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Belarus forces Ryanair plane to divert *NO GENERAL POLITICS* *MOD WARNING POST 1*

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    #92
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,853 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Polar101 wrote: »
    "Nearest airport Minsk"

    Trying not to make any Ryanair airport jokes, but that's a really weak statement. I think they need to comment whether all passengers made it to Vilnius, or if they feel it's all right that their planes get diverted and some passengers are removed.

    I’d imagine before that statement was made, Ryanair would have been in contact with The Department For Foreign Affairs.... who I’d imagine would have instructed Ryanair to keep it simple, informative and non emotive..


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    #93
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,733 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    If I was the pilot I would have kept going, he was seconds from border.


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    #94
    harmless
    Registered Users Posts: 965 ✭✭✭harmless


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    If I was the pilot I would have kept going, he was seconds from border.
    So you're the pilot and you have been given info that there is possibly a bomb on board and the hijackers have demanded you route to Minsk or it will go off.

    You keep going for the border and risk everyone onboard?


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    #95
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    If I was the pilot I would have kept going, he was seconds from border.

    According to sources in Russia (take with a pinch of salt) the Commander did exactly this before a MiG-29 appeared to intercept just prior to border crossing. The Altitude at 39,000ft was maintained much longer than usual this stood out to me, the aircraft should have been well into its descent prior to the point of interception where it turns right for Minsk. The fact VNO was the nearest airport, makes the story more plausible to me and I can categorically believe the Commander must have queried why after being informed of possible IED on-board that the safest direction was to prolong flight time by diverting to Minsk.

    https://www.dw.com/ru/ryanair-zajavil-o-trebovanie-belarusi-posadit-samolet-v-minske/a-57637295


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    #96
    bb12
    Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭bb12


    this is a truly shocking story to me. how can it be tolerated?

    surely there will have to be severe consequences or else any nation will be able to force land commercial flights from here on in.

    the world seems to be truly regressing these days.


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    #97
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,813 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I think this act will be Lukashenko's breakway Super League moment.

    I think he has roused something of a sleeping giant and that he will lose control of events and go the way of Viktor Yanukovych quite soon.

    He was ousted by real world physical actions and consequences, something the west no longer does, it relies on 'diplomacy', which means talking tough to the western media and doing nothing of consequence in reality.


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    #98
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Nijmegen wrote: »

    The EU response so far has been tepid, some words like “concerned” thrown around. We’ll see if there’s actually a real consequence to follow.

    "The outrageous and illegal behaviour of the regime in Belarus will have consequences"

    Thats a lot more than words like "concerned".


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    #99
    Irish Steve
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    It's probably appropriate to mention at this point that the procedures to be followed when an interception by (possibly) armed aircraft occurs are very clearly laid down in ICAO documentation, and to avoid any possibility of confusion, especially when communication may not occur in English, there is NO wriggle room for how the intercepting aircraft and the intercepted aircraft are to operate, communicate non verbally, and respond, regardless of any communication that may be received via radio.

    There are a number of variations in circulation already about what happened, when, why, and how many people left the aircraft in Minsk, and who left voluntarily, or otherwise, and until the relevant meetings between high level people on both sides have taken place, it's not going to be clear exactly what has happened.

    It certainly raises a lot of questions about the legality of the actions taken, and I will be very surprised if there is no response from a number of organisations, both in Ireland and over a wider area, and across a number of high profile organisations.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



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    #100
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    The organisations are already making statements Steve.


    The International Civil Aviation Organization which is a UN Agency said the incident may have contravened the Chicago Convention. A separate 1971 Montreal treaty of which Belarus subsequently became a member, also outlaws the seizure of aircraft and various offences including knowingly communicating false information in a way that endangers aircraft safety.


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    #101
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,853 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    From my own research there are airlines from 4 EU countries who provide scheduled flights in and out of Minsk airport.... I wonder if Austrian Airlines, LOT, Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa will pull out of flights to Belarus ?


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    #102
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,842 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Strumms wrote: »
    From my own research there are airlines from 4 EU countries who provide scheduled flights in and out of Minsk airport.... I wonder if Austrian Airlines, LOT, Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa will pull out of flights to Belarus ?

    All bar Turkish will, I expect.


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    #103
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,662 ✭✭✭✭josip


    harmless wrote: »
    So you're the pilot and you have been given info that there is possibly a bomb on board and the hijackers have demanded you route to Minsk or it will go off.

    You keep going for the border and risk everyone onboard?


    Were there hijackers mentioned in any of the reports?
    Or are you referring to the hijackers in the MiG?


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    #104
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,733 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    harmless wrote: »
    So you're the pilot and you have been given info that there is possibly a bomb on board and the hijackers have demanded you route to Minsk or it will go off.

    You keep going for the border and risk everyone onboard?


    So if they didn't turn they would have shot it down, and stuck to the bomb story?


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    #105
    zom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭zom


    PommieBast wrote: »
    There seems to be similarities with the Evo Morales grounding when the US was after Edward Snowden.
    Its not hijacking when WE do it?


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    #106
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,317 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    "The outrageous and illegal behaviour of the regime in Belarus will have consequences"

    Thats a lot more than words like "concerned".

    They did nothing about Israel committing war crimes snd genocide. They’ll do nothing here


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    #107
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    MOL will be on Newstalk breakfast tomorrow AM with Simon Coveney.


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    #108
    ZX7R
    Registered Users Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭ZX7R


    More info on rte website seemingly a kgb officers initiated a fight with Ryanair crew insisting there was an IED bomb on board


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    #109
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,317 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    If I was the pilot I would have kept going, he was seconds from border.

    Hindsight is great.


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    #110
    Jack1985
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Jack1985


    Some video emerges after arrival in Minsk, this screams BORAT vibes to me. The Great state of Belarus deals with its free press. :o

    https://twitter.com/BFreeTheatre/status/1396567115038068738?s=20


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    #111
    crushproof
    Registered Users Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭crushproof


    In terms of Ryanairs response to this I doubt they'll do much, and their press release confirms this.

    There is a huge untapped market out that direction and they're already playing catch up with Wizzair who have expanded through the former Soviet states in recent years. Ryanair is all about the €€€ so they won't want politics getting in the way of future expansion.


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    #112
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,770 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    so they want to trap people in Belarus? https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/status/1396572001590992905


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    #113
    refusetolose
    Registered Users Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭refusetolose


    crushproof wrote: »
    In terms of Ryanairs response to this I doubt they'll do much, and their press release confirms this.

    There is a huge untapped market out that direction and they're already playing catch up with Wizzair who have expanded through the former Soviet states in recent years. Ryanair is all about the €€€ so they won't want politics getting in the way of future expansion.

    and rightly so.


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    #114
    dockysher
    Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭dockysher


    Did they try saying another mass ?


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    #115
    ClosedAccountFuzzy
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ClosedAccountFuzzy


    To sum this up: an intra-EU flight, between two EU cities gets forced (with military jet escort) to land in a third country under false pretences of a bomb on board, so that someone could seize a passenger.

    It’s an enormous problem and needs a serious response, which will probably have to include restricting flights over Belarus.

    It’s basically a state sponsored hijacking.


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    #116
    ClosedAccountFuzzy
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ClosedAccountFuzzy


    Civilian flights pass over countries all the time without any risk to them. This goes way, way outside the norms of international aviation and that can’t go without a response at the very least to prevent further such incidents.

    Even causing an emergency landing under false pretences is absolutely unacceptable behaviour for any civil aviation authority.


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    #117
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭paul71


    Lmkrnr wrote: »
    I think this lad won't be involved in any colour revolutions for awhile. They call him a blogger but he's clearly an EU stooge.

    EU stooge? Like the several million Belarusians ensalved by law on collective farms or the students who have been "suicided", included the poor chap who climbed a tree with broken legs and without a ladder to "suicide" himself.

    Get a grip on reality and stop being a Putin and Lukashenko stooge.


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    #118
    Scuid Mhór
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Scuid Mhór


    paul71 wrote: »
    The Belarusian dictatorship, do keep up.

    You beat me to it Paul, apologies.


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    #119
    paul71
    Registered Users Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭paul71


    Back on topic Belarus is a vile disgusting dictatorship. The torture and murder of opposition is well documented and I worry for the safety of this young man.


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    #120
    ClosedAccountFuzzy
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ClosedAccountFuzzy


    It’s also a significant safety risk, placing an aircraft into a state of potential on board panic and causing them to divert from their flight plan, putting crew under extreme stress and forcing them to land at an unfamiliar airport.

    All of the above increases the risk of an accident or incident.

    You simply do not put aircraft into unnecessary danger or complications unless absolutely unavoidable. The whole philosophy behind civil aviation safety culture is about removing as many unexpected scenarios as possible and making things safely procedural and predictable. It’s all about risk minimisation.

    It also places passengers under enormous stress. It’s not unheard of for someone to have a heart attack or asthma attack in a situation like that.

    The whole thing was just totally unacceptable from any perspective.


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    #121
    ClosedAccountFuzzy
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ClosedAccountFuzzy


    There are many incidents in many countries that are abhorrent and unacceptable, but when it comes to government responses, proximity (in this case an Irish airline) will tend to trigger a stronger response.

    They did respond to the incidents you’re mentioning, but it’s impossible to respond the same to absolutely everything. We live in a world with a lot of horrible incidents and unfortunately all any of us can do is respond as best as we can. Things that are closer to us will tend to get noticed more.

    It’s not a lack of empathy or caring, but it’s just that the incident being discussed directly impacts an Irish airline.

    The international community could do a lot more for many, many issues and there are undoubtedly powerful economic and oil interests everyone afraid to offend and hand wring around, but this is an aviation thread and the topic being discussed is an one concerning an Irish airline.


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