Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

Jamie2k9 · 19-05-2020 11:09am

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Buy Irish is illegal under EU rules.

Nobody tell the EU all the illegal rules been broken currently...

Its more than possible to put out a tender and comply with rules and still get the operator of choice to win it.

_____
Its likely Aer Lingus only got PEK flights because of regulations, you couldn't for example see Finnair getting permission to run 50 non stop flights between DUB-PEK.

Its good they got PEK and were prepared to do it.

Delta will be S Korea-USA-Ireland? and combined with other destinations rather than expansive direct flights as demand has eased.

smurfjed · 19-05-2020 11:14am

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Buy Irish is illegal under EU rules.

True, but right now how about we protect our economy and fight the court case in the years to come.

Van.Bosch · 19-05-2020 11:20am

smurfjed wrote: »

True, but right now how about we protect our economy and fight the court case in the years to come.

I agree, was just pointing it out. I’m sure it could be “fixed” for EI but maybe EI got greedy.

goingnowhere · 19-05-2020 11:29am

At the time only EU carriers had the certification to carry cargo in the passenger cabin, EI had an advantage there.

FAA has approved it now, so its a level playing field.

That said the vast bulk of PPE is flying with EI

Nijmegen · 19-05-2020 11:51am

smurfjed wrote: »

True, but right now how about we protect our economy and fight the court case in the years to come.

Aha. And during that court case many of the same "Buy Irish!" will be moaning if the costs of other lower bids emerge and the headlines will be "State Overspent by €xx Million During Pandemic Crisis", with posts like "Dey couldn't be givin de nurses a raise but had all dat cash for tha Spanish company!"

Proper tender processes (a) provide value for money and (b) allow Irish companies to compete for and win business across our 450 million person EU market. It isn't in our 4.7 million person interest to suddenly become a standard bearer for deglobalisation.

joeysoap · 19-05-2020 5:46pm

No mattered what they tendered, I couldn’t see AL getting a contract to carry PPE from say Korea to anywhere in the US.

Might be using one of these

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SkyTeam_Cargo

Lapmo_Dancer · 19-05-2020 6:27pm

HTCOne wrote: »

https://flyinginireland.com/2020/05/repatriation-flights-continue-as-restrictions-begin-to-lift/

Just in case anyone thinks strokes are being pulled for EI in the PEK PPE transport flights, Finnair won the contract for the CAN flights, and Delta won the big one for ICN (120 million masks plus other PPE). These are put out for tender as per EU legislation, nobody is getting a free ride with tax payers €. EI got the PEK contract fair and square.

The bit about Delta getting awarded the Korea contract has been removed from the article?

HTCOne · 19-05-2020 8:12pm

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

The bit about Delta getting awarded the Korea contract has been removed from the article?

Indeed it has, strange.

Tenger · 19-05-2020 10:18pm

Lapmo_Dancer wrote: »

The bit about Delta getting awarded the Korea contract has been removed from the article?

Very odd. Maybe it was a mistake?

billy few mates · 20-05-2020 7:09am

HTCOne wrote: »

https://flyinginireland.com/2020/05/repatriation-flights-continue-as-restrictions-begin-to-lift/

Just in case anyone thinks strokes are being pulled for EI in the PEK PPE transport flights, Finnair won the contract for the CAN flights, and Delta won the big one for ICN (120 million masks plus other PPE). These are put out for tender as per EU legislation....

What "EU legislation" says you have to allow American companies an opportunity to compete against EU companies for contracts that have nothing to do with America...?

HTCOne · 20-05-2020 4:12pm

billy few mates wrote: »

What "EU legislation" says you have to allow American companies an opportunity to compete against EU companies for contracts that have nothing to do with America...?

Nothing specific to America, merely that national contracts must go for public tender, like how Royal Jordanian and UTAIR got the contracts for transporting our troops to and from UN missions in recent years.

Captain_Crash · 20-05-2020 6:10pm

HTCOne wrote: »

Nothing specific to America, merely that national contracts must go for public tender, like how Royal Jordanian and UTAIR got the contracts for transporting our troops to and from UN missions in recent years.

Not necessarily, EU legislation allows for restricted procedures to be put in place which makes it possible to only invite certain entities to submit tenders.

The Irish government choose to have tenders of this nature open to anyone but there is certainly no obligation for them to do so.

billy few mates · 20-05-2020 7:18pm

I would imagine that the wider you cast your net the better your chances of success but I doubt there's an EU regulation that says you have to give the Americans an opportunity to tender and then have to go with them if they come in with the best bid.

HTCOne · 20-05-2020 8:13pm

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/public-procurement/rules-implementation_en

It's all covered here, basically transparency, competitiveness etc. I see lots of mentions of "ensures equal competition across the EU", which implies they only apply to EU companies, but downloading and reading the entire document on a phone is less than appealing! I did come across an article stating these rules did not apply to emergency COVID supplies.

If DL did win the ICN contract, it is worth remembering they have a big hub operation in ICN, and A359s and B77Ls, which have advantages in cargo capacity vs the A330. Sure we'll have to wait and see what comes out in the wash officially.

L1011 · 20-05-2020 8:15pm

A "DL" contract win could have actually been AFKL tendering.

duskyjoe · 20-05-2020 8:26pm

Would Donald have let a european company get a contract ahead of an American company in the USA in these uncertain times to shift PPE?

NO

L1011 · 20-05-2020 8:40pm

duskyjoe wrote: »

Would Donald have let a european company get a contract ahead of an American company in the USA in these uncertain times to shift PPE?

NO

Is Trump someone to look at as a positive example, ever?

No.

But realistically, if the airline was owned by the landlord of one of his towers or golf courses, he'd be chomping at the bit.

duskyjoe · 21-05-2020 7:18am

L1011 wrote: »

Is Trump someone to look at as a positive example, ever?

No.

But realistically, if the airline was owned by the landlord of one of his towers or golf courses, he'd be chomping at the bit.

Replace Trump with American government policy so .....you’ll get the same answer. No need to get personal

California Dreamer · 21-05-2020 7:31am

duskyjoe wrote: »

Replace Trump with American government policy so .....you’ll get the same answer. No need to get personal

Hear Hear!!! No need to get personal against the president of the united states!

Poor fella wouldn't be able to take it! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

L1011 · 21-05-2020 8:14am

duskyjoe wrote: »

Replace Trump with American government policy so .....you’ll get the same answer. No need to get personal

But you were the one that personalised it.

kevinandrew · 21-05-2020 4:46pm

EI-DUO operating the 105 to JFK this afternoon, looks to be the only A330-200 still flying?

Any news on EI-EIK? Seems to have had its Qatar reg removed now.

eam77 · 21-05-2020 6:40pm

When do these new covid routes start

Tenger · 22-05-2020 12:21pm

eam77 wrote: »

When do these new covid routes start

"Covid routes"?

Jack1985 · 22-05-2020 4:53pm

It seems more cuts are imminent. Has to be said this is a very challenging time mentally for EI employees, as well as all of those in the aviation. It's jaw dropping to see whats happening to the sector.

Look after yourselves number one, both your mental and phsyical health.

Mc Love · 22-05-2020 5:30pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

It seems more cuts are imminent. Has to be said this is a very challenging time mentally for EI employees, as well as all of those in the aviation. It's jaw dropping to see whats happening to the sector.

Look after yourselves number one, both your mental and phsyical health.

What's your source or just stating opinion on the matter?

NH2013 · 22-05-2020 5:59pm

Mc Love wrote: »

What's your source or just stating opinion on the matter?

I believe staff were informed today that with effect from mid June layoffs would commence and that not all staff could be maintained on their current 50% pay levels either with further pay cuts beyond 50% for those that remain.

kevinandrew · 22-05-2020 6:24pm

The airline must feel they are still a long way off getting their operations going again, the arrival quarantine announced today will be seen as another setback but not exactly an unexpected one.

Aer Lingus must still feel somewhat at sea with regards to rebuilding its schedule, there's very little evidence to suggest Europe is ready to start flying again and the US will be no go area for quite a while. With the UK and Ireland common travel area remaining unaffected by the 14 day arrival quarantine announced by the two nations today, maybe there's scope for UK operations to begin next month?

However, Aer Lingus will no doubt be planning for a phased restart of their wider operations but they remain incredibly quiet on the details whereas Ryanair has been boasting of a 40% schedule by July and other European carriers like Lufthansa have spoken about restarting Asian and Middle Eastern markets. While Aer Lingus, like all other airlines, will have to be mindful of government travel restrictions and imposed quarantines, they also need to ensure they aren't too slow or cautious in reopening and missing out on that first mover advantage which is definitely why Ryanair's motivation.

PukkaStukka · 22-05-2020 6:47pm

Mc Love wrote: »

What's your source or just stating opinion on the matter?

There is truth in this I'm afraid.

I've been forwarded a message which seems to be a multi union communique. It states the current pay arrangements will continue for another 4 weeks, after which It warms of the threat of "unilateral measures including layoffs and further reductions in hours and pay" being taken. It resolved to protect members interests and called on the company to abide by existing agreements.

To me this is usual pre-dispute posturing but in this circumstance, it's entirely down to factors outside both sides control. A strike is pointless, so where can this go?

It's an apalling situation for everyone involved. Fingers crossed for the best.

Qprmeath · 22-05-2020 9:26pm

PukkaStukka wrote: »

There is truth in this I'm afraid.

I've been forwarded a message which seems to be a multi union communique. It states the current pay arrangements will continue for another 4 weeks, after which It warms of the threat of "unilateral measures including layoffs and further reductions in hours and pay" being taken. It resolved to protect members interests and called on the company to abide by existing agreements.

To me this is usual pre-dispute posturing but in this circumstance, it's entirely down to factors outside both sides control. A strike is pointless, so where can this go?

It's an apalling situation for everyone involved. Fingers crossed for the best.

Very accurate summing up of the current situation. Would hope the unions have some sort of plan for the next move.

kona · 22-05-2020 9:27pm

Qprmeath wrote: »

Very accurate summing up of the current situation. Would hope the unions have some sort of plan for the next move.

The unions are the equivalent of a ash tray on a motorbike.

Sexual Chocolate · 22-05-2020 10:34pm

kevinandrew wrote: »

EI-DUO operating the 105 to JFK this afternoon, looks to be the only A330-200 still flying?

Any news on EI-EIK? Seems to have had its Qatar reg removed now.

It's the only 200 I've noticed flying the past number of weeks. LAX is stored in Shannon I believe, not sure about the rest.

cson · 22-05-2020 11:11pm

NH2013 wrote: »

I believe staff were informed today that with effect from mid June layoffs would commence and that not all staff could be maintained on their current 50% pay levels either with further pay cuts beyond 50% for those that remain.

Jaysus at < 50% most cabin crew would be better off on welfare or working a minimum wage job. I get it from the pilots perspective in terms of keeping your hours ticking over, but **** that's still very very rough.

joeysoap · 23-05-2020 12:22am

I was shown an AL Payslip last week. The majority of the pay was the €700. I’d say the AL portion was no more than 30% and there was a tax refund too.

kona · 23-05-2020 12:47am

joeysoap wrote: »

I was shown an AL Payslip last week. The majority of the pay was the €700. I’d say the AL portion was no more than 30% and there was a tax refund too.

They are taking the piss. Government funding most of that show.

kevinandrew · 23-05-2020 12:53am

kona wrote: »

They are taking the piss. Government funding most of that show.

As they are with various other businesses, including airlines. That's the name of the game at the moment unfortunately.

L1011 · 23-05-2020 12:54am

When it comes to the subsidy scheme from an employers perspective, once the assurances about it not being considered to be trading insolvent came in you'd be mad not to take it if you could. Free money.

kona · 23-05-2020 1:34am

L1011 wrote: »

When it comes to the subsidy scheme from an employers perspective, once the assurances about it not being considered to be trading insolvent came in you'd be mad not to take it if you could. Free money.

Doesnt make it right. Some employers will be using it fairly, others however are using it to make up 50% of peoples wages the employees will be on the hook for the tax. Its pathetic and something that many people are familiar with from this government.

The fact of the matter is that since it kicked in, some people are enjoying 2 months off on it. Others are working away keeping the show running for the same terms.

Shamrockj · 23-05-2020 2:21am

kevinandrew wrote: »

EI-DUO operating the 105 to JFK this afternoon, looks to be the only A330-200 still flying?

Any news on EI-EIK? Seems to have had its Qatar reg removed now.

-LAX , -DAA and -GEY are all stored in shannon at the moment. Not sure why -DUO is still flying

goingnowhere · 23-05-2020 12:41pm

Believe it or not the current operations can require all the A330-300

There can be up to 7 tied up on the PEK operations

1 JFK, 1 ORD
=9
+1 Spare

And since PEK is only -300 to maximise volume of cargo, if there is a need for a further aircraft if it will be a -200 and flown to JFK or ORD. You most certainly don't want to cancel in the current circumstances, how and where to accommodate people might be tricky

PukkaStukka · 23-05-2020 3:07pm

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0522/1140090-unions-say-aer-lingus-staff-face-lay-offs-from-june-21/

Shamrockj · 23-05-2020 11:44pm

-EIK is now parked over next to the Aer Lingus hangar anyone know what will happen to this frame surely it's not going to be needed any time soon.

Tenger · 24-05-2020 12:06pm

Shamrockj wrote: »

-EIK is now parked over next to the Aer Lingus hangar anyone know what will happen to this frame surely it's not going to be needed any time soon.

There was a pic on the DUB spotters page on Facebook about 5-6 days ago. Showed it in that location with A7 decals over fuselage reg removed.

24-05-2020 1:19pm

Tenger wrote: »

There was a pic on the DUB spotters page on Facebook about 5-6 days ago. Showed it in that location with A7 decals over fuselage reg removed.

Now reg’d EI-EIK.

Jamie2k9 · 25-05-2020 1:26pm

NH2013 wrote: »

I believe staff were informed today that with effect from mid June layoffs would commence and that not all staff could be maintained on their current 50% pay levels either with further pay cuts beyond 50% for those that remain.

Staff pay cut of 50%, surly some confusion here?

My take:
If the Government scheme stays for a few extra months (IMO it will) and they are return a solid flying schedule then pay cuts will be more moderate but if it ends cuts will likely be more and less staff if they can't resume operations fully but 50% is mad and I don't think they would ever get such cuts passed nor should they try.

pm. · 25-05-2020 4:21pm

Looking at flight radar it looks like the US has not been effected by covid. When do you think we will see passanger flights return to the US?

HTCOne · 25-05-2020 4:29pm

pm. wrote: »

Looking at flight radar it looks like the US has not been effected by covid. When do you think we will see passanger flights return to the US?

A condition of the bailout the airlines received in the US was that they maintain a certain level of frequencies and not lay anyone off until October, just because they’re flying doesn’t mean they’re full.

Also, having that particular administration doesn’t help. The disease will be running around in rural and red states for months yet sadly. Other nations may want to restrict access for US citizens for a long time yet, although Trump may enact petulant retaliations.

Bear in mind passenger flights to the US never stopped though, EI are still flying DUB - JFK/ORD/BOS

joeysoap · 25-05-2020 4:59pm

With US citizens only allowed to enter the US?

goingnowhere · 25-05-2020 5:35pm

The list is quite a bit more than US citizens, if the US government wants you to travel to the US you will travel. As always if it suits the US there is a way within its complex immigration process to make exceptions.

EI ops are mainly for freight and mail but there is some passenger traffic, not much but there is some movement.

With the 14 day rule coming in that will probably cut back

cson · 25-05-2020 7:05pm

Right now I believe the only people who can fly to the US from Ireland (and vice versa) would be (i) US (or Irish) National repatriating, (ii) Irish Green Card holders and (iii) Dual US/Irish passport holders.

HTCOne · 25-05-2020 7:10pm

cson wrote: »

Right now I believe the only people who can fly to the US from Ireland (and vice versa) would be (i) US (or Irish) National repatriating, (ii) Irish Green Card holders and (iii) Dual US/Irish passport holders.

I think any EU citizen or person permitted to work in the EU is allowed on the eastbound flights.

Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

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