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3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

12467…86

Comments

  • #152
    pilatus
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭pilatus


    Nope terrible deal, 30ish year old ships , which were actually sold for $240 million which covers an overhaul and installation of some modern electronics. The ships will be good for a decade and that point will need expensive overhauls to keep them in service. Its irrelevant anyway because the ships of the Chinese navy will outclass these ships in terms of weaponry , electronics and stealth features in a few year's.Some Chinese warships already outclass the Perrys as it is and their yards are churning out multiple unit's every year.


  • #153
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    They are a bit toothless without the Standard Missile. They look a bit silly now with a 25mm as main armament, and 76mm on the roof as secondary....


  • #154
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,989 ✭✭✭sparky42


    goldie fish wrote: »
    They are a bit toothless without the Standard Missile. They look a bit silly now with a 25mm as main armament, and 76mm on the roof as secondary....

    Well if you are going for crazy navies, you could ask for the funding for the upgrade programme that the Australians undertook for 4 of them to fit them with an 8 cell MK 41, it "only" cost a billion Aus dollars.:rolleyes:

    The Perry's have seen hard service and would need what at least 160 crew per ship.


  • #155
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Slightly of topic but related question.

    Can anyone tell me about the area the Irish Navy actually patrols? I found the below map on marine.ie but I'm not sure if the Navel Service patrols all of it or just some of it? Do we regularly patrol out as far the Edoras Bank or even further to the Maury Channel? Do we stay in between the red lines or do we go into international waters.

    http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/5960CD91-B5D9-4788-B57E-247634A3013A/0/TheRealMapofIreland_Nov09.pdf

    I remember reading something about the waves getting bigger and rougher in the north Atlantic (from weather buoy data) and that was part of the reason bigger ships were required as they would improve Ocean going.

    I've only done a bit of reading around the area, but i believe that Ireland has only recently laid and been successful in its claim to much of this area. Is an 8 ship Navel Service capable of paroling what looks to be such a huge area?


  • #156
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Is an 8 ship Navel Service capable of paroling what looks to be such a huge area?
    Short answer: No.
    Long answer: 8 is the bare minimum considered to patrol our territorial waters prior to us laying a claim for the extra areas over the Rockall basin. The NS has committed to having 5 ships at sea at all times. 12 has been considered an ideal amount for a nation of our size, by naval experts. The waves are not getting smaller either so a 90m hull is currently the most suitable for patrolling in these no longer freak-wave waters. However there are other tasks that the NS should also be spending more time doing, and this includes patrolling well outside our own waters(Heading to Canadian coastlines for an internationally agreed fishery protection tasking), and for this 120m is considered optimal. Then, when you have a 120m ship that is designed for maritime patrol, you end up with lots of spare space. The NS want to use this extra space for TEU storage(at least 6)that could carry towed array sonars, submersibles, or any range of modular military options, in addition to the obvious task of bringing stores to overseas troops.


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  • #157
    roadmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 3,847 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    What would the chances of the navy ever getting up to 12 ships be or will that just never happen due to the cost etc?


  • #158
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,989 ✭✭✭sparky42


    roadmaster wrote: »
    What would the chances of the navy ever getting up to 12 ships be or will that just never happen due to the cost etc?

    I'd guess it wold depend on what hulls are bought, the P 60s are going to be what about 55 million, so about 500 million for the ships and extra for the increased crew numbers and support requirements.


  • #159
    pilatus
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭pilatus


    goldie fish wrote: »
    They are a bit toothless without the Standard Missile. They look a bit silly now with a 25mm as main armament, and 76mm on the roof as secondary....

    The ROC have stores of standard missile 1MR's that are used on the Cheng Kung class frigates, which they will use on their newly acquired Perry's. I recall reading recently that Taiwan and Egypt have already agreed in principal to buy the US navies stock of SM missiles as their own Perry's are stood down .


  • #160
    pilatus
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭pilatus


    sparky42 wrote: »
    I'd guess it wold depend on what hulls are bought, the P 60s are going to be what about 55 million, so about 500 million for the ships and extra for the increased crew numbers and support requirements.

    Unlikely to ever happen. This is Ireland at the end of the day, what service is properly equipped and funded ? Not many . The only way I could see it happening is if the white paper on defense recognises that an expanded navy is of more use to the country than the army at its current strength and accordingly diverts funding from one branch to another and that future recruitment would follow suite . I would be for this idea but it will never happen .


  • #161
    sparky42
    Registered Users Posts: 3,989 ✭✭✭sparky42


    pilatus wrote: »
    The ROC have stores of standard missile 1MR's that are used on the Cheng Kung class frigates, which they will use on their newly acquired Perry's. I recall reading recently that Taiwan and Egypt have already agreed in principal to buy the US navies stock of SM missiles as their own Perry's are stood down .

    That's why the USN Perry's have gone without missiles, they sold the US stocks to their international clients once they decided that the Perry's were heading towards end of life. That variant of the standard isn't made anymore is it?


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  • #162
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    pilatus wrote: »
    Unlikely to ever happen. This is Ireland at the end of the day, what service is properly equipped and funded ? Not many . The only way I could see it happening is if the white paper on defense recognises that an expanded navy is of more use to the country than the army at its current strength and accordingly diverts funding from one branch to another and that future recruitment would follow suite . I would be for this idea but it will never happen .


    If the oil ever starts coming ashore that may have to change dramatically. In that event funding would suddenly become available.


  • #163
    pilatus
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭pilatus


    My understanding was that the contracts for extracting the oil was going to multinational's and that the Irish government was to receive a small percentage?


  • #164
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    pilatus wrote: »
    My understanding was that the contracts for extracting the oil was going to multinational's and that the Irish government was to receive a small percentage?

    Hmm.
    Nobody has started extracting anything yet. Don't believe everything the shell to sea loopers tell you.

    Fact is, no matter who gets the oil out, a serious naval presence will be required in the area. If we aren't up to the task, then someone else will have to do it.


  • #165
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭BowWow


    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ahoy-star-wars-ships-buoy-up-navy-29324232.html


  • #166
    source
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,287 ✭✭✭source


    BowWow wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ahoy-star-wars-ships-buoy-up-navy-29324232.html

    They do realise there is a big difference between droids and drones right?


  • #167
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,932 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    source wrote: »
    They do realise there is a big difference between droids and drones right?

    Haha....+1
    These aren't the droids....I mean drones you are looking for!
    The depths the independent has sunk to quality wise never ceases to amaze me....


  • #168
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    BowWow wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ahoy-star-wars-ships-buoy-up-navy-29324232.html


    Article summary: Here's some news from 2008. I didn't understand the big words in the press release back then, but my journalists big book of shiny things just arrived in the post and now I know what a UAV is.
    Here's the first UAV google threw up.


  • #169
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    I've heard a scurrilous rumour that the new ships will break with tradition and be named after Irish literary figures. Two appalling examples were mentioned to me. Hope that's just a wind-up?

    On another subject, the Norwegians have just signed the contract for a new fleet support ship at a cost of €155 million or so.

    fartoy.jpg


  • #170
    Alkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭Alkers


    The 1st one is the LE Samuel Beckett iirc, I don't think the 2nd one is definite yet.


  • #171
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    It isn't a wind up.

    Nice Norwegian by the way. Seems to follow the German Support ship design. All your stores in one hull. Not a bad price either.

    Hmmm...


    sends urgent email to FOCNS with idea for EPV alternative


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  • #172
    aindriu80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,968 ✭✭✭aindriu80


    books and ships ? I'm not sure about that one but I guess it grows on you.


  • #173
    zone 1
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭zone 1


    first of all we dont need support ship, 99 percent of there work is done in home waters so no need for refueling taking food stuff onboard, onless they are looking at 3 to 6 mth trips to support other navys maybe. the irish navy has done trips for 3 to 4 mths away from home waters and have had no need for supply vessels. it wont happen till some one in the higher places think o wait we have navy..


  • #174
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    RAS trials are already under way with ILV Granuaile. It's the old saying, a ship doesn't make money in port.


  • #175
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    zone 1 wrote: »
    first of all we dont need support ship, 99 percent of there work is done in home waters so no need for refueling taking food stuff onboard, onless they are looking at 3 to 6 mth trips to support other navys maybe. the irish navy has done trips for 3 to 4 mths away from home waters and have had no need for supply vessels. it wont happen till some one in the higher places think o wait we have navy..

    Anti Piracy Patrols, Indian Ocean....

    You may say there is already enough replen ships there, but what is stopping us from being the RAS ship?
    RN experience in the carribean has shown that ships of this type are fine for the routine patrol duties too. Their hydrographic research ship has managed to capture a few drugs smugglers too. The Price mentioned is not dissimilar to what was being suggested for a proposed EPV.


  • #176
    zone 1
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭zone 1


    you have point goldie, i think it should happen two, but as a country the military some people would look at this as waist of tax payer money, i for one am all for it should have been done when there was ment to be money in the counrty, but now i cant see this happening, P31 should have never lost her HELLO , one step forward and two steps back, that ship should be down there today maybe doing anti piracy. will EPV happen not in the nxt 10 year


  • #177
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    goldie fish wrote: »
    If the oil ever starts coming ashore that may have to change dramatically. In that event funding would suddenly become available.


    What difference will oil production off the south or south west coast make... I can't see many pirates making off with a rig or tanker, where would they go??
    If it was for security you'd probably need 1 ship on duty per production platform .... Even with 30 or so ships I doubt you could do it..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #178
    él statutorio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭él statutorio


    Markcheese wrote: »
    What difference will oil production off the south or south west coast make... I can't see many pirates making off with a rig or tanker, where would they go??
    If it was for security you'd probably need 1 ship on duty per production platform .... Even with 30 or so ships I doubt you could do it..

    That's not the danger, the danger would be that a person or persons might try and fire an RPG or something similar into a tanker and cause an environmental disaster.


  • #179
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    I would love to see a list of possible contenders from the contributors here for an EPV, even though it might be years before any decision might be made.

    I dont pretend to be an expert in this area, or even slightly knowledgeable for that matter, but i would love to see something like the Danish Absalon class, though of course without most of its Armament which we simply do not need.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMS_Absalon_%28L16%29


  • #180
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    él statutorio wrote: »
    That's not the danger, the danger would be that a person or persons might try and fire an RPG or something similar into a tanker and cause an environmental disaster.

    Ah here, now we're back to needing a OPV to cover these needs
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83498374&postcount=101


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  • #181
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    If I wanted to, I could row a boat alongside oil tankers at Whitegate ,( very close to the naval base at hawlboline ) , there are ships carrying refined fuel and crude oil .... Now I don't have an rpg or a reason to use one... But if I did ....

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #182
    Whatnuclearsub
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭Whatnuclearsub


    The P stands for patrol boat, the Irish Navy don't actually own any ships, and it doesn't look like they ever will!


  • #183
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Oh, all the genius club are out tonight.


  • #184
    zone 1
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭zone 1


    Whatnuclearsub wrote: »
    The P stands for patrol boat, the Irish Navy don't actually own any ships, and it doesn't look like they ever will!

    jesus


  • #185
    Whatnuclearsub
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭Whatnuclearsub


    goldie fish wrote: »
    Oh, all the genius club are out tonight.
    zone 1 wrote: »
    jesus

    It is a fact, wikipedia patrol boat, they even list the Irish Navy vessels in it, But Im just teasing you navy guys, sure we can call them ships!


  • #186
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    Whatnuclearsub wrote: »
    It is a fact, wikipedia patrol boat, they even list the Irish Navy vessels in it, But Im just teasing you navy guys, sure we can call them ships!

    And why can't a patrol boat be a small ship?


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  • #187
    Whatnuclearsub
    Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭Whatnuclearsub


    It can be, I apologise if I offended anybody.


  • #188
    Morpheus
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Morpheus


    [MOD]Firstly, welcome to the military forum WhatNuclearSub. Your input is very welcome. Secondly, I'm sure you have, but if you haven't, then please read the "Military" charter. To everyone here, try to keep the thread on topic. If anyone wishes to discuss acronyms or naval naming conventions, feel free to start a new thread. [/MOD]


  • #189
    BowWow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,777 ✭✭✭BowWow


    http://www.thejournal.ie/naval-service-vessels-names-987087-Jul2013/


  • #190
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    I don't know how to feel about that..

    I mean I like the idea of naming it after famous Irish people but for the love of god, why 2 writers?? You'd think all we ever did in this country was write.


  • #191
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    It''l be fun to see James Joyce, Samuel Beckett, Jonathan Swift and Ulysses all meeting up in Dublin port...


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  • #192
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,840 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    It''l be fun to see James Joyce, Samuel Beckett, Jonathan Swift and Ulysses all meeting up in Dublin port...

    add in one or 2 of the cunard queens and there'd be a right old shindig!!


  • #193
    davetherave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,438 ✭✭✭davetherave


    Ugh.. why break from tradition and the female mythology names?
    Even if you don't want to reuse names of vessels there are plenty more.


    Sadhbh - Oisin's Mammy/ Fionn Macs wife.
    Aibell/Aoibheall - The Guardian of Brian Borus tribe.
    Bodhmall - Fionn Mac's babysitter/foster mother
    Bláthnat/Bláthíne - Cú Chulainn bit on the side.
    Silé - There has already been a Grainne so it only seems fair to have a Silé :D


  • #194
    Alkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭Alkers


    From the article:
    The LÉ Aoife and Emer were both recently decommissioned, and Minister for Defence Alan Shatter TD announced yesterday that a decision has been made on the names of the two new ships.

    Then Later
    The LÉ Emer and LÉ Aoife will be decommissioned in September 2013 and September 2014 respectively, and Doyle said that the Department of Defence has recently brought in people to assist them with the sale of the two ships.


  • #195
    amurph0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 638 ✭✭✭amurph0


    davetherave wrote: »
    Ugh.. why break from tradition and the female mythology names?
    Even if you don't want to reuse names of vessels there are plenty more.


    Sadhbh - Oisin's Mammy/ Fionn Macs wife.
    Aibell/Aoibheall - The Guardian of Brian Borus tribe.
    Bodhmall - Fionn Mac's babysitter/foster mother
    Bláthnat/Bláthíne - Cú Chulainn bit on the side.
    Silé - There has already been a Grainne so it only seems fair to have a Silé :D

    I'd like to hear someone from a foriegn ship try and pronounce those names, they have enough trouble trying to pronounce Eithne.

    The LÉ Sad-hib, Able, Bod-mall, Blat-nat and Silly.


  • #196
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    amurph0 wrote: »
    I'd like to hear someone from a foriegn ship try and pronounce those names, they have enough trouble trying to pronounce Eithne.

    The LÉ Sad-hib, Able, Bod-mall, Blat-nat and Silly.


    Currently when our Naval vessels are being called by their name over VHF they are called the following.

    Emer=ehm-err
    Aoife=oafie
    Aisling=ailing
    Eithne=ethen
    Orla=Orla(surprisingly)
    Ciara=seeiyara
    Roisin=rosin/raisin
    Niamh= Nyam-ha.

    I jest not.

    While you may not agree with the change of (short) tradition, the fact is the writers are identifiable as of Ireland.

    As a naval vessel is in effect a floating piece of sovereign Irish soil, having a name that is easily identifiable with Irish culture is an advantage.

    Google any of the current names and the results are ambiguous at best, indeed some will bring you to certain "glamour" sites.
    Google Samuel Beckett and James Joyce and the connection with Ireland is immediate.


  • #197
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,355 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Naming the two new OPVs after writers is a mistake IMO. The two scribes in question may have had a major issue with military ships being named after them. Also there are enough landmarks and festivals etc bearing the name of great literary figures.

    There are many naming schemes they could have gone with, that would at least have a semblance of connection with the Sea / Navy / Defence Forces / Republic

    Names of patriots or leaders of the Rebellion. I know they are well represented as train stations and barracks but theres plenty to go around - The 'Parnell', The 'Pearse', The 'Clarke', The 'O'Connell' (The O'Driscoll ;) )

    Names of well known historical coastal towns or ports - The 'Waterford', The 'Foynes', The 'Killary'

    Landmark islands - The 'Lambay' , The 'Skellig', The 'Achill'

    Or just revert to the ancient warriors and Kings, 'Fergus', 'Cormac' 'Setanta' 'Lir' 'Fionn' 'Oisín'.....


  • #198
    Maoltuile
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    amurph0 wrote: »
    I'd like to hear someone from a foriegn ship try and pronounce those names, they have enough trouble trying to pronounce Eithne.

    The LÉ Sad-hib, Able, Bod-mall, Blat-nat and Silly.

    I'm certain that we have the impeccable Spanish, French, Russian etc. pronunciation of other navies' ships names, of course.

    Seriously, that's the best argument that the anti-Irish language mob (including the Minister, presumably, given his track record) can come up with?


  • #199
    amurph0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 638 ✭✭✭amurph0


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    I'm certain that we have the impeccable Spanish, French, Russian etc. pronunciation of other navies' ships names, of course.

    Seriously, that's the best argument that the anti-Irish language mob (including the Minister, presumably, given his track record) can come up with?

    Who's arguing? I just think it's funny the way the ships names are pronounced. I don't really care what we call the new ships, as long as we have them.

    And i was mainly referring to the way other English speaking ships would pronounce them, namely Canadian/British/American. When I wrote those I wrote them with an American accent in my head.


  • #200
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    I worked for a company that had a ship called 'Excelsior'. Going into Japan once, the port control called them up; "Ess, Esse, Isel, ah, big ship, big ship this is port control radio..." Name your ship after your mother tongue and let the other guy worry about his pronunciation.


  • #201
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tabnabs wrote: »
    Name your ship after your mother tongue and let the other guy worry about his pronunciation.

    Couldn't resist.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gh5xu35bAxA


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