Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

California Dreamer · 23-10-2020 6:51am

Jack1985 wrote: »

Already heard one of the ME3 will be exiting,

Can you say that its not EK or QR?

TRANQUILLO · 23-10-2020 7:12pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Don't think that would be a wild assumption unfortunately. Already heard one of the ME3 will be exiting, although haven’t publicly confirmed this intention yet. These routes won't be back quick certainly not in 2-5 years. Employees will have to be returned, re-trained, aircraft brought back from storage etc... nothing will be snapping back.

The purge begins.

One of the ME3 made all of their Dublin based engineers etc redundant in Q2 2020.

road_high · 23-10-2020 8:19pm

Was in Dealz today and it’s interesting- they’re clearly selling a ton of the stuff (sweets/chocolates) that you’d usually only pick up in the airports “Travel Exclusives”. Shows the fall off in travel- they’ve obviously had to redirect all the stock they can’t sell due to the huge drop off in travel

L1011 · 23-10-2020 10:05pm

Pernod Ricard were down 64% in 'global travel retail' YOY. I'm surprised its even that low of a drop. That won't be turning up for cheapo resale as its entirely shelf stable product; although you could end up seeing it in normal offos.

john boye · 23-10-2020 10:34pm

road_high wrote: »

Was in Dealz today and it’s interesting- they’re clearly selling a ton of the stuff (sweets/chocolates) that you’d usually only pick up in the airports “Travel Exclusives”. Shows the fall off in travel- they’ve obviously had to redirect all the stock they can’t sell due to the huge drop off in travel

Saw them myself last week and they were a LOT cheaper than they go for in the duty-free!

road_high · 23-10-2020 10:39pm

john boye wrote: »

Saw them myself last week and they were a LOT cheaper than they go for in the duty-free!

Yes I thought the same- at lesat half the price or less!! Must be some profit margin on it at airports

Locker10a · 25-10-2020 6:32pm

Quite a kick for the industry here when it’s already crippled

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/transmission-of-covid-19-on-flight-into-ireland-linked-to-59-infections-1.4390728

Hotblack Desiato · 25-10-2020 6:44pm

So maybe not entirely safe to be on a plane after all...

EchoIndia · 25-10-2020 6:47pm

Locker10a wrote: »

Quite a kick for the industry here when it’s already crippled

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/transmission-of-covid-19-on-flight-into-ireland-linked-to-59-infections-1.4390728

It occurred in the summer, which the IT omitted to say.
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.42.2001624

Locker10a · 25-10-2020 6:55pm

EchoIndia wrote: »

It occurred in the summer, which the IT omitted to say.
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.42.2001624

They mentioned it was when we had a very low incidence rate, so you could easily figure that out, but I’m not sure when it occurred is of much importance, it’s the fact it did and is in the media now, It won’t exactly be inspiring confidence for future travel without a vaccine

Jack1985 · 25-10-2020 8:57pm

Locker10a wrote: »

Quite a kick for the industry here when it’s already crippled

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/transmission-of-covid-19-on-flight-into-ireland-linked-to-59-infections-1.4390728

A bus that travels from Cavan (R 983-25/10/20) to Tipperary (R 124-25/10/20) should be considered high risk as the incidence rates between both localities vary substantially, the onward trajectory for virus spread then becomes a waiting game.

However, using the above context, a flight with 49 passengers from multiple jurisdictions, lands and disease spreads to up to 59 people within the study profile.

No data is provided into what jurisdictions the 49 passengers are travelling from or movement in the cabin, lots of info regarding time spent in the terminal are provided but for some reason it didn't seem appropriate to the HPSC to provide data on countries and disease prevalence thereof for the jurisdictions that were concerned. See conclusions here, https://www.eurosurveillance.org/docserver/fulltext/eurosurveillance/25/42/eurosurv-25-42-3.pdf?expires=1603656309&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=B2905DBF246F16531BD4B6FA936AB52E

When you do not mitigate risk by not testing or actually focus efforts on area's which are high risk this should be no surprise to anyone. Certainly, the blame is not an industry, that seems to be misguided focus with multiple examples in Ireland for some bizarre reason varying from travel to hospitality and others. I suppose not being able to keep up with basic contact tracing can lead to such blunt instrument approaches.

Thankfully the EU use a wide analysis to determine risk and not general aspersions which will be controlled by the ECDC Nov 8th forward.

25-10-2020 9:06pm

Well said. The Authorities may be completely incompetent in their handling of the crisis but the propaganda to bolster their position and distract people from questioning their competency continues unabated. Other Countries are handling the crisis better.

Tenger · 25-10-2020 9:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well said. The Authorities may be completely incompetent in their handling of the crisis but the propaganda to bolster their position and distract people from questioning their competency continues unabated. Other Countries are handling the crisis better.

And other countries are handling the crisis less well

25-10-2020 10:00pm

Tenger wrote: »

And other countries are handling the crisis less well

...because everyone looks to the those who are doing less well for example???

billy few mates · 25-10-2020 11:51pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well said. The Authorities may be completely incompetent in their handling of the crisis but the propaganda to bolster their position and distract people from questioning their competency continues unabated. Other Countries are handling the crisis better.

Which countries..?

kona · 26-10-2020 12:15am

Deleted User wrote: »

...because everyone looks to the those who are doing less well for example???

Nobody is handling this well to be fair. Its fairly unprecedented so some slack needs to be given, the slack is getting shorter now that its apparent our nphet and government did **** all.during the summer to prepare for the inevitable rise in autumn/winter/post 1st lockdown/schools opening.

smurfjed · 26-10-2020 2:28am

billy few mates wrote: »

Which countries..?

Saudi Arabia

Presently about 400 cases a day for around the last 3 weeks, masks and social distance required with a non-compliance fine. Have operated domestic since July and about 40 international destinations. PCR test required for inbound travel, 4 COVID APPS in use. Tests available within 24 hours, results within 12. Society opened.

California Dreamer · 26-10-2020 10:29am

smurfjed wrote: »

Saudi Arabia

Presently about 400 cases a day for around the last 3 weeks, masks and social distance required with a non-compliance fine. Have operated domestic since July and about 40 international destinations. PCR test required for inbound travel, 4 COVID APPS in use. Tests available within 24 hours, results within 12. Society opened.

Not bad for a country that lives in constant fear of severe consequences of not obeying the rules! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Tenger · 26-10-2020 1:24pm

And that leads to our current situation here;
Non-compliance. Personally know people who have travelled abroad to 'Green list' countries and isolated for 14 days on their return.
But then talking to some mates in EI they tell me about flights to Faro and Athens were they are like prison guards having yo monitor mask wearing among the passengers. If someone can't be bothered to wear a mask for the time it takes to travel abroad, the chances are they won't bother with self isolation on return.

I've always been in favour of keeping air travel going but with controls. 7 months later and we are still using pen and paper to provide tracing info.
At this stage (with our 6 weeks of level 5) I want to see all outbound passengers providing personal details to the HSE before travel. And similar upon arrival.
I want to see testing before departure or upon arrival. Preferably with 24-36 hour quarantine until the results are back.
We will quickly see which travel is "essential" in that case.

It's draconian but unfortunately the behaviour of the few havespoiked it for the rest it us.

mikel97 · 26-10-2020 1:45pm

Tenger wrote: »

And that leads to our current situation here;
Non-compliance. Personally know people who have travelled abroad to 'Green list' countries and isolated for 14 days on their return.
But then talking to some mates in EI they tell me about flights to Faro and Athens were they are like prison guards having yo monitor mask wearing among the passengers. If someone can't be bothered to wear a mask for the time it takes to travel abroad, the chances are they won't bother with self isolation on return.

I've always been in favour of keeping air travel going but with controls. 7 months later and we are still using pen and paper to provide tracing info.
At this stage (with our 6 weeks of level 5) I want to see all outbound passengers providing personal details to the HSE before travel. And similar upon arrival.
I want to see testing before departure or upon arrival. Preferably with 24-36 hour quarantine until the results are back.
We will quickly see which travel is "essential" in that case.

It's draconian but unfortunately the behaviour of the few havespoiked it for the rest it us.

Crazy Ideas. Its a Virus it doesn't care about who when and where. Its there everybody got to learn to live with it just like any other affliction. Air Travel isn't responsible nor are people travelling. Remember your government only make recommendations and Hse well its a joke, couple of old country women taking notes on the back of a fag packet won't do any good. Testing no point b4 departure, I've personally had quite a few on my travels, never had to wait more than 15 minutes for my negative results. Ireland 24-36 hour lol it a joke. And who will pay for accommodation etc?? If I deem my travel essential i go and that includes for head reasons if i need i go and will continue to.
Don't go blaming behaviour of a few. Thats crazy. Its a virus invisible. And the entire debate is ridiculous . Sweden were right. Slante

jamo2oo9 · 26-10-2020 3:01pm

You can see the effects of the coronavirus on Etihad in Abu Dhabi on google maps.

https://www.google.com/maps/@24.4389056,54.6600874,4404m/data=!3m1!1e3

Irish Steve · 26-10-2020 3:21pm

jamo2oo9 wrote: »

You can see the effects of the coronavirus on Etihad in Abu Dhabi on google maps.

https://www.google.com/maps/@24.4389056,54.6600874,4404m/data=!3m1!1e3

What are we supposed to be looking at? It's a page on google maps, with no explanation of what is different or changed on it.

ProfessorPlum · 26-10-2020 3:26pm

Looks like a lot of aircraft parked up /parked on taxiways.

Irish Steve · 26-10-2020 3:35pm

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Looks like a lot of aircraft parked up /parked on taxiways.

Aaah, OK, as linked, that's not obvious, it has to be zoomed in a number of times before that becomes clear.

Tenger · 26-10-2020 6:32pm

mikel97 wrote: »

Crazy Ideas. Its a Virus it doesn't care about who when and where. Its there everybody got to learn to live with it just like any other affliction. Air Travel isn't responsible nor are people travelling. Remember your government only make recommendations and Hse well its a joke, couple of old country women taking notes on the back of a fag packet won't do any good. Testing no point b4 departure, I've personally had quite a few on my travels, never had to wait more than 15 minutes for my negative results. Ireland 24-36 hour lol it a joke. And who will pay for accommodation etc?? If I deem my travel essential i go and that includes for head reasons if i need i go and will continue to.
Don't go blaming behaviour of a few. Thats crazy. Its a virus invisible. And the entire debate is ridiculous . Sweden were right. Slante

I wasn’t implying a long term closure of air travel. I was referring to a short term change to line up with the National level 5.
We will learn to live with this virus. I do believe it can be done but behaviours have to be changed. “People“ ARE responsible for the spread as the virus itself isn’t booking flights. It’s hitching a ride with “people” who then ignore health guidelines there for the greater good.

Regarding airport testing, there is a difference between the fast tests and the PCR-RT tests which take longer to get a result. The 24-36 hour wait time in Ireland is based on our lab capacity.
As for costs, well obviously I would assume State covering the testing and overnight accommodation.

As for “Sweden”, well that attempt at a Mike drop displays your uninformed opinion. 58 deaths per 1000 compared to 38/1000 in Ireland.

Tenzor07 · 26-10-2020 9:32pm

Tenger wrote: »

I wasn’t implying a long term closure of air travel. I was referring to a short term change to line up with the National level 5.We will learn to live with this virus. I do believe it can be done but behaviours have to be changed. “People“ ARE responsible for the spread as the virus itself isn’t booking flights. It’s hitching a ride with “people” who then ignore health guidelines there for the greater good.
Regarding airport testing, there is a difference between the fast tests and the PCR-RT tests which take longer to get a result. The 24-36 hour wait time in Ireland is based on our lab capacity.
As for costs, well obviously I would assume State covering the testing and overnight accommodation.

The new 12 minute test for asymptomatic people from Lumiradx could be rolled out if the price can be brought down to €5 or €10, that would get things rolling at pre-departure for passengers... Random swab testing upon arrival could be done with advice to limit contacts for 24hrs pending results..

There's always stories of my brothers mates cousins aunty on Whatsapp who sez they're not wearing masks on d planes.. and then extract an assumption out of your hat that they probably won't isolate either, without having the facts to back up the claims that will trace cases back to all these people mentioned... not saying cases aren't coming from people who act irresponsibly however it can happen in any situation where people are in contact with each other.. we can't all stay at home under the bed until an effective vaccine comes along.

billy few mates · 26-10-2020 11:28pm

mikel97 wrote: »

If I deem my travel essential i go and that includes for head reasons if i need i go and will continue to.
Don't go blaming behaviour of a few.

You work away there and enjoy your travels, the advice clearly isn't aimed at you, it's aimed at those of us who are trying to avoid you...

MrMusician18 · 26-10-2020 11:35pm

Tenger wrote: »

I wasn’t implying a long term closure of air travel. I was referring to a short term change to line up with the National level 5.
We will learn to live with this virus. I do believe it can be done but behaviours have to be changed. “People“ ARE responsible for the spread as the virus itself isn’t booking flights. It’s hitching a ride with “people” who then ignore health guidelines there for the greater good.

Regarding airport testing, there is a difference between the fast tests and the PCR-RT tests which take longer to get a result. The 24-36 hour wait time in Ireland is based on our lab capacity.
As for costs, well obviously I would assume State covering the testing and overnight accommodation.

As for “Sweden”, well that attempt at a Mike drop displays your uninformed opinion. 58 deaths per 1000 compared to 38/1000 in Ireland.

Why would the state cover the costs of the tests and accommodation when the vast vast majority, (we are talking in excess of 98%) of travel is discretionary?

The individual that's travelling should pay for any test or quarantine.

HTCOne · 27-10-2020 12:02am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Why would the state cover the costs of the tests and accommodation when the vast vast majority, (we are talking in excess of 98%) of travel is discretionary?

The individual that's travelling should pay for any test or quarantine.

Because anything that makes it easier for discretionary travel to occur will pay for itself. How much more than the cost of the test itself will be made back in taxation on what these people spend their money on? Food, accommodation etc? Then there's the fact that if you get enough people travelling inwards again, there's less people in the transport and hospitality industries on the PUP, thus saving the government more money. This is why other countries heavily reliant on tourism (eg Iceland) are covering the cost. It more than pays for itself.

And that's before getting into the benefits of finding positive cases before they have an opportunity to spread the virus. It really is a no brainer.

MrMusician18 · 27-10-2020 1:29am

HTCOne wrote: »

Because anything that makes it easier for discretionary travel to occur will pay for itself. How much more than the cost of the test itself will be made back in taxation on what these people spend their money on? Food, accommodation etc? Then there's the fact that if you get enough people travelling inwards again, there's less people in the transport and hospitality industries on the PUP, thus saving the government more money. This is why other countries heavily reliant on tourism (eg Iceland) are covering the cost. It more than pays for itself.

And that's before getting into the benefits of finding positive cases before they have an opportunity to spread the virus. It really is a no brainer.

Our country isn't Iceland and isn't as heavily reliant on tourism. In 2019 Outbound tourists took about €7.5bn out of the Irish economy, while inbound tourists brought €5.5bn in (rises to about €7.5bn when you include fares to domestic carriers). Inbound tourism is not happening because the things that bring people to Ireland like the tourist sites, pubs and restaurants are closed - and they will need to remain closed while covid is out of control in the community. So the state offering free testing and quarantine for travellers will only encourage money to be exported as the only people that would use this system will be Irish residents leaving on holiday and returning.

It's a non workable, expensive idea that has no real upside for the domestic tourism industry.

Lifelike · 27-10-2020 2:05am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Our country isn't Iceland and isn't as heavily reliant on tourism. In 2019 Outbound tourists took about €7.5bn out of the Irish economy, while inbound tourists brought €5.5bn in (rises to about €7.5bn when you include fares to domestic carriers). Inbound tourism is not happening because the things that bring people to Ireland like the tourist sites, pubs and restaurants are closed - and they will need to remain closed while covid is out of control in the community. So the state offering free testing and quarantine for travellers will only encourage money to be exported as the only people that would use this system will be Irish residents leaving on holiday and returning.

It's a non workable, expensive idea that has no real upside for the domestic tourism industry.

It’s not just the tourism industry that this would help to save, but also our aviation industry, which as an island the importance to our wider economy cannot be understated. Don’t also forget our travel agencies, without some kind of assistance the whole industry in Ireland will collapse in 2021.

I’m also not sure if I agree with your point either about Ireland being unattractive to foreigners, I would think that everyone’s aim is to get the pubs, restaurants and tourist sites reopened shortly. We also can’t forget our own natural scenery as an attraction either.

Maybe we should have a compromise and go for subsidised rather than free tests? Say €30 each? Would probably cover a significant chunk of the cost but probably wouldn’t be high enough to deter travel for those who really want to travel.

MrMusician18 · 27-10-2020 2:41am

Lifelike wrote: »

It’s not just the tourism industry that this would help to save, but also our aviation industry, which as an island the importance to our wider economy cannot be understated. Don’t also forget our travel agencies, without some kind of assistance the whole industry in Ireland will collapse in 2021.

I’m also not sure if I agree with your point either about Ireland being unattractive to foreigners, I would think that everyone’s aim is to get the pubs, restaurants and tourist sites reopened shortly. We also can’t forget our own natural scenery as an attraction either.

Maybe we should have a compromise and go for subsidised rather than free tests? Say €30 each? Would probably cover a significant chunk of the cost but probably wouldn’t be high enough to deter travel for those who really want to travel.

I'm not sure that's true anymore or at least a given. So far, government tax receipts have held up quite well in the absence of normal international travel. In a world that's adjusted to zoom, connectivity may not be as important as it was. This points back to my earlier post about the long term changes that this crisis could cause.

PCR tests cost the government between €150-€200 per test.

HTCOne · 27-10-2020 2:55am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Our country isn't Iceland and isn't as heavily reliant on tourism. In 2019 Outbound tourists took about €7.5bn out of the Irish economy, while inbound tourists brought €5.5bn in (rises to about €7.5bn when you include fares to domestic carriers). Inbound tourism is not happening because the things that bring people to Ireland like the tourist sites, pubs and restaurants are closed - and they will need to remain closed while covid is out of control in the community. So the state offering free testing and quarantine for travellers will only encourage money to be exported as the only people that would use this system will be Irish residents leaving on holiday and returning.

It's a non workable, expensive idea that has no real upside for the domestic tourism industry.

You've completely ignored the cumulative financial effect of getting more people off the PUP, getting more VAT and reducing the costs on our health service and contact tracers by identifying positive COVID tests at source. Not to mention the health benefits from testing folks at the airports themselves.

The WHO and ECDC are unequivocal, restricting travel when community transmission is occurring is pointless. They also are unequivocal in stating testing on as large a scale as possible, wherever you can do it is essential. Finding positive cases anywhere in any situation pays for itself, not just financially, but socially too. There are people travelling for genuinely essential reasons, if we can identify positive cases there, especially the asymptomatic ones, then the system pays for itself.

Noxegon · 27-10-2020 7:34am

MrMusician18 wrote: »

PCR tests cost the government between €150-€200 per test.

I did a PCR test in Hamburg Airport last month for €59.

It was done by Centogene/Dr Bauer Labs.

MrMusician18 · 27-10-2020 7:51am

HTCOne wrote: »

You've completely ignored the cumulative financial effect of getting more people off the PUP, getting more VAT and reducing the costs on our health service and contact tracers by identifying positive COVID tests at source. Not to mention the health benefits from testing folks at the airports themselves.

The WHO and ECDC are unequivocal, restricting travel when community transmission is occurring is pointless. They also are unequivocal in stating testing on as large a scale as possible, wherever you can do it is essential. Finding positive cases anywhere in any situation pays for itself, not just financially, but socially too. There are people travelling for genuinely essential reasons, if we can identify positive cases there, especially the asymptomatic ones, then the system pays for itself.

Ok, let's do a thought experiment. Say we follow your advice, let's offer tests to tourists on arrival.
You'll have answers for where we are good to find testing capacity when the system we have is at breaking point.
You'll also be able to tell me what tourists are going to be able to do with all amenities closed, which they will need to remain until we get community transmission under control again.

Even if we park the testing idea until we are back at level 2 or 3 and demand on testing falls, what do we say to tourists that have booked if we need to prioritise testing in our community again? Do we just let them in? Do we continue having our government spend €2m per day to facilitate Irish people travelling abroad. The reality is that outbound tourism is going to recover faster than inbound tourism. A testing regime that facilitates international travel well be effectively a subsidy for other countries tourism sectors at the direct expense of our own as it will mean Irish people will holiday abroad over spending in the domestic economy. As I said in normal times, just slightly more money, a trickle, leaves Ireland through tourism than comes in. Testing to facilitate tourists would turn this into a torrent.

If there is a testing regime set up for tourists, it's vital that tourists pay for it themselves. Each individual would need to be spending well over €5000 for the state to break even on their tests (only a quarter or so of vat actually remains with the Irish exchequer - the lions share funds the EU). It just doesn't make sense, financially or practically.

PommieBast · 27-10-2020 11:39am

Noxegon wrote: »

I did a PCR test in Hamburg Airport last month for €59.

It was done by Centogene/Dr Bauer Labs.

Any idea if it is subsidised?

Heard noises that the option of having tests rather than having to quarantine is why German companies have been winning contracts at the expense of other countries. Will try to find a reference.

Hotblack Desiato · 27-10-2020 12:01pm

smurfjed wrote: »

Saudi Arabia

Presently about 400 cases a day for around the last 3 weeks, masks and social distance required with a non-compliance fine. Have operated domestic since July and about 40 international destinations. PCR test required for inbound travel, 4 COVID APPS in use. Tests available within 24 hours, results within 12. Society opened.

What about pubs

LiamaDelta · 27-10-2020 12:19pm

Isn't all this focus on airport testing is ignoring the fact that if a country or city has widespread transmission of the virus in the community then people won't go there, no matter how 'safe' it is to travel on planes. Personally the plane journey is the least of my worries, but I'm not going to go to a city with no bars and restaurants open. People have rightly pointed out how great Germany was for introducing airport testing in some airports etc. but we are still seeing the growth of the virus throughout the country, which is looking like it will lead to more restrictions being necessary.

27-10-2020 12:27pm

LiamaDelta wrote: »

Isn't all this focus on airport testing is ignoring the fact that if a country or city has widespread transmission of the virus in the community then people won't go there, no matter how 'safe' it is to travel on planes. Personally the plane journey is the least of my worries, but I'm not going to go to a city with no bars and restaurants open. People have rightly pointed out how great Germany was for introducing airport testing in some airports etc. but we are still seeing the growth of the virus throughout the country, which is looking like it will lead to more restrictions being necessary.

And the Aviation and Tourism industries should be destroyed because the Government can't roll out adequate testing across the Country in addition in to the airports as well as provisioning enough ICU spaces so that if there is a spike in people needing treatment they don't die. Testing isn't as expensive as it once was. Germany at the end of last week had 8000 ICU beds free.
When your health system isn't at capacity you can afford to be freer in your decisions. The Government could have pleaded there wasn't enough ICU units 7 months ago. That excuse doesn't wash now and the Aviation industry is on its knees.
I'm seeing reports about Austria spinning up its socially distanced winter ski tourism industry on the news. If Irish Government were in charge of the Austrian Alps they'd be locked tight and to hell with the people who depend on the income from Tourists.

mikel97 · 27-10-2020 2:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If Irish Government were in charge of the Austrian Alps they'd be locked tight and to hell with the people who depend on the income from Tourists.

Correct. The only thing the Irish government has flattened is your economy.

mikel97 · 27-10-2020 2:26pm

Tenger wrote: »

As for “Sweden”, well that attempt at a Mike drop displays your uninformed opinion. 58 deaths per 1000 compared to 38/1000 in Ireland.

Im very well informed but from official sources not Rte dosh Ie.

So what about deaths, people die. But the management is important. Sweden in last 14 days have had a third of cases per 100K than the Ireland and in total Ireland has had 5 and half more deaths in 100K than Sweden. The figures speak for themselves No? Its my opinion and lots of my age groups 18-25.

mikel97 · 27-10-2020 2:29pm

billy few mates wrote: »

You work away there and enjoy your travels, the advice clearly isn't aimed at you, it's aimed at those of us who are trying to avoid you...

I don't work for now as Ireland has destroyed my Airline Job but at least collect PUP in the Bank and have moved home. Yes Im glad to be careful and wouldn't want you breathing near me tbh. Educate Mitigate and Protect yourself like me and my peers but Im not locking myself away frightened of the rubbish Irish media dramas. Travel broaden your horizon

mikel97 · 27-10-2020 2:32pm

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Why would the state cover the costs of the tests and accommodation when the vast vast majority, (we are talking in excess of 98%) of travel is discretionary?

The individual that's travelling should pay for any test or quarantine.

I agree. Have had 10 tests since March on my travels not paid for any. Very reassuring while Irish cant get there act together and introduce the same as most EU countries do. Joke

cson · 27-10-2020 2:51pm

I think the lockdowns are misguided, but I don't think opening up for tourism is the panacea that folks think it is - over here in the US there are plenty of traditional tourist destinations with no mandatory quarantine (Florida being a big one), yet TSA numbers continue to be 80-85% down YoY. Even if you open up, I don't think a majority of people are going to travel either way.

The Government (indeed Governments worldwide), need to ensure that companies and folks disproportionately affected by COVID lockdowns/restrictions are taken care of sufficient to see them out the other side. There will be major pain at the other end in terms of spinning up capacity once we get to the other side of this otherwise.

Locker10a · 27-10-2020 4:37pm

cson wrote: »

I think the lockdowns are misguided, but I don't think opening up for tourism is the panacea that folks think it is - over here in the US there are plenty of traditional tourist destinations with no mandatory quarantine (Florida being a big one), yet TSA numbers continue to be 80-85% down YoY. Even if you open up, I don't think a majority of people are going to travel either way.

The Government (indeed Governments worldwide), need to ensure that companies and folks disproportionately affected by COVID lockdowns/restrictions are taken care of sufficient to see them out the other side. There will be major pain at the other end in terms of spinning up capacity once we get to the other side of this otherwise.

THIS!! I think there’s a few folk here who are angry and frustrated, and I totally understand why, people are watching their careers/livelihoods going up in smoke, I’m feel desperately sorry for those people, but frankly, even if governments implemented some of the various ideas, I fee there still wouldn’t be demand and aviation would still be in dire straits. Sadly.
We can only hope for a bounce back later next year

paddy19 · 27-10-2020 10:44pm

I think Aviation folks and all of us who love to travel need to take a serious look at this new study (see attached). If it goes unchallenged it will make travel even more difficult then it is now. There are virtually no studies that show Covid transmission on flights but this one could be become accepted as gospel unless it gets seriously reviewed.

I think the conclusions are seriously overstated.

There are four groups. Groups 1 and 2 were in social contact preflight. Two people from Group 1 showed symptoms within 48 hours of the flight. 48 hours is an extremely short incubation period. The two groups were not in close proximity during the flight.

Yet the study concludes that:

"The incubation period forCOVID-19 may be as short as 2 days,
so the potential for in-flight/airport transmission exists in this outbreak [4,5].
In-flight transmission is a plausible exposure for cases in Group 1 and Group 2
given seating arrangements and onset dates."

Potential and plausible are two very different propositions!

The summary is as follow:

"An outbreak of 59 cases of coronavirus disease (COVID-19) originated with 13 cases linked by a 7 h, 17% occupancy flight into Ireland, summer 2020. The flight-associated attack rate was 9.8–17.8%. Spread to 46 non-flight cases occurred country-wide. Asymptomatic/pre-symptomatic transmission in-flight from a point source is implicated by 99% homology across the virus genome in five cases travelling from three different continents. Restriction of movement on arrival and robust contact tracing can limit propagation post-flight."

lintdrummer · 27-10-2020 11:34pm

https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/422400-easy-affordable-ultra-rapid-testing-for-covid-19

Could the airlines/airport authorities buy rapid tests like these and provide a free test to all arriving passengers? It will be €1 per test so could be funded through fares with no noticeable increase to the passenger. Result in a matter of minutes.
Very little training required to use and it's not like the airlines/airport authorities don't have the spare manpower at the moment.
Would be a step in the right direction to rebuild confidence in travel.

Gael23 · 27-10-2020 11:37pm

Given that a vaccine won’t stop infection illustrates just how utterly fcuked the travel industry is.
The EU travel restrictions are based on case numbers which a vaccine won’t reduce

Credit Checker Moose · 27-10-2020 11:39pm

lintdrummer wrote: »

https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/422400-easy-affordable-ultra-rapid-testing-for-covid-19

Could the airlines/airport authorities buy rapid tests like these and provide a free test to all arriving passengers? It will be €1 per test so could be funded through fares with no noticeable increase to the passenger. Result in a matter of minutes.
Very little training required to use and it's not like the airlines/airport authorities don't have the spare manpower at the moment.
Would be a step in the right direction to rebuild confidence in travel.

That doesn't suit the government narrative.

Tenzor07 · 28-10-2020 10:10am

Gael23 wrote: »

Given that a vaccine won’t stop infection illustrates just how utterly fcuked the travel industry is.
The EU travel restrictions are based on case numbers which a vaccine won’t reduce

Which is why basing restrictions on case numbers is utterly ridiculous, and if Governments plan to restart the EU economy they'll have to change to something like hospital/ICU admission numbers... otherwise countries will stay as "Red zones" for years to come...

Covid-19; Impact on the aviation industry

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