Denver Broncos Thread

Peyton Manning · 29-08-2011 4:18pm

neilster wrote: »

I dont think there is a veteran in the land that would commit those quotes to hard copy about a No.1 pick of any team let alone Tim Tebow. But Jim Trotter has spoken about veteran attitudes along with his Brandon Lloyd interview along with 2 of the Denver Beat writers and the Denver team blogs. I wasnt talking about Starters plural ...its Kyle Orton...one starter

As for attitude, you spoke of that as i ...does that mean i cant speak about Tebow reading defences just because you didnt say it cos it will certainly matter to John Elway & John Fox...probably a lot more than his attitude

You said that veterans definitely had a problem with Tebow. Show me these articles that prove they have a problem with him. If you're going to make claims like this, you would think you'd have some backup for it. And don't for one second think posting a "sources close to..." type story as proof of a definite problem, as you called it.

As for Brandon Lloyd's interview, here's what he said:

“It’s the Tebow Thing,” Lloyd said. “They’ll put Kyle on the trading block because they don’t want to deal with the Tebow Thing. But it’s not going to end until [Tebow] plays. The faster they get this Tebow Thing over with, one way or the other …

“I spent the entire offseason preparing myself for Tim being the quarterback, because the organization put Kyle on the trading block at the end of the year,” he continued. “I spent the offseason asking myself, ‘What pass plays are we going to be running? Are we going to be running sprint plays? Throwing from outside the pocket?’

“Running routes is easy, especially with a pure drop-back passer like Orton. But with Tim the ball is going to be coming from different spots and different angles. That takes getting used to.”

How in the blue hell have you interpretted that to mean he's unhappy with Tebow's actions?

tallaghtoutlaws · 29-08-2011 4:22pm

neilster wrote: »

I dont think there is a veteran in the land that would commit those quotes to hard copy about a No.1 pick of any team let alone Tim Tebow.

Adam let me clear this up then. You are saying no one would commit those quotes to hard copy but yet you know them? And if you did "hear" them on other interviews they are nothing more than hear say if no one has ever committed to put them on record. Is this going to be one of those debates where you pretend to have the inside track again?

I don't agree with EE or TB viewing on Tebow but Adam if you are going to argue the point at least try show something to back up what you say.

As for attitude, you spoke of that as i ...does that mean i cant speak about Tebow reading defences just because you didnt say it cos it will certainly matter to John Elway & John Fox...probably a lot more than his attitude

This is a whole load of nonsense and I can't stand Tim Tebow. Mike Klis of the Denver Post reported this and he is the only one saying it. And after his article about the first week of camp everyone is now saying it. How Klis can tell anything about reading defenses in the 1st week of camp is beyond me.

I wouldn't mind one of Klis's colleagues Woody Paige wrote an article about how good Tebow was at processing info. He did quote a couple of College coordinators saying Tebow was slow at processing the info but refuted it with current NFL coaches and analysts opinions on it.

neilster · 29-08-2011 10:29pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Adam let me clear this up then. You are saying no one would commit those quotes to hard copy but yet you know them? And if you did "hear" them on other interviews they are nothing more than hear say if no one has ever committed to put them on record. Is this going to be one of those debates where you pretend to have the inside track again?

I don't agree with EE or TB viewing on Tebow but Adam if you are going to argue the point at least try show something to back up what you say.

This is a whole load of nonsense and I can't stand Tim Tebow. Mike Klis of the Denver Post reported this and he is the only one saying it. And after his article about the first week of camp everyone is now saying it. How Klis can tell anything about reading defenses in the 1st week of camp is beyond me.

I wouldn't mind one of Klis's colleagues Woody Paige wrote an article about how good Tebow was at processing info. He did quote a couple of College coordinators saying Tebow was slow at processing the info but refuted it with current NFL coaches and analysts opinions on it.

I was trying to find this today ...if you put Jim Trotter into Google with Tebow and disrespect Veteran ..it comes up but when you go into the excerpt it has a load of stuff on multiple pages and i dont have the time to find it ...maybe someone else can find it ..i think its profootballtalk.com

But from memory i think it comes up from a beat writer discussing Brandon Lloyds article about naming Orton starter with a long-time fan . Both individuals would have witnessed interviews with the two QB's , and the post-practice microphone interviews and the interaction between the two and veteran reactions ...im not trying to be wooly on it ...if someone finds it put it up here

everyone seems to jump on this as if im dissing Tebow ...its the way his playing-not playing is affecting a locker-room and the distraction that this causes ....I dont think Tebow is a bad guy...i dont think any of us do ...TBrady seems to think that questioning the guy is tantamount to questioning his faith

There is also a good article on one of the Gator blogs about Tebows heart and determination from an admirer but also a very good perspective on his limitations ...i will try and find it tomorrow

tallaghtoutlaws · 29-08-2011 10:37pm

neilster wrote: »

I was trying to find this today ...if you put Jim Trotter into Google with Tebow and disrespect Veteran ..it comes up but when you go into the excerpt it has a load of stuff on multiple pages and i dont have the time to find it ...maybe someone else can find it ..i think its profootballtalk.com

But from memory i think it comes up from a beat writer discussing Brandon Lloyds article about naming Orton starter with a long-time fan . Both individuals would have witnessed interviews with the two QB's , and the post-practice microphone interviews and the interaction between the two and veteran reactions ...im not trying to be wooly on it ...if someone finds it put it up here

everyone seems to jump on this as if im dissing Tebow ...its the way his playing-not playing is affecting a locker-room and the distraction that this causes ....I dont think Tebow is a bad guy...i dont think any of us do ...TBrady seems to think that questioning the guy is tantamount to questioning his faith

There is also a good article on one of the Gator blogs about Tebows heart and determination from an admirer but also a very good perspective on his limitations ...i will try and find it tomorrow

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jim_trotter/08/01/broncos-quarterbacks/index.html

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- New coach John Fox hasn't even gotten through his first full week of practice with the Broncos and already he's facing a credibility moment in his locker room.

Not surprisingly, it revolves around the quarterback position, which is as drama-filled and laced with controversy as a Real Housewives episode. From the moment he arrived in town to replace the fired Josh McDaniels, Fox has said that there would be an open competition and the best player would start. On the eve of training camp, however, news surfaced that the Broncos were considering trading incumbent Kyle Orton to Miami, presumably to create an opening for 2010 first-round pick Tim Tebow.

TROTTER: BRONCOS TRAINING CAMP POSTCARD

First problem: Orton proceeded to kill it in practice, while Tebow struggled. Observers saw it, coaches saw it and, equally important, players saw it.

Second problem: How could the front office -- and Fox, by extension -- even consider moving Orton when the gap between him, Tebow and Brady Quinn has been as wide as the initial debt-reduction plans of Democrats and Republicans?

"Our comment from the very get-go was to let them come out and compete," says executive VP John Elway. "Obviously, if we get trade offers for anyone on the team, we're going to listen to them. It's not just tied to Kyle. Before I got here, we heard different things about the situation down in the locker room, and obviously we don't want that to be a problem. But where we are right here is, Kyle's here and the best guy is going to play. There's no question that the locker room means a lot to me and a lot to John Fox. Players know players, and they want the best opportunity to win. I know when I was sitting down in that room as a player I wanted the best opportunity to win. That's our job, to give them the best opportunity to win and to do what's best for the organization, all encompassed together."

If it were strictly a football decision, it would be a no-brainer at this point. Orton threw for 41 touchdowns and had the second-lowest interception percentage among regular starters the past two seasons. He is entering his seventh season and has won 32 of 61 career starts.

Tebow has just three career starts, completing only 49.4 percent of his passes in them with four touchdowns and three interceptions. He is still adjusting to throwing from the pocket after playing in a spread system at Florida that capitalized on his scrambling abilities. None of this is to say he can't be an effective starter; just that he clearly has some catching up to do if the objective is to win now.

Viewed strictly through an on-field prism, the Broncos' best chance to compete for their first winning season since 2006 is with Orton, based on his experience and production. Yet around town he is treated as if he has leprosy. Callers to sports talk radio want him out of town sooner than later, a reaction that causes many Broncos veterans to shake their heads -- just as they shake their heads at the idea of trading him.

"It's the Tebow Thing," says leading receiver Brandon Lloyd. "They'll put Kyle on the trading block because they don't want to deal with the Tebow Thing. But it's not going to end until (Tebow) plays. The faster they get this Tebow Thing over with, one way or the other ..."

Lloyd paused. He acknowledged he would be "pissed" if Orton were traded, because the two of them developed a formidable bond last season when Lloyd led the league with 1,448 yards on 77 catches and tied for fourth with 11 TD receptions.

But he also understands that football is a business and Orton is in the final year of his contract. Elway and Fox did not sign Orton, just as they did not draft Tebow. But if the organization feels the wildly popular youngster has more upside -- and can be the face of the franchise and put fans in the seats-- is there really a need to keep Orton long-term? Better yet, why would Orton want to stay beyond this year?

"I spent the entire offseason preparing myself for Tim being the quarterback, because the organization put Kyle on the trading block at the end of the year," Lloyd says. "I spent the offseason asking myself, 'What pass plays are we going to be running? Are we going to be running sprint plays? Throwing from outside the pocket?'

"Running routes is easy, especially with a pure drop-back passer like Orton. But with Tim the ball is going to be coming from different spots and different angles. That takes getting used to."

The relationship between Orton and Tebow is neither icy nor chummy. The two are teammates, but they do not hang out together. There is no noticeable small talk between them on the field.

Orton says matter of factly he is the starter; Fox agrees ... for the moment. However, Tebow is open about his desire to be the guy. He says he has things to work on -- play-action drops, checking to the flat, understanding concepts and not relying on athleticism -- and will work to improve them. But he is careful to say that he is not wishing for Orton to fail.

"What kind of character does it show to wish failure on someone? I want him to do well and I want to do well. I just want to get better," he says.

The Broncos acknowledge that Orton has been more polished in practice, but they say preseason games will play a major role in determining the outcome. Tebow likes to say he's a "gamer," which was reflected in his three starts last season, when he was better than most anticipated he would be. If he shows well in exhibition games this month, it's not inconceivable that the Broncos will seek to trade Orton.

One thing is certain, though. If the team deals Orton without Tebow or Quinn closing the performance gap, it will raise a lot of eyebrows among a very important group of people: Broncos players.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jim_trotter/08/01/broncos-quarterbacks/index.html#ixzz1WSLnoP89

neilster · 29-08-2011 11:03pm

Tom_Brady wrote: »

You said that veterans definitely had a problem with Tebow. Show me these articles that prove they have a problem with him. If you're going to make claims like this, you would think you'd have some backup for it. And don't for one second think posting a "sources close to..." type story as proof of a definite problem, as you called it.

As for Brandon Lloyd's interview, here's what he said:

How in the blue hell have you interpretted that to mean he's unhappy with Tebow's actions?

Tell me Tom are you Tebows' publicist ? i have given my explanation and you as usual will want a Turin shroud carbon-dated to prove something and even after all that the Pats wont get the Jets off the field on 3rd down...the guy is fourth on the depth chart and there is nothing your blind faith can do about it ...no one hates the guy he just isnt an NFL starter

He either converts to Full Back or he will have a permanent career in theology soon. If he hadnt picked up $6m lately he would be on the trading block. It looks like from stills of mini-camp that Elway wants to resurrect what he can from a wasted 1st rd pick, which is good for Tebow

I didnt say that Brandon Lloyd spoke of veterans exactly ...he talks about players wanting clarity and mentioned the "Tebow thing" which i take it he means the circus following this thing , he also speaks about veterans wanting a locker room where there is clarity on the starter . He is alluding to veterans views on the Tebow issue

As for exact issue with the press ...it was felt that once Orton was anointed starter it was bad form to go out and do an interview with 200 press when he isnt the starter ...bad form and all that ...find it ..its out there on cyberspace and if you cant find it i couldnt........

neilster · 29-08-2011 11:06pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Adam let me clear this up then. You are saying no one would commit those quotes to hard copy but yet you know them? And if you did "hear" them on other interviews they are nothing more than hear say if no one has ever committed to put them on record. Is this going to be one of those debates where you pretend to have the inside track again?

I don't agree with EE or TB viewing on Tebow but Adam if you are going to argue the point at least try show something to back up what you say.

This is a whole load of nonsense and I can't stand Tim Tebow. Mike Klis of the Denver Post reported this and he is the only one saying it. And after his article about the first week of camp everyone is now saying it. How Klis can tell anything about reading defenses in the 1st week of camp is beyond me.

I wouldn't mind one of Klis's colleagues Woody Paige wrote an article about how good Tebow was at processing info. He did quote a couple of College coordinators saying Tebow was slow at processing the info but refuted it with current NFL coaches and analysts opinions on it.

Bastard Prince put this up ...it is what i spoke about from the Gator perspective ...very good at summing up what existed in the college days and why Tebow starting is probably unlikely

nteresting blog post:

What Do We Do With A Problem Like Tim Tebow?

tallaghtoutlaws · 29-08-2011 11:08pm

And then there is PFT take on the article above that I posted:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/02/broncos-players-unswayed-by-the-tebow-thing/

Kyle Orton trying to overcome “The Tebow Thing”
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on August 2, 2011, 10:14 AM EDT
Kyle Orton AP

In Miami, they are chanting Kyle Orton’s name.

It’s hard to imagine Broncos fans doing the same, but Orton’s teammates sure seem to appreciate the guy. SI.com’s Jim Trotter wrote about the unspoken reality after the start of Broncos training camp: The players can see that Orton gives the team the best chance to win.

“How could the front office — and [John] Fox, by extension — even consider moving Orton when the gap between him, [Tim] Tebow and Brady Quinn has been as wide as the initial debt-reduction plans of Democrats and Republicans?” Trotter writes.

Trotter says many Broncos veterans shake their head at the notion Orton could be dealt.

“It’s the Tebow Thing,” wideout Brandon Lloyd said. “They’ll put Kyle on the trading block because they don’t want to deal with the Tebow Thing. But it’s not going to end until [Tebow] plays. The faster they get this Tebow Thing over with, one way or the other …”

Lloyd said he would be “pissed” if Orton was dealt, but he’s also thought about life with Tebow. More than anything, it sounds like Broncos players want clarity. Lloyd said he practiced differently this offseason expecting Tebow to be the guy.

“Running routes is easy, especially with a pure drop-back passer like Orton. But with Tim the ball is going to be coming from different spots and different angles. That takes getting used to,” Lloyd told Trotter.

Broncos VP John Elway seems to understand that they can’t fix the quarterback competition. Orton is taking all the first team snaps now.

“Before I got here, we heard different things about the situation down in the locker room, and obviously we don’t want that to be a problem. But where we are right here is, Kyle’s here and the best guy is going to play. There’s no question that the locker room means a lot to me and a lot to John Fox. Players know players, and they want the best opportunity to win,” Elway said.

If the Broncos were going to trade to Orton, they should have done it before training camp started. Orton bet on himself by helping to scuttle the deal to Miami.

At this point, that bet is paying off.

And neither of them confirm what you said. They both touch brush over the hear say really.

tallaghtoutlaws · 29-08-2011 11:10pm

neilster wrote: »

Bastard Prince put this up ...it is what i spoke about from the Gator perspective ...very good at summing up what existed in the college days and why Tebow starting is probably unlikely

nteresting blog post:

What Do We Do With A Problem Like Tim Tebow?

Interesting blog post by a guy posting his own blog though. He knows just as much of the situation as we do really as I doubt he has any connection to either the Gators or the Broncos other than being a fan. Blogs are not a good source of actual fact. They are a great source for other peoples opinions.

neilster · 29-08-2011 11:16pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

And then there is PFT take on the article above:

And neither of them confirm what you said. They both touch brush over the hear say really.

Its someones take on the PFT take of Trotters article ...i could find the exact quote on the Google search page but not the article

here it is on next post

neilster · 29-08-2011 11:18pm

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/10/more-evidence-the-broncos-quarterback-competition-is-over/

and for TomBrady ...pipe ...and smoke it

"
More evidence the Broncos quarterback competition is “over”

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on August 10, 2011, 9:48 AM EDT
j-elway2.jpg?w=140

Getty ImagesWe tend to ignore or disregard most everything Rick Reilly writes these days. Call it the Leatherheads effect.
We’ll make an exception for his eye-opening piece on the Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow mess in Denver because Reilly lives in the area, and has close ties to the top of the organization: Broncos Executive VP of Football Operations John Elway.
(Reilly mistakenly calls Elway the team president. Ignore that for now.)
Let’s start with an Elway quote:
“He’s a great young man who is really working hard,” Elway said. “But he didn’t get an offseason to work on [playing from the pocket]. He didn’t get much of that in college. And it’s a completely different thing than the shotgun. Plus, he’s only had the one season. But he’s an amazing football player. I’d never give up on Tim Tebow.”
Whoa. Who said anything about giving up on Tebow? He’s a second year quarterback that lost his biggest supporter (Josh McDaniels) and didn’t get his second offseason. Just the fact Elway’s mind went there is surprising.
Also telling: Reilly’s harsh assessment after getting the low down from Elway. Reilly says the quarterback competition is “over.”
“Orton won by the kind of margin Kim Jong Il wins elections,” he writes.
Tebow is stiff under center and can’t make decisions quickly enough. Something tells us Reilly didn’t suddenly turn into a football scout to make these assessments. They are coming from the Broncos.
“The other way you know it’s over is that Orton is talking to Tebow again,” Reilly writes. “He didn’t talk to him all last year. He told people it was because Tebow was a ‘rookie,’ but it was more than that. Tebow, ever gracious, kept talking with reporters every day. A lot of the players thought he should’ve stopped, in deference to the starter, Orton, who was getting scrums one-tenth the size.”
The locker room is firmly behind Orton.
The Broncos organization, meanwhile, seems further away than ever from figuring out what quarterback can emerge from Elway’s long shadow."

neilster · 29-08-2011 11:23pm

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Interesting blog post by a guy posting his own blog though. He knows just as much of the situation as we do really as I doubt he has any connection to either the Gators or the Broncos other than being a fan. Blogs are not a good source of actual fact. They are a great source for other peoples opinions.

Point taken ....it is a good article ...what i liked about it was it was a Gator stalwart reaching the end of the road on his views of him as a starter in the NFL...interesting as an opinion piece ....there seems to be a lot of blind faith (no pun intended) on Tebow

tallaghtoutlaws · 29-08-2011 11:27pm

neilster wrote: »

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/10/more-evidence-the-broncos-quarterback-competition-is-over/

and for TomBrady ...pipe ...and smoke it

"
More evidence the Broncos quarterback competition is “over”

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on August 10, 2011, 9:48 AM EDT
Getty ImagesWe tend to ignore or disregard most everything Rick Reilly writes these days. Call it the Leatherheads effect.
We’ll make an exception for his eye-opening piece on the Kyle Orton and Tim Tebow mess in Denver because Reilly lives in the area, and has close ties to the top of the organization: Broncos Executive VP of Football Operations John Elway.
(Reilly mistakenly calls Elway the team president. Ignore that for now.)
Let’s start with an Elway quote:
“He’s a great young man who is really working hard,” Elway said. “But he didn’t get an offseason to work on [playing from the pocket]. He didn’t get much of that in college. And it’s a completely different thing than the shotgun. Plus, he’s only had the one season. But he’s an amazing football player. I’d never give up on Tim Tebow.”
Whoa. Who said anything about giving up on Tebow? He’s a second year quarterback that lost his biggest supporter (Josh McDaniels) and didn’t get his second offseason. Just the fact Elway’s mind went there is surprising.
Also telling: Reilly’s harsh assessment after getting the low down from Elway. Reilly says the quarterback competition is “over.”
“Orton won by the kind of margin Kim Jong Il wins elections,” he writes.
Tebow is stiff under center and can’t make decisions quickly enough. Something tells us Reilly didn’t suddenly turn into a football scout to make these assessments. They are coming from the Broncos.
“The other way you know it’s over is that Orton is talking to Tebow again,” Reilly writes. “He didn’t talk to him all last year. He told people it was because Tebow was a ‘rookie,’ but it was more than that. Tebow, ever gracious, kept talking with reporters every day. A lot of the players thought he should’ve stopped, in deference to the starter, Orton, who was getting scrums one-tenth the size.”
The locker room is firmly behind Orton.
The Broncos organization, meanwhile, seems further away than ever from figuring out what quarterback can emerge from Elway’s long shadow."

Wait what is this backing up? The part TB asked you to prove was about disgruntled players and veterans and what they were saying about Tebow as you used the words whisperings and definitely in the same sentence. You go on to tell me to find certain articles and I find 2 neither of which back you up and then you throw up "the competition is over" piece.

You would want to be living under a rock to know that Tebow isn't fighting for a starting spot anymore especially this year with the Broncos. But that wasn't the debate.

Peyton Manning · 29-08-2011 11:52pm

Neilster, you still haven't shown anything that backs up your plagIiarised opinion that the veterans were definitely upset at Tebow.

What you've done is take an opinion article from PFT and try pass it off as your own (as you've been doing since the day you found this forum).

You have no idea what you're talking about. Plagiarise Adam Schefter next time, at least then you won't end up embarrassing yourself.

neilster · 30-08-2011 8:46am

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Neilster, you still haven't shown anything that backs up your plagIiarised opinion that the veterans were definitely upset at Tebow.

What you've done is take an opinion article from PFT and try pass it off as your own (as you've been doing since the day you found this forum).

You have no idea what you're talking about. Plagiarise Adam Schefter next time, at least then you won't end up embarrassing yourself.

Yawn ...predictable ...yawn...predictable ...yawn...aww predictable again ..just like the Pats defensive reaction to Third Down...you dont like me and that is very easy to see ...but hey thats life ..certainly isnt going to bother me

It was ..."the report it didnt exist" now its "plagiarise"...at least you are mixing it up .....anyone with any grey matter between their ears knows we arent beat writers...we dont deal with the NFL for a living so your views are coming from the same mix of blogs , opinion pieces , watching film etc as mine are so deal with it

When Tallaght talks about a report , its more about where it came from , the veracity of it etc as i explained and i get that ...i never said that this was about veterans up in arms about Tebow, i mentioned small things , if you read back what i said i leaven what it said after i said it ...you went there not me . For what its worth people equally disliked Orton often blanking Tebow , maybe cos he was a rival , cos tebow is a friendly sort , everyone knows that . The opinion piece is from somone quite close to the person making personal decisions about trading orton or not , paying roster bonuses to Tebow and his future with the Denver Broncos . I feel it is a valid opinion, time will tell. The reason i brought it up was it was something new and NFL fans as we all are here may like it . Now the full article is there

but lets deal with what you say , im only dealing with this once :

"Neilster, you still haven't shown anything that backs up your plagIiarised opinion that the veterans were definitely upset at Tebow"

I have never said that this was a heavy issue but this is a writer begging to differ with you

"What you've done is take an opinion article from PFT and try pass it off as your own (as you've been doing since the day you found this forum)."

I never said this was my own observation, you said it doesnt exist , i provided the link ...now you are trying to mention plagiarisation...good grief make ur mind up ..no wonder no one ever supports your posts

"You have no idea what you're talking about. Plagiarise Adam Schefter next time, at least then you won't end up embarrassing yourself.
"

I have never ever said you dont know what you are talking about, why do u need to do it ...as i said you are reading and enjoying similar things to me ...unless you are private jetting to practice and being on the sidelines with John Elway or are spending 70 hours a week on personnel decisions or in a film room ...you are just like the rest of us or maybe you think you arent. I

neilster · 30-08-2011 9:03am

neilster wrote: »

Definitely in Denver veterans in the Broncos organisation were not to enamoured with some things Toebow done. There were whisperings that after the initial Tebow-mainia had died down last year that Tebow should have respected the starter more

There was talk about inpromptu interviews after practice with huge numbers of media even though Tebow was the no.2 and the way that the circus was undermining Orton. Whilst i would say that Tebow is in no ways a classic diva , there has been exasperation this off-season that he wasnt reading defensive looks better ..so does the guy have the football IQ for the job

This is something that Brandon Lloyd alluded to in ways when thanking god Orton was back after the brief Miami trade talks

I have given an example where someone close to Elway has mentioned things done by Tebow (we arent talking T.O. diva stuff but i never said it was) and their views on the veteran response to it from someone close to Elway ....the issues arent heavy but what is significant i think is that someone close to Elway would say it , and allow it to be printed and a locker room would know it was said and Tebow would know it was said

Tallaght has given examples of some articles getting pulled when Tebows star was on the rise, this was never a big issue until it was said it didnt exist

neilster · 30-08-2011 10:33am

Tom_Brady wrote: »

You said Mallett was more mobile than Tebow in the pocket. I said he wasn't, proof of which was his lack of pocket mobility over his years at Arkansas. You think you've seen enough in preseason to suggest he's now Ben Roethlisberger or something? Sure thing Adam :rolleyes:

You are saying i said Mallett was more mobile that isnt what i am saying ..this is what i said

"You would have to say that in terms of running a pro-style office ...moving around the pocket ...accuracy and following all of his reads there may be a significant gap between Mallett & Tebow even at this early stage and other 2011 QB draftees may be ahead of him also"

but to expand on what i said it is Malletts movements in the pocket that impressed me and whilst he has been patchy afterwards he had a strong showing in Game 1 as Hoyer had. Im not talking about mobility . Aaron Rodgers is highly mobile, has good rushing stats etc, Paytom Manning isnt particularly mobile or Tom Brady either. It isnt necessarily what they need to be to be highly productive

What they do have is the ability to sense the rush , to move up , backwards and from side to side avoiding the rush...For someone who got labelled as a pretty static passer by draftniks prior to the draft it was nice to see Mallett moving nicely in the pocket in Game One in pre-season . It is early days but he appears to be learning ...Mobile was your word not mine

tallaghtoutlaws · 30-08-2011 10:36am

neilster wrote: »

but to expand on what i said it is Malletts movements in the pocket that impressed me and whilst he has been patchy afterwards he had a strong showing in Game 1 as Hoyer had. Im not talking about mobility .

As I said to you Tebow did also last year in his first pre-season game and again as much as I hate Tebow you cannot compare him and Mallet right now. Especially not after a few minutes of pre-season football.

Peyton Manning · 30-08-2011 10:49am

neilster wrote: »

Yawn ...predictable ...yawn...predictable ...yawn...aww predictable again ..just like the Pats defensive reaction to Third Down...you dont like me and that is very easy to see ...but hey thats life ..certainly isnt going to bother me

Swing and a miss. Why even mention that? You wouldn't happen to be trolling would you?

neilster wrote: »

It was ..."the report it didnt exist" now its "plagiarise"...at least you are mixing it up

Nice try neilster. You said that there was definitely veterans upset with Tebow. Most people only use the word definitely when they themselves are 100% sure of something. You apparently use it when some guy whose blog you read mentions a rumour that he has no source to back it up with..

Again, until you can provide actual evidence or quotes that they are definitely upset with Tebow, I would stop trying to pass off other people's claims as definite fact. That should be obvious to most people, but not you.

neilster wrote: »

anyone with any grey matter between their ears knows we arent beat writers...we dont deal with the NFL for a living so your views are coming from the same mix of blogs , opinion pieces , watching film etc as mine are so deal with it

Eh, what? I form my own views from watching games and seeing what happens in the NFL. I read articles for news and to see other peoples opinions. I don't base my opinions on other peoples. Again, I imagine that's how most people form opinions but apparently not you. Your views are ones you've lifted from other blogs it seems?

neilster wrote: »

When Tallaght talks about a report , its more about where it came from , the veracity of it etc as i explained and i get that ...i never said that this was about veterans up in arms about Tebow, i mentioned small things , if you read back what i said i leaven what it said after i said it ...you went there not me.

Tallaght had an opinion about Tebow's attitude. I disagreed with it, but it was his opinion and he never tried to pass it off as definite fact which si what you did. He posted articles that you claimed backed up that Tebow was upsetting veterans in Denver, but they don't. You also claimed a Brandon Lloyd interview was damning. You said:

I dont think there is a veteran in the land that would commit those quotes to hard copy about a No.1 pick of any team let alone Tim Tebow. But Jim Trotter has spoken about veteran attitudes along with his Brandon Lloyd interview....

Again, you said this interview was also damning of Tebow's attitude. It mentions NOTHING about his attitude. It's about Brandon Lloyd wanting clarity on who's the starting QB. There is absolutely no criticism of Tebow whatsoever in it. I'm sure you thought you could mention it and no one would queston it, but the article has nothing to do with what you claimed it did.

neilster wrote: »

but lets deal with what you say , im only dealing with this once :

"Neilster, you still haven't shown anything that backs up your plagIiarised opinion that the veterans were definitely upset at Tebow"

I have never said that this was a heavy issue but this is a writer begging to differ with you

No, but you said it was an issue despite the fact there's nothing to suggest it is even a remote issue. It's not.

neilster wrote: »

I have never ever said you dont know what you are talking about, why do u need to do it ...as i said you are reading and enjoying similar things to me

I am reading the same things as you, only I'm not trying to pass them off as fact when there's nothing to suggest it.

That's the problem, you quoted my post when me and TO were talking about Tebow's attitude. Then you went off on a complete tangent about how Denver players were unhappy with the lack of clarity in the QB situation and how they wanted a definite starter to be named and somehow twisted this into a criticism of Tebow himself. If you actually stopped quoting posts you're not even planning on addressing, instead going off on complete tangents trying to look "informed", then you'd be grand.

neilster · 30-08-2011 12:52pm

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Swing and a miss. Why even mention that? You wouldn't happen to be trolling would you?

Nice try neilster. You said that there was definitely veterans upset with Tebow. Most people only use the word definitely when they themselves are 100% sure of something. You apparently use it when some guy whose blog you read mentions a rumour that he has no source to back it up with..

Again, until you can provide actual evidence or quotes that they are definitely upset with Tebow, I would stop trying to pass off other people's claims as definite fact. That should be obvious to most people, but not you.

Eh, what? I form my own views from watching games and seeing what happens in the NFL. I read articles for news and to see other peoples opinions. I don't base my opinions on other peoples. Again, I imagine that's how most people form opinions but apparently not you. Your views are ones you've lifted from other blogs it seems?

Tallaght had an opinion about Tebow's attitude. I disagreed with it, but it was his opinion and he never tried to pass it off as definite fact which si what you did. He posted articles that you claimed backed up that Tebow was upsetting veterans in Denver, but they don't. You also claimed a Brandon Lloyd interview was damning. You said:

Again, you said this interview was also damning of Tebow's attitude. It mentions NOTHING about his attitude. It's about Brandon Lloyd wanting clarity on who's the starting QB. There is absolutely no criticism of Tebow whatsoever in it. I'm sure you thought you could mention it and no one would queston it, but the article has nothing to do with what you claimed it did.

No, but you said it was an issue despite the fact there's nothing to suggest it is even a remote issue. It's not.

I am reading the same things as you, only I'm not trying to pass them off as fact when there's nothing to suggest it.

That's the problem, you quoted my post when me and TO were talking about Tebow's attitude. Then you went off on a complete tangent about how Denver players were unhappy with the lack of clarity in the QB situation and how they wanted a definite starter to be named and somehow twisted this into a criticism of Tebow himself. If you actually stopped quoting posts you're not even planning on addressing, instead going off on complete tangents trying to look "informed", then you'd be grand.

as i have said before you dont like me and that is usually front and centre in all of this ....and im not particularly worried about your definition of grand ...or definitely ...or guarantee ...or anything else ...and as another OP mentioned in an exchange with you several days ago you like this thing to go around and around....you said it didnt exist ...it did ...but you can bill the time to your employer Timothy Tebow:D

neilster · 30-08-2011 1:47pm

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Neilster, you still haven't shown anything that backs up your plagIiarised opinion that the veterans were definitely upset at Tebow.

What you've done is take an opinion article from PFT and try pass it off as your own (as you've been doing since the day you found this forum).

You have no idea what you're talking about. Plagiarise Adam Schefter next time, at least then you won't end up embarrassing yourself.

I repeat Rick Reilly isnt a blogger as you call him , this isnt totally connected with PFT either , it is their comment on his ESPN column

but while we are at it here is the "blogger's bio"

"Reilly joined ESPN in 2008 to write for ESPN The Magazine. Previously he wrote for 22 years for Sports Illustrated. Prior to that, Reilly worked for The Denver Post, the Los Angeles Times and the Boulder Daily Camera, where he started his career"

and he does speak about veteran attitudes to Tebow in the article , thats all i spoke about , you asked me to prove it and there you are

neilster · 30-08-2011 1:54pm

Tom_Brady wrote: »

Swing and a miss. Why even mention that? You wouldn't happen to be trolling would you?

Nice try neilster. You said that there was definitely veterans upset with Tebow. Most people only use the word definitely when they themselves are 100% sure of something. You apparently use it when some guy whose blog you read mentions a rumour that he has no source to back it up with..

Again, until you can provide actual evidence or quotes that they are definitely upset with Tebow, I would stop trying to pass off other people's claims as definite fact. That should be obvious to most people, but not you.

Eh, what? I form my own views from watching games and seeing what happens in the NFL. I read articles for news and to see other peoples opinions. I don't base my opinions on other peoples. Again, I imagine that's how most people form opinions but apparently not you. Your views are ones you've lifted from other blogs it seems?

Tallaght had an opinion about Tebow's attitude. I disagreed with it, but it was his opinion and he never tried to pass it off as definite fact which si what you did. He posted articles that you claimed backed up that Tebow was upsetting veterans in Denver, but they don't. You also claimed a Brandon Lloyd interview was damning. You said:

Again, you said this interview was also damning of Tebow's attitude. It mentions NOTHING about his attitude. It's about Brandon Lloyd wanting clarity on who's the starting QB. There is absolutely no criticism of Tebow whatsoever in it. I'm sure you thought you could mention it and no one would queston it, but the article has nothing to do with what you claimed it did.

No, but you said it was an issue despite the fact there's nothing to suggest it is even a remote issue. It's not.

I am reading the same things as you, only I'm not trying to pass them off as fact when there's nothing to suggest it.

That's the problem, you quoted my post when me and TO were talking about Tebow's attitude. Then you went off on a complete tangent about how Denver players were unhappy with the lack of clarity in the QB situation and how they wanted a definite starter to be named and somehow twisted this into a criticism of Tebow himself. If you actually stopped quoting posts you're not even planning on addressing, instead going off on complete tangents trying to look "informed", then you'd be grand.

Rick Reilly from ESPN observed something that is not particularly favourable towards Tebow (not defering to the starter, not a huge issue and maybe done unknowingly ... but he did) and he mentioned veteran attitudes towards it

have you read the article or you are telling me you read it ?

LuckyLloyd · 31-08-2011 12:06pm

Meh, I'm just looking forward to 12 months time when Tebow is struggling to hang on a roster somewhere and there is less noise coming from his fans.

neilster · 31-08-2011 12:55pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, I'm just looking forward to 12 months time when Tebow is struggling to hang on a roster somewhere and there is less noise coming from his fans.

The funny thing is the $6m roster bonus is paid to Tebow now , the dust has settled after thi sand the camp competition. Orton will start and may have a very productive year, he is in a contract year and may see a Free Agency big payday at a number of teams . Whilst teams have drafted QBs of the future in SanFran, Minnesota, Tennessee , Cincinnatti & Jacksonville, in several cases they may not work out and when you add in Washington & Miami and even Oakland or Seattle ( i think Whitehurst may surprise people) , those teams may take a long hard look at making Orton 2012's Kevin Kolb

As for Brady Quinn he has good chance to become relevant again and as for Tebow , he must use this time to become a trade bargaining chip at best . Next summer Denver will have to decide to pay Orton or someone else and that may come too soon for Tebow. What is so wrong with him becoming a half-back/full back/Tight End hybrid, he has shown real ability ability in these areas , he is a gamer and can succeed in the NFL just not as a QB

tallaghtoutlaws · 31-08-2011 2:33pm

neilster wrote: »

What is so wrong with him becoming a half-back/full back/Tight End hybrid, he has shown real ability ability in these areas , he is a gamer and can succeed in the NFL just not as a QB

He wont do it but lets face no team will take a hybrid Tebow over a guy who is an actual HB/FB/TE. You change his position he still becomes a project player because he has to learn and adjust to that new position.

tallaghtoutlaws · 31-08-2011 2:36pm

neilster wrote: »

Rick Reilly from ESPN observed something that is not particularly favourable towards Tebow (not defering to the starter, not a huge issue and maybe done unknowingly ... but he did) and he mentioned veteran attitudes towards it

have you read the article or you are telling me you read it ?

Reilly is a hack at best. Hated him when he wrote for SI hate him even more now he went to ESPN. In fact the only page of the ESPN Mag I avoid is the backpage because of him.

Another one of these guys where his so professional opinion is up his hole. The whole Tebow thing is prime example of him trying to turn his opinion of something he said he saw into fact. Not the first time he has done it either.

neilster · 01-09-2011 10:24am

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

He wont do it but lets face no team will take a hybrid Tebow over a guy who is an actual HB/FB/TE. You change his position he still becomes a project player because he has to learn and adjust to that new position.

Thats a fair point , im thinking of the guy who was Arian Fosters Fullback last season with some short yardage situations

mikemac · 01-09-2011 10:36am

I always reckoned Jamarcus Russell could be a good right tackle

neilster · 01-09-2011 10:42am

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Reilly is a hack at best. Hated him when he wrote for SI hate him even more now he went to ESPN. In fact the only page of the ESPN Mag I avoid is the backpage because of him.

Another one of these guys where his so professional opinion is up his hole. The whole Tebow thing is prime example of him trying to turn his opinion of something he said he saw into fact. Not the first time he has done it either.

Would have thought some similar things about his SI time, Several guys stronger from Don Banks, Bucky Brooks, Damon Hack to much missed Dr Z. Funny Peter King can glean some good stuff at times but some stuff takes a flyer ...and the whole Armed Forces stuff....its heartfelt but its too front and centre in my opionion but again its a personal preference. I also like Matt Bowen over at Nat.Foot.Post.

arent familiar with any of the ESPN stuff apart from exposure by association. Its really his link to Elway that i thought of ...and not always what he was saying because Elway isnt going to open his heart on these things just maybe how it might make indications of how they might go

anyway it really is a sideshow to his performances on the pitch which we get to see more of this week

neilster · 01-09-2011 10:49am

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Reilly is a hack at best. Hated him when he wrote for SI hate him even more now he went to ESPN. In fact the only page of the ESPN Mag I avoid is the backpage because of him.

Another one of these guys where his so professional opinion is up his hole. The whole Tebow thing is prime example of him trying to turn his opinion of something he said he saw into fact. Not the first time he has done it either.

Would have thought some similar things about his SI time, Several guys stronger from Don Banks, Bucky Brooks, Damon Hack to much missed Dr Z. Funny Peter King can glean some good stuff at times but some stuff takes a flyer ...and the whole Armed Forces stuff....its heartfelt but its too front and centre in my opionion but again its a personal preference. I also like Matt Bowen over at Nat.Foot.Post.

arent familiar with any of the ESPN stuff apart from exposure by association. Its really his link to Elway that i thought of ...and not always what he was saying because Elway isnt going to open his heart on these things just maybe how it might make indications of how they might go

anyway it really is a sideshow to his performances on the pitch which we get to see more of this week

vinny chase · 02-09-2011 10:44am

Brady Quinn was poor last night for the Broncos. Tebow was better, but was against poor quality opposition, and barring one spectacular deep TD pass to Riley, still didn't exactly look like a pocket passer by any stretch.

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