Discovery 3x12 - 'There Is A Tide...' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

I found a lot of the comments here more entertaining than the episode itself.

Totally agree that the visuals are way OTT. The floor that appears only when it's required is just beyond dumb. Even in the future such a setup would be quite unsettling. Isn't anyone scared of heights in the future. Like how could you walk around confidently when you don't see the floor yet, just to materialize at the moment you need it. It's just so stupid. The whole thing is just so stupid. I'll watch the final episode but that's it whether is returns or not.


edit: I admire those who are able to criticise the plot because one must be able to follow it in the first place to do that. I haven't a clue what's going on. Because once I've lost interest it's hard to have enough interest at the same time to follow it.

bilbot79 wrote: »

Hello????

Burnham did a f***ing Vulcan nerve pinch!!!!

Leonard Nimoy must be turning in his grave and saying 'First the whispering...and now this??'

Spock could show emotion from time to time because he was half human. Sonequa Martin Green may not Vulcan Nerve Pinch because she is not Vulcan and does not compare to Spock!!!

Think Data was able to do it.

And Picard could do it after the mindmeld with Sarek.

Archer also did it while carrying the Katra of Surak.

Odo also did it

Goodshape wrote: »

So, to recap:
Michael Burnham: is Michael Burnham.

It's an even more valid explanation for anything than "I'm Batman"

Goodshape wrote: »

So, to recap:


Data: is an Android with super human strength.

Picard: had some sort of super-mindmeld with Sarek.

Archer: had the Katra of Surak inside him.

Odo: is a Founder.

Michael Burnham: is Michael Burnham.

Burham had mindmelds with Sarek. She would have learned that from him. Same way Picard would in the 24th century.

That was a better episode than the last two episode but still had some issues. Still too much Micheal Burnham.
Stemats all of a sudden having PTSD.

Bookers silly ship crash landing on the Discovery lol and his communication conveniently going just as they got to Federation headquarters.

At least the federation admiral is not talking any **** for Osyra even if they are literally eating it.

Booker and Ryn staying in the room to end up getting caught did not make sense.

I was disapointed that the computer on Discovery did not do more or even try to stop Osyras people from talking control of the ship. Very disappointed how easy it was taking over by them too.

It would have been nice to get more info on the chain alright but I guess we know now what they are basically.

Stark wrote: »

Well in space you're insulated somewhat by being in a vacuum so you would only lose heat through radiation.

Your blood kinda boils with the pressure, bit like the bends.

AllForIt wrote: »

Re the Die Hard scene, I didn't see that, I saw Aliens.

bilbot79 wrote: »

Ok so it's logical. That doesn't make her worthy of being in the club.

Oh dear God no.

Yeah, I enjoyed that more than any of the other previous.

Burnham is a pretty sh1t hero tbh. I get that she wanted to be quiet, but the knife was right there and she missed it. Seems like she had no real plan at all and just tackled a guy that she could have left go. Or they could have explored more darkness and have Burnham plunge the knife into the guy's neck instead of just tapping him out.

As mentioned near the start of the thread, there was an obvious missed opportunity here to explore the Chain better. We spent the entire first season exploring the Klingons and establishing the main players and the prevailing galactic situation. Why didn't we get whole episodes where we see Osyra do her thing without involving Discovery? She was portrayed as a galactic mafia boss, not a major leader in what is effectively another galactic empire.

And they've taken a shortcut with her lead scientist. One minute he's certain that Osyra is a force for good. Then Stamets says two sentences to him and he's questioning everything he knows. Then despite having meticulously shielded him from her bad side all his life, Osyra says "go if you don't like it" and forgets that she's supposed to be a benevolent dictator who badly needs her lead scientist.

Clearly that guy is going to betray her and save Booker in the next episode. Again, they needed to world build. He should have been aware of what she was like but chose to overlook it on balance.

silverharp wrote: »

what is the physics of venting into space, they made it look like it was just a 747 with a window blown open, im guessing it more like 2 seconds and your body temperature starts trending to 0

It's surprisingly not as destructive as you'd think. The human vascular system is largely capable of withstanding the pressure differential (1 bar to 0 bar isn't that much) and without any air it takes a long time for your body to cool down by radiating heat. In fact, if you went out into space with nothing but some scuba breathing gear, you'd likely die from overheating. EVA spacesuits have a complex cooling system built into them to prevent astronauts overheating when they leave a craft. Which sounds insane when the temp outside is -270 degrees, but yeah, science bitch!

seamus wrote: »

As mentioned near the start of the thread, there was an obvious missed opportunity here to explore the Chain better. We spent the entire first season exploring the Klingons and establishing the main players and the prevailing galactic situation. Why didn't we get whole episodes where we see Osyra do her thing without involving Discovery? She was portrayed as a galactic mafia boss, not a major leader in what is effectively another galactic empire.

Because foolishly they think a surprise reveal is a substitute for good world building. Now they may well go onto explore the Chain next season but I don't have much faith in them doing it competently.

Copy pasted this from a post i made on Reddit on how I'd have built up the Emerald Chain and laid out the season in general.

Episode 1:
- We open with Micheal in the 31 century (whatever century they're in, i forget)Working for an organisation called the Emerald chain under Osyraa
- secretly she's trying to use its resources to find Discovery.
- episode will establishing the galactic Status quo generally and the chains perspective on the burn and the federations and its failures specifically.
- The episode would end with them arriving over a pre warp world the chains plans first contacts with only to find a Federation ship already in Orbit. Red alert.

Episode 2 :
- Would see the Discovery crash land on said pre warp planet 24 hours before.
- they Send out a sos on federation channels and race against time to repair and free the ship before the planets pre warp inhabitants reach them.
- Episode ends with a Federation ship arriving in orbit.

Episode 3 :
- both ships lock weapons on eachother and demand to know what the other is doing there. The chain accuse the Federation of hypocrisy for attempting to contact a pre warp civilization after all their high minded rhetoric.
- The Federation Captain accuses the Chain of only being their to exploit the world for its resources. Osyraa responds saying they don't exploit they strike deals, our tech for their resources. Besides ,you don't get to dictate how we survive the scarcity you caused.
- Sensing high technology on the surface , Osyraa transports Michael down to investigate with a security officer, they reach Discovery, the security guard is shocked to discover the crew know Michael, she turns her weapon on him and takes him prisoner .
- After a lot of hugging Saru tells Michael to go help stamets get the spore drive working . Back up in orbit the two captains play for time rattling their sabres .
- The federations ships long range sensors are picking up a chain vessel on an intercept course, they inform Discovery its now or never. Saru calls for a Black Alert . Discovery rises, pulling itself free from the jungle undergrowth , at 200 feet it spore jumps . And appears right behind Osyraas ship, "interesting" she mutters at a technology that could see Discovery just appear without warning behind her. Outnumbered she orders her ship to warp away. The Federation captain is holo projected onto the Discoveries Bridge , Welcome home Discovery.

Episode 4:
- opens with a montage of the crew being debriefed and Michael being interrogated back at federation HQ.
- Debrief complete Saru is called into Admiral Vances office.
- They are being sent to Trill to reestablish contact .
- A Trill first officer Lt cmdr Adira Tal is assigned as Discoveries First officer to give them someone with first hand knowledge of the 31st century and of Trill.
- Saru requests Michael, the Admiral agrees and places Michael in Sarus custody . She is not trusted due to her previous affiliation with the Chain.
They arrive on Trill and are surprised to be taken hostage. They are put in a holding cell and told to wait.
- Osyraa ship arrives in orbit and she transports down, she is greeted with full diplomatic honors not granted to their Federation Guests.
- they inform Osyraa they have a gift for the Chain . Saru Michael and Adira are led into the room in cuffs .
- so Kind but completely unnecessary, release them .
- Saru demands to know whats going on. What are the Chain doing on a Federation world.
- Thats just it , Captain you are no longer on a Federation world Trill is now a member of the Chain .
- Saru looks at the Trill President, while the Federation retreated and licked their wounds after the burn, the Chain were there for us, their supplies staved off famine that would have killed millions, for a modest fee interjects Osyraa, lower now you're a member of course .
- are we free to go Saru asks , of course Osyraa answers.
- they leave and the episode ends .

Episode 5 :
- TNG style Stand alone episode
- Michael asks to be assigned to working on the Burn Data to combine what she already knows from the Chains Analysis.

Episode 6 :
- Tilly tries to Get Michael to open up about the year she spent as a member of the Chain.
- we see Flashbacks of Michael arriving in the 31st century, sending the suit back through the wormhole, meeting Osyraa.
- we see her reluctance to let go of her past life , to give up on the Federation, but then she meets Book , a Chain Courier, and falls in love .
- Book had almost convinced her to leave the Chain with him when she detected the wormhole similar to the one she came through.

Episode 7 :
- more TNG style standalone stuff

Episode 8 :
- a resource rich planet announces its ready to hear competing bids for its membership from the federation and the Chain.
- both sides lay out their strengths and point out their opponents flaws.
- during a break in negotiations, Tilly spots Osyraa and Michael talking in the corridor.
- before she can confront her or inform Saru negotiations resume. Things go back and forth before in a surprising turn of events Osyraa informs them they are withdrawing their bid. The question of why and what Osyraa and Michael were talking about is left hanging as the episode ends .

Episode 9 :
- Owo and Detmar get trapped somehow and we find out more about them, why they decided to abandon all they knew to follow Michael through the wormhole.
- Michael continues to work on the burn .
- episode ends with Micheal Discovering something important about the Burn .

Episode 10 :
- Michael and Stamets research leads them to believe the burn started in a particularly vicious Nebula.
- using the same technique as used in Suka'l they spore jump into a less stormy part of the nebula and transport down onto what appears to be the bridge of the Enterprise D
- rather then a immature Kelpian they discover an elderly Q in ill fitting spandex arguing with himself , we hear Him mutter Jean Luc once or twice .
- Q was imprisoned in the nebula over 800 years ago by the other members of the Q Continium because he was still too immature to move onto the next plane of existence.
- the nebula dampens his powers explaining why he's aged .
- 200 years ago after 500 years of loneliness Q began to lose his mind the psychic shock waves of which caused the burn.
- in the ready room they discuss their options, on the one hand pre imprisonment he was an agent of chaos, on the other hand if he has another psychic meltdown it could destabilise what little dilithium is left in the Alpha/beta Quadrants . They decide to break him out of his imprisonment .
- culber manages to calm Q down and they transport up to the Discovery and make ready to Spore jump believing the mycelium network will allow them to breach the nebula with Q in tow.
- free from the nebula mental interference, Q becomes more lucid and the consequences of his imprisonment and the burn, are laid out . Really? Q asks I caused all that ? Dont worry I can fix this, he snaps his fingers but nothing happens, with the continium gone so too went his powers, for the first time in his life he can't just snap his finger and undo his mistakes. He is distraught.
- Culber informs him they are letting him go , there is nothing they could do that would punish him any more then he's doing himself.
- Q leaves the ship promising to be a better man and earn the right to follow his brothers onto the next plane .

Episode 11 :
- Discovery receives a distress signal from Osyraa she claims she wants to defect and is being pursued by a chain ship. Discovery steps in and rescues her and they head back to HQ so Osyraa can be debriefed and talk to Admiral Vance .
- when they get there Osyraa is slapped in cuffs and thrown in a cell . They don't believe her , yet.
- The Admiral discusses their options , take what she has to say at face value or interrogate her .
- they opt for the latter , she is being led off to be interrogated when Michael energes from the shadows and stuns the guards . They sneak into Vances office taking him prisoner and locking the doors .
- I knew I shouldn't have trusted you (Vance to Michael)
- episode ends

Episode 12 :
- last scene is recapped, in her defence i have someone she loves(book was taken hostage as soon as Michael betrayed Ossyra in ep 1), so I wouldn't judge her too harshly .
- she explains the reason for the subterfuge, she wasn't defecting she is there to negotiate an armistice and merger between the Chain and Federation.
- as she explains it , we are a mercantile conglomerate dealing in lifes necessities , our trade network has kept hundreds of worlds economies afloat and preventing them from starving . For a price Vance retorts . Dilithium costs money Admiral, our Chains stability relies on our ability to fulfil our obligations and we are running low on Dilithium. Without more a hundred worlds will fall into chaos and starvation. Which brings me to my point , we are aware you have come into possession of a novel bit of technology that if replicated could open up the Galaxy again, to both of us. We both have something the other wants Admiral , we represent 45% of the planets of your once mighty Federation , wouldn't you like them to return to the fold ? . Share the technology with us and we will forge our future together. Vance tells her they still haven't been able to replicate the tech , let us help Osyraa replies . You've given me food for thought , let me take what you've said to my superiors. I'm trusting you Admiral ,Ossyra nods to Michael and puts her hands over her head, Michael presses a button and unlocks the door and a stream of security guards rush in .
-all the above would be interspersed with Discovery crew reacting to Michael's betrayal and Federation security trying to break into the office .
-Episode ends

Episode 13 :
-last scene recap Vance tells them its OK and to take them back to the ambassadorial quarters for now.
- Saru it told to wait outside Vances office while he confers with the federation council on the Chains offer.
- he emerges looking drawn . He explains the situation to Saru , the council are tentatively agreeing to the proposal, but with a few changes , and I don't think they're going to like them .
- in the Ambassadorial quarters , Osyraa tells Michael she doesn't blame her for her betrayal from ep 1 , we do anything for the ones we love. What do you know about love Michael retorts , I love the chain My dear the needs of "IT'S" many outweigh the needs of the one or on occasion... hundred.
- Vance calls them to his office , the Federation council has provisionally agreed to your proposal on one condition , you hand yourself over to be judged in a court of law for your crimes on Miranda 3 .
-Osyra is shocked and disgusted, part of the proposal was amnesty for all Admiral, what you call a massacre I call a trade dispute. Michael drags her to a corner and reminds her what she said about Loving the chain and the needs of the many .
- she returns to the table. Its a deal breaker for your people?, it is Vance replies . She looks back over to Burnham, then I agree to your terms .
- Michael meets Osyraa in the shuttle bay where she is to be taken to a penal colony to await trial.
- Michael promises to be a character witness .
- season ends with the first chain ship ever to dock at federation HQ , they are there escorting the Chains greatest scientific minds to help with unlocking the secret to replicating the spore drive .
- it is a happy optimistic note to end on , only lifted more when Book is the last person down the gangway , Burnham rushes into his arms
- season ends .

Sorry for the TL;DR post.

Sleepy wrote: »

PhiloCypher - nice plotting but your Copy Paste missed the last line:

... Burnham rushes into his arms.
- Book pulls a knife and slits her throat for her betrayal of The Chain.

*Insert Gowron "This we do not forgive, or forget" meme here*