Denver Broncos Thread

Morrisseeee

Drop em all & bring in Weber :eek:

Preseason ending QB Ratings:
Weber 118.7
Tebow 108.3
Orton 104
Quinn 79.1

tallaghtoutlaws

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Drop em all & bring in Weber :eek:

Preseason ending QB Ratings:
Weber 118.7
Tebow 108.3
Orton 104
Quinn 79.1

100% completion as well but he threw only 1 pass in the whole pre-season Having said that it was 89 yards but webber threw it about 10 yards and the WR Riley ran it the rest of the way haha

spiralism

Tebow is 2 on the official depth chart and we announced we weren't extending Kyle Orton's contract any time soon as things stand so Tebow will get his chance eventually, there's no need for him to go yet

To be honest, Orton is probably the better shot for us right now for us to win games and he's the type of player that John Fox loves, he did a lot more with a far more limited QB in Delhomme

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

Tebow is 2 on the official depth chart and we announced we weren't extending Kyle Orton's contract any time soon as things stand so Tebow will get his chance eventually, there's no need for him to go yet

To be honest, Orton is probably the better shot for us right now for us to win games and he's the type of player that John Fox loves, he did a lot more with a far more limited QB in Delhomme

They have both Quinn and Tebow named at 2:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/depth-chart.html



In other words we haven't a clue what we are doing with our backup. Your front office and head coach dont like Tebow's progress how is it you think he will get his shot in Denver?

spiralism

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

They have both Quinn and Tebow named at 2:

http://www.denverbroncos.com/team/depth-chart.html



In other words we haven't a clue what we are doing with our backup. Your front office and head coach dont like Tebow's progress how is it you think he will get his shot in Denver?

Given that 3 QBs can now be active on gameday, it's pretty minor tbh, its better than outright 3rd like he was only two weeks ago

Because they don't think he's ready to start yet doesn't mean they don't like him and want to ship him off, the likes of John Elway and John Fox aren't stupid, they know what he was able to do last year despite obvious limitations but understand he's not the best option right now to win matches. Orton, as i've already said, is the type of QB John Fox loves

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

Given that 3 QBs can now be active on gameday, it's pretty minor tbh, its better than outright 3rd like he was only two weeks ago

Depth is still depth no matter how many QBs you can put on the sideline on a Sunday. If the Pats roll with 3 QBs Hoyer will get the nod over Mallet as he is 2nd on Depth if Brady goes down.

The fact the Broncos have failed to define the 2nd and 3rd spot properly means their is either some sort of strategy as many pundits believe or the Broncos just don't know. But as suggested many reckon that Quinn will be the instant backup to the regular playbook and Tebow on designed or special plays.

Because they don't think he's ready to start yet doesn't mean they don't like him and want to ship him off, the likes of John Elway and John Fox aren't stupid, they know what he was able to do last year despite obvious limitations but understand he's not the best option right now to win matches. Orton, as i've already said, is the type of QB John Fox loves

Come on we have all read the same things over the pre-season. When John Elway and John Fox clearly imply Tebow needs a lot of work and Brady Quinn is working harder the odds are stacked against you as a player. You already said it Tebow isnt the type of QB Fox wants. So are Denver going to Pay Tebow large money to run only situational plays? Or are they going to offload the ideal QBs to their system in Orton and Quinn and roll with Tebow? Orton or Quinn will be Denver's starting QB in 2012 and Tebow will be traded or a FA or warming a bench.

neilster

spiralism wrote: »

Given that 3 QBs can now be active on gameday, it's pretty minor tbh, its better than outright 3rd like he was only two weeks ago

Because they don't think he's ready to start yet doesn't mean they don't like him and want to ship him off, the likes of John Elway and John Fox aren't stupid, they know what he was able to do last year despite obvious limitations but understand he's not the best option right now to win matches. Orton, as i've already said, is the type of QB John Fox loves

I would echo what Tallaght says on this , we seen what happens when the Eagles have their franchise QB signed at a set amount and a very strong QB2 on a large yearly salary , something has to give . Whilst a team may take the circumstances that occur through an injury or inconsistent play and swallow two big salaries in one calender year , they wont repeat this on a next calender year

So in June 2011 Elway & Fox expected Tebow to claim the No.1 role and felt they knew what they had in Orton , a serviceable guy but not their No.1 and who wasnt signed through 2012 anyway , their problems are solved . Tebow proceeded to regress , not pick up defenses or blitzes and created a nightmare scenario, they had paid the wrong guy.

They paid Tebow his $6m bonus and proceeded to watch Orton bet aginst himself and reject a trade and play "lights out" . Tebow regressed to No.3 status and did not have the ability to gain the mantle . Orton has an improved defense also and will surely put himself in a Kevin Kolb position next summer in Free Agency with not all of Miami, Buffalo, Washington and others being capable to pick Andrew Luck next year. Orton holds the cards and inexperience in the front office has maybe made this worse .

The bottom line is Denver will not pay big money for Tebow to run trick plays or redzone offence , he will have to be an NFL calibre starter or alternatively look like a Colt McCoy who with steady improvement appears like going in that direction . By putting Quinn at No2, Denver is saying he is not ready and wont be and the financial imperatives guarantee it

neilster

spiralism wrote: »

Tebow is 2 on the official depth chart and we announced we weren't extending Kyle Orton's contract any time soon as things stand so Tebow will get his chance eventually, there's no need for him to go yet

To be honest, Orton is probably the better shot for us right now for us to win games and he's the type of player that John Fox loves, he did a lot more with a far more limited QB in Delhomme

I like the general way Tebow approaches the game as much as the next guy but i would have to challenge this . Orton has looked as solid as any of the pre-season NFL starters save for the elite guys .

Tebow has not looked solid and camp reports were even more damning and the talk about Brady Quinn isnt just waffle he played quite solid in patches . This could not be said for Tebow . Denver have not re-signed Orton cos as recently as June they were trading him, they booked the flight for chrissakes....they are waiting to see how he goes ...but this has no direct bearing or connection with Tebow .

If Tebow was traded they would probably still wait and see...like Kolb in 2009 ...they can franchise Orton, they can sign him later in the year but this works both ways , if Orton repeats 3500 yards passing and 30 touchdowns ( as he has done for 2 straight years) he will start in the NFL in 2012 and if he got Matt Schaub money somewhere he may not be in Denver and then what do they do ?

neilster

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

He wont do it but lets face no team will take a hybrid Tebow over a guy who is an actual HB/FB/TE. You change his position he still becomes a project player because he has to learn and adjust to that new position.

Well with his salary expectations and with the history of how these things have gone down , im thinking he gets cut he hits waivers (and all depending on him wanting to change positions)

He then tries as a QBack with someone if they pick him on that basis and maybe converts when his QBack opportunities have disappeared and maybe at the league minimum. If he was a HB/FB/TE and played in camp to get in as position 2/3 on the depth chart at any of these , he would be getting a start, the rest would be up to him

spiralism

Originally from the broncos county forums, makes for very interesting reading:

Lost in all of our fan hoopla about the idea of these QBs competing to start was the inevitable fact that Tebow was not going to start. No chance, was never going to happen. And here's the factual contract data as to why:

Written into Tebow's contract is this qualifier "Tebow's contract DOUBLES from 11.25 million to 22.50 million if he plays 55% of the time in TWO of his first three seasons".

Meanwhile, Orton's contract this season? 9 Million, 6 million guaranteed. So, since no team would trade for Orton at franchise player money, and since Orton refused to renegotiate his contract, the only remaining option was to cut him and pay the 6 million. We weren't going to bench him and pay 9 million.

So, this was the dilemma, pay Orton millions and millions to not play AND double Tebow's contract, or keep Tebow on the bench and not hitting escalators while getting something for the 6 million you owe Orton no matter what.

And you have to wonder about Tebow's future here due to his contract. A contract signed before the rookie wage scale. If Tebow plays 70% of the snaps in 2013, his contract doubles to 22.5 million and if the team makes multiple playoffs under Tebow and he achieves leaguewide awards his contract triples to 33 million.

Meanwhile, the #1 overall selection this year, Cam Newton's contract? 4 Years, 22 million. Andrew Luck is looking at the same deal. And there are 3-4 other QBs likely to go in the Top 20 in the next draft for much cheaper deals in the strongest QB draft in quite some time.

And what about Brady Quinn you might ask? Well, if he plays 70% of our snaps, his contract goes from 700,000 to 6.6 million due to a 5.9 million escalator bonus.

Do you think this was a fair QB competition? Hell no. Orton was never not going to start. Not with Bowlen in a financial crises and unable to even make waiver claims because of financial concerns. Let alone not even being competitive on the open free agent market. We weren't going to pay Orton millions not to play.

We have this big Quinn versus Tebow versus Orton debate, and there probably was a true battle for the #2 spot (which we laughingly refused to name), but there was never a competition for the #1 spot. Finances dictated that. Period.

So if you wonder why Tebow or Quinn didn't play with the starters, or Orton with the 2nd team, this is why. The team knew what direction it was going months and months ago despite telling us it was a competition. Lying has been standard for the front office this offseason despite declarations of openness. Sure they tried to trade Orton's albatross of a contract, but no team was taking that unless Kyle re-negotiated and he made it clear he would not absent a pricy long term deal. Nobody in the NFL wants to give him that. And as for all the chatter about "Tebow being terrible", almost guaranteed it was planted by the front office to try and justify to fans why he wasn't given a chance to start.

Too bad for them the contract information was made public. A little research sure sheds some light on an awful lot of questions and confusing bait and switch comments by EFX.



Links:

Tebow contract info:
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_15667056


Orton contract info:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp10/news/story?id=5478172

Brady Quinn contract info:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_14676213?source=rss
__________________

EFX = Elway, Fox and Brian Xanders btw.

spiralism

and now after last night we have a serious QB controversy, though John Fox will probably stick with Orton to the bitter end if his attitude to another mediocre QB in Delhomme at Carolina is anything to go by

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

and now after last night we have a serious QB controversy, though John Fox will probably stick with Orton to the bitter end if his attitude to another mediocre QB in Delhomme at Carolina is anything to go by

As a Broncos fan are you blaming Orton for last night? Your o-line were rubbish last night and on a couple of occasions when Orton made good passes they were called back for holding. Orton made some bad passes but so did Tom Brady last night. Also the Broncos inability to run the ball is putting far too much pressure on your QB.

42 attempts by Orton last night shows they were depending way too much on their passing game. Learn to run the ball to 38 yards total for your running backs is shocking at best and even teams that dont run that often and win games in the air get more yards than that.

Quinn or Tebow wouldn't have done any better in there at all. I really can't believe Broncos fans are when it doesn't go their way will throw Orton under the bus.

spiralism

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

As a Broncos fan are you blaming Orton for last night? Your o-line were rubbish last night and on a couple of occasions when Orton made good passes they were called back for holding. Orton made some bad passes but so did Tom Brady last night. Also the Broncos inability to run the ball is putting far too much pressure on your QB.

42 attempts by Orton last night shows they were depending way too much on their passing game. Learn to run the ball to 38 yards total for your running backs is shocking at best and even teams that dont run that often and win games in the air get more yards than that.

Quinn or Tebow wouldn't have done any better in there at all. I really can't believe Broncos fans are when it doesn't go their way will throw Orton under the bus.

Yes. See the fumble in the 4th while deep in raiders territory, it was at the jamarcus russel level of utter shíte. That and the pick late in the 1st half when driving for a late score (raiders nailed a 63 yard fg as a result in a 3 point game). And the fact that we scored ten offensive points and one offensive TD which came with 2 mins left in the third quarter. This despite starting on the raiders 15 at one point early in the first. Pretty damning

Tebow would at least have ran around and made a few things happen despite his limitations, look at what cam newton did despite the same so called limitation! there was no way he could have done much worse, he led us to 23 points against a better raiders defence last year.

Our offensive line was crap and moreno is a bust yeah, but we could still have won that game regardless...

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

Yes. See the fumble in the 4th while deep in raiders territory, it was at the jamarcus russel level of utter shíte. That and the pick late in the 1st half when driving for a late score (raiders nailed a 63 yard fg as a result in a 3 point game). And the fact that we scored ten offensive points and one offensive TD which came with 2 mins left in the third quarter. This despite starting on the raiders 15 at one point early in the first. Pretty damning

Tebow would at least have ran around and made a few things happen despite his limitations, look at what cam newton did despite the same so called limitation! there was no way he could have done much worse, he led us to 23 points against a better raiders defence last year.

Our offensive line was crap and moreno is a bust yeah, but we could still have won that game regardless...

Ah here you not what you are starting to sound like Eagles fans did when they wanted McNabb out. Anything that went wrong in a game became his fault. Ridiculous to think even after admitting your O-line and rushing game were **** that you would lay the full blame on a QB. Wait til you see Quinn or Tebow will get the same shot with that ****e offense and fail also. Who will you then turn to? Andrew Luck in the Draft. You have bigger fixes needed than QB.

spiralism

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Ah here you not what you are starting to sound like Eagles fans did when they wanted McNabb out. Anything that went wrong in a game became his fault. Ridiculous to think even after admitting your O-line and rushing game were **** that you would lay the full blame on a QB. Wait til you see Quinn or Tebow will get the same shot with that ****e offense and fail also. Who will you then turn to? Andrew Luck in the Draft. You have bigger fixes needed than QB.

Tebow would have opened up the run game to some extent at least because of his scrambling ability and his leadership skills far outstrip Ortons non existent ones. There is not a clutch bone in Kyle Orton's body and he is utterly mediocre. look at his stats on 3rd down, in the 4th quarter, when there is less than 7 points in the margin... stat padding against prevent defences with a big lead masks the bigger picture as far as he is concerned

as for that game, well if it weren't for that ridiculous fumble we would at least have tied the game with a fg, instead the raiders marched down the pitch after the turnover and scored... 10-14 point swing at any rate.

tallaghtoutlaws

You know I really do hope Fox drops Orton and puts Tebow in and Tebow also then struggles in that offense and not because I hate Tebow this time round but because I hate to see fans turn on a QB as a scapegoat when things dont go their way. Its fickle at best and you will never be happy until Tebow gets in but if he fails you will turn on him just as quick.

I can see it now when Tebow fails " Ah sure why did we draft him knowing he struggles in a pro setup and his passing is flawed and he couldn't even beat out Quinn at the start of the season, typical coaching staff getting in wrong" etc etc

spiralism

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

You know I really do hope Fox drops Orton and puts Tebow in and Tebow also then struggles in that offense and not because I hate Tebow this time round but because I hate to see fans turn on a QB as a scapegoat when things dont go their way. Its fickle at best and you will never be happy until Tebow gets in but if he fails you will turn on him just as quick.

I can see it now when Tebow fails " Ah sure why did we draft him knowing he struggles in a pro setup and his passing is flawed and he couldn't even beat out Quinn at the start of the season, typical coaching staff getting in wrong" etc etc

If he fails, he fails. At least we'll know then and can go for Luck or Barkley. The route we're on now leads only to more futility and uncertainty, i'll go bananas if we start orton all year, do useless and then pass on luck and co because we don't know what we have with Tebow, only for Tebow then to struggle next year

vinny chase

Orton couldn't do anything last night because he had his guards being pushed back under his nose on almost every play by Seymour, Houston & Kelly.

I counted so many passes where Orton put the ball on the money for guys like David Willis & even Brandon Lloyd a couple of times and they dropped very catchable balls.

The penalties on offense absolutely killed him too.

He has no run support whatsoever.

I think he's a much better player than Jason Campbell.

Stev_o

Denver have no run game. Not only that but their O Line is atrocious. There seemed to be lack of hustle by the WR corps last night they ran their route and put their hands on their hips and let the play die. Really putting Tebow on last night would of been a disaster of epic portions. The reason they lost was because they had NO run game. Mean come on Oakland were poor passing but what they could consistently do is run the ball effectively.

If it's pissing rain and your play selection is 90% pass and your trailing the chances of you winning are quite low.

spiralism

Stev_o wrote: »

Denver have no run game. Not only that but their O Line is atrocious. There seemed to be lack of hustle by the WR corps last night they ran their route and put their hands on their hips and let the play die. Really putting Tebow on last night would of been a disaster of epic portions. The reason they lost was because they had NO run game. Mean come on Oakland were poor passing but what they could consistently do is run the ball effectively.

If it's pissing rain and your play selection is 90% pass and your trailing the chances of you winning are quite low.

Tebow would open the run game up through his own scrambling ability and would have been able to escape pressure a bit better than orton would have. Due to the fact that he's actually a good leader, he wouldn't allow the WRs to put forward such poor effort.

Orton meanwhile is as mobile as a sack of spuds, gets knocked down by a small breeze and is a poor leader, as evidence by lack of hustle and stupid play on the offensive side

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

Tebow would open the run game up through his own scrambling ability and would have been able to escape pressure a bit better than orton would have. Due to the fact that he's actually a good leader, he wouldn't allow the WRs to put forward such poor effort.

Tebow will open up the run game slightly. I don't know why you think that will take pressure off your passing game.

Orton meanwhile is as mobile as a sack of spuds, gets knocked down by a small breeze and is a poor leader, as evidence by lack of hustle and stupid play on the offensive side

Ah here now you are taken the piss take off your bias blinker for a moment. Orton is not a bad leader and again your offensive coordinators chose to throw the ball on 42 occasions.

Blaming Orton for the poor offense is nonsense at best. 300+ yards he had. What more can you ask for a guy who was under that much pressure. Brady and Rodgers and Manning would struggle under the same pressure if their run game fell asunder especially if they are asked to throw so much to try win when they are getting so much pressure.

As I said typical Broncos fans looking for a scapegoat.

Chucky the tree

spiralism wrote: »

Yes. See the fumble in the 4th while deep in raiders territory, it was at the jamarcus russel level of utter shíte. That and the pick late in the 1st half when driving for a late score (raiders nailed a 63 yard fg as a result in a 3 point game). And the fact that we scored ten offensive points and one offensive TD which came with 2 mins left in the third quarter. This despite starting on the raiders 15 at one point early in the first. Pretty damning

Tebow would at least have ran around and made a few things happen despite his limitations, look at what cam newton did despite the same so called limitation! there was no way he could have done much worse, he led us to 23 points against a better raiders defence last year.

Our offensive line was crap and moreno is a bust yeah, but we could still have won that game regardless...

That Jano FG at the end of the half was far more down to vickerson being a complete tool and getting a 15 yard penatly called against him. Without those 15 yards we'd have just taken a knee and seen out the half.

spiralism wrote: »

Tebow would open the run game up through his own scrambling ability and would have been able to escape pressure a bit better than orton would have. Due to the fact that he's actually a good leader, he wouldn't allow the WRs to put forward such poor effort.

Orton meanwhile is as mobile as a sack of spuds, gets knocked down by a small breeze and is a poor leader, as evidence by lack of hustle and stupid play on the offensive side

I've heard of reports that the players wanted Orton to start all along. When you can't do the very basics of the QB job then no player will want you starting on the team no matter how much of a great leader/motivational speaker you are. Give Tebow a set of poms poms and let him do his thing on the sideline, you'll do alot better then giving him a playbook and the keys to your offense.

eagle eye

Lets be fair lads, Orton has never looked good anywhere except under Josh McDaniels. There has to be question marks over him at the present time. He has never looked good when under pressure.

If he has one more bad game then Tebow will get his opportunity because the fans will dictate it.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Lets be fair lads, Orton has never looked good anywhere except under Josh McDaniels. There has to be question marks over him at the present time. He has never looked good when under pressure.

If he has one more bad game then Tebow will get his opportunity because the fans will dictate it.

To be fair my arse. If you want to be fair lets look at Ortons history:

2005: Only started with the Bears as a rookie because Rex Chokeman got injured did an ok job in a bears team on a downhill spiral.
2006: Orton right put back on bench to learn the game
2007: Again saw bench as the Bears believed going with experience was the better option.
2008: Finally got his chance and beat out Grossman had a decent season and the bears decided to play him on a bad ankle at the back end of the season and it was the worse thing they did.

So lets sum up his Bears Career. They never really worked with him and given him a fair shot. Tebow fans remind you of somebody? So of course it helped him going to a system that wanted him but lets look at that shall we.

2009 - present Josh McDaniels believes in Orton and works with him and Orton has an amazing season as the playbook the Broncos and McDaniels used suited his style. Then McDaniels cant put a good team together and wrecks the Broncos and until now Broncos fans begin to throw Orton under the bus because wait for it they traded up for Tim Tebow.

So to sum up Broncos fans like to throw Orton under the bus because they have sand in their vagis about starting Tebow the almighty one. When is realism the Broncos problems go a lot deeper than Kyle Orton and he isnt the problem. To say its all McDaniels is fooking nonsense at best. Orton is a good QB and has prove that with his numbers even last season. He can only win games when the team around him do there job also.

But wait Tebow fanboys who could care less about the broncos also jump on the Tebow wagon and blame Orton when Tebow gets drafted by Denver.

eagle eye

But what say you then about TB throwing 50 tds, will he ever match that? What about Cassel and his 3700 yard season, will he ever match it? Its plain to see that McDaniels system is QB friendly but even then the lowest QB rating of any starting QB under Josh is Orton.

Le King

Denver are in serious transformation and are rebuilding what McD destroyed. Orton makes far too many bad throws at critical times. Bronco's fans want Tebow in there and won't be assured of any other outcome until he gets a shot. Fox needs to put Tebow in there. Let all the QB rubbish go away and that will only happen if Tebow is given a good shot.

Orton didn't throw down the field yesterday. He set the Raiders defense up nicely and before the game I thought the Raiders were a worse outfit than last season so I was expecting a Denver win. He also was far too predictable. But it's Tebow time. Orton isn't going to cut it in this Bronco's team.

Although I don't have faith in Fox dropping a 'veteran' QB. By week 4-6 if Orton is still in there and doesn't impress then either Fox drops him or the Bronco's fans won't forgive him. The boos will just get worse and worse.

It probably wouldn't be as bad in Denver if the Raiders weren't such a badly coached team with huge discipline problems.

tl;dr: Broncomaniacs have lost faith in Orton. It's Tebow time.

tallaghtoutlaws

See the common thread here. Had Tebow not been drafted by the Broncos, Orton wouldn't be under fire right now and Broncos fans wouldn't be throwing him under the bus.

Plenty of coaches in the game have said that Tebow is miles behind Orton when it comes to being a starting QB but yet Broncos fans think they are the experts. The day fans pick the teams is the day the NFL falls apart.

Eagle eye the sad thing is you as a Pats fan should know about QB battles. After all we all complained when Bledsoe lost his spot to Brady but yet we trusted the head coach. Seems the Bronco's fans don't give a fook what the experts think.

Sad part is if Tebow tanks you will have bronco fans throwing him under the bus and you will find Orton at another team slinging TD passes and happy.

Le King

Also there is enough evidence that Orton should be benched by now for constantly crumbling under pressure but a fit Peyton Manning wouldn't be a million times better in some of the situations Orton was in with the OL being pushed badly on every play yesterday.

Not a big fan of Tebow but a lot of Brono's fan are going with him atm. Tebow will be the starting QB by week 5 IMO.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

But what say you then about TB throwing 50 tds, will he ever match that? What about Cassel and his 3700 yard season, will he ever match it? Its plain to see that McDaniels system is QB friendly but even then the lowest QB rating of any starting QB under Josh is Orton.

As for this come on really trying to compare Brady to Orton? And Cassel we aren't taking about Cassel here but I do think he is better than Orton. Not by much though. And remember the weapons Cassel had to throw to compared to Orton to be fair. :rolleyes:

tallaghtoutlaws

Le King wrote: »

Also there is enough evidence that Orton should be benched by now for constantly crumbling under pressure but a fit Peyton Manning wouldn't be a million times better in some of the situations Orton was in with the OL being pushed badly on every play yesterday.

So help me out you are saying Orton should be offloaded but even a fit Peyton Manning would have struggled in the same environment yesterday? How does that make any sense. Either you agree that Orton couldn't have done any better than he did yesterday due to the lack of protection or you are contradicting yourself.

spiralism

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Tebow will open up the run game slightly. I don't know why you think that will take pressure off your passing game.



Ah here now you are taken the piss take off your bias blinker for a moment. Orton is not a bad leader and again your offensive coordinators chose to throw the ball on 42 occasions.

Blaming Orton for the poor offense is nonsense at best. 300+ yards he had. What more can you ask for a guy who was under that much pressure. Brady and Rodgers and Manning would struggle under the same pressure if their run game fell asunder especially if they are asked to throw so much to try win when they are getting so much pressure.

As I said typical Broncos fans looking for a scapegoat.

Stat padding, meaningless yards. QBR of 72, 1 passing TD in 42 passes and 2 awful turnovers. Choking the game away on a go ahead drive didnt do us much favours. I have the funny feeling that Brady, Rodgers or Manning wouldnt do that in a similar situation. Manning has never had a very good run game, has often carried scrub wrs and has often played behind subpar olines. Rodgers got 11-5 and a wildcard defeat to arizona two years ago in GB with no oline at all and won a superbowl last year with a generally weak run game and tons of injuries, i dont buy that tbh.

We have an unknown sitting on the bench and its highly likely this season is done for from the offset with a good QB draft to follow. We are wasting our time grafting for 5-6 wins at best with captain checkdown under centre when we can at least take a relatively low risk gamble on tebow. I mean, if it pays off, then we have a great player and if it doesnt, we don't and will get the opportunity to draft a great QB. simples.

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

Stat padding, meaningless yards. QBR of 72, 1 passing TD in 42 passes and 2 awful turnovers. Choking the game away on a go ahead drive didnt do us much favours. I have the funny feeling that Brady, Rodgers or Manning wouldnt do that in a similar situation. Manning has never had a very good run game, has often carried scrub wrs and has often played behind subpar olines. Rodgers got 11-5 and a wildcard defeat to arizona two years ago in GB with no oline at all and won a superbowl last year with a generally weak run game and tons of injuries, i dont buy that tbh.

Ah here for fook sake you cant compare Orton to either Brady or Rodgers or Manning regardless of what WR corp they have had. Those guys are elite QBs Orton isnt and neither will Quinn or Tebow be either. If this is your defense argument to try make Orton look worse and trying to deflect away from the real issues well then you are barking up the wrong tree.

I never said Orton was elite :rolleyes:

We have an unknown sitting on the bench and its highly likely this season is done for from the offset with a good QB draft to follow. We are wasting our time grafting for 5-6 wins at best with captain checkdown under centre when we can at least take a relatively low risk gamble on tebow. I mean, if it pays off, then we have a great player and if it doesnt, we don't and will get the opportunity to draft a great QB. simples.

Unknown? He has played games for the Broncos last year and shown what he can do. FFS you swear Tebow was the messiah and has never played before. But if it doesn't work will you throw him under the bus and whinge? Yes you will I guarantee it.

Its hilarious where you argument is going to be honest. Trying to discredit Orton by comparing him to the 3 best QBs in the NFL.

Chucky the tree

It might sound like a "simples" decision for you Spiral when you can just say "hey, If tebow tanks and we do horrible this season then we can jut draft a top QB next year so it's all rosey" but John Fox has his job to consider, and so do all of the Denver players. Fox will want to put out the best QB who he feels can win him the most games, and that's still clearly Orton and Fox will rightfully do that for the majority of the season.

eagle eye

You mean its still clearly Orton in your opinion and maybe John Fox's opinion. It doesn't mean your or he is right.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

You mean its still clearly Orton in your opinion and maybe John Fox's opinion. It doesn't mean your or he is right.

No because Broncos fans and Tebow fans and you are right yeah?

spiralism

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Ah here for fook sake you cant compare Orton to either Brady or Rodgers or Manning regardless of what WR corp they have had. Those guys are elite QBs Orton isnt and neither will Quinn or Tebow be either. If this is your defense argument to try make Orton look worse and trying to deflect away from the real issues well then you are barking up the wrong tree.

I never said Orton was elite :rolleyes:



Unknown? He has played games for the Broncos last year and shown what he can do. FFS you swear Tebow was the messiah and has never played before. But if it doesn't work will you throw him under the bus and whinge? Yes you will I guarantee it.

Its hilarious where you argument is going to be honest. Trying to discredit Orton by comparing him to the 3 best QBs in the NFL.

Well no, but they're the 3 QBs you mentioned earlier. But would you compare him to the likes of romo, eli and cutler, 3 good but not great QBs... probably not... therefore hes average. We're a bad team, we know what to expect as a result by combining a bad team with an average QB so why go with it instead of taking the leap of faith on the fella who's already proven he can win games on his own? not saying hes the next steve young or anything but he could at least run around and make a few things happen on this depressing shíte team regardless, a la vince young in his first season

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

No because Broncos fans and Tebow fans and you are right yeah?

well our front office, or that of many teams in the league for that matter, is far from infallible, see the 2009 nfl draft where we wasted each and every selection as example of that.

Not saying we're certainly right, but we're not definitely wrong either

Le King

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

So help me out you are saying Orton should be offloaded but even a fit Peyton Manning would have struggled in the same environment yesterday? How does that make any sense. Either you agree that Orton couldn't have done any better than he did yesterday due to the lack of protection or you are contradicting yourself.

I'm talking about Orton not doing it for a while now. Obviously there is a huge reaction to the game against the Raiders.


Also comparing the QB battle between Brady and Bledsoe v Orton and Tebow is crap. If Orton had the stats Bledsoe had we wouldn't be having this conversation. I don't remember many Pat's fans being up in arms when Brady turned around that winless streak to beat the Colts and the Jets. You can't compare the two. I remember most of the press in Boston were pro-Brady.

So I don't see why you need to shove this pro-Orton stuff down peoples throat. You can argue all you want about Orton, but your talking shíte if you think he is the right option for Denver atm and going forward.

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

You mean its still clearly Orton in your opinion and maybe John Fox's opinion. It doesn't mean your or he is right.

It pretty much does to be honest. I think only Tebow and his parents would claim he was the best QB to be starting for the Broncos if they want to win games.

Le King

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It pretty much does to be honest. I think only Tebow and his parents would claim he was the best QB to be starting for the Broncos if they want to win games.

Wouldn't change the fact that Orton clearly isn't the answer either.

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

Well no, but they're the 3 QBs you mentioned earlier.

Yes but I said they would struggle not fail.

But would you compare him to the likes of romo, eli and cutler, 3 good but not great QBs... probably not... therefore hes average.

Oh so wait every QB under these guys are average? No I dont think so there is another level of guys who are good and these are guys who can perform when the full package is there. Orton, Cassel and Fitzpatrick to name 3. I would then have the average class and then the pure muck class.

We're a bad team, we know what to expect as a result by combining a bad team with an average QB so why go with it instead of taking the leap of faith on the fella who's already proven he can win games on his own? not saying hes the next steve young or anything but he could at least run around and make a few things happen on this depressing shíte team regardless, a la vince young in his first season

Oh so now you saying the Broncos are a bad team? Changing your tune much? And now its because he is an average QB in your eyes and thats why he isnt working out. So its no longer his fault then for the losses but the fact he is an average player on a bad team and because of the bad team he will never do anything?

Oh ok so its ok to create scapegoats when the guy is average and the team are sh1t? Got to blame someone right?

Chucky the tree

Le King wrote: »

Wouldn't change the fact that Orton clearly isn't the answer either.

He's the best answer they have at the moment though.

Le King

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Le King wrote: »

Wouldn't change the fact that Orton clearly isn't the answer either.

He's the best answer they have at the moment though.

Maybe, I don't know. But Fox ain't going to have many friends keeping him there when so many Bronco fans want Tebow in there.

tallaghtoutlaws

Le King wrote: »

I'm talking about Orton not doing it for a while now. Obviously there is a huge reaction to the game against the Raiders.


Also comparing the QB battle between Brady and Bledsoe v Orton and Tebow is crap. If Orton had the stats Bledsoe had we wouldn't be having this conversation. I don't remember many Pat's fans being up in arms when Brady turned around that winless streak to beat the Colts and the Jets. You can't compare the two. I remember most of the press in Boston were pro-Brady.

So I don't see why you need to shove this pro-Orton stuff down peoples throat. You can argue all you want about Orton, but your talking shíte if you think he is the right option for Denver atm and going forward.

You completely missed my point about the Bledsoe/Brady thing. It had nothing to do with performance but to do with Fan reaction after it. In fact when Bledsoe was passed fit many Pats fans called for his return so he could finish out the season even though Brady was doing a good job. I was poking at EE because of the knee jerk reactions of us Pats fans thinking we knew best and who should start. Fans aren't always right.

Chucky the tree

Le King wrote: »

Maybe, I don't know. But Fox ain't going to have many friends keeping him there when so many Bronco fans want Tebow in there.

It's not up to the bronco fans to decide if he keeps his job or not. Like with nearly all NFL HC jobs it comes down to wins and very little to do with fans opinion.

tallaghtoutlaws

Le King wrote: »

So I don't see why you need to shove this pro-Orton stuff down peoples throat. You can argue all you want about Orton, but your talking shíte if you think he is the right option for Denver atm and going forward.

Same could be said for you and spiral being anti Orton. And Im talking sh!te am I? :rolleyes: Someone doesn't go with the grain and challenges Broncos fans they have to retort to calling people's opinions sh1te? Good man

Le King

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

You completely missed my point about the Bledsoe/Brady thing. It had nothing to do with performance but to do with Fan reaction after it. In fact when Bledsoe was passed fit many Pats fans called for his return so he could finish out the season even though Brady was doing a good job. I was poking at EE because of the knee jerk reactions of us Pats fans thinking we knew best and who should start. Fans aren't always right.

Yeah, correct. I also know a few Denver fans who don't want Tebow either. I don't think Tebow is a great QB at all. In fact, he'd be eaten up IMO. But Orton isn't a good QB either. But if the team continues to fail it won't harm trying him out. Denver are a long way off being a respectable team atm.

Le King

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's not up to the bronco fans to decide if he keeps his job or not. Like with nearly all NFL HC jobs it comes down to wins and very little to do with fans opinion.

But this team looks like winning nothing anyway. Eventually Fox will give in if this continues.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Same could be said for you and spiral being anti Orton. And Im talking sh!te am I? :rolleyes: Someone doesn't go with the grain and challenges Broncos fans they have to retort to calling people's opinions sh1te? Good man

I'm not just anti-Orton, I'm anti-Tebow too. I'm not a Bronco's fan, I'm a Giants fans. Don't take it too personally. I agree with a lot of your content. Just not on Orton

mikemac

This thread is realy busy in the early hours

Don't think I've posted on this since July, anyway

Broncos look to me much the same as last season

The offensive line is poor and while Clady did a solid job, the interior got mauled last night. Well when you are up against Richard Seymour and Tommy Kelly, it's not suprising.
Seymour doesn't have flashy stats but he's one of the top at his position in the league, so underrated by many.

And the OL struggles affect the run game. Terrible running game last night and on a rainy night that's what you should be doing. McGahee and Moreno are fine players but it's not clicking yet

I've confidence John Fox is the man to sort this and sort the defense but it's takes time especially after the state that team was left in by the last head coach.

So Orton just like last season puts up big passing yards but that's down to chasing the game and a lot comes in garbage time.

Fans see Tebow for at most sixty minutes a week, the coaches see the players six to seven days a week.

Right now Orton is the starter and the best player to bring about wins.
The priority is the running game and defence, plugging in Tebow isn't going to turn around the team. Pump up the teammates and franchise maybe but he's still not an NFL QB, if he ever will be

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He's the best answer they have at the moment though.

The statement of fact sense that I get from your posts is just so annoying. Especially coming from somebody that has been so wrong in the past.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

No because Broncos fans and Tebow fans and you are right yeah?

I didn't say that. I personally believe he will make it as a QB in the NFL for reasons I've stated many times. I've never claimed to be the football guru who knows all though. I have my belief on the matter but its my opinion, the statement of fact attitude of some posters on here is just annoying. And some of them probably never had a football in their hands and probably were never at a real game.