Journalism and cycling

rubadub · 14-01-2019 5:11pm

Tombo2001 wrote: »

(I) That's debatable - once the bike is purchased, then its second hand, so its 'value' is diminished.

the 3K haul of cocaine & cannabis is likely a few joint butts and some dust scraped off a rolled up 50!

Hurrache · 14-01-2019 6:25pm

Didn't see them get involved with removing that car on Aungier Street for weeks when they were all concerned about cyclists and safety
https://twitter.com/GardaTraffic/status/1084840272058597376?s=19

TheChizler · 15-01-2019 10:24am

cjt156 wrote: »

Interesting that the drug value makes the headline.

The value of the bikes stolen is far in excess of that figure; but sure they're only bikes...

Someone's listening!

https://www.eveningecho.ie/nationalnews/Three-arrested-in-Cork-as-suspected-stolen-bikes-recovered-by-gardai-ebea6243-a16f-446a-8bc5-f44daf3dded5-ds

BrianHenryIE · 15-01-2019 9:07pm

Six Ways the Media is Still Blaming the Victim
usa.streetsblog.org/2019/01/14/six-ways-the-media-is-still-blaming-the-victim

Nothing new for readers of this thread but it's clearly laid out and could be sent to journalists to teach them the error of their ways.

mr spuckler · 17-01-2019 11:22am

reading sh1t like this makes me really bloody angry.

Ministers criticise increased drink-driving checkpoints

buffalo · 17-01-2019 11:42am

mr spuckler wrote: »

reading sh1t like this makes me really bloody angry.

Ministers criticise increased drink-driving checkpoints

Read that earlier. My favourite is the call of 'police state', which I guess in this context means a state where police operate?

magicbastarder · 17-01-2019 11:45am

Another Minister said community policing was the backbone of how An Garda Síochána worked and suggested “stopping people going to Mass” could undermine that.

it'll only stop them going to mass if they're actually over the limit. does not compute.

Duckjob · 17-01-2019 12:30pm

mr spuckler wrote: »

reading sh1t like this makes me really bloody angry.

Ministers criticise increased drink-driving checkpoints

Makes me laugh when cyclists are accused of having a sense of "entitlement" - especially since the accusation in a lot of cases probably comes from the same people that give out about driving laws being enforced like this.

In the same way when driving down a 60kph road I've taken to saying "F*CKING HYPOCRITES!" at the 95% of drivers that pass me a good 10-20kph faster because logically I think many of them must be the same people that get on thejournal.ie at every opportunity to rant about cyclists going through red lights.

Duckjob · 17-01-2019 12:40pm

Also, I can't imagine the gardai would continue pouring ample resources into morning checks if they weren't actually detecting many people over the limit.

Did it not occur to any of these people complaining that the reason the gardai are probably doing so much morning checking in certain areas is because, y'know, they're actually catching lots of people in the morning who are behind the wheel and endangering others as they are not fit to drive safely ?

mr spuckler · 17-01-2019 12:44pm

Duckjob wrote: »

Also, I can't imagine the gardai would continue pouring ample resources into morning checks if they weren't actually detecting many people over the limit.

Did it not occur to any of these people complaining that the reason the gardai are probably doing so much morning checking in certain areas is because, y'know, they're actually catching lots of people in the morning who are behind the wheel and endangering others as they are not fit to drive safely ?

doesn't it say that 10% of those caught in December were in the morning time? so there is a problem that needs to be tackled. allocate more resources to evening / night time checks but continue morning time checks also. if nothing else it might deter those who are still feeling rough from the night before from getting behind the wheel.

Hurrache · 18-01-2019 1:02am

Remember that RSA **** piece in the Indo a few weeks ago, well that was the toned down version. The story on the front page below is staggering given it allegedly came from an "expert" in the RSA.
https://twitter.com/thetimesIE/status/1086045631481868293?s=19

Tell me how · 18-01-2019 1:33am

Hurrache wrote: »

Remember that RSA **** piece in the Indo a few weeks ago, well that was the toned down version. The story on the front page below is staggering given it allegedly came from an "expert" in the RSA.

An easier post to read.

https://twitter.com/SafeCyclingEire/status/1086050226845220865

Not sure how hard they worked to try to get the name of the author.

The RSA responded to a query from a friend of mine and said who it was.

Hurrache · 18-01-2019 9:13am

Was there any googling done as to the qualifications of the "expert" and his/her history within the RSA?

I guess they maybe redacted the name for the Times as they didn't want it published.

amcalester · 18-01-2019 9:28am

Hurrache wrote: »

Was there any googling done as to the qualifications of the "expert" and his/her history within the RSA?

I guess they maybe redacted the name for the Times as they didn't want it published.

I emailed the RSA at the time and was told that it was the Communications Manager who

is a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists and also has a RoSPA Gold Advanced Driving Qualification. They have also been working in road safety for the past 16 years.

Both of those are driving qualifications which anyone can do in a few hours.

Google throws up a name of the RSA Communications Manager but I couldnt find a LInkedIn profile for him so difficult to know if he has any actual Road Safety experience.

I don't want to name him here as that may be unfair but it should be easy to find.

magicbastarder · 18-01-2019 9:30am

mind if i tweet your post to richie oakley, amcalester?

magicbastarder · 18-01-2019 9:32am

though - further to my comments before about it being incredible that a communications manager wrote the article as it was published, if it is true that a communications manager wrote the unpublished article, it becomes properly head scratching. and a matter for resignation, IMHO.

amcalester · 18-01-2019 9:33am

magicbastarder wrote: »

mind if i tweet your post to richie oakley, amcalester?

Yeah, go for it. I'm not on Twitter or I'd have done it myself.

magicbastarder · 18-01-2019 9:38am

done

https://twitter.com/JSWeetabix/status/1086180844157526016

Chiparus · 18-01-2019 10:31am

magicbastarder wrote: »

done

https://twitter.com/JSWeetabix/status/1086180844157526016

Not sure it is the communications manager , reading this article

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/how-to-reduce-cycling-deaths-and-accidents-in-ireland-1.3484062

“There is a lack of understanding for and appreciation of cyclists. We are at great pains to try to get across the message that the road is a shared space and everybody is entitled to use it. No user has a greater entitlement than any other'.

magicbastarder · 18-01-2019 10:36am

well, the question still is who went off-message and managed to fire off an off-message article to a national newspaper; and if they did so without authorisation, are they going to be disciplined?

amcalester · 18-01-2019 10:37am

Chiparus wrote: »

Not sure it is the communications manager , reading this article

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/how-to-reduce-cycling-deaths-and-accidents-in-ireland-1.3484062

“There is a lack of understanding for and appreciation of cyclists. We are at great pains to try to get across the message that the road is a shared space and everybody is entitled to use it. No user has a greater entitlement than any other'.

Well if it wasn't the Communications Manager, he might want to have a word with his Communications Department as it was they who named him as the author.

I've replied back to the original email asking the RSA to re-confirm, I've also name checked who I believe to be the Communications Manager so we'll see what they say.

Chips Lovell · 18-01-2019 10:37am

There's a very charitable assumption there that they do have a coherent "message".

Chiparus · 18-01-2019 10:59am

amcalester wrote: »

Well if it wasn't the Communications Manager, he might want to have a word with his Communications Department as it was they who named him as the author.

I've replied back to the original email asking the RSA to re-confirm, I've also name checked who I believe to be the Communications Manager so we'll see what they say.

The one named in the IT article above?

Because here is another article -

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/drivers-do-not-own-the-road-450174.html

amcalester · 18-01-2019 11:02am

Chiparus wrote: »

The one named in the article?

The article you linked to, yes.

When I googled it myself that name came up a lot so I've asked the RSA to confirm if he wrote the article.

Chiparus · 18-01-2019 11:05am

amcalester wrote: »

The article you linked to, yes.

When I googled it myself that name came up a lot so I've asked the RSA to confirm if he wrote the article.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/drivers-do-not-own-the-road-450174.html

"but said that anti-cyclist rhetoric from high-profile commentators is “very unhelpful”."

Reading this it does not seem to be the same guy.

Duckjob · 18-01-2019 11:20am

Chiparus wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/drivers-do-not-own-the-road-450174.html

"but said that anti-cyclist rhetoric from high-profile commentators is “very unhelpful”."

Reading this it does not seem to be the same guy.

If its not him, he should surely be asking some questions as to how a piece dripping with empty anti-cyclist rhetoric and devoid of any hard data or research was authorised for be released. He is the communications manager of the organisation after all (unless he has has moved on and is not there anymore).

Chiparus · 18-01-2019 11:23am

amcalester wrote: »

The article you linked to, yes.

When I googled it myself that name came up a lot so I've asked the RSA to confirm if he wrote the article.

Duckjob wrote: »

If its not him, he should surely be asking some questions as to how a piece dripping with empty anti-cyclist rhetoric and devoid of any hard data or research was authorised for be released. He is the communications manager of the organisation after all (unless he has has moved on and is not there anymore).

Very good point.
Another interesting point is the photo used here :

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/heres-how-some-busy-bee-cyclists-are-bending-the-rules-of-the-road-37594123.html

Is the same as the RSA's tweet this morning.
https://twitter.com/RSAIreland/status/1086012789381046274

amcalester · 18-01-2019 11:41am

amcalester wrote: »

Well if it wasn't the Communications Manager, he might want to have a word with his Communications Department as it was they who named him as the author.

I've replied back to the original email asking the RSA to re-confirm, I've also name checked who I believe to be the Communications Manager so we'll see what they say.

The RSA have confirmed to me the name of the author so not sure why it was redacted on the FOI request.

@ Mods: Can I post it here?

mr spuckler · 18-01-2019 11:50am

I posted this on Twitter, but I've read many of the pieces written by "RSA Expert" for the Independent and the contrast in tone between ALL of the others & the cycling related one is incredible.
even when they talk about the killer behaviours they don't strike such an aggressive tone.

their language from the Project Edward related piece was just odd imo.

The first year, 2016, there were two deaths in Ireland. Last year there were none. This year let us pray for a similar result (when I say 'us' I mean Garda and RSA as Project Edward is driven by the two agencies).

Last year's results speak for themselves. Despite 522 speeding offences, 89 mobile phone, 18 drink or drug-driving arrests and 29 safety-belt infringements detected on the day, there were no fatalities.

But was Project Edward responsible for this? It's likely it was.

Independent research by Behaviour and Attitudes showed great public support and goodwill for it. Four-in-10 road users were aware of last year's project. Of those, almost 75pc felt it was effective in influencing people to drive more safely.

aside from the reliance on prayers to avoid road deaths, the rest of it reads as if it was written by a teenager.

Tell me how · 18-01-2019 11:52am

amcalester wrote: »

The RSA have confirmed to me the name of the author so not sure why it was redacted on the FOI request.

@ Mods: Can I post it here?

I can confirm that the name attributed to the role of the communications manager in an article above is the same name who the RSA have said wrote the original article.

mr spuckler · 18-01-2019 12:30pm

reading the RSA's cycle safety booklet just now.

Always obey the Rules of the Road. Other road users will respect you more if you respect the rules.

sigh.

xckjoo · 18-01-2019 1:37pm

Mad that it was a "toned down" version of the article that got published. I don't think the author is fit for purpose in the RSA if this is how they view things. If they had any self respect they'd cycle to work for a month to get a more balanced view towards all road users. Which, you know, is part of their job....

Muahahaha · 18-01-2019 4:23pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

well, the question still is who went off-message and managed to fire off an off-message article to a national newspaper; and if they did so without authorisation, are they going to be disciplined?

The Times article says that there was a first draft of the piece and then it was only approved when some choice language was taken out. Which means there was at least two people involved, one writing it and one editing it.

I find it absolutely astoinishing that the RSA could even think of penning an article like this, dont mind what the first draft contained. Like the actual agency whose job it is to encourage road safety is instead attacking the most vulnerable people on the road. You couldnt make it up.

mr spuckler · 18-01-2019 4:33pm

I'm actually very disappointed that the IRVA (Irish Road Victim's Association) haven't called them out on this. They were very quick yesterday (and correctly so) to call out the TDs yesterday on their drink driving checkpoints comments.

Chips Lovell · 18-01-2019 4:36pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

I find it absolutely astoinishing that the RSA could even....

This is the RSA we're talking about here

amcalester · 18-01-2019 6:45pm

I just read the second part of that IT article and Brian Farrell is quoted in it but doesn’t identify himself as the author.

He says that references to “psycho lane” in the original draft were never intended for publication.

Tell me how · 18-01-2019 6:50pm

amcalester wrote: »

I just read the second part of that IT article and Brian Farrell is quoted in it but doesn’t identify himself as the author.

He says that references to “psycho lane” in the original draft were never intended for publication.

He did write it though. Maybe even though he is not acknowledging that, he isn't actually denying it either.

I wonder how he genuinely feels about it now? He made a mistake or is just waiting for this to blow over.

amcalester · 18-01-2019 6:54pm

Tell me how wrote: »

He did write it though. Maybe even though he is not acknowledging that, he isn't actually denying it either.

I wonder how he genuinely feels about it now? He made a mistake or is just waiting for this to blow over.

I know he did, which is why I find it strange that when asked which area of the RSA the author worked in he didn’t answer that he was the author.

magicbastarder · 18-01-2019 7:02pm

not sure what this article is trying to be:

Cycling is a healthy pastime, sport and commuting option, but it demands awareness
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/fitness/cycling-is-a-healthy-pastime-sport-and-commuting-option-but-it-demands-awareness-1.3751466

Chiparus · 18-01-2019 9:54pm

mr spuckler wrote: »

I posted this on Twitter, but I've read many of the pieces written by "RSA Expert" for the Independent and the contrast in tone between ALL of the others & the cycling related one is incredible.
even when they talk about the killer behaviours they don't strike such an aggressive tone.

their language from the Project Edward related piece was just odd imo.

aside from the reliance on prayers to avoid road deaths, the rest of it reads as if it was written by a teenager.

Same style as the RSA expert, very short paragraphs , very odd.

eeeee · 18-01-2019 10:04pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

not sure what this article is trying to be:

Cycling is a healthy pastime, sport and commuting option, but it demands awareness
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/fitness/cycling-is-a-healthy-pastime-sport-and-commuting-option-but-it-demands-awareness-1.3751466

That is obscenely bad. Content aside, how did that pass an editor? Cheeses. How that standard of writing is acceptable is beyond me.

magicbastarder · 18-01-2019 10:41pm

the author of the sunday times piece has responded to my tweet to richard oakley about the identity of the author of the RSA piece:

https://twitter.com/AarRogan/status/1086373716215386112

amcalester · 18-01-2019 10:54pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

the author of the sunday times piece has responded to my tweet to richard oakley about the identity of the author of the RSA piece:

https://twitter.com/AarRogan/status/1086373716215386112

Email from the RSA today states

The article that was submitted for publication was written by Brian Farrell.

I originally asked if it was written by an RSA employee and was told it was written by the communications manager.

Now, they’re saying submitted for publication. I didn’t cop the difference until just now.

AndrewJRenko · 18-01-2019 11:17pm

Interesting to see that it was definitely sent to the CEO before publication

Muahahaha · 18-01-2019 11:18pm

This fiasco gets even worse with that screenshot of the email above. Now we know that the article was written by the "road expert" and then edited ( to remove "psycho lanes") before being approved by the Communications Manager. But the he sends the final draft to Moya Murdock and (judging by the amount of redaction) at least another eight members of RSA staff, presumably most who are senior management level, Liz O'Donnell included.

So the article was seen by the entire management structure within the RSA and not one of them found a fault with it. For me that is serious evidence of groupthink at work within the RSA when it comes to cyclist safety.

AndrewJRenko · 18-01-2019 11:30pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

This fiasco gets even worse with that screenshot of the email above. Now we know that the article was written by the "road expert" and then edited ( to remove "psycho lanes") before being approved by the Communications Manager. But the he sends the final draft to Moya Murdock and (judging by the amount of redaction) at least another eight members of RSA staff, presumably most who are senior management level, Liz O'Donnell included.

So the article was seen by the entire management structure within the RSA and not one of them found a fault with it. For me that is serious evidence of groupthink at work within the RSA when it comes to cyclist safety.

In general I agree with you, but I don't think this is a safe assumption. Liz is a non-executive director/chairperson. She's not 'management', she's not full-time. She chairs board meetings.

It is possible that they've arranged that she would see all content that goes externally (press materials, website content), but I wouldn't necessarily assume that.

Tell me how · 18-01-2019 11:32pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

In general I agree with you, but I don't think this is a safe assumption. Liz is a non-executive director/chairperson. She's not 'management', she's not full-time. She chairs board meetings.

It is possible that they've arranged that she would see all content that goes externally (press materials, website content), but I wouldn't necessarily assume that.

I think if they have a structure where senior management need to vet every published release or article they have bigger issues.

How could a media team headed by a communications manager not handle what should be advisory articles for all road users?

JMcL · 19-01-2019 9:48am

magicbastarder wrote: »

not sure what this article is trying to be:

Cycling is a healthy pastime, sport and commuting option, but it demands awareness
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/fitness/cycling-is-a-healthy-pastime-sport-and-commuting-option-but-it-demands-awareness-1.3751466

Do the RSA really spout all that guff qouted in that? I mean it's evident they're making a lot of it up as they go along, but "children under 12 shoukd never cycle in any sort of traffic" - not sure where it says that in the road traffic act that appears, but coupled with "never ride on the footpath" the RSA advice is therefore essentially for kids never to ride bikes? FFS

Chiparus · 19-01-2019 10:19am

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/anti-cyclist-writer-should-be-named-c057dh2nk

More today .

AndrewJRenko · 19-01-2019 10:44am

Tell me how wrote: »

I think if they have a structure where senior management need to vet every published release or article they have bigger issues.

How could a media team headed by a communications manager not handle what should be advisory articles for all road users?

It's not unusual in public bodies for all public communications to be vetted by the CEO. Personally I haven't seen a Chairperson being involved in this.

Journalism and cycling

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