3 New Navy Vessels for Irish Naval Service

pilatus

Nope terrible deal, 30ish year old ships , which were actually sold for $240 million which covers an overhaul and installation of some modern electronics. The ships will be good for a decade and that point will need expensive overhauls to keep them in service. Its irrelevant anyway because the ships of the Chinese navy will outclass these ships in terms of weaponry , electronics and stealth features in a few year's.Some Chinese warships already outclass the Perrys as it is and their yards are churning out multiple unit's every year.

goldie fish

They are a bit toothless without the Standard Missile. They look a bit silly now with a 25mm as main armament, and 76mm on the roof as secondary....

sparky42

goldie fish wrote: »

They are a bit toothless without the Standard Missile. They look a bit silly now with a 25mm as main armament, and 76mm on the roof as secondary....

Well if you are going for crazy navies, you could ask for the funding for the upgrade programme that the Australians undertook for 4 of them to fit them with an 8 cell MK 41, it "only" cost a billion Aus dollars.:rolleyes:

The Perry's have seen hard service and would need what at least 160 crew per ship.

nowecant

Slightly of topic but related question.

Can anyone tell me about the area the Irish Navy actually patrols? I found the below map on marine.ie but I'm not sure if the Navel Service patrols all of it or just some of it? Do we regularly patrol out as far the Edoras Bank or even further to the Maury Channel? Do we stay in between the red lines or do we go into international waters.

http://www.marine.ie/NR/rdonlyres/5960CD91-B5D9-4788-B57E-247634A3013A/0/TheRealMapofIreland_Nov09.pdf

I remember reading something about the waves getting bigger and rougher in the north Atlantic (from weather buoy data) and that was part of the reason bigger ships were required as they would improve Ocean going.

I've only done a bit of reading around the area, but i believe that Ireland has only recently laid and been successful in its claim to much of this area. Is an 8 ship Navel Service capable of paroling what looks to be such a huge area?

goldie fish

Is an 8 ship Navel Service capable of paroling what looks to be such a huge area?

Short answer: No.
Long answer: 8 is the bare minimum considered to patrol our territorial waters prior to us laying a claim for the extra areas over the Rockall basin. The NS has committed to having 5 ships at sea at all times. 12 has been considered an ideal amount for a nation of our size, by naval experts. The waves are not getting smaller either so a 90m hull is currently the most suitable for patrolling in these no longer freak-wave waters. However there are other tasks that the NS should also be spending more time doing, and this includes patrolling well outside our own waters(Heading to Canadian coastlines for an internationally agreed fishery protection tasking), and for this 120m is considered optimal. Then, when you have a 120m ship that is designed for maritime patrol, you end up with lots of spare space. The NS want to use this extra space for TEU storage(at least 6)that could carry towed array sonars, submersibles, or any range of modular military options, in addition to the obvious task of bringing stores to overseas troops.

roadmaster

What would the chances of the navy ever getting up to 12 ships be or will that just never happen due to the cost etc?

sparky42

roadmaster wrote: »

What would the chances of the navy ever getting up to 12 ships be or will that just never happen due to the cost etc?

I'd guess it wold depend on what hulls are bought, the P 60s are going to be what about 55 million, so about 500 million for the ships and extra for the increased crew numbers and support requirements.

pilatus

goldie fish wrote: »

They are a bit toothless without the Standard Missile. They look a bit silly now with a 25mm as main armament, and 76mm on the roof as secondary....

The ROC have stores of standard missile 1MR's that are used on the Cheng Kung class frigates, which they will use on their newly acquired Perry's. I recall reading recently that Taiwan and Egypt have already agreed in principal to buy the US navies stock of SM missiles as their own Perry's are stood down .

pilatus

sparky42 wrote: »

I'd guess it wold depend on what hulls are bought, the P 60s are going to be what about 55 million, so about 500 million for the ships and extra for the increased crew numbers and support requirements.

Unlikely to ever happen. This is Ireland at the end of the day, what service is properly equipped and funded ? Not many . The only way I could see it happening is if the white paper on defense recognises that an expanded navy is of more use to the country than the army at its current strength and accordingly diverts funding from one branch to another and that future recruitment would follow suite . I would be for this idea but it will never happen .

sparky42

pilatus wrote: »

The ROC have stores of standard missile 1MR's that are used on the Cheng Kung class frigates, which they will use on their newly acquired Perry's. I recall reading recently that Taiwan and Egypt have already agreed in principal to buy the US navies stock of SM missiles as their own Perry's are stood down .

That's why the USN Perry's have gone without missiles, they sold the US stocks to their international clients once they decided that the Perry's were heading towards end of life. That variant of the standard isn't made anymore is it?

goldie fish

pilatus wrote: »

Unlikely to ever happen. This is Ireland at the end of the day, what service is properly equipped and funded ? Not many . The only way I could see it happening is if the white paper on defense recognises that an expanded navy is of more use to the country than the army at its current strength and accordingly diverts funding from one branch to another and that future recruitment would follow suite . I would be for this idea but it will never happen .

If the oil ever starts coming ashore that may have to change dramatically. In that event funding would suddenly become available.

pilatus

My understanding was that the contracts for extracting the oil was going to multinational's and that the Irish government was to receive a small percentage?

goldie fish

pilatus wrote: »

My understanding was that the contracts for extracting the oil was going to multinational's and that the Irish government was to receive a small percentage?

Hmm.
Nobody has started extracting anything yet. Don't believe everything the shell to sea loopers tell you.

Fact is, no matter who gets the oil out, a serious naval presence will be required in the area. If we aren't up to the task, then someone else will have to do it.

BowWow

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ahoy-star-wars-ships-buoy-up-navy-29324232.html

source

BowWow wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ahoy-star-wars-ships-buoy-up-navy-29324232.html

They do realise there is a big difference between droids and drones right?

banie01

source wrote: »

They do realise there is a big difference between droids and drones right?

Haha....+1
These aren't the droids....I mean drones you are looking for!
The depths the independent has sunk to quality wise never ceases to amaze me....

goldie fish

BowWow wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/ahoy-star-wars-ships-buoy-up-navy-29324232.html

Article summary: Here's some news from 2008. I didn't understand the big words in the press release back then, but my journalists big book of shiny things just arrived in the post and now I know what a UAV is.
Here's the first UAV google threw up.

Tabnabs

I've heard a scurrilous rumour that the new ships will break with tradition and be named after Irish literary figures. Two appalling examples were mentioned to me. Hope that's just a wind-up?

On another subject, the Norwegians have just signed the contract for a new fleet support ship at a cost of €155 million or so.

Alkers

The 1st one is the LE Samuel Beckett iirc, I don't think the 2nd one is definite yet.

goldie fish

It isn't a wind up.

Nice Norwegian by the way. Seems to follow the German Support ship design. All your stores in one hull. Not a bad price either.

Hmmm...


sends urgent email to FOCNS with idea for EPV alternative

aindriu80

books and ships ? I'm not sure about that one but I guess it grows on you.

zone 1

first of all we dont need support ship, 99 percent of there work is done in home waters so no need for refueling taking food stuff onboard, onless they are looking at 3 to 6 mth trips to support other navys maybe. the irish navy has done trips for 3 to 4 mths away from home waters and have had no need for supply vessels. it wont happen till some one in the higher places think o wait we have navy..

Tabnabs

RAS trials are already under way with ILV Granuaile. It's the old saying, a ship doesn't make money in port.

goldie fish

zone 1 wrote: »

first of all we dont need support ship, 99 percent of there work is done in home waters so no need for refueling taking food stuff onboard, onless they are looking at 3 to 6 mth trips to support other navys maybe. the irish navy has done trips for 3 to 4 mths away from home waters and have had no need for supply vessels. it wont happen till some one in the higher places think o wait we have navy..

Anti Piracy Patrols, Indian Ocean....

You may say there is already enough replen ships there, but what is stopping us from being the RAS ship?
RN experience in the carribean has shown that ships of this type are fine for the routine patrol duties too. Their hydrographic research ship has managed to capture a few drugs smugglers too. The Price mentioned is not dissimilar to what was being suggested for a proposed EPV.

zone 1

you have point goldie, i think it should happen two, but as a country the military some people would look at this as waist of tax payer money, i for one am all for it should have been done when there was ment to be money in the counrty, but now i cant see this happening, P31 should have never lost her HELLO , one step forward and two steps back, that ship should be down there today maybe doing anti piracy. will EPV happen not in the nxt 10 year

Markcheese

goldie fish wrote: »

If the oil ever starts coming ashore that may have to change dramatically. In that event funding would suddenly become available.

What difference will oil production off the south or south west coast make... I can't see many pirates making off with a rig or tanker, where would they go??
If it was for security you'd probably need 1 ship on duty per production platform .... Even with 30 or so ships I doubt you could do it..

él statutorio

Markcheese wrote: »

What difference will oil production off the south or south west coast make... I can't see many pirates making off with a rig or tanker, where would they go??
If it was for security you'd probably need 1 ship on duty per production platform .... Even with 30 or so ships I doubt you could do it..

That's not the danger, the danger would be that a person or persons might try and fire an RPG or something similar into a tanker and cause an environmental disaster.

nowecant

I would love to see a list of possible contenders from the contributors here for an EPV, even though it might be years before any decision might be made.

I dont pretend to be an expert in this area, or even slightly knowledgeable for that matter, but i would love to see something like the Danish Absalon class, though of course without most of its Armament which we simply do not need.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMS_Absalon_%28L16%29

Tabnabs

él statutorio wrote: »

That's not the danger, the danger would be that a person or persons might try and fire an RPG or something similar into a tanker and cause an environmental disaster.

Ah here, now we're back to needing a OPV to cover these needs
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=83498374&postcount=101

Markcheese

If I wanted to, I could row a boat alongside oil tankers at Whitegate ,( very close to the naval base at hawlboline ) , there are ships carrying refined fuel and crude oil .... Now I don't have an rpg or a reason to use one... But if I did ....