surface , Osyraa transports Michael down to investigate with a security officer, they reach Discovery, the security guard is shocked to discover the crew know Michael, she turns her weapon on him and takes him prisoner .
    - After a lot of hugging Saru tells Michael to go help stamets get the spore drive working . Back up in orbit the two captains play for time rattling their sabres .
    - The federations ships long range sensors are picking up a chain vessel on an intercept course, they inform Discovery its now or never. Saru calls for a Black Alert . Discovery rises, pulling itself free from the jungle undergrowth , at 200 feet it spore jumps . And appears right behind Osyraas ship, "interesting" she mutters at a technology that could see Discovery just appear without warning behind her. Outnumbered she orders her ship to warp away. The Federation captain is holo projected onto the Discoveries Bridge , Welcome home Discovery.

    Episode 4:
    - opens with a montage of the crew being debriefed and Michael being interrogated back at federation HQ.
    - Debrief complete Saru is called into Admiral Vances office.
    - They are being sent to Trill to reestablish contact .
    - A Trill first officer Lt cmdr Adira Tal is assigned as Discoveries First officer to give them someone with first hand knowledge of the 31st century and of Trill.
    - Saru requests Michael, the Admiral agrees and places Michael in Sarus custody . She is not trusted due to her previous affiliation with the Chain.
    They arrive on Trill and are surprised to be taken hostage. They are put in a holding cell and told to wait.
    - Osyraa ship arrives in orbit and she transports down, she is greeted with full diplomatic honors not granted to their Federation Guests.
    - they inform Osyraa they have a gift for the Chain . Saru Michael and Adira are led into the room in cuffs .
    - so Kind but completely unnecessary, release them .
    - Saru demands to know whats going on. What are the Chain doing on a Federation world.
    - Thats just it , Captain you are no longer on a Federation world Trill is now a member of the Chain .
    - Saru looks at the Trill President, while the Federation retreated and licked their wounds after the burn, the Chain were there for us, their supplies staved off famine that would have killed millions, for a modest fee interjects Osyraa, lower now you're a member of course .
    - are we free to go Saru asks , of course Osyraa answers.
    - they leave and the episode ends .

    Episode 5 :
    - TNG style Stand alone episode
    - Michael asks to be assigned to working on the Burn Data to combine what she already knows from the Chains Analysis.

    Episode 6 :
    - Tilly tries to Get Michael to open up about the year she spent as a member of the Chain.
    - we see Flashbacks of Michael arriving in the 31st century, sending the suit back through the wormhole, meeting Osyraa.
    - we see her reluctance to let go of her past life , to give up on the Federation, but then she meets Book , a Chain Courier, and falls in love .
    - Book had almost convinced her to leave the Chain with him when she detected the wormhole similar to the one she came through.

    Episode 7 :
    - more TNG style standalone stuff

    Episode 8 :
    - a resource rich planet announces its ready to hear competing bids for its membership from the federation and the Chain.
    - both sides lay out their strengths and point out their opponents flaws.
    - during a break in negotiations, Tilly spots Osyraa and Michael talking in the corridor.
    - before she can confront her or inform Saru negotiations resume. Things go back and forth before in a surprising turn of events Osyraa informs them they are withdrawing their bid. The question of why and what Osyraa and Michael were talking about is left hanging as the episode ends .

    Episode 9 :
    - Owo and Detmar get trapped somehow and we find out more about them, why they decided to abandon all they knew to follow Michael through the wormhole.
    - Michael continues to work on the burn .
    - episode ends with Micheal Discovering something important about the Burn .

    Episode 10 :
    - Michael and Stamets research leads them to believe the burn started in a particularly vicious Nebula.
    - using the same technique as used in Suka'l they spore jump into a less stormy part of the nebula and transport down onto what appears to be the bridge of the Enterprise D
    - rather then a immature Kelpian they discover an elderly Q in ill fitting spandex arguing with himself , we hear Him mutter Jean Luc once or twice .
    - Q was imprisoned in the nebula over 800 years ago by the other members of the Q Continium because he was still too immature to move onto the next plane of existence.
    - the nebula dampens his powers explaining why he's aged .
    - 200 years ago after 500 years of loneliness Q began to lose his mind the psychic shock waves of which caused the burn.
    - in the ready room they discuss their options, on the one hand pre imprisonment he was an agent of chaos, on the other hand if he has another psychic meltdown it could destabilise what little dilithium is left in the Alpha/beta Quadrants . They decide to break him out of his imprisonment .
    - culber manages to calm Q down and they transport up to the Discovery and make ready to Spore jump believing the mycelium network will allow them to breach the nebula with Q in tow.
    - free from the nebula mental interference, Q becomes more lucid and the consequences of his imprisonment and the burn, are laid out . Really? Q asks I caused all that ? Dont worry I can fix this, he snaps his fingers but nothing happens, with the continium gone so too went his powers, for the first time in his life he can't just snap his finger and undo his mistakes. He is distraught.
    - Culber informs him they are letting him go , there is nothing they could do that would punish him any more then he's doing himself.
    - Q leaves the ship promising to be a better man and earn the right to follow his brothers onto the next plane .

    Episode 11 :
    - Discovery receives a distress signal from Osyraa she claims she wants to defect and is being pursued by a chain ship. Discovery steps in and rescues her and they head back to HQ so Osyraa can be debriefed and talk to Admiral Vance .
    - when they get there Osyraa is slapped in cuffs and thrown in a cell . They don't believe her , yet.
    - The Admiral discusses their options , take what she has to say at face value or interrogate her .
    - they opt for the latter , she is being led off to be interrogated when Michael energes from the shadows and stuns the guards . They sneak into Vances office taking him prisoner and locking the doors .
    - I knew I shouldn't have trusted you (Vance to Michael)
    - episode ends

    Episode 12 :
    - last scene is recapped, in her defence i have someone she loves(book was taken hostage as soon as Michael betrayed Ossyra in ep 1), so I wouldn't judge her too harshly .
    - she explains the reason for the subterfuge, she wasn't defecting she is there to negotiate an armistice and merger between the Chain and Federation.
    - as she explains it , we are a mercantile conglomerate dealing in lifes necessities , our trade network has kept hundreds of worlds economies afloat and preventing them from starving . For a price Vance retorts . Dilithium costs money Admiral, our Chains stability relies on our ability to fulfil our obligations and we are running low on Dilithium. Without more a hundred worlds will fall into chaos and starvation. Which brings me to my point , we are aware you have come into possession of a novel bit of technology that if replicated could open up the Galaxy again, to both of us. We both have something the other wants Admiral , we represent 45% of the planets of your once mighty Federation , wouldn't you like them to return to the fold ? . Share the technology with us and we will forge our future together. Vance tells her they still haven't been able to replicate the tech , let us help Osyraa replies . You've given me food for thought , let me take what you've said to my superiors. I'm trusting you Admiral ,Ossyra nods to Michael and puts her hands over her head, Michael presses a button and unlocks the door and a stream of security guards rush in .
    -all the above would be interspersed with Discovery crew reacting to Michael's betrayal and Federation security trying to break into the office .
    -Episode ends

    Episode 13 :
    -last scene recap Vance tells them its OK and to take them back to the ambassadorial quarters for now.
    - Saru it told to wait outside Vances office while he confers with the federation council on the Chains offer.
    - he emerges looking drawn . He explains the situation to Saru , the council are tentatively agreeing to the proposal, but with a few changes , and I don't think they're going to like them .
    - in the Ambassadorial quarters , Osyraa tells Michael she doesn't blame her for her betrayal from ep 1 , we do anything for the ones we love. What do you know about love Michael retorts , I love the chain My dear the needs of "IT'S" many outweigh the needs of the one or on occasion... hundred.
    - Vance calls them to his office , the Federation council has provisionally agreed to your proposal on one condition , you hand yourself over to be judged in a court of law for your crimes on Miranda 3 .
    -Osyra is shocked and disgusted, part of the proposal was amnesty for all Admiral, what you call a massacre I call a trade dispute. Michael drags her to a corner and reminds her what she said about Loving the chain and the needs of the many .
    - she returns to the table. Its a deal breaker for your people?, it is Vance replies . She looks back over to Burnham, then I agree to your terms .
    - Michael meets Osyraa in the shuttle bay where she is to be taken to a penal colony to await trial.
    - Michael promises to be a character witness .
    - season ends with the first chain ship ever to dock at federation HQ , they are there escorting the Chains greatest scientific minds to help with unlocking the secret to replicating the spore drive .
    - it is a happy optimistic note to end on , only lifted more when Book is the last person down the gangway , Burnham rushes into his arms
    - season ends .

    Sorry for the TL;DR post.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    PhiloCypher - nice plotting but your Copy Paste missed the last line:

    ... Burnham rushes into his arms.
    - Book pulls a knife and slits her throat for her betrayal of The Chain.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,391 ✭✭✭PhiloCypher


    Sleepy wrote: »
    PhiloCypher - nice plotting but your Copy Paste missed the last line:

    ... Burnham rushes into his arms.
    - Book pulls a knife and slits her throat for her betrayal of The Chain.

    *Insert Gowron "This we do not forgive, or forget" meme here*


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,311 ✭✭✭liamtech


    I know other people have done this comparison, but hell, im gonna do it full on here

    COMPARISON: Last weeks Discovery V This Weeks expanse (Spoiler Free just discussion of the optics and general watch-ability of the episodes in question)

    The Expanse S5E6
    • Episode six so mid way through the season, ground work is still being laid, but story is compelling
    • Dense Episode, for anyone that hasnt seen it - a lot happens - probably not the strongest episode but again, so much going on - one could not say this was filler
    • First watch: OMG i want to get to the end here, this is nerve wracking
    • Multiple plot lines all starting to converge
    • Second watch - internally comparing plot elements to previous episodes - paying special attention to dialogue and Nuance of the story
    • Third watch - later tonight i plan on rewatching - had i not already rewatched Season 4 that would be a must at this stage - but may definitely watch the last 3 episodes of the Expanse S5 tonight
    • Multiple theories in mind for what is happening - i am up to book 4, prefer to watch then read - may end up skipping that rule and diving straight into book 5 soon, and then onward

    Discovery: S3 E12
    • Penultimate Episode - Cliffhanger Element - All ground work laid. I should be excited - im not - the season thus far has been ludicrous
    • Several different plot lines currently taking place - only one of any interest was Orion offer of Alliance with the Federation - poorly executed, unbelievable plot twist with the Admirals suggestion Orion Leader be put on trial - farce
    • Micharl Burnham/John McClane running around the ship trying to take it back - barely watched it, i was cleaning in the background - Utterly fed up with Burnham at this stage
    • Dialogue utterly devoid of meaning
    • Totally unnecessary to Re-Watch the season - nothing happened of any consequence to this episode - have not rewatched the episode and do not see any point in doing so
    • PROBABLY a strong discovery outing for this season - not a high enough fence to jump -
    • No re-watch necessary - the Contrived 'Sphere Data' is gonna help michael save the day - The other guys stranded on Dilitium Rich Planet will be fine -
    • Barely acknowledge that tomorrow is the season finale

    This show is terrible - comparing it to something reasonable highlights, in a very real way, just how terrible it is. And yes i know there are books on which the expanse is based - That doesnt mean anything, star trek used to be so good, that novelizations would be a given for certain episodes - The writing is utterly abysmal this season of discovery
    • The overall plot is contrived
    • The background information, what background we have been given is ludicrous
    • There are no actual compelling characters, except perhaps Saru, who is secondary to the writers prime choice in Burnham
    • standalone material has been horrendously poor

    Sic semper tyrannis - thus always to Tyrants



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Acosta wrote: »
    Decent episode with good pacing. But as always it's let down by terrible writing and the worst lead actor in the history of Star Trek
    She is always teary-eyed looking up at someone, or whispering comforting words.

    All characters are pretty crap but she is by far my biggest pet peeve.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭De Bhál


    Absolute dogs dinner of a show, but the bizarre thing is you enter Discovery into twitter and it seems to get mostly positive reviews.
    I was wondering was there a different show called Discovery that I didn't know about.
    People going on about great plotting, acting etc.. I don't know.

    I concluded it appeals to the twitter crowd as that place is crazy to begin with, so, no surprise really.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    De Bhál wrote: »
    Absolute dogs dinner of a show, but the bizarre thing is you enter Discovery into twitter and it seems to get mostly positive reviews.
    I was wondering was there a different show called Discovery that I didn't know about.
    People going on about great plotting, acting etc.. I don't know.

    I concluded it appeals to the twitter crowd as that place is crazy to begin with, so, no surprise really.

    It's Twilight in space, of course some idiots love it.

    You have to give it to the writers though, they nailed writing about space, it's certainly the most vacuous show I've ever watched.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    I remember Red Letter Media exposing the use of bots on twitter to hype star trek online, all using the exact same script.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    De Bhál wrote: »
    Absolute dogs dinner of a show, but the bizarre thing is you enter Discovery into twitter and it seems to get mostly positive reviews.
    I was wondering was there a different show called Discovery that I didn't know about.
    People going on about great plotting, acting etc.. I don't know.

    I concluded it appeals to the twitter crowd as that place is crazy to begin with, so, no surprise really.

    I believe There’s a sky show called discovery of witches.


  • Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Amiya Enough Vandal


    I believe There’s a sky show called discovery of witches.

    It's great I am happily watching it :D


Advertisement