Discovery 3x12 - 'There Is A Tide...' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

corkie

Discovery 3x12 - 'There Is A Tide...' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }


Directed by Jonathan Frakes


IMDb Link: - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12047914/

Memory-alpha epsiode breakdown: - https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/There_Is_A_Tide..._(episode)

The title of this episode is taken from a line of William Shakespeare's play, Julius Caesar. The relevant passage reads:

There is a tide in the affairs of men
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.
On such a full sea are we now afloat,
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures.

Star Trek: Discovery | "There Is A Tide..." (S3, E12) Recap | The Ready Room
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^^^ Above links probably contain spoiler information.

Sad Professor wrote: »

Folks, in relation to spoilers, you don't have to use spoiler tags in the episode threads. If someone hasn't seen the episode yet then they shouldn't be reading the thread, period. When it airs on Netflix doesn't matter. I would suggest that whoever starts the thread put a spoiler warning in the title. I'll add one to this now.

Happy New Year!

Warning: This thread will contain spoilers for the episode. Spoiler tags will not be used, so if you don't want to be spoiled read no further.

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{ ** Spoilers Below ** }

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ilovesmybrick

Much better than the really poor showings of the past few weeks. However, it does make the wasted time in the mirror universe more apparent. It might have been just me, but I didn't get the impression that the chain was anything more than a large gang, like the Orion syndicate, but here it appears that it's actually a fully fledged civilisation equal to the Federation and Osyra is an MP or one leader of many or something? It would have been a really, really good idea to have spent some time actually explaining what the chain was, rather than any of the mirror universe stuff. Again, this could just be me missing something earlier in the season, but it took me a moment to understand what was going on since the Chain had only been presented as a criminal organisation with Osyra as the head.

Michael still finds time to breathlessly tell everyone she knows how much she loves them. Extremely tired and a complete waste of time. Though now we know the Vulcans will save the day somehow. I also wasn't fully on board with Stamets at the end of the episode. It may have worked if it had been shown that he had the PTSD that Detmar had briefly in the early episodes, but his behaviour is coming from left of field. As with all the criticism of this show, it comes down to weak writing and what appears to be a disjointed overall conception of the season. Similarly the robots at the end are a major Deus ex machina. Yes, the sentient computer was discussed early on, however briefly, buta small bit of development of this plot point would have gone a long way.

Aside from the criticisms I think it's one of the better episodes of a poor season. Not bad, but not great. And I know this is a bit unfair, but watching Disco after The Expanse really does this show no favours!

GSPfan

I liked that episode. I think it switched between locations and characters quite well and everyone was doing something. The Admiral is good.

However.... the convenience of Bookers ship not being able to communicate with the Federation at the last second made me roll my eyes.
The reason for Booker and the Andorian to stay in that room was because.....? To be captured I guess. Bad decision.
Tilly on her redemption arc to recapture the bridge has to work or else she will just look completely useless.
Are they trying to make Burnham have a Die Hard moment? She’s injured, bleeding, and has lost her shoes. If she tapes a phaser to her back she’s definitely John McClane.

ilovesmybrick

GSPfan wrote: »

If she tapes a phaser to her back she’s definitely John McClane.

Well she got the 31st century equivalent of it retracting into that wrist mount thing, which was pretty cool!

Goodshape

Rubbish.

Spear

I thought it was okayish. It's pretty much by the numbers, and Die Hard in space was the same thing I thought of.

I did like the two points that expectations of characters were subverted, with Ossyra actually being a more visionary character, and instead of the suspected heel turn from the admiral, he turned out to be more principled to the point of wrecking a peace treaty.

Slydice

Hrmmm.. real TOS/70s/80s movies feel to this one. Pity Osyraa couldn't just take that next step. Guessing she was worried she'd be treated like how she treats her own.

I'm unsure how a battle would happen in this situation inside the big shield. It's confusing that one hasn't happened so now it's confusing why one would. Looks like just the leverage of the small number of crew but they are still there.

I'm not sure about Hugh for the finale. Maybe Adiras drugs work. Stamets is gonna lose it if he loses Hugh.


I had to pause early on in the episode when the starfleet ships like the Song started turning towards Discovery. Their shape and design so different but somehow familiar .. maybe from other scifi. I'm guessing that's how they went after losing Warp Engines.

Next one is the season finale... after Burnhams message, I'm guessing the Ni'Var might turn up with Michaels mother.

fritzelly

Decent enough episode but the whole season feels like one big disjointed story unlike previous seasons

The Burn was a complete letdown - some kid shouting - so many better ways that story could have gone
Emerald Chain are not that bad of a baddie - at least expected some kind of big battle (maybe that will come in the finale)
The admiral had an air about him of something not quite right but that seems out the window now (was thinking species 8472, even a mate thought the same)
The mirror universe taking 2 episodes to say goodbye to a character ffs

Doesn't really leave much else of substance to this season

But I will continue to watch for all the crumbs of Star Trek we all know and love that pop up now and again

And Burnham not giving a damn about anyone else except herself - so not Starfleet

CastorTroy

Well showing near Christmas they needed to do something Christmassy, so Die Hard. Michael McClane.
Though why didn't she use her gun to shoot the one holding her legs?

Her ignoring Stamets' pleas really does her no favours considering all the times people have taken a huge risk on her, as he pointed out. At what point are we meant to get behind her?

Where'd Lt. Nilsson go? It's like she was replaced in the last 2 episodes by the new one who imdb has as Lt. Ina.

Considering the low bar set by previous episodes that was okay.

The admiral thinking Osyra was going to allow herself to go on trial and it being a deal breaker was moronic considering everything else seemed good with lots of compromise. Also thought the actress performed better as she had a more nuanced role to work with.

Dave0301

That episode was very meh for me.

I did enjoy the scenes with Vance and Osyraa, but I have liked Vance from the start.

Was disappointed that Burnham didn't whisper Yippee Ki Yay, motherf*cker as Stamets was shot out into space.

alchemist33

Another good episode compared to what went before. The high points were the development of the Emeralds (Ossyra, the scientist, their whole culture) and non-Burnhams getting significant roles.

I'm not so sure about the Die Hard tribute. It'll go down well with fans of the show but as a sceptic I kept thinking "you haven't earned a Die Hard tribute". And when Osyra came on board with the guys with the helmets I couldn't help thinking this looked like a Daftpunk tribute band.

And I wouldn't blame Burnham for what she did. She was effectively disabling Discovery so the baddies couldn't run away with it.

alchemist33

alchemist33 wrote: »

And I wouldn't blame Burnham for what she did. She was effectively disabling Discovery so the baddies couldn't run away with it.

The needs of the many...

liamtech

I didnt enjoy it - while i acknowledge that it is better than previous episodes, that is not a high fence to jump

The offer of alliance, if it was real which remains a question, then the Admiral is a complete MORON - Blanket amnesty for crimes committed during the period.

And peace, with the federation gaining access to Orion Assets, and visa versa, RE The Spore Drive

The Burnham saves the day saga, is just becoming beyond boring at this stage, i found myself getting up and doing other stuff, while she was doing her DIE-HARD MOMENTS -

I cannot see myself looking forward to the next season of this. For me it is a massive let down, and IMHO the worst season of Trek since Enterprise S2 (the ultimate worst for me is ENT S2, but disco s3 is giving this a run for its money)

^^^ I think she was literally told 'Go save the day' or such by Tilly. Self awareness is not something that could be levelled at these writers.

Star Fleet food seems a bit shıt. It should should also be noted that Starfleet should be doing anything to secure a deal what with having to eat their own excrement.

Spear

CastorTroy wrote: »

Though why didn't she use her gun to shoot the one holding her legs?

Where'd Lt. Nilsson go? It's like she was replaced in the last 2 episodes by the new one who imdb has as Lt. Ina.

I'd guess that the weapon discharge would be seen on sensors. The little cloak gadget only hides her life signs. Equally killing him, would show him dropping off the sensors and thus raise the alarm.

In terms of Nilsson vanishing, I'd suspect that's a Covid related thing. Tig Notaro commented in an interview that the has had her screen time cut as she couldn't travel to the set due to varying lockdowns and border controls.

AlmightyCushion

Does any one else think the plot was incredibly stupid and contrived? She wants to broker a peace treaty with Star Fleet, so she attacks and captures one of their ships and holds the crew hostage. Not exactly a good starting point for negotiations. Why would the admiral even discuss her treaty while she was in control of one of his ships and holding some of the crew hostage. it's so fúcking stupid.

CastorTroy

Spear wrote: »

I'd guess that the weapon discharge would be seen on sensors. The little cloak gadget only hides her life signs. Equally killing him, would show him dropping off the sensors and thus raise the alarm.

I meant the one in the tube. Maybe it had to recharge after setting off the sensor

GreeBo

That's the worst one so far for me.
They literally had book say "go save the universe Michael"!

Some plot holes for me:
Trying to avoid obstacles in books ship... Yet keep transforming into the widest ship possible, right up to when they crash though the field... Surely that was the shape to keep all along??

Who did Burnham shout "brace yourself" too? Was it just incase book wasn't paying attention??

Why try to strangle the guard? Just pop him and move on?
As for the silent stabbing and subsequent removal and phaser...pft.

No idea why the two lads stayed behind, they achieved nothing

The r2d2 lads at the end were shocking, shark jumping moment for me when they started high fiving reach other.
I actually called it before it happened and was taking the piss, can't believe they actually did it.

The scenes with admiral weren't terrible, but was a big flaw to let them in, books ship could surely have fired on them we a warning.

Goodshape

GreeBo wrote: »

The r2d2 lads at the end were shocking, shark jumping moment for me when they started high fiving reach other.
I actually called it before it happened and was taking the piss, can't believe they actually did it.

They were practically doing Vulcan salutes with their three-digit hands.

The amount of pointless and nonsensical **special effect** in this show is crazy. I can't stand that blue blur of a space station or whatever it is the admiral is supposed to be on. What's with the walkway that only builds itself as you take a step to walk on it?? Why? What needs to be there when it's not a walkway? Is there some other use of that stupid white circular room with nothing in it and two doors on other side?! And why are they always ****ing walking in it - where are they going?!?

And in this episode, they got to the other side of the walkway and were transported upstairs!! WHAT. Why does that room exist at all?


And then they just sit around and literally start making excuses for the atrocities of capitalism. Sounding no more enlightened or wise in 1000 years than any military general would today.

It might just be the straw that broke the camel's back, but I really hated this episode.

GreeBo

Goodshape wrote: »

They were practically doing Vulcan salutes with their three-digit hands.

The amount of pointless and nonsensical **special effect** in this show is crazy. I can't stand that blue blur of a space station or whatever it is the admiral is supposed to be on. What's with the walkway that only builds itself as you take a step to walk on it?? Why? What needs to be there when it's not a walkway? Is there some other use of that stupid white circular room with nothing in it and two doors on other side?! And why are they always ****ing walking in it - where are they going?!?

And in this episode, they got to the other side of the walkway and were transported upstairs!! WHAT. Why does that room exist at all?


And then they just sit around and literally start making excuses for the atrocities of capitalism. Sounding no more enlightened or wise in 1000 years than any military general would today.

It might just be the straw that broke the camel's back, but I really hated this episode.

The only redeeming feature is the emerald chain backstory, but why be so secret about it until now? Surely the admiral or book could have told us all about that?
Feels like they are doing just in time writing and are going to back themselves into a corner and finish badly like GOT.


+1 on the daft punk security team.

I have 2 question. Why the reference to Wall-E? The video was a replay of it.

How did Michael get shoes?

Banana Republic 1

At least bullshi1t can be used as fertiliser, this episodes was just pure un - recyclable plastic fcukin waste. Stamets had the best line of the whole discovery saga” Micheal Burnham your a nothing but a whispering a c**t

The other thing that is beyond rebuttal now is that Jonathan Frakes, Riker, couldn’t direct piss into a pot.

TheValeyard

Okay episode.

Some good parts ruined by over Michaelisms.

Would have liked a few better shots of the Fed ships.

Plot was decent.

I see that Scientist probably will play a big role for next episode or season 4.

The Admiral is no fool. I like him.

The chain seem to be more of a developed alliance, reminds me of the US Confederates, but actually want to rejoin a union.

Where's the Klingons, Ferengi, Breen, Cardassians, Borg, 8472, and a whole lot more??? Still know very little about the state of play in Trek verse.

All they eat is Replicated food? Seems odd.

Romulan, Vulcans and Trills to arrive and save the day.

What species was the woman who got airlocked?

One to go!

GreeBo

TheValeyard wrote: »

Okay episode.

Some good parts ruined by over Michaelisms.

Would have liked a few better shots of the Fed ships.

Plot was decent.

I see that Scientist probably will play a big role for next episode or season 4.

The Admiral is no fool. I like him.

The chain seem to be more of a developed alliance, reminds me of the US Confederates, but actually want to rejoin a union.

Where's the Klingons, Ferengi, Breen, Cardassians, Borg, 8472, and a whole lot more??? Still know very little about the state of play in Trek verse.

All they eat is Replicated food? Seems odd.

Romulan, Vulcans and Trills to arrive and save the day.

What species was the woman who got airlocked?

One to go!

I guess they are living in/on a cobbled together space station so farming want a priority?

One huge gap alright is how the chain can keep up command over vast distances by fear, but the federation can't do it with their previous allies? That make no sense.

Is this a bad time to tell you I love you?
Piss off you whispering cur, we are under attack!

GreeBo

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

At least bullshi1t can be used as fertiliser, this episodes was just pure un - recyclable plastic fcukin waste. Stamets had the best line of the whole discovery saga” Micheal Burnham your a nothing but a whispering a c**t

The other thing that is beyond rebuttal now is that Jonathan Frakes, Riker, couldn’t direct piss into a pot.

No director could do anything with these storylines, I'm not sure you can even blame the actors, your have to imagine the scripts are full of <Michael whispers while crying> guides for the actors.

You'd have to wonder if they know it's crap out they actually are smelling their own farts at this stage?


Btw the stamets storyline came out of nowhere and while it could have been made to be believable, it's like they forgot to mention the fact they he is barely clinging on. I'm just surprised/thankful they aren't using flashbacks to tell us!


/Edit lol at Burnham dropping her fricken mum a phonecall..."I'll see you in the next future"
<The audience barfs collectively, a lone, wet fart is heard, fin.>

Banana Republic 1

GreeBo wrote: »

No director could do anything with these storylines, I'm not sure you can even blame the actors, your have to imagine the scripts are full of <Michael whispers while crying> guides for the actors.

You'd have to wonder if they know it's crap out they actually are smelling their own farts at this stage?


Btw the stamets storyline came out of nowhere and while it could have been made to be believable, it's like they forgot to mention the fact they he is barely clinging on. I'm just surprised/thankful they aren't using flashbacks to tell us!


/Edit lol at Burnham dropping her fricken mum a phonecall..."I'll see you in the next future"
<The audience barfs collectively, a lone, wet fart is heard, fin.>

I know the actors are just doing what there told but for me every one of the frakes directed episodes were dreadful. There were scenes in this were straight out of bad American soap opera, the camera work was noticeable.

Maybe he is sabotaging it under their noses or could that he is handed the dog sh1te so they ruin his reputation. I don’t think frakes directed last weeks one but there was a significant continuity blunder with Tilly’s hair. I’m reminded of the scene in a Anchorman were they changed burgundies autoque, there must be issues.

It is interesting that they seem use stamets to callout the bullsh1t to some extent, he did it with Tilly only to later flip flop and now Burnham. I find that trait far more interesting and believable in the context of the show, I think detmar turned also its a pity the writers were so route 1 in the storytelling department.

CastorTroy

AllForIt wrote: »

Oh, but the guy in the wheelchair was such a bad actor. It was painful to watch. With the modern day haircut and beard of 2021. What was he representing? I'm not sure. People who fashion themselves that way I suppose. Uggh.

The actor has played a number of roles in recent Trek including Kol in earlier Discovery and was recently diagnosed with ALS.

PirateShampoo

When did they adopt Adira? Does she know she's been adopted? Arnt they a Adult? Stamits going all Papa Larzarou.

Can we talk about the Fire Systems on Discovery. So the first fire suppression hides the life signs of everyone in the cargo bay when you would want the exact opposite to happen.

Then when you get a fire in a Jeffery Tube it fires everybody out of a Airlock. Wtf

I have captured ur crew I have demands
Okay what are they
You have to admit I'm valid T_T

Stamets calling out Michael is the best bit

Banana Republic 1

bluewolf wrote: »

Stamets calling out Michael is the best bit

Of the entire three season saga.

AllForIt

I found a lot of the comments here more entertaining than the episode itself.

Totally agree that the visuals are way OTT. The floor that appears only when it's required is just beyond dumb. Even in the future such a setup would be quite unsettling. Isn't anyone scared of heights in the future. Like how could you walk around confidently when you don't see the floor yet, just to materialize at the moment you need it. It's just so stupid. The whole thing is just so stupid. I'll watch the final episode but that's it whether is returns or not.


edit: I admire those who are able to criticise the plot because one must be able to follow it in the first place to do that. I haven't a clue what's going on. Because once I've lost interest it's hard to have enough interest at the same time to follow it.

bilbot79

Hello????

Burnham did a f***ing Vulcan nerve pinch!!!!

Leonard Nimoy must be turning in his grave and saying 'First the whispering...and now this??'

Spock could show emotion from time to time because he was half human. Sonequa Martin Green may not Vulcan Nerve Pinch because she is not Vulcan and does not compare to Spock!!!

TheValeyard

bilbot79 wrote: »

Hello????

Burnham did a f***ing Vulcan nerve pinch!!!!

Leonard Nimoy must be turning in his grave and saying 'First the whispering...and now this??'

Spock could show emotion from time to time because he was half human. Sonequa Martin Green may not Vulcan Nerve Pinch because she is not Vulcan and does not compare to Spock!!!

Think Data was able to do it.

And Picard could do it after the mindmeld with Sarek.

Archer also did it while carrying the Katra of Surak.

Odo also did it

Goodshape

TheValeyard wrote: »

Think Data was able to do it.

And Picard could do it after the mindmeld with Sarek.

Archer also did it while carrying the Katra of Surak.

Odo also did it

So, to recap:


Data: is an Android with super human strength.

Picard: had some sort of super-mindmeld with Sarek.

Archer: had the Katra of Surak inside him.

Odo: is a Founder.

Michael Burnham: is Michael Burnham.

CastorTroy

Goodshape wrote: »

So, to recap:
Michael Burnham: is Michael Burnham.

It's an even more valid explanation for anything than "I'm Batman"

flazio

Michael Burnham is raised on Vulcan and would have been exposed to the same mind melding tricks that the other humans who pinched opponents would have.

TheValeyard

Goodshape wrote: »

So, to recap:


Data: is an Android with super human strength.

Picard: had some sort of super-mindmeld with Sarek.

Archer: had the Katra of Surak inside him.

Odo: is a Founder.

Michael Burnham: is Michael Burnham.

Burham had mindmelds with Sarek. She would have learned that from him. Same way Picard would in the 24th century.

silverharp

what is the physics of venting into space, they made it look like it was just a 747 with a window blown open, im guessing it more like 2 seconds and your body temperature starts trending to 0

AMKC

That was a better episode than the last two episode but still had some issues. Still too much Micheal Burnham.
Stemats all of a sudden having PTSD.

Bookers silly ship crash landing on the Discovery lol and his communication conveniently going just as they got to Federation headquarters.

At least the federation admiral is not talking any **** for Osyra even if they are literally eating it.

Booker and Ryn staying in the room to end up getting caught did not make sense.

I was disapointed that the computer on Discovery did not do more or even try to stop Osyras people from talking control of the ship. Very disappointed how easy it was taking over by them too.

It would have been nice to get more info on the chain alright but I guess we know now what they are basically.

Stark

silverharp wrote: »

what is the physics of venting into space, they made it look like it was just a 747 with a window blown open, im guessing it more like 2 seconds and your body temperature starts trending to 0

Well in space you're insulated somewhat by being in a vacuum so you would only lose heat through radiation.

Stark

Stark wrote: »

Well in space you're insulated somewhat by being in a vacuum so you would only lose heat through radiation.

Interesting. Never thought of that.


I'm guessing from the same vacuum your internal body pressure will get you first.

TheValeyard

silverharp wrote: »

what is the physics of venting into space, they made it look like it was just a 747 with a window blown open, im guessing it more like 2 seconds and your body temperature starts trending to 0

What species was she?

PirateShampoo

Stark wrote: »

Well in space you're insulated somewhat by being in a vacuum so you would only lose heat through radiation.

Your blood kinda boils with the pressure, bit like the bends.

Banana Republic 1

silverharp wrote: »

what is the physics of venting into space, they made it look like it was just a 747 with a window blown open, im guessing it more like 2 seconds and your body temperature starts trending to 0

From the people who brought you sonar in space!

Banana Republic 1

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

From the people who brought you sonar in space!

In space no one can hear you ping !

AllForIt

Re the Die Hard scene, I didn't see that, I saw Aliens.

TheValeyard

AllForIt wrote: »

Re the Die Hard scene, I didn't see that, I saw Aliens.

Stark

AllForIt wrote: »

Re the Die Hard scene, I didn't see that, I saw Aliens.

There's a scene where Burnham literally runs through a corridor in her bare feet that screams "Die Hard".

Smacruairi

Stark wrote: »

There's a scene where Burnham literally runs through a corridor in her bare feet that screams "Die Hard".

Though realistically it's more like Caddyshack with your man talking to himself taking out the goafers