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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Gun license application.

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  • 20-05-2019 11:04pm
    #1
    Willos78
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭


    Hi, I'm new to boards.
    I have a question regarding a gun license application.
    I applied 2 weeks ago for a .22 air rifle licence, in the past (9 years ago) I held licences for a .17hmr .22hornet and a .220 swift.
    But yesterday the fire arms officer rang looking for a Proof of Competence certificate!!! Surely after having had several guns I assumed I wouldn't need this.
    And as it says on the application form "if this is a first time application, please provide proof of your competence in the possession, use and carriage of firearms. (C)...
    If anybody can provide any information on this I'd much appreciated it, thanks in advance...


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    #2
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Can you provide copies of the old licenses? Is so do that and it'll stand as your competence. Hopefully.

    You may end doing a course, but there is another option instead of the licenses/course route. Letters of support from those who still shoot that you know. The letters need only be short and sweet and say they shot with you previously and found you to be safe and competent. This is the third of four ways to prove competence.
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    #3
    Willos78
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Willos78


    Cass wrote: »
    Can you provide copies of the old licenses? Is so do that and it'll stand as your competence. Hopefully.

    You may end doing a course, but there is another option instead of the licenses/course route. Letters of support from those who still shoot that you know. The letters need only be short and sweet and say they shot with you previously and found you to be safe and competent. This is the third of four ways to prove competence.

    Hi, thanks for the reply,
    yes the fire arms officer had copies of all my previous licenses. Hopefully this will satisfy the superintendent if not I guess I'll be coughing up for the coarse, even though I've had licences for over 13 years. I could have got letters from club members but the garda didn't suggest it and I didn't think of it either to be honest.


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    #4
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    No harm to get them if you can. The more you provide the better and quicker the application will go.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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    #5
    cookimonster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    I've seen lads with years of military service having to provide proof of compentcy via a 'safety cert' when applying for a gun licence even when known to be serving or retired by the local Gaurds.


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    #6
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    cookimonster wrote: »
    I've seen lads with years of military service having to provide proof of compentcy via a 'safety cert' when applying for a gun licence even when known to be serving or retired by the local Gaurds.

    It's the law. First time applicants have to prove competence, right?


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    #7
    Willos78
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Willos78


    tac foley wrote: »
    It's the law. First time applicants have to prove competence, right?

    Yes that's correct.. But like I said to the FAO this wasn't my first application or even my second or third...


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    #8
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    @Cookimonster - former members of the Armed Forces may not have ever had a firearms license before, right?

    Even here in UK, if a former military person wants to get into shooting, they still have to do the probationary period of at least three months in the gun club to which they wish to join before applying for an FAC.


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    #9
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    cookimonster wrote: »
    I've seen lads with years of military service having to provide proof of compentcy via a 'safety cert' when applying for a gun licence even when known to be serving or retired by the local Gaurds.
    The competence cert is the fall back, almost mandatory, form of proving competence. It's "lazy" on behalf of AGS.
    tac foley wrote: »
    It's the law. First time applicants have to prove competence, right?

    They do, but the competence cert is only one of four methods that can be used to provide proof of competence:
    1. Competence certificate
    2. Training license
    3. Letter of support from currently licensed person(s)
    4. Previous firearm experience
    As said above the competence cert is the "lazy" way as it's a cert, immediate, and requires no checking.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #10
    cookimonster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    Thats the joke 'previous experience' , ........

    Military service in Ireland, full time and providing you pass out, requires you to be complete Test of Elementary Training (TOET ) on 'assault rifles' and general purpose machine gun (GPMG) as well as an assortment of ordance, range practices and tactical training inculding Live Fire Tactical Training (LFTT).

    As I said before military weapons training is not always compatible with civilian firearms use weather it be in the field or on a range but they share the same basics in safe handling, use /maintenance and marksmanship principles.

    But either way its a hell of a lot better then 20 minutes, if that, in the back room of a RFDs shop.


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    #11
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,504 ✭✭✭tac foley


    cookimonster wrote: »
    Thats the joke 'previous experience' , ........

    Military service in Ireland, full time and providing you pass out, requires you to be complete Test of Elementary Training (TOET ) on 'assault rifles' and general purpose machine gun (GPMG) as well as an assortment of ordance, range practices and tactical training inculding Live Fire Tactical Training (LFTT).

    As I said before military weapons training is not always compatible with civilian firearms use weather it be in the field or on a range but they share the same basics in safe handling, use /maintenance and marksmanship principles.

    But either way its a hell of a lot better then 20 minutes, if that, in the back room of a RFDs shop.

    Just as with every other civilised nation's military. Before I got commissioned, I served in the ranks, and part of our promotion upgrading entailed drawing up a programme for the running of a range for ever-large groups of shooters with every weapon used by our particular part of the Army. And then running it - from real-time actual range-booking, publishing Pt 1 orders, allocation and transportation of ammunition and pyrotechnics to the allocation of sentries a wet-weather programme...

    And at Drill & Duties 1 level - from promotion from Sergeant to WO2 - the course involved not only running a small arms range, which we had all been doing from Corporal rank anyhow, but arranging and running a company-sized live-firing week of training, which we then went and carried out on a handy 'victim' infantry unit under advanced weapon training in preparation for something nasty.

    Being the British Army, there was always something nasty.

    True, nothing can really prepare you for some of the total dwongs you might encounter on a civilian range, but it sure do help.


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    #12
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Did you get any further with this?
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    #13
    Willos78
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Willos78


    Cass wrote: »
    Did you get any further with this?

    So after 11 weeks and several phone calls and still no sign of my license, I call again last Thursday to be told they (Gardai) have lost and have no record of my application!!!


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    #14
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Might be worthwhile reminding them of the new GDPR regulations. €250,000 fine and possible prison for each loss of personal data.

    That aside its unlikely they lost it. It is somewhere. Did you receive any correspondence from them during the process in the form of a letter, receipt, acknowledgement? Any of these would show they had it and were processing it at some point.

    Failing that you may make time and drop down to the FO and get this resolved (as if you don't already know this), but you'll get further doing it in person than on the phone.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #15
    Willos78
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Willos78


    Cass wrote: »
    Might be worthwhile reminding them of the new GDPR regulations. €250,000 fine and possible prison for each loss of personal data.

    That aside its unlikely they lost it. It is somewhere. Did you receive any correspondence from them during the process in the form of a letter, receipt, acknowledgement? Any of these would show they had it and were processing it at some point.

    Failing that you may make time and drop down to the FO and get this resolved (as if you don't already know this), but you'll get further doing it in person than on the phone.

    I went in on Friday, with proof of purchase fire arm serial number, had to fill out another application while their and was told the super was aware of what has happened and the duration and that I can expect my license in the next two weeks!!! But I'm not holding my breath.


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    #16
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I'm the first to say don't stand for anything like that and i still believe that to be the case. This is not some imagined sleight or mishap, it's your personal and very private data that is lost. Its fairly serious and a reason why GDPR was brought in and why companies face tens of millions if not billions for severe breaches in data protection.

    All that being said if you're getting your license, and happy that it'll be done quick then it's up to you to decide whether to pursue the loss of the original application or not.

    Keep me updated as to how you get on. Would be interested to know if they keep to their word.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #17
    Willos78
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Willos78


    Cass wrote: »
    I'm the first to say don't stand for anything like that and i still believe that to be the case. This is not some imagined sleight or mishap, it's your personal and very private data that is lost. Its fairly serious and a reason why GDPR was brought in and why companies face tens of millions if not billions for severe breaches in data protection.

    All that being said if you're getting your license, and happy that it'll be done quick then it's up to you to decide whether to pursue the loss of the original application or not.

    Keep me updated as to how you get on. Would be interested to know if they keep to their word.

    I will keep you informed.


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    #18
    Willos78
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Willos78


    Willos78 wrote: »
    I will keep you informed.

    I just realized I didn't reply,, 5 days later I received the license in the post...


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    #19
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    They never "found" your previous application?
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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    #20
    Willos78
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Willos78


    Cass wrote: »
    They never "found" your previous application?

    Hi Cass, it was never mentioned.. I applied for a .17hmr 4 weeks ago this Friday, I was hoping it would be a quick process this time round...


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    #21
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Bitter pill to have to swallow but make sure you photocopy your applications from now on. I do it for mine. I keep a scanned copy of them on my computer and since i told aGS this i've never had a "lost" application.

    hope you are not left waiting too much longer and glad you got sorted on the previous one.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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    #22
    feartuath
    Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭feartuath


    All my renuals went missing last year.
    My expiry date passed and nothing in the post.
    FO was very apologetic and told me I'd be ok.
    I actually forget how long the process took but they arrived eventually.


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    #23
    CorkCBR6
    Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭CorkCBR6


    cookimonster wrote: »
    Thats the joke 'previous experience' , ........

    Military service in Ireland, full time and providing you pass out, requires you to be complete Test of Elementary Training (TOET ) on 'assault rifles' and general purpose machine gun (GPMG) as well as an assortment of ordance, range practices and tactical training inculding Live Fire Tactical Training (LFTT).

    Exact same as the Reserves too..
    Also did TOETs on the USP.

    A buddy's competence was giving €20 to the local Gun Shop and them showing him how to remove a bolt on a rifle.. he was applying for a 10/22.


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    #24
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Cass wrote: »
    Might be worthwhile reminding them of the new GDPR regulations. €250,000 fine and possible prison for each loss of personal data.

    That aside its unlikely they lost it. It is somewhere.

    I'm a bit late replying to this but this shows up a very big flaw in the licencing application system. It's hard to prove a breach of GDPR regulations when you have no proof that you handed in the application form in the first place.

    It would be no harm if the FCP/shooting bodies could engage with the powers that be and see if a receipt can be given by the Gardai for receipt of the application form.

    That'd seriously reduce the amount of missing forms.


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    #25
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The "funny" part of this is the receipt letter we receive to tell us the application is received and a decision will be communicated to us within 3 months is meant to be the receipt and our proof of submission.

    The problem is this letter is:
    1. Never sent out
    2. Sent out week(s) before the grant
    3. Sent out after the grant
    ...... but in all cases only when the details are entered onto PULSE which only happens when the FO has processed the application and lodged it into PULSE to be signed off by the Super.

    I've a hit and miss history with getting receipts from the front desk when i submit an application/renewal and i always get the receipt letter that eventually comes however most times this falls into category 2 above meaning it can be weeks, even months, from when i submit my application to when i receive the receipt.

    You are right though. It needs to be addressed, but i'd propose that the receipt is issued at the desk at time of submission, however that won't happen as it'll show up the true processing times of applications instead of the stated times given.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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    #26
    freddieot
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭freddieot


    I had a problem with my application forms a few years back getting mislaid, more bad process than anything else to be fair, so I started sending them in Registered Envelopes.

    Most stations would get Registered mail on a regular basis so it does not freak them out as much as bringing in your application and asking for a written receipt from the unfortunate on the desk.

    Signature from An Post which is available from online shows clearly the date of receipt in the /station and the Garda name.

    Stopped doing it years later when the local station became more efficient.

    Also, personally I have never ever received any confirmation letter that they are supposed to send (within X days etc.) when they get the application form. That said, the local lads are very good and I normally get the cert long before there is any issue.


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    #27
    J.R.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭J.R.


    Cass wrote: »
    You are right though. It needs to be addressed, but i'd propose that the receipt is issued at the desk at time of submission.

    If the last page of the licence had a page entitled RECEIPT whereby the Garda accepting the application would have to sign, date and stamp it, tear it off and give it to the applicant. This would be a simple way to provide receipts.


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    #28
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Any joy, OP?
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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